Re: Anger and the need to control

[Guest guest]

Anne, I do disagree with these assumptions for the most part. It is true that stress increases our negative response to triggers as it affects everything else in our lives. However, my experience is that my misophonia triggers have ruined some of the happiest moments of my life, causing me to either hold in the feeling that I would explode if I didn't react, or causing me to leave the situation.

The testing situation is especially difficult for misophonics because it is so quiet that you can hear the pencils scratching much more easily. Yes, it's stressful, and knowing that you can't leave the room, and you can't concentrate like you want to increases that stress. But the stress is not the cause of the anger - the trigger sounds are.

If your son was talking and laughing in the car, he may not have heard the trigger sounds as much as if it had been a quiet, serious ride with nothing going on but snacking sounds.

Missy in Nashville

I recently read the following statement about anger: "We are rarely angry for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a need/desire to control a person or situation. I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing to do with his ears. My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation – the questions on the test – the time he has left to finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he will feel better. This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son. Thanks!Anne

[Guest guest]

I'd have to agree with Anne. Too many of us in the group have the same triggers,

so I doubt our anger is due to control issues.

My understanding of anger is that it stems from fear and/or pain. The negative

response to sounds that we are experiencing is actually " fight or flight " , hence

anger (thanks to the brain's amygdala which we can't control).

http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/Amygdala.htm

Sensory responses have so many variables and are so unpredictable that you never

know when your son's going to have a really bad day, especially when he's away

from home.

Perhaps you can find an Occupational Therapist who specializes in sensory

therapy. If there's not one available in your area, Neuropyschologists perform

similar tests as the OT's. I'm not sure what kind of treatment a neuro doc would

offer, but at least you'd have a diagnosis.

I hope you can be patient with and supportive of your son. I came from a family

who wasn't and it took lots of " couch " time to work it out.

Helpful reading on this subject: " Too Loud, Too Bright, Too Fast, Too Tight " by

Sharon Heller (Amazon.com).

Best wishes,

Colleen

I should clarify that any information I submit via this forum is gleaned from my

own experience, learned from professionals who work in this field, from many

therapies I've undertaken, and from reading about Sensory Processing Disorder

and related disorders.

>

> Anne, I do disagree with these assumptions for the most part. It is true

> that stress increases our negative response to triggers as it affects

> everything else in our lives. However, my experience is that my misophonia

> triggers have ruined some of the happiest moments of my life, causing me to

> either hold in the feeling that I would explode if I didn't react, or causing

> me to leave the situation.

>

> The testing situation is especially difficult for misophonics because it is

> so quiet that you can hear the pencils scratching much more easily. Yes,

> it's stressful, and knowing that you can't leave the room, and you can't

> concentrate like you want to increases that stress. But the stress is not

> the cause of the anger - the trigger sounds are.

>

> If your son was talking and laughing in the car, he may not have heard the

> trigger sounds as much as if it had been a quiet, serious ride with nothing

> going on but snacking sounds.

>

> Missy in Nashville

>

>

> In a message dated 6/14/2012 1:41:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> annebeckerart@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely angry

> for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by

> various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but

about

> a need/desire to control a person or situation.

>

> I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that

> there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including

> anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

>

> I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently

> suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem

had

> nothing to do with his ears.

>

> My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are

> going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and

> having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired

> misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car

are

> difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer

tournament

> a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a

> problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that

> he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to

> the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.

>

> Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the

> pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying

> to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over

> the situation †" the questions on the test †" the time he has left to

> finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements

going

> on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he

> can control those things, he will feel better.

>

> This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so

> varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people

that

> cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is

> really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then

maybe

> we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

>

> Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing

> all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Anne

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

Interesting.

I wonder if, for those of us with misophonia, the very first time a particular

sound or behavior causes anger, it is in a situation in which we feel powerless.

But the strong reaction to the sound or behavior becomes cemented in our brains,

and when we experience it again, we react strongly to it regardless of whether

we're feeling happy or stressed.

I know that certain styles of guitar playing, which I used to enjoy, now cause

me great anger. Perhaps I made the mistake of listening to the guitar-playing on

a day when I felt powerless, and now it bothers me every time I listen to it,

even when I'm feeling good and in the mood for music.

________________________________

> To: Soundsensitivity

> From: annebeckerart@...

> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:40:51 +0000

> Subject: Anger and the need to control

>

>

>

> I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely

> angry for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger

> triggered by various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or

> the sound, but about a need/desire to control a person or situation.

>

> I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider

> that there are many different manifestations of the need to control,

> including anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

>

> I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently

> suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his

> problem had nothing to do with his ears.

>

> My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are

> going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up

> and having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or

> tired misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long

> periods in a car are difficult for him. But, when we were recently

> driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was so excited to

> be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose in

> the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE

> wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't

> need to control anything because he was content.

>

> Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the

> pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by

> trying to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of

> control over the situation – the questions on the test – the time he

> has left to finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the

> sounds and movements going on around him. His desire to control that is

> a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he will feel

> better.

>

> This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so

> varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to

> people that cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to

> identify what is really causing the anger and address that or learn to

> live with it, then maybe we could let the attachment to the sights and

> sounds go.

>

> Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am

> doing all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Anne

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorru diagree

--- Original Message ---

Sent: June 14, 2012 6/14/12

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Anger and the need to control

 

I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely angry for

the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various

sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a

need/desire to control a person or situation.

I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that there

are many different manifestations of the need to control, including anorexia,

agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested he

go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing to

do with his ears.

My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going his

way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a good

time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in. This

is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him. But,

when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was

so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose

in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE wanted

to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to control

anything because he was content.

Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils

scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a

good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation

– the questions on the test – the time he has left to finish, etc. This may

come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His

desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those

things, he will feel better.

This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied

from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause

the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing

the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the

attachment to the sights and sounds go.

Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I

can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

Thanks!

Anne

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree with you. As a very young child (maybe 9 or 10), I recall one trigger and probably the first of many more to come. We had cast iron water radiators in our home (water ran through them to heat the room). I could remember hearing the gurgling water sounds pass through the radiator. It was a torment to me. I couldn't fall aspleep and would thrash around in my bed, hoplessly covering my ears with my hands until I fell asleep from exhausting myself. I can't see any link with control here or with any of my other triggers. I think your son is less stressed when he's having a good time and somewhat distracted. I think that the triggers are somewhat heard louder or accentuated when we're stressed. I still don't know what actually makes me conscious of the triggerie;

what sets it off. I also had the pencil scratching during exams, the writing too loud with a pencil on a desk (without padding underneath) etc etc etc. I was not necessarily stressed during exams but something would 'trigger' the trigger and ugh, I'd hear IT!Can't give you an explanation but I don't think the need to control is the underlying cause. I do, however; feel that my stress is alleviated when I feel that I can take some control over the situation. That is, by leaving the situation or trying to find a way of coping with it (the trigger).Margaret To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:40:51 PM Subject: Anger and the need to control

I recently read the following statement about anger: "We are rarely angry for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a need/desire to control a person or situation.

I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing to do with his ears.

My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.

Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation – the questions on the test – the time he has left to finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he will feel better.

This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

Thanks!

Anne

[Guest guest]

Anne, you realize perhaps that in your stating this point of view, you are

saying in essence that misophonia/4S then, is a volitional condition wherein the

person has 'control' over their reactions and therefore CAN 'control' the

reactions.

This is the kind of thinking whereby we see those who might say, even helpfully,

well you know, stress brings on xyz therefore you CAUSED this xyz and thus, it

is YOUR fault/responsibility/burden, etc.

This is what was applied to psychology for centuries, i.e., Freudian thinking

about schizophrenia, frigid mothers make this happen. Well it turns out to be a

central brain chemistry defect.

Not the mothers, who were made to feel horrible.

I believe that we can exert control over the situation to some degree, and I

wonder if you have any idea as to how MUCH control your own 10 year old is

attempting to use on a constant exhausting basis, just to keep on as they say

truckin'?

If you want to really peek into the mind and heart of the miso/4S person, invite

them to share how much of the time they WANT to react.

Get a cuppa joe, it is gonna take a while to listen...

Rightly so.

Dr J

[Guest guest]

I think there is validity to what you say. I am a miso sufferer, and sometimes I

get SO mad at people for not realizing what a horrible sound they are making!! I

need to point it out to others and sometimes stare at the person with my mouth

agape.

I tend to be less bothered when I am less stressed. I had difficulty with pencil

sounds as well, but not just during tests. Also just regular classes taking

notes.

The other day I went to a movie with my kids and there was a popcorn crunching

cacophony all around me. I made a valiant effort to breathe deeply, focus on the

movie and ignore the crunching and smacking. After about 2 minutes I was in

tears. I felt I was being attacked by the sounds. I plugged my ears with my

fingers to block out the popcorn. I could still hear the movie, and I was fine

(except that my hands would fall asleep every so often).

It is very real. It's not just about control although I think control can play

into it.

Dorothy

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

I find the same thing with my 17 year old daughter. She reacts to me and her dad

but not when others are around and not to her friends. She says she experiences

misophonia with her friends, but she does not react at all. Why give the people

closest to you the dirty looks and nasty comments? I understand that kids feel

safe to be themselves with their parents, but why can they control their

outbursts with some people and not others? It is definitely worse when she is

tired or irritable to begin with. I still firmly believe tat this is much much

more than a hearing issue. It is a sensory issue complicated by emotions.

Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Dorothy,

Thanks for sharing. I believe it is very real because my son cries to me that

he feels so stupid for acting like he does. I know he cannot help it. When I

am suggesting it is about control, I mean on a very deep and subconscious

level. And, I wonder if it may have been a control mechanism at one point and

has turned into a learned response now.

I am very curious and want to know if what you are having in the movie theater

is a panic attack and you get very upset because you cannot leave. By panic

attack, I mean heart races, hands sweat or shake, breath is shallow and you want

to leave the situation. Fight or flight they also call it. Do you think

something bad will happen if you don't cover your ears?

I want to know if the sounds (and movements) are a like a phobia because I

notice that the mere thought of someone eating can make my son react. I have

had a couple of phobias in my lifetime that I have mostly gotten over and wonder

if it is similar. Phobias don't seem to make much sense, but if you have a

panic attack once in a particular situation (the phobia arises), it seems like

you are then programmed to react that way the next time you are faced with the

trigger. The thought of the situation can cause stress and the person will

involuntarily react the same way over and over when that situation occurs. It

is like programming of the mind. and we are so worried about losing control of

ourselves and panicking that we resist the situation very strongly. This only

makes it worse.

Let me know if it is the same or how it is different.

Anne

>

> I think there is validity to what you say. I am a miso sufferer, and sometimes

I get SO mad at people for not realizing what a horrible sound they are making!!

I need to point it out to others and sometimes stare at the person with my mouth

agape.

>

> I tend to be less bothered when I am less stressed. I had difficulty with

pencil sounds as well, but not just during tests. Also just regular classes

taking notes.

>

> The other day I went to a movie with my kids and there was a popcorn crunching

cacophony all around me. I made a valiant effort to breathe deeply, focus on the

movie and ignore the crunching and smacking. After about 2 minutes I was in

tears. I felt I was being attacked by the sounds. I plugged my ears with my

fingers to block out the popcorn. I could still hear the movie, and I was fine

(except that my hands would fall asleep every so often).

>

> It is very real. It's not just about control although I think control can play

into it.

>

> Dorothy

>

>

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding. I actually did not mean to imply it is voluntary. My

son feels terrible about his outbursts. I was considering that the anger could

arise from a subconscious desire to control a situation, that is then misplaced

onto the sounds and movements in a situation. That the person with misophonia

is upset for some reason, cannot figure out exactly why and begins focusing on

sounds and movements of people involved. They become angry at the wrong thing.

My mom suggested that it is about relationships because it is worse around those

who are closest. In some families it is only one person who triggers the

misophonia for a child.

That led me to consider if it had to do with control. I have two children (one

with miso) and it seems to play a role with sibling rivalry.

Anne

>

> Anne, you realize perhaps that in your stating this point of view, you are

saying in essence that misophonia/4S then, is a volitional condition wherein the

person has 'control' over their reactions and therefore CAN 'control' the

reactions.

>

> This is the kind of thinking whereby we see those who might say, even

helpfully, well you know, stress brings on xyz therefore you CAUSED this xyz and

thus, it is YOUR fault/responsibility/burden, etc.

>

> This is what was applied to psychology for centuries, i.e., Freudian thinking

about schizophrenia, frigid mothers make this happen. Well it turns out to be a

central brain chemistry defect.

>

> Not the mothers, who were made to feel horrible.

>

>

> I believe that we can exert control over the situation to some degree, and I

wonder if you have any idea as to how MUCH control your own 10 year old is

attempting to use on a constant exhausting basis, just to keep on as they say

truckin'?

