Guest guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read his work / listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's who was known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western " language. " Finally, I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his work, and I have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually helped me see the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend it to anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and West, and I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the kind of psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I wonder if the creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were conceptualizing the treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Alan Watts is Buddhist heavy and believed it could be best thought of as a form of psychotherapy, and not just religion...so it's understandable why you would view his writing as ACT friendly > > Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read his work / > listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's who was > known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western " language. " Finally, > I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his work, and I > have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually helped me see > the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend it to anyone > who was interested in reading his stuff. > > Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and West, and I > couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the kind of > psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I wonder if the > creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were conceptualizing the > treatment. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I read a lot of Alan Watts back in the day. All the hippies did,especially in California, where I grew up. I thought he was really cool.He is definitely an ACT influence .. on moi anyway.But it's been probably 40 years since I've picked up a book by him so I can't make the comparisons in an intellectual way.- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@... Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read his work / listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's who was known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western " language. " Finally, I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his work, and I have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually helped me see the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend it to anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and West, and I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the kind of psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I wonder if the creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were conceptualizing the treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I knew it! Just like I knew est had to be an inspiration! Totally awesome.Since you are here, I have to say that it is marvelously, I mean fabulously and ridiculously, genius what you've done in transforming these many powerful but " loose " systems and ideas of liberation into a radically behavioral system of psychotherapy whose assumptions can be tested at the level of basic science! Totally in awe. Anyway, thanks for the confirmation re: Alan Watts as an inspiration! I read a lot of Alan Watts back in the day. All the hippies did,especially in California, where I grew up. I thought he was really cool.He is definitely an ACT influence .. on moi anyway.But it's been probably 40 years since I've picked up a book by him so I can't make the comparisons in an intellectual way.- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@... Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read his work / listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's who was known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western " language. " Finally, I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his work, and I have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually helped me see the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend it to anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and West, and I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the kind of psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I wonder if the creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were conceptualizing the treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 There was some fantastic legitimate research done with LSD and other psychoactive compounds which is now unable to be continued because of the laws that ban it. Some interesting research has also been done (in Europe mainly I think) on the use of Ecstasy for depression anxiety etc which has shown it has a lot of potential for therapeutic uses. Unfortunately any research on that drug is also very hampered by drug laws. I wouldn't judge the value of a chemical compound by its legality or otherwise. Alan Watts' use of LSD may well have gifted him with insights that were very valuable. Small doses of LSD have apparently been very beneficial for people in a therapeutic setting.cheersKateI think it's worth remembering that Watts and some of the folks he hung around with (Tim Leary, among others) were inspired by the ingestion of drugs like LSD andpsilocybin. Not saying that's the only thing, but it was there.Regards,Detlef> >> >>> >>> >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?> >>> >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read his work /> >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's who was> >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western "language." Finally,> >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his work, and I> >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually helped me see> >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my> >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context.> >>> >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend it to> >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff.> >>> >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and West, and> >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the kind of> >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I wonder if the> >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were conceptualizing the> >> treatment. > >>> >> > >>> >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Wow..creepy. This sounds almost identical to another list I was on a few years ago (it was full of angry anti-12-steppers and I was so naive. I finally ended up realizing it was comprised of maybe two or three (myself as one, the moderator as another)persons with many, many names and voices, creating all sorts of drama, debates and so forth). Boy, did all my " I'm such a sucker, I'm so naive " stuff come up big time, as it took me a couple of years to realize this. (I won't go into how I found out). But LSD history, politics and benefits came up regularly. In any case, Kate..I'd say this is too off topic for the list and I'd ask we stop the discussion about LSD, it's history, politics, benefits and so forth now. Not that it's not a legitimate discussion or debate to be had. Just not for this list. Thanks, Theresa > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > > >> > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > his work / > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > who was > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > " language. " Finally, > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > work, and I > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > helped me see > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > >> > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > it to > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > >> > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > West, and > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > kind of > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > wonder if the > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > conceptualizing the > > > >> treatment. