Re: Cutting Edge vs Respond Ultra Class 4 laser

[Guest guest]

I love my Cutting Edge! Pam Nichols DVM,CCRPSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: VetRehab Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:28:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00)To: <vetrehab >ReplyTo: VetRehab Subject: Cutting Edge vs Respond Ultra Class 4 laser In the continued conversation about lasers, I had a chance to see a demo of the Cutting Edge portable laser. Seemed impressive, results were mixed on the cases we did- I know only one treatment with the demo... Nice portable unit for housecalls though... Pricy, $28,000 lease to own on a demo unit for 5 years ( about $400+ plus per month) not sure what cash price is or if I can get financing from my bank- Who owns a Cutting Edge and how did the price compare to this?Next week the holistic vet meeting is in San Diego and Respond will be there. Just talked to Doreen and she said their class 4 is $17,900 and their lease to own is about $350 per month- she said their machine is more powerful than Cutting Edge but it may be a bit bulky for housecalls...For those who have used either /or or even both of them - what is your preference?Thanks and you can send your reply to the vetrehab group or privately to me:jrtfan@...Carole Nicholson DVM

[Guest guest]

Carole,

I have a Cutting Edge and two Microlight 830s. I have no experience with

Respond but can give you some info regarding the Cutting Edge to compare with

others.

The efficacy of therapeutic laser is still debated and we continue to wait for

additional well-designed studies. Most of our colleagues involved with pain

management and rehab report anecdotal efficacy with this modality. I am pretty

much convinced however, not absolutely without any doubt whatsoever!

I think that everyone agrees that if the analgesic and biostimulatory effect of

therapy lasers does exist then 1) laser energy must reach the target tissues in

the patient 2) and the proper energy dose must be deposited in the target tissue

without risk of injury.

Cutting Edge has dual wavelength technology and it is my opinion that this

increase its ability to reach the target tissues. It also, even though a class

IV can come in direct contact with the patient, this reduces lost laser energy

from remittance. Remittance is a combination of reflection and absorption.

With surface contact reflection is all but eliminated and with compression and

contact, distance to target tissue is reduced and blood, hemoglobin and tissue

fluid (absorbers) between the delivery device and the target tissue is

decreased. The above statements are not true of the strong Class IVs that

cannot maintain contact and must be constantly moved over an area where the

target tissue is.

It is my opinion that we are very much in infancy regarding proper dosing of

therapeutic lasers (Joules/cm2) however as we learn more it will become

increasingly important that we accurately deliver the desired amount of energy

to the target tissue. This can only be done when a delivery device is in

contact with the tissue and laser output device is close to the delivery device.

So ask a lot of questions of salespeople realizing that they are biased to their

product. I would suggest, if you have not already, study some basic laser

physiology.

Rick Wall, DVM

Certified Canine Rehabilitation Practitioner

Diplomate, American Academy of Pain Management

Certified Myofascial Trigger Point Therapist

Center for Veterinary Pain Management and Rehabilitation

The Woodlands, TX

www.vetrehabcenter.com

[Guest guest]

Carole,I cannot comment on the efficacy of the cutting edge laser as I am not familiar with it. I am on my second Respond laser ( both class 3b) and would like to comment on what I consider equally important. The customer service Doreen provides is top notch. The respond people are incredibly responsive, efficient, knowledgeable, and accommodating. I have worked with a lot of vendors, of all kinds, in my human practice and the integrity of Doreen and her staff is second to none.Hope that helpsPavlakos, PT, CCRP From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Rick Wall, DVMSent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:42 PMTo: VetRehab Subject: Re: Cutting Edge vs Respond Ultra Class 4 laser Carole,I have a Cutting Edge and two Microlight 830s. I have no experience with Respond but can give you some info regarding the Cutting Edge to compare with others.The efficacy of therapeutic laser is still debated and we continue to wait for additional well-designed studies. Most of our colleagues involved with pain management and rehab report anecdotal efficacy with this modality. I am pretty much convinced however, not absolutely without any doubt whatsoever!I think that everyone agrees that if the analgesic and biostimulatory effect of therapy lasers does exist then 1) laser energy must reach the target tissues in the patient 2) and the proper energy dose must be deposited in the target tissue without risk of injury.Cutting Edge has dual wavelength technology and it is my opinion that this increase its ability to reach the target tissues. It also, even though a class IV can come in direct contact with the patient, this reduces lost laser energy from remittance. Remittance is a combination of reflection and absorption. With surface contact reflection is all but eliminated and with compression and contact, distance to target tissue is reduced and blood, hemoglobin and tissue fluid (absorbers) between the delivery device and the target tissue is decreased. The above statements are not true of the strong Class IVs that cannot maintain contact and must be constantly moved over an area where the target tissue is. It is my opinion that we are very much in infancy regarding proper dosing of therapeutic lasers (Joules/cm2) however as we learn more it will become increasingly important that we accurately deliver the desired amount of energy to the target tissue. This can only be done when a delivery device is in contact with the tissue and laser output device is close to the delivery device. So ask a lot of questions of salespeople realizing that they are biased to their product. I would suggest, if you have not already, study some basic laser physiology.Rick Wall, DVMCertified Canine Rehabilitation PractitionerDiplomate, American Academy of Pain ManagementCertified Myofascial Trigger Point TherapistCenter for Veterinary Pain Management and RehabilitationThe Woodlands, TXwww.vetrehabcenter.com