>

> If you want to really peek into the mind and heart of the miso/4S person,

invite them to share how much of the time they WANT to react.

>

> Get a cuppa joe, it is gonna take a while to listen...

>

> Rightly so.

>

> Dr J

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I am a new member and I'd like to weigh in on this. I have had this problem since I was little, and I know well the hurt and resentment generated when people come to that conclusion. It's not a choice to feel these things when they happen. I've been told I was just trying to control people, I'm being ridiculous, petty, a drama queen, and so on. A person doesn't choose to feel this way. I wish I knew what caused this. I would love to be able to eat a meal with my boyfriend without involuntarily imitating when he makes a noise that triggers me ( I don't know I've done it until he points it out). I don't want to control anyone, and maybe your son doesn't either. I know I'm able to keep myself in check better when circumstances are happier, perhaps it's the same with

him? To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:35 PM Subject: RE: Anger and the need to control

Sorru diagree

--- Original Message ---

Sent: June 14, 2012 6/14/12

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Anger and the need to control

I recently read the following statement about anger: "We are rarely angry for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a need/desire to control a person or situation.

I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing to do with his ears.

My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.

Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation the questions on the test the time he has left to finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he will feel better.

This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

Thanks!

Anne

[Guest guest]

The reaction to sounds is visceral for me, not intellectual. The word "control" leads someone to think there is a conscious decision and brings along with it blame for the behavior. I would not have spent my life reacting to my mother's sniffing, horribly loud chewing/swallowing, and throat clearing, by conscious decision. My relationship with her was bad enough without throwing this into the mix.

To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Anger and the need to control

Hi I am a new member and I'd like to weigh in on this. I have had this problem since I was little, and I know well the hurt and resentment generated when people come to that conclusion. It's not a choice to feel these things when they happen. I've been told I was just trying to control people, I'm being ridiculous, petty, a drama queen, and so on. A person doesn't choose to feel this way. I wish I knew what caused this. I would love to be able to eat a meal with my boyfriend without involuntarily imitating when he makes a noise that triggers me ( I don't know I've done it until he points it out). I don't want to control anyone, and maybe your son doesn't either. I know I'm able to keep myself in check better when circumstances are happier, perhaps it's the same with

him? To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:35 PM Subject: RE: Anger and the need to control

Sorru diagree

--- Original Message ---

Sent: June 14, 2012 6/14/12

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Anger and the need to control

I recently read the following statement about anger: "We are rarely angry for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a need/desire to control a person or situation.

I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing to do with his ears.

My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.

Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation the questions on the test the time he has left to finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he will feel better.

This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

Thanks!

Anne

[Guest guest]

Some of the differences in my experience:

She can leave the theater. She has a choice of leaving the theater or putting her fingers in her ears to drown out the sounds. The sounds are the bad thing, and they are already happening and already causing the fight/flight feelings. What she wants to do is enjoy the movie, but her choices are to watch it with her fingers in her ears and her hands falling asleep (uncomfortable, but less uncomfortable than hearing the sounds) or leaving the theater and missing the movie. Either way is a less than desirable situation.

The bad thing that will happen if she doesn't cover her ears is that she'll hear the sounds and feel physical pain. If she were being held hostage in the theater and couldn't cover her ears to mute the sounds, than she might feel a panic attack due to lack of control of the situation, but what she feels when she initially hears the sounds is not a panic attack.

Missy in Nashville

Dorothy,Thanks for sharing. I believe it is very real because my son cries to me that he feels so stupid for acting like he does. I know he cannot help it. When I am suggesting it is about control, I mean on a very deep and subconscious level. And, I wonder if it may have been a control mechanism at one point and has turned into a learned response now.I am very curious and want to know if what you are having in the movie theater is a panic attack and you get very upset because you cannot leave. By panic attack, I mean heart races, hands sweat or shake, breath is shallow and you want to leave the situation. Fight or flight they also call it. Do you think something bad will happen if you don't cover your ears? I want to know if the sounds (and movements) are a like a phobia because I notice that the mere thought of someone eating can make my son react. I have had a couple of phobias in my lifetime that I have mostly gotten over and wonder if it is similar. Phobias don't seem to make much sense, but if you have a panic attack once in a particular situation (the phobia arises), it seems like you are then programmed to react that way the next time you are faced with the trigger. The thought of the situation can cause stress and the person will involuntarily react the same way over and over when that situation occurs. It is like programming of the mind. and we are so worried about losing control of ourselves and panicking that we resist the situation very strongly. This only makes it worse. Let me know if it is the same or how it is different.Anne

[Guest guest]

As a child, I thought that mimicking the sound was a way to respond that other people wouldn't notice and would save my sanity. I didn't realize then that other people did notice. Now I fight hard not to mimic the sounds because I know better. It's exhausting to not speak out or mimic or respond in some other way. When it gets to be too much, the only remedy is to leave the room where I can respond in private. I don't think that has anything to do with controlling anything or anyone. Sometimes the sounds are truly rude and obnoxious, and I do wish people would learn some manners, but other times the sounds are just normal sounds, and I can't blame other people for that.

Missy

Hi I am a new member and I'd like to weigh in on this. I have had this problem since I was little, and I know well the hurt and resentment generated when people come to that conclusion. It's not a choice to feel these things when they happen. I've been told I was just trying to control people, I'm being ridiculous, petty, a drama queen, and so on. A person doesn't choose to feel this way. I wish I knew what caused this. I would love to be able to eat a meal with my boyfriend without involuntarily imitating when he makes a noise that triggers me ( I don't know I've done it until he points it out). I don't want to control anyone, and maybe your son doesn't either. I know I'm able to keep myself in check better when circumstances are happier, perhaps it's the same with him?

[Guest guest]

I agree! My mother and I were best friends, and I wanted to spend time with her, but when her allergies were acting up it was miserable for me to be in the same room with her. She adjusted her way of chewing over the years and didn't smack as much, so that became less of a problem. Smacking, slurping, etc bothers me no matter who does it, and I react the same way to everyone, but I first noticed the triggers at home as a teen, and I would guess it's because that was where I ate the most.

The reaction to sounds is visceral for me, not intellectual. The word "control" leads someone to think there is a conscious decision and brings along with it blame for the behavior. I would not have spent my life reacting to my mother's sniffing, horribly loud chewing/swallowing, and throat clearing, by conscious decision. My relationship with her was bad enough without throwing this into the mix.

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your perspective. I understand your frustration and hope that you

understand the perspective of people on the other end. Living around someone

with misophonia is challenging. We really don't understand it and most of us

want to help our loved ones have a full and happy life. My questioning is out

of love and concern, not pointing fingers and blaming. If it is about control,

I am suggesting that it is on a very subconscious level. I believe all of the

feelings that go along with it are real. And, I will state for the record that

I feel very controlled by my son. This feeling is what leads me to this line

of questioning.

I find it interesting that you involuntarily imitate your boyfriend. My son has

done some imitating, but I think he's quite aware he's doing it.

All my best,

Anne

>

> Hi I am a new member and I'd like to weigh in on this. I have had this problem

since I was little, and I know well the hurt and resentment generated when

people come to that conclusion. It's not a choice to feel these things when they

happen. I've been told I was just trying to control people, I'm being

ridiculous, petty, a drama queen, and so on. A person doesn't choose to feel

this way. I wish I knew what caused this. I would love to be able to eat a meal

with my boyfriend without involuntarily imitating when he makes a noise that

triggers me ( I don't know I've done it until he points it out). I don't want to

control anyone, and maybe your son doesn't either. I know I'm able to keep

myself in check better when circumstances are happier, perhaps it's the same

with him?

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: Soundsensitivity

> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:35 PM

> Subject: RE: Anger and the need to control

>

>

>  

> Sorru diagree

>

> --- Original Message ---

>

>

> Sent: June 14, 2012 6/14/12

> To: Soundsensitivity

> Subject: Anger and the need to control

>

>  

>

> I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely angry for

the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various

sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a

need/desire to control a person or situation.

>

> I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that

there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including

anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

>

> I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested

he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing

to do with his ears.

>

> My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going

his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a

good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in.

This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him.

But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he

was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and

rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE

wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to

control anything because he was content.

>

> Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils

scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a

good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation

the questions on the test the time he has left to finish, etc. This may come

out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His desire

to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he

will feel better.

>

> This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied

from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause

the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing

the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the

attachment to the sights and sounds go.