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Terry said, I'd say this is too off topic for the list and I'd ask we stop the discussion about LSD, it's history, politics, benefits and so forth now. Not that it's not a legitimate discussion or debate to be had. Just not for this list. That would be a moderator call. I found the topic intriguing if not directly ACT relevant, and it probably would have died out with Kate's post without further ado. You know how it goes - an ACT-relevant topic splinters off to a related but non ACT-relevant topic, and then usually dies on the vine before fully ripening. Helena Re: Alan Watts Wow..creepy. This sounds almost identical to another list I was on a few years ago (it was full of angry anti-12-steppers and I was so naive. I finally ended up realizing it was comprised of maybe two or three (myself as one, the moderator as another)persons with many, many names and voices, creating all sorts of drama, debates and so forth). Boy, did all my "I'm such a sucker, I'm so naive" stuff come up big time, as it took me a couple of years to realize this. (I won't go into how I found out). But LSD history, politics and benefits came up regularly. In any case, Kate..I'd say this is too off topic for the list and I'd ask we stop the discussion about LSD, it's history, politics, benefits and so forth now. Not that it's not a legitimate discussion or debate to be had. Just not for this list. Thanks,Theresa> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?> > > >>> > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > his work /> > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > who was> > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > "language." Finally,> > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > work, and I> > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > helped me see> > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my> > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context.> > > >>> > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > it to> > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff.> > > >>> > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > West, and> > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > kind of> > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > wonder if the> > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > conceptualizing the> > > >> treatment. > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 I had a friend once with a eating disorder who was a member of a 12 step group. When I found out what the group taught I was alarmed, they said you can never change your condition and that the best you can do is to manage it. I don't know where they got their scientific research from but I never believed it for one minute. I knew what I wanted and nothing was going to stop me getting there and so I had many disagreements with my friend. Now the latest scientific research shows that I was dead right, but if you believe you can't change then you problaby won't. It is rather like the placebo effect, or its's opposite (you might believe a drug is making you worse when it isn't - it is all in the mind). If you really believe you can't get well then you will problably won't. Thank God I never listened to 12 step BS. Kv _ > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > > > >> > > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > his work / > > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > > who was > > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > " language. " Finally, > > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > > work, and I > > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > helped me see > > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > > >> > > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > > it to > > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > > >> > > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > > West, and > > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > kind of > > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > > wonder if the > > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > conceptualizing the > > > > >> treatment. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Helena, I agree with you.The LSD comments to which Terry seems to be taking exception - or perhaps she was taking exception to what she thought might have resulted without her intervention - seemed to me quite reasonable given the suggestion Watts may have been an influence to the developer(s) of ACT. Daly Terry said, I'd say this is too off topic for the list and I'd ask we stop the discussion about LSD, it's history, politics, benefits and so forth now. Not that it's not a legitimate discussion or debate to be had. Just not for this list. That would be a moderator call. I found the topic intriguing if not directly ACT relevant, and it probably would have died out with Kate's post without further ado. You know how it goes - an ACT-relevant topic splinters off to a related but non ACT-relevant topic, and then usually dies on the vine before fully ripening. Helena Re: Alan Watts Wow..creepy. This sounds almost identical to another list I was on a few years ago (it was full of angry anti-12-steppers and I was so naive. I finally ended up realizing it was comprised of maybe two or three (myself as one, the moderator as another)persons with many, many names and voices, creating all sorts of drama, debates and so forth). Boy, did all my " I'm such a sucker, I'm so naive " stuff come up big time, as it took me a couple of years to realize this. (I won't go into how I found out). But LSD history, politics and benefits came up regularly. In any case, Kate..I'd say this is too off topic for the list and I'd ask we stop the discussion about LSD, it's history, politics, benefits and so forth now. Not that it's not a legitimate discussion or debate to be had. Just not for this list. Thanks,Theresa> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?> > > >>> > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > his work /> > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > who was> > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > " language. " Finally,> > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > work, and I> > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > helped me see> > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context.> > > >>> > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > it to > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff.> > > >>> > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > West, and> > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > kind of> > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > wonder if the> > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > conceptualizing the> > > >> treatment. > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> >> >> -- www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life. Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks, projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 More likely, they said you can never change your addiction, not your condition, right? The 12-step model of addiction therapy teaches that the addiction needs to be managed since the addiction itself cannot be cured. Maybe your friend did need to manage a food addiction that he couldn't get rid of or control. If it works for the addict to believe that he will always be an addict and, therefore, must manage the addiction, so be it. I don't happen to buy into the disease theory of addiction, but I do think that some people must totaly abstain from their "drug" of choice in order to live a valued life. Knowing what you want and making damn you get it will not work for addicts so long as they keep using. Helena Re: Alan Watts I had a friend once with a eating disorder who was a member of a 12 step group. When I found out what the group taught I was alarmed, they said you can never change your condition and that the best you can do is to manage it. I don't know where they got their scientific research from but I never believed it for one minute.I knew what I wanted and nothing was going to stop me getting there and so I had many disagreements with my friend. Now the latest scientific research shows that I was dead right, but if you believe you can't change then you problaby won't. It is rather like the placebo effect, or its's opposite (you might believe a drug is making you worse when it isn't - it is all in the mind). If you really believe you can't get well then you will problably won't.Thank God I never listened to 12 step BS.Kv_ > > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?