Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I probably joined 3 weeks ago and I am not sure when you even joined. I want you to know I do hope you find the peace and comfort you are seeking and I hope this place does become part of your healing process. New beginnings...new journey....new light....Welcome. Personally I am sorry this happened to you, because I hear your disappointment. However in returning I see you are finding your voice and expressing your feelings...and this is just the place to do that. Many blessings, Malinda > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. kylaboo728 wrote: New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. kylaboo728 wrote: New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I have only been on for a couple of weeks. We answere to the ppl. whom resonate with us. Lilly White wrote: I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. kylaboo728 wrote: New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I have only been on for a couple of weeks. We answere to the ppl. whom resonate with us. Lilly White wrote: I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. kylaboo728 wrote: New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 not to be rude, but your hostile attitude will turn a lot of people off. We get hostility so much in out lives from our BP parent/family members, we don't want to deal with it on our lists too. No one ignored you on purpose, and if no one responded , then you should repost, or rewrite and start a new thread. Jackie I joined over a month ago, and being a medical professional I responded to some very incorrect medical quotes. I was responded to with a very rude answer. Otherwise no one has even responded to my input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Well, I'm sorry you feel rejected. The Yahoo groups format isn't always the easiest to keep up with. Like others said, it's easy to miss someone's posts, and sometimes we only have time to post to those posts that resonate with us. You're definitely not going to make any friends by telling us we have no life. I am a member of multiple online communities, and post to them regularly. I still have time for a fruitful adult life and full time job. It's not healthy to respond to your own feelings of hurt by attacking others. Missing your first thread was not a malicious act on our part, yet you have taken it that way. And now it seems you've decided to write us off as bad people as a means of self-protection. I guess I should get off my psych soapbox. No hard feelings, , I hope you change your mind about this board and decide to contribute in a positive manner. - > I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. > > I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Well first of all, let me just formally welcome you to the group. Welcome, welcome. I have no idea what happened to you post hun....I did a search for it at the group site and couldn't find it....yahoo has been having ALOT of problems lately...it could be that your intro. is just stuck in space somewhere...but that is neither here nor there...the bottom line is that your feelings were hurt and for that I do apologize. I can just imagine how you felt...you came here for a reason and not only did it not make you feel better...it made you feel worse! Who needs that, right? So if I may, I'd like to try this again. Welcome to the group. As you have noticed we can be somewhat of a cohesive group....not all of us post...sometimes I personally feel like i post too much and tend to hijack the thread. (Not intentionally) Not all of us are at the same point in the road to healing...and we all heal different ways. There are terms that are posted at the site that we use....terms like nada, fada, hoovering and KO...not all of us feel comfortable using those terms...which is fine...we respect each other's boundries. You mentioned that you have read SWOE...so i'm not going to patronize you and explain things to you like you are a little kid...fact of the matter is i'm sure i haven't said anything you don't already know. All I ask of you is to exercise a little patience with us. I totally understand that you were just being honest and I appreciate the opportunity to explain my side of it anyway. I just want you to understand that while you were hurt, a sharply worded post such as yours making us feel guilty for not responding to you may not get the response you desire. Guilt is a really big flea for a lot of us and this group is understood to be a safe zone.....a FOG free zone if you will. That being said, if, upon reading our posts you don't feel connected in any way then maybe this isn't the group for you....and there isn't anything wrong with that. Personally, I'd like to get to know you....however, none of us here want any of the members here to feel WORSE. I can totally see your point though...why did other new member's get a response and not you...i'd probably take that personally too. But as you pointed out, yes...some of us have been around for a while....we have had to opportunity to get to know each other...sometimes I even forget that my response is going to the entire group...so my posts will sound like a personal e-mail. If you feel comfortable with the group i'd love to just move on if we can...how about you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you here...what kind of things are you looking for? How did you find out about BPD? We obviously missed out on your original post...personally i'd love to know what we missed. If it was important enough for you to take the time to share than it is important enough for us to take the time to listen. We're here for you when you are ready. White wrote: I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. kylaboo728 wrote: New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Well first of all, let me just formally welcome you to the group. Welcome, welcome. I have no idea what happened to you post hun....I did a search for it at the group site and couldn't find it....yahoo has been having ALOT of problems lately...it could be that your intro. is just stuck in space somewhere...but that is neither here nor there...the bottom line is that your feelings were hurt and for that I do apologize. I can just imagine how you felt...you came here for a reason and not only did it not make you feel better...it made