>

> Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I

can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Anne

>

[Guest guest]

My son has suffered with Miso for 26 years,as we were told it was part of his Touretts.We now know what it really is.Believe me,its NOT control .My son has had a life of hell .He has put more holes in the walls than you could even know,from anger.He tells me to hear his fathers voice or his wife's,is like someone talking a nail and just scraping his ears with it.It truly is painful. But,now that he has a name for his suffering,he seems to be somewhat less stressed.I pray for ALL of these people,and Bless your son and your family....Subject: Re: Anger and the need to controlTo:

Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 6:14 PM

Thanks for responding. I actually did not mean to imply it is voluntary. My son feels terrible about his outbursts. I was considering that the anger could arise from a subconscious desire to control a situation, that is then misplaced onto the sounds and movements in a situation. That the person with misophonia is upset for some reason, cannot figure out exactly why and begins focusing on sounds and movements of people involved. They become angry at the wrong thing. My mom suggested that it is about relationships because it is worse around those who are closest. In some families it is only one person who triggers the misophonia for a child.

That led me to consider if it had to do with control. I have two children (one with miso) and it seems to play a role with sibling rivalry.

Anne

>

> Anne, you realize perhaps that in your stating this point of view, you are saying in essence that misophonia/4S then, is a volitional condition wherein the person has 'control' over their reactions and therefore CAN 'control' the reactions.

>

> This is the kind of thinking whereby we see those who might say, even helpfully, well you know, stress brings on xyz therefore you CAUSED this xyz and thus, it is YOUR fault/responsibility/burden, etc.

>

> This is what was applied to psychology for centuries, i.e., Freudian thinking about schizophrenia, frigid mothers make this happen. Well it turns out to be a central brain chemistry defect.

>

> Not the mothers, who were made to feel horrible.

>

>

> I believe that we can exert control over the situation to some degree, and I wonder if you have any idea as to how MUCH control your own 10 year old is attempting to use on a constant exhausting basis, just to keep on as they say truckin'?

>

> If you want to really peek into the mind and heart of the miso/4S person, invite them to share how much of the time they WANT to react.

>

> Get a cuppa joe, it is gonna take a while to listen...

>

> Rightly so.

>

> Dr J

>

[Guest guest]

It is NORMAL for the people that they have emotional ties to,to be their triggers.My son is 35 and he still slaps himself in the ears when his wife or father makes a noise.his wife and him text to communicate.No 35 year old man would slap himself if he didnt have to.My son is a lead vocalist in a band and tours,and has a very high IQ,but it is what it is.I pray that someday his hell will end with a cure! :)Subject: Re: Anger and the need to controlTo: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 4:08

PM

I find the same thing with my 17 year old daughter. She reacts to me and her dad but not when others are around and not to her friends. She says she experiences misophonia with her friends, but she does not react at all. Why give the people closest to you the dirty looks and nasty comments? I understand that kids feel safe to be themselves with their parents, but why can they control their outbursts with some people and not others? It is definitely worse when she is tired or irritable to begin with. I still firmly believe tat this is much much more than a hearing issue. It is a sensory issue complicated by emotions.

Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Your daughter acts just like I did when I was young (and still do). When I first got misophonia I would tell my brother to stop making the noises, and I got mad if he made them. Later, my mom and sister started to trigger me, and I got mad because they were hurting me, either intentionally or through insensitivity (to my young mind).

I started hiding my misophonia reactions around people who didn’t know. That way I didn’t think they were trying to hurt me, which made it hurt less. Hiding it remains a top priority to me, and I still get mad occasionally, usually at my family.

Be grateful if she can hide her reactions; it is her attempt to cope. For her sake, please don’t tell her friends.

Hope this helps,

From: McCallum

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:08 AM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: Anger and the need to control

I find the same thing with my 17 year old daughter. She reacts to me and her dad but not when others are around and not to her friends. She says she experiences misophonia with her friends, but she does not react at all. Why give the people closest to you the dirty looks and nasty comments? I understand that kids feel safe to be themselves with their parents, but why can they control their outbursts with some people and not others? It is definitely worse when she is tired or irritable to begin with. I still firmly believe tat this is much much more than a hearing issue. It is a sensory issue complicated by emotions.Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

I do understand and sympathise with how difficult it must be for family members

to live with this. However, I would like to comment on the control or not topic.

My reaction is a lot milder than many peoples'. Using flight/fight terminology,

mine would be purely flight. I don't get angry or enraged, I just need to stop

hearing the sound, by whatever means necessary. Usually, that would be by

leaving, blocking my ears, wearing earplugs or headphones. From my perspective,

it's about the sounds - no more and no less. If a person ate something that

tasted awful, they would spit it out. If they smelled a putrid smell, they would

block their nose until they could get away. If they were repelled by a gory

scene in a movie, they would close their eyes. No one would think that strange.