> > > > >>> > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > his work /> > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > > who was> > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > "language." Finally,> > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > > work, and I> > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > helped me see> > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my> > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context.> > > > >>> > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > > it to> > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff.> > > > >>> > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > > West, and> > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > kind of> > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > > wonder if the> > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > conceptualizing the> > > > >> treatment. > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 I disagree. Funny, you often eschew calling in the moderator and now you want to wait for that (?). There are plenty of other places on the internet where folks can debate and discuss the history and merits of LSD and Ecstasy use to their hearts delight. You said: " You know how it goes " . Disagree again. I don't think history is doomed to repeat itself. We don't need to sit back and have the topic about LSD and Ecstasy to go on and on and spin out into oblivion and no, we certainly don't need to wait for the incredibly busy moderators to come in and say so. Besides, their philosophy is very hands off and you know that. Helena, this is such a no-brainer. I don't get your resistance. I notice you are often the first to jump in with protest whenever I make a request or suggestion, no matter how benign. I'd ask you to look at that. Theresa > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > > > >> > > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > his work / > > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > > who was > > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > " language. " Finally, > > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > > work, and I > > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > helped me see > > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > > >> > > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > > it to > > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > > >> > > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > > West, and > > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > kind of > > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > > wonder if the > > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > conceptualizing the > > > > >> treatment. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 You may want to re-read Kate's post. This is clearly no longer about Alan Watts. Oh, and FYI: Hundreds of folks and encounters academic and personal served to influence Steve and the roots of ACT--some way more than others. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > > his work / > > > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > > > who was > > > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > > " language. " Finally, > > > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > > > work, and I > > > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > > helped me see > > > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > > > it to > > > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > > > West, and > > > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > > kind of > > > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > > > wonder if the > > > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > > conceptualizing the > > > > > >> treatment. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about > some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join > me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with > civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest > and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, > spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life. > > Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks, > projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things > Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out > using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 > > " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 yada yada yada Re: Alan Watts I disagree. Funny, you often eschew calling in the moderator and now you want to wait for that (?). There are plenty of other places on the internet where folks can debate and discuss the history and merits of LSD and Ecstasy use to their hearts delight. You said: "You know how it goes". Disagree again. I don't think history is doomed to repeat itself. We don't need to sit back and have the topic about LSD and Ecstasy to go on and on and spin out into oblivion and no, we certainly don't need to wait for the incredibly busy moderators to come in and say so. Besides, their philosophy is very hands off and you know that. Helena, this is such a no-brainer. I don't get your resistance. I notice you are often the first to jump in with protest whenever I make a request or suggestion, no matter how benign. I'd ask you to look at that.Theresa > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > > > >> > > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > his work / > > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > > who was > > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > "language." Finally, > > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > > work, and I > > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > helped me see > > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > > >> > > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > > it to > > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > > >> > > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > > West, and > > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > kind of > > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > > wonder if the > > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > conceptualizing the > > > > >> treatment. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Gee a lot happens overnight when you're in a different time zone! Theresa, I was responding to Detlef's warning about Alan Watts' purported use of psychoactive substances, because I thought it was valid to challenge the idea that certain substances are suspect because of their legal status. Also to suggest that Watts' use of them may have even been relevant, in a positive way, to his ideas and philosophy. I agree it's somewhat off-topic but then lots of things discussed on this list are off-topic, or become off-topic. As Helena said, it probably would have fizzled out of it's own accord. I don't think it was worthy of a request from you to immediately cease the discussion. I was surprised at the tone of your post. You obviously find this topic a confronting or distressing one, perhaps based on your experiences on the other list, (of which, by the way, I have no knowledge) but trying to stifle a discussion because of your own discomfort with it is, I would suggest, a tad inappropriate. Cheers Kate You may want to re-read Kate's post. This is clearly no longer about Alan Watts. Oh, and FYI: Hundreds of folks and encounters academic and personal served to influence Steve and the roots of ACT--some way more than others. > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts?> > > > > >>> > > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > > his work /> > > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's> > > > who was> > > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > > " language. " Finally,> > > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his> > > > work, and I> > > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > > helped me see> > > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my> > > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > > > >>> > > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend> > > > it to> > > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > > > >>> > > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and> > > > West, and> > > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > > kind of> > > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I> > > > wonder if the> > > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > > conceptualizing the> > > > > >> treatment. > > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about> some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join > me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with> civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest> and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, > spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life.> > Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks,> projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things > Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out> using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3> > " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 Theresa, respectfully I disagree.The comment about LSD was made in the context of another comment which had been made about Watts. While it is true the conversation could then have branched off into a tangent about LSD, it had not yet done so when you expressed your concern. I do realize Steve had a myriad of inluences in the development of ACT.Daly You may want to re-read Kate's post. This is clearly no longer about Alan Watts. Oh, and FYI: Hundreds of folks and encounters academic and personal served to influence Steve and the roots of ACT--some way more than others. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Has anyone here read any Alan Watts? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> For a long time, my brother had been telling me I should read > > > > his work / > > > > > >> listen to his lectures. He's an academic from the 50's and 60's > > > > who was > > > > > >> known for translating Eastern philosophies into Western > > > > " language. " Finally, > > > > > >> I've had the time and the attention span to really get into his > > > > work, and I > > > > > >> have to say, it's wonderfully ACT-consistent and has actually > > > > helped me see > > > > > >> the principles of ACT in a different light, which has deepened my > > > > > >> understanding, especially of what is meant by self-as-context. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I especially loved the Wisdom of Insecurity and would recommend > > > > it to > > > > > >> anyone who was interested in reading his stuff. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Last week, I read a book he wrote called Psychotherapy East and > > > > West, and > > > > > >> I couldn't help but feel like ACT is the EXACT answer to the > > > > kind of > > > > > >> psychotherapy he was recommending way back then (in 1961!). I > > > > wonder if the > > > > > >> creators of ACT were aware of this at the time they were > > > > conceptualizing the > > > > > >> treatment. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about > some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join > me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with > civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest > and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, > spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life. > > Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks, > projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things > Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out > using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 > > " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust > -- www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life. Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks, projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 Re tangents and off-topic discussions: I moderate a list that has more than 7,000 members ( Getting Things Done - http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Getting_Things_Done/ ), and over the years have been on dozens of lists of various kinds. I have observed that the lists which have the least involvement of their moderators tend to have the best discussions. A few lists I've been on have had a fairly activist role played by moderators, and often they have been the most acrimonious of lists. On the GTD list I moderate we have from time to time discussions which are off-topic. As long as no one is getting their knickers in too much of a twist, I tend to let them go on. As a rule, people are responsible enough to let those discussions go their course a while, and come back to topic. Sometimes a few people seem to become anxious about an off-topic discussion, and I try to be reassuring. When we have had clear reasons for me to be involved, or to deal with a dispute, I try to do so in a kind way. And then, very often, the next discussion is about whether I was fair, went too far, etc. Barring outright rudeness (which is very rare), such discussions I allow to go on because it is an obvious conflict of interest for me to use my power as a moderator to shut down a discussion about myself. We are a community, and one my committed values is to allow a community to work through its stuff, even if technically I own that community. The things we talk about are not as a rule as emotionally-laden or personal as the topics here. Yet as I read this list my sense is one of strong community, of people genuinely and in a good way caring about each other and about themselves. This list functions on a number of levels, being both a real community, and a metaphor for that community outside our front door. Irvin Yalom, in his great work on group therapy writes about how the group becomes for those in it a replay or a reflection of their family, or their work place, etc, and that because of that there are great possibilities to reflect and to learn. I think that is the genius of this group, and given the intrinsic wisdom and power of ACT, as well as the insights Yalom has about the nature of group, this group is invaluable, its potential beyond calculation.. For me, part of a group such as this is trusting ourselves and each other enough to allow latitude for perhaps going beyond what seems to be the set topic - rather than judging, to watch with curiosity and acceptance that something out of the norm seems to be happening, and wondering how the group will respond, how it will contain this experience. Daly Theresa, respectfully I disagree.The comment about LSD was made in the context of another comment which had been made about Watts. While it is true the conversation could then have branched off into a tangent about LSD, it had not yet done so when you expressed your concern. I do realize Steve had a myriad of inluences in the development of ACT.Daly-- www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life. Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks, projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust -- www.ExuberantEclectic.com is my personal blog where I'll be writing about some of the many things which interest and excite me. You're welcome to join me there, and to take issue with anything I write. Upcoming posts deal with civility, the challenges of youth gangs, trends in psychotherapy, the latest and best murder mysteries, personal organization and development, spirituality, and living with greater health and quality of life. Simply get things done (web, mobile, iPhone) - easily manage your tasks, projects, and due dates. NOZBE is recommended by Lifehacker, Getting Things Done blog, Office Evolution, and many more knowledgeable users. Check it out using the free version: http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 " We are healed from suffering only by experiencing it to the full. " Proust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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