you feel worse! Who needs that, right? So if I may, I'd like to try this again. Welcome to the group. As you have noticed we can be somewhat of a cohesive group....not all of us post...sometimes I personally feel like i post too much and tend to hijack the thread. (Not intentionally) Not all of us are at the same point in the road to healing...and we all heal different ways. There are terms that are posted at the site that we use....terms like nada, fada, hoovering and KO...not all of us feel comfortable using those terms...which is fine...we respect each other's boundries. You mentioned that you have read SWOE...so i'm not going to patronize you and explain things to you like you are a little kid...fact of the matter is i'm sure i haven't said anything you don't already know. All I ask of you is to exercise a little patience with us. I totally understand that you were just being honest and I appreciate the opportunity to explain my side of it anyway. I just want you to understand that while you were hurt, a sharply worded post such as yours making us feel guilty for not responding to you may not get the response you desire. Guilt is a really big flea for a lot of us and this group is understood to be a safe zone.....a FOG free zone if you will. That being said, if, upon reading our posts you don't feel connected in any way then maybe this isn't the group for you....and there isn't anything wrong with that. Personally, I'd like to get to know you....however, none of us here want any of the members here to feel WORSE. I can totally see your point though...why did other new member's get a response and not you...i'd probably take that personally too. But as you pointed out, yes...some of us have been around for a while....we have had to opportunity to get to know each other...sometimes I even forget that my response is going to the entire group...so my posts will sound like a personal e-mail. If you feel comfortable with the group i'd love to just move on if we can...how about you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you here...what kind of things are you looking for? How did you find out about BPD? We obviously missed out on your original post...personally i'd love to know what we missed. If it was important enough for you to take the time to share than it is important enough for us to take the time to listen. We're here for you when you are ready. White wrote: I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. kylaboo728 wrote: New people join all the time -- did you start a new thread? or was it tagged onto an existing one? Those can be missed -- or people can think they already responded. If you stick around, you'll find you can't respond to every one either. There are lots of reasons why a newbie " hello " might be missed. Sorry that happened, but you could also have given us the benefit of the doubt. I recall another new person who was " missed " by the group and simply repeated her introduction and mentioned that no one had responded. It's happened before. We all have lives to tend to, and people come in and out -- sometimes not checking back in for weeks. It's not like there's a big consipiracy against you. I respond to several posts, but there are others I have to leave behind because there just isn't time. It's just not possible to answer every posting. You don't have to take it as if we're a cohesive group who rejected you -- we're from all over the place, and everyone checks in at different times. We're not " organized " -- it's a very haphazard group dynamic. -Kyla > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to introduce > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of other > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my father > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose work > > > that > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving Mother > > > as > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' and > > > my > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > characters > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > experiences > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some of > > > them > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted by > > > 3 > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > least > > > 8 > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > realized > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to form > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > things, > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, but > > > how > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > unfair > > > to > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > myself > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > who > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's not > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > still > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I can't > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father thinks > > > I'm > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > doesn't > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making the > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > splintered > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no relationship > > > with > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong, > > > so I > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't want > > > them > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a nut). > > Am > > > I > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if there > > > is a > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 These remind me of my father's faultfinding e-mails. I'm taking myself out of answering any more. -Kyla > > > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to > introduce > > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of > other > > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my > father > > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose > work > > > > that > > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving > Mother > > > > as > > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' > and > > > > my > > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > > characters > > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > > experiences > > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some > of > > > > them > > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted > by > > > > 3 > > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > > least > > > > 8 > > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > > realized > > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to > form > > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > > things, > > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, > but > > > > how > > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > > unfair > > > > to > > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > > myself > > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > > who > > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's > not > > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > > still > > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I > can't > > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father > thinks > > > > I'm > > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > > doesn't > > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making > the > > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > > splintered > > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no > relationship > > > > with > > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is > wrong, > > > > so I > > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't > want > > > > them > > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a > nut). > > > Am > > > > I > > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if > there > > > > is a > > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 These remind me of my father's faultfinding e-mails. I'm taking myself out of answering any more. -Kyla > > > > > > > > > > Hello- > > > > > > > > > > I just found this group, and I guess I just wanted to > introduce > > > > > myself. I'm 27. My mother has BPD (and probably a host of > other > > > > > things.) She was only recently diagnosed. Growing up, my > father > > > > > refused to see that there was a problem, and instead chose > work > > > > that > > > > > would keep him away from home for weeks at a time, leaving > Mother > > > > as > > > > > our primary care-giver. > > > > > > > > > > About a year ago we found out that she had taken my sisters' > and > > > > my > > > > > photographs and life histories and used them to fashion > > > characters > > > > > she then acted out online. She used our best and worst > > > > experiences > > > > > as material to attract strangers over the internet, and then > > > > > continued to have phone/online relationships with them, some > of > > > > them > > > > > for as long as 7 years. At this point, we have been contacted > by > > > > 3 > > > > > of these men, and she has finally admitted that there are at > > > least > > > > 8 > > > > > more out there. > > > > > > > > > > I've been in counseling for about a month now, because I've > > > > realized > > > > > that my trust issues and fears are affecting my ability to > form > > > > > relationships, and I refuse to let her hurt me any more. > > > > > > > > > > My question for you all is- > > > > > > > > > > How do I move on? I'm supposed to be allowing myself to feel > > > > things, > > > > > to be upset about everything that happened to me growing up, > but > > > > how > > > > > do I do that and still live a normal life? I know that it's > > > unfair > > > > to > > > > > put my issues onto new people, but I don't know how to keep > > > myself > > > > > from pulling away. > > > > > > > > > > I'm also having trouble because I am the only one in my family > > > who > > > > > refuses to allow her to be a part of my life anymore. She's > not > > > > > getting help, and I have no reason to believe that she's not > > > still > > > > > making up stories and endangering myself and my sisters. I > can't > > > > > have her in my life while she's like this, but my father > thinks > > > > I'm > > > > > being selfish for not trying to help her get better. He just > > > > doesn't > > > > > see that I need to help myself first. I feel like I'm making > the > > > > > right decision there, but at the same time, it's sort of > > > > splintered > > > > > my family, to the point where I essentially have no > relationship > > > > with > > > > > either of my parents. I refuse to pretend that nothing is > wrong, > > > > so I > > > > > can't contact my extended family either. (My father doesn't > want > > > > them > > > > > to know that he and Mother are separated, or that she's a > nut). > > > Am > > > > I > > > > > just being stubborn and selfish? I'm starting to wonder if > there > > > > is a > > > > > right thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Just a little fyi, I was contributing in a " positive manner " to several people. They didn't even bother to respond to me. And........ I wasn't telling anyone they didn't have a life. I was letting you know that NO ONE even acknowledged my existence. I realize we all have our own set of issues, but are some to be ignored?? econ2econ wrote: Well, I'm sorry you feel rejected. The Yahoo groups format isn't always the easiest to keep up with. Like others said, it's easy to miss someone's posts, and sometimes we only have time to post to those posts that resonate with us. You're definitely not going to make any friends by telling us we have no life. I am a member of multiple online communities, and post to them regularly. I still have time for a fruitful adult life and full time job. It's not healthy to respond to your own feelings of hurt by attacking others. Missing your first thread was not a malicious act on our part, yet you have taken it that way. And now it seems you've decided to write us off as bad people as a means of self-protection. I guess I should get off my psych soapbox. No hard feelings, , I hope you change your mind about this board and decide to contribute in a positive manner. - > I am not sure how I joined, I know that I clicked on the link at the bottom of the page, and I entered all my info on a page off the web site. I didn't expect everyone to answer me, but I didn't get ANY responses. > > I also have a life, and have wondered how some of the people involved in this have time for anything else the way they answer some people. Some people are involved in everyone who seems to have been around for a while. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.