Unfortunately, we can't spit out sounds or close our ears against them. We can

only block up our ears (with fingers/earplugs/headphones), avoid being anywhere

near the sounds, or try to stop them from happening. I certainly try to control

the way I interact with my environment (e.g. by living alone, by not buying a

house close to predictable sources of objectionable noise), but it's not about

trying to control other people. Children have little influence over the way they

live, so they have fewer options for sound avoidance. Complaining about family

members' noise may be all they can do.

Best wishes,

Liesa

>

> ,

> Thanks for your perspective. I understand your frustration and hope that you

understand the perspective of people on the other end. Living around someone

with misophonia is challenging. We really don't understand it and most of us

want to help our loved ones have a full and happy life. My questioning is out

of love and concern, not pointing fingers and blaming. If it is about control,

I am suggesting that it is on a very subconscious level. I believe all of the

feelings that go along with it are real. And, I will state for the record that

I feel very controlled by my son. This feeling is what leads me to this line

of questioning.

>

> I find it interesting that you involuntarily imitate your boyfriend. My son

has done some imitating, but I think he's quite aware he's doing it.

>

> All my best,

> Anne

[Guest guest]

That is a good observation. I have always noticed that my miso is not as bad when I am up. I think that is true for all things. When we are happy,in control ,On top of our game and feeling good about ourselves and life the things that normally bother us do not bother us as much. that's why I work hard at doing whatever is required to be on top of things. Lots of vigorous exercise,eating good food that gives a slow release of sugar to the blood stream. It's not a cure ,but this is to some degree a control issue. We panic when we feel our life or sanity is threatened In some way. So being in control is very important. Just my observation.Good luck with your son. He is lucky to have a caring mother.MikeSent from my iPad

I recently read the following statement about anger: "We are rarely angry for the reasons we think.' I tbegan wondering if the anger triggered by various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a need/desire to control a person or situation.

I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing to do with his ears.

My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.

Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the situation – the questions on the test – the time he has left to finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control those things, he will feel better.

This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

Thanks!

Anne

=

[Guest guest]

Oops! Correction: I meant I agree with Missy. Sorry, Anne.

> >

> > Anne, I do disagree with these assumptions for the most part. It is true

> > that stress increases our negative response to triggers as it affects

> > everything else in our lives. However, my experience is that my misophonia

> > triggers have ruined some of the happiest moments of my life, causing me to

> > either hold in the feeling that I would explode if I didn't react, or

causing

> > me to leave the situation.

> >

> > The testing situation is especially difficult for misophonics because it is

> > so quiet that you can hear the pencils scratching much more easily. Yes,

> > it's stressful, and knowing that you can't leave the room, and you can't

> > concentrate like you want to increases that stress. But the stress is not

> > the cause of the anger - the trigger sounds are.

> >

> > If your son was talking and laughing in the car, he may not have heard the

> > trigger sounds as much as if it had been a quiet, serious ride with nothing

> > going on but snacking sounds.

> >

> > Missy in Nashville

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 6/14/2012 1:41:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> > annebeckerart@ writes:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely angry

> > for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by

> > various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but

about

> > a need/desire to control a person or situation.

> >

> > I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that

> > there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including

> > anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

> >

> > I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently

> > suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his

problem had

> > nothing to do with his ears.

> >

> > My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are

> > going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and

> > having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired

> > misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car

are

> > difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer

tournament

> > a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a

> > problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that

> > he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to

> > the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was content.

> >

> > Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the

> > pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by

trying

> > to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over

> > the situation †" the questions on the test †" the time he has left to

> > finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements

going

> > on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he

> > can control those things, he will feel better.

> >

> > This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so

> > varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to people

that

> > cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is

> > really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then

maybe

> > we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

> >

> > Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing

> > all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > Anne

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Anne, you said an interesting thing -- you said you felt very controlled by your

son.

But that is not the same as him being controlling. The poor kid can't help it.

It is a tough condition for both the sufferer and the family.

> > >

> > > Anne, I do disagree with these assumptions for the most part. It is true

> > > that stress increases our negative response to triggers as it affects

> > > everything else in our lives. However, my experience is that my

misophonia

> > > triggers have ruined some of the happiest moments of my life, causing me

to

> > > either hold in the feeling that I would explode if I didn't react, or

causing

> > > me to leave the situation.

> > >

> > > The testing situation is especially difficult for misophonics because it

is

> > > so quiet that you can hear the pencils scratching much more easily.

Yes,

> > > it's stressful, and knowing that you can't leave the room, and you can't

> > > concentrate like you want to increases that stress. But the stress is

not

> > > the cause of the anger - the trigger sounds are.

> > >

> > > If your son was talking and laughing in the car, he may not have heard the

> > > trigger sounds as much as if it had been a quiet, serious ride with

nothing

> > > going on but snacking sounds.

> > >

> > > Missy in Nashville

> > >

> > >

> > > In a message dated 6/14/2012 1:41:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> > > annebeckerart@ writes:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely angry

> > > for the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by

> > > various sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but

about

> > > a need/desire to control a person or situation.

> > >

> > > I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider

that

> > > there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including

> > > anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

> > >

> > > I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently

> > > suggested he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his

problem had

> > > nothing to do with his ears.

> > >

> > > My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are

> > > going his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up

and

> > > having a good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired

> > > misophonia sets in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a

car are

> > > difficult for him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer

tournament

> > > a few hours away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a

> > > problem as we snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was

that

> > > he had us all doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to

> > > the tournament. He didn't need to control anything because he was

content.

> > >

> > > Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the

> > > pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by

trying

> > > to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control

over

> > > the situation †" the questions on the test †" the time he has left to

> > > finish, etc. This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and

movements going

> > > on around him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if

he

> > > can control those things, he will feel better.

> > >

> > > This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so

> > > varied from person to person. They may be situational or related to

people that

> > > cause the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is

> > > really causing the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then

maybe

> > > we could let the attachment to the sights and sounds go.

> > >

> > > Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing

> > > all I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Anne

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For me, the need to control involves the need to control my environment as much

as possible... because for SPDers/Misos, there is a predominant lack of control

over what other people do.

We can't PROCESS sounds the way " normal " people do... psychology only comes into

it in trying to cope with the condition. Anger tends to result from frustration

due to the lack of control... on top of the sounds themselves.

The idea of someone pretending to use a sound sensitivity in order to control

others would indicate a mental disorder, which has no relation to a real Miso

condition. SPD, Misophonia, and ADHD are all neurological conditions.

Vicki B.

[Guest guest]

Re: Test taking, I have found that when I concentrate on taking a test or on

reading something new, my senses " open up " so that every noise within range

enters my brain. This makes an already stressful situation even worse. I wonder

if others experience this, too.

Bette

>

> I recently read the following statement about anger: " We are rarely angry for

the reasons we think.' I began wondering if the anger triggered by various

sights and sounds is not really about the sight or the sound, but about a

need/desire to control a person or situation.

>

> I do wonder why it tends to manifest in this way, but then I consider that

there are many different manifestations of the need to control, including

anorexia, agoraphobia, and the list goes on.

>

> I do not have misophonia, but my ten year old does. When I recently suggested

he go to an ear doctor, he laughed and assured me that his problem had nothing

to do with his ears.

>

> My observation is that my son does not have misophonia when things are going

his way. When his friends are around and they are laughing it up and having a

good time, he is fine. When he is bored, stressed, or tired misophonia sets

in. This is a problem when we travel. Long periods in a car are difficult for

him. But, when we were recently driving to his soccer tournament a few hours

away, he was so excited to be going that misophonia was not a problem as we

snacked and rose in the car together. The difference was that he had us all

doing what HE wanted to do and he was happy to be going to the tournament. He

didn't need to control anything because he was content.

>

> Another example. He can become irritated at school during tests by the

pencils scratching on paper. My hypothesis is that he is frustrated by trying

to make a good grade and is somewhat resentful of his lack of control over the

situation – the questions on the test – the time he has left to finish, etc.

This may come out as an anger toward the sounds and movements going on around

him. His desire to control that is a mistaken thought that if he can control

those things, he will feel better.

>

> This could explain why triggers can be both visual and audible and so varied

from person to person. They may be situational or related to people that cause

the need to control arise. If we could learn to identify what is really causing

the anger and address that or learn to live with it, then maybe we could let the

attachment to the sights and sounds go.

>

>

> Many of you will disagree with me, but please do and explain. I am doing all

I can as a mom to try to help and understand my son.

>

>

> Thanks!

>

> Anne

>