Re: Re: loneliness

[Guest guest]

Thank you, .

Haakon, I truly apologize if my response was not helpful to you, or worse, hurtful. After my post was sent, I was worried that I used too few words to convery what I meant. When I saw your suffering last evening, my heart reached out to you. I didn't think a lot of words would be helpful to you in that moment. My short response was meant to be like a hug without words, as if we were together in person. I just wanted to let you know that you were not alone in being lonely. And that is is OK to feel lonely -- not something to struggle against or try to get rid of. If you can't use any ACT tools in the moment that will help to defuse your thoughts of loneliness, just sit with it quietly and let it be. I wish I had actually spelled it out like that, in retrospect.

My best to you,

Helena

Re: loneliness

Helena, For me, I believe your reply was no very helpful for haakon, I'm guessing it's not ok for him, even though he is not necessarily seeking a solution.

haakon,

I am guessing haakon, you are just wanting to be heard, the fact that you are lonely, and how it is hard to be with?

Yes, haakon, loneliness can bring up many things and I imagine none of them are nice or easy to deal with for you right in this moment while you experience it.

I feel touched that you have been able to open up and to be vulnerable with saying how it is for you.

______________________________________Helena wrote:I feel lonely, too, It's OK. Helena ______________________________________ haakon wrote:

i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this. haakon

[Guest guest]

Few words, but quite powerful, Helena. This forum provides a nice balance between detailed practical solutions, emotional support, and sometimes a little "we're in this together, it's OK" adds to that perfectly. x

i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this. haakon

[Guest guest]

everytime in the past that i accepted loneliness...amazingly, something new appeared that was interesting.

i realized the underlying idea was...there's nobody here...than, i need someone here...this isn't OK.

then i realized, there were people everywhere...phone call...TV even...mall.

i would go from loneliness to saturation with people...too many even.

kind regards, jason

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:33:42 AMSubject: Re: loneliness

Hi Haakon,

Are you fairly fit? If you are then I recommend dancing as the best way to meet new people. The great thing about dancing is that conversation is easy because all you need to talk about is dancing, and you can get away with not talking about much else for months. And if you ask someone for dance, it doesn't mean your are trying to date them, people want to dance for the fun of it and also to practice. I do Lindy Hop (see link below) and jive, but all the different dances are a good way to meet new people (salsa, latin, rock & roll, ballroom. etc). Okay, if you are shy then learning how to dance with a load of strangers is totally nerve wracking. It was for me but I tuffed it out and wow! what a social life I got from it. In no time I was going all over London with new friends to different clubs, and also over the south of England too (the coast is only an hour's drive from London). I didn't drive at the time but people

were happy take me along. I also got invited to parties and after six months I had a girlfriend. People usually go to dancing because they want to meet new people and so they are very friendly. Dancing atracts people from all age groups and in the UK the 30 to 60 age group is predominent, so it isn't just for youngsters.

I'm going to be very indulgent here and post as link to some great Lindy Hop as I love the dance so much. But don't worry, us more ordinary folk don't do all the acrobatic stuff shown here. It's terrific fun though.

All the best,

KV

> i feel lonely. i know you

can't help me. i've been calling my mom> lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try> looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.> > haakon>

[Guest guest]

I agree, dancing is a great way to go if you love music and movement.  But it does take considerable effort and time.  Of all the people who show up at a beginner's class, only about 5 or 10% are still around after a couple months.   I started 11 1/2 years ago and I used my obsessive-compulsive tendency to accelerate my learning.  I became very addicted and obsessed and would go dancing 5 or 6 or 7 nights a weeks for a while.  I once went out dancing 21 straight nights in row back in 2000.  I also would think about music and dance all day long and would practice while walking down a hallway or down the street or while grocery shopping or waiting in line somewhere.

Now I keep it to a more modest 3 or 4 nights a week.  Last night I had a wonderful night of Lindy and still feel the high from that.I can do Lindy Hop, Argentine Tango, West Coast Swing and Salsa all pretty well.  I seldom am doing all four, but focus on one or two for a while and then for no good reason switch it every few months.  Right now I've been doing tango and lindy - also blues dancing which is sort of part of the Lindy community.  Last Saturday night I went to a tango and blues dance.  Wow is that fun!  Great music both tango and blues and I dance every song for several hours with dozens of wonderful women.

Salsa is the easiest so that might be one to begin with if you like salsa music.  And it's big so you'll get to meet lots of folk.  Where I live there is large Latino population so it's especially large.  I think salsa lacks a little in some ways - they don't connect as well as other dancers.  So you shouldn't just do salsa.

The tango people are the most serious but I've also formed the closest friendships there.  I live in a city with one of the best tango communities in North America.  I love tango music.  One can also dance tango steps to other music.  Tango is suppose to be so hard to learn, but really as far as getting on the dance floor and have decent dances in little time, tango is one of the best.  It's basically taking a walk around the dance floor with a lovely partner.

Lindy is hard to learn but the music is wonderful - swing (Goodman, Ellington, Ella, Chick Webb, Armstrong, Basie, etc), other jazz, blues, 50s rock plus more.  Very young crowd.  WCS has large variety of music - blues, hip-hop, pop, contemporary, rock - all kinds of different stuff. 