[Guest guest]

I received an off list e-mail from Jan VanDyke who most graciously made be aware

of a mistake I made on the definition of " remittance " that is was defined as

reflection and absorption. I do stand corrected in that remittance regarding

therapy laser is a combination of reflectance and scatter of the beam. My

mistake, excuse me for my ignorance and forgetfulness!

Thank you Jan!

Rick Wall

[Guest guest]

We use Cutting Edge and are now " playing with " the Respond. I love both lasers,

I think they both have pros and cons. I can tell you that my husband had an

infected finger and we used both lasers on it depending on what was available

when we treated him and he commented that though the respond probably helped,

there was pain reduction that he could feel with the Cutting Edge that he did

not feel with the Respond. Each time we used it, with both lasers, the redness

and puffiness would decrease.

Laurie McCauley

>

> Carole,

>

> I cannot comment on the efficacy of the cutting edge laser as I am not

> familiar with it. I am on my second Respond laser ( both class 3b) and would

> like to comment on what I consider equally important. The customer service

> Doreen provides is top notch. The respond people are incredibly responsive,

> efficient, knowledgeable, and accommodating. I have worked with a lot of

> vendors, of all kinds, in my human practice and the integrity of Doreen and

> her staff is second to none.

>

> Hope that helps

>

> Pavlakos, PT, CCRP

>

>

>

> From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf

> Of Rick Wall, DVM

> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:42 PM

> To: VetRehab

> Subject: Re: Cutting Edge vs Respond Ultra Class 4 laser

>

>

>

>

>

> Carole,

>

> I have a Cutting Edge and two Microlight 830s. I have no experience with

> Respond but can give you some info regarding the Cutting Edge to compare

> with others.

>

> The efficacy of therapeutic laser is still debated and we continue to wait

> for additional well-designed studies. Most of our colleagues involved with

> pain management and rehab report anecdotal efficacy with this modality. I am

> pretty much convinced however, not absolutely without any doubt whatsoever!

>

> I think that everyone agrees that if the analgesic and biostimulatory effect

> of therapy lasers does exist then 1) laser energy must reach the target

> tissues in the patient 2) and the proper energy dose must be deposited in

> the target tissue without risk of injury.

>

> Cutting Edge has dual wavelength technology and it is my opinion that this

> increase its ability to reach the target tissues. It also, even though a

> class IV can come in direct contact with the patient, this reduces lost

> laser energy from remittance. Remittance is a combination of reflection and

> absorption. With surface contact reflection is all but eliminated and with

> compression and contact, distance to target tissue is reduced and blood,

> hemoglobin and tissue fluid (absorbers) between the delivery device and the

> target tissue is decreased. The above statements are not true of the strong

> Class IVs that cannot maintain contact and must be constantly moved over an

> area where the target tissue is.

>

> It is my opinion that we are very much in infancy regarding proper dosing of

> therapeutic lasers (Joules/cm2) however as we learn more it will become

> increasingly important that we accurately deliver the desired amount of

> energy to the target tissue. This can only be done when a delivery device is

> in contact with the tissue and laser output device is close to the delivery

> device.

>

> So ask a lot of questions of salespeople realizing that they are biased to

> their product. I would suggest, if you have not already, study some basic

> laser physiology.

>

> Rick Wall, DVM

> Certified Canine Rehabilitation Practitioner

> Diplomate, American Academy of Pain Management

> Certified Myofascial Trigger Point Therapist

>

> Center for Veterinary Pain Management and Rehabilitation

> The Woodlands, TX

> www.vetrehabcenter.com

>