Salsa is all ages.  Lindy teens to 30s mostly with some 40s and 50s.  Tango mostly 40s - 60s+, and WCS 30s-60s+ - both with some young folk.The kind of exercise you get in dance I think is much more valuable than something like running.  There's more variety of movements involve and works all muscles plus lots of brain and nerve activity to do the more complex movements of dance.

Anyway, I LOVE to dance!!  And I spend a large chunk of my waking hours either dancing or thinking about dancing.  So I of course would recommend dancing.  But be ready to make commitment and realize it will take a while to get going.  I think that is actually a good thing though as oppose to just going after the more immediate gratifying but more shallow things.

Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Kaivey wrote:

 

Hi Haakon,

Are you fairly fit? If you are then I recommend dancing as the best way to meet new people.  The great thing about dancing is that conversation is easy because all you need to talk about is dancing, and you can get away with not talking about much else for months. And if you ask someone for dance, it doesn't mean your are trying to date them, people want to dance for the fun of it and also to practice. I do Lindy Hop (see link below) and jive, but all the different dances are a good way to meet new people (salsa, latin, rock & roll, ballroom. etc). Okay, if you are shy then learning how to dance with a load of strangers is totally nerve wracking. It was for me but I tuffed it out and wow! what a social life I got from it. In no time I was going all over London with new friends to different clubs, and also over the south of England too (the coast is only an hour's drive from London). I didn't drive at the time but people were happy take me along. I also got invited to parties and after six months I had a girlfriend. People usually go to dancing because they want to meet new people and so they are very friendly. Dancing atracts people from all age groups and in the UK the 30 to 60 age group is predominent, so it isn't just for youngsters.

I'm going to be very indulgent here and post as link to some great Lindy Hop as I love the dance so much. But don't worry, us more ordinary folk don't do all the acrobatic stuff shown here. It's terrific fun though.

All the best,

KV

 

 

> i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom> lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try> looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > haakon>

[Guest guest]

Oh, one caveat to the advice to the originator of this conversation.  Go dance if you find you love to dance.  But it may not work so well if your main interest is meeting people or potential dates.  It works better to go do what you love to do and then when you meet others who love doing what you are doing and make friends or dates, then the better.

Oh yeah, KV, I use to go to tea dances too.  I'm not very surprised same thing has happen to you.  It happens to many of us.  Some of my dance friends make fun of me because I try to go to two dances on Tuesday nights.  There are two places I want to go on Tuesdays - one tango and one lindy - so I try to hit both.  So I can relate to the 8 times a week, KV!

Yeah, I think part of my drive is a feeling of not being good enough.  This may drive me to do things to prepare and to become good enough, but put off the actually thing I'm preparing for or trying to become good enough for.  " Oh, I like that girl and she seems interested in me and is friendly, but I better wait to pursue it until I am more financially stable and have lost about 10 lbs. "   Never happens.  Or " this job looks interesting and I basically have the qualifications and I think I might do well in it, but I better wait, I don't fully understand this or have much in experience in that, so I better read up on this and get more experience in that before applying. "   Never happens.

But I think often the obsessions are not about that feeling of not good enough.  Or not only about that.  Often it may be good to follow those obsessions.

 

Hey! that happenned to me, , I was going 8 times a week at one point would you believe - every night with a Saturday afternoon lesson and then out again in the evening along with a 3 and a 1/2 hour tea dance every Sunday afternoon. When I was doing lots of college before that it was all about college (I thought I was gong to become a scientist), now it is all about guitars and keyboards. Hmmm!I keep thinking something is eventually going to work and turm my life around.

Wow! maybe one day I won't be so driven by this fear that drives me on and on - this feeling inside that I am not good enough yet.

KV

> > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom

> > > lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try

> > > looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > >

> > > haakon

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, that was an awesome post from ! I don't see you as self-centered at all. I see you as brave for reaching out and sharing your pain with us. When you're up to your ass in alligators (or dinosaurs as in 's example), your only thoughts are about survival.

Have you given any thought to finding an ACT therapist, haakon? I think that could be helpful to you--but maybe you have good reason to stick with your current therapist.

Take care,

Helena

Re: loneliness

hi.i just read the post of steven hayes. he kind of says it all. i will try again. and again.h> > > > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom> > > > > > lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try> > > > > > looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written> > > this.> > > > > >> > > > > > haakon> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Good for you! It's amazing how even just a little activity can make you feel better.

Helena

Re: loneliness

i read a little in get out of your mind.. today, about doing things because "you said so". i liked that. so at least today i have been out jogging, which felt good. yeah.haakon> > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.> > haakon> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi haakon,

I just thought of something else that might be useful to you. I have been on so many long funks of depression that sometimes I do nothing, other than what is absolutely necessary, for weeks at a time. My housework gets behind; I fail to vacuum, do laundry, etc. When I'm in that state, I tell myself that I will "DO JUST ONE THING" each day. It may be something so simple as dusting one piece of furniture or organizing my shoes in the closet or walking around the block. I often find that I can keep going, and sometimes I can't, but I feel empowered if I have done at least one thing, which proves that I'm not totally useless and helpless.

This little trick works for me, and it sounds like you are using much the same strategy since you went out jogging. It works best (for me) if you decide when you get up in the morning what one thing you will do. Then tell yourself you will do it and do it because you said so. I think this works within ACT principles as long as you hold it lightly so it doesn't become a set-up for failure or an avoidance technique.

Helena

Re: loneliness

i read a little in get out of your mind.. today, about doing things because "you said so". i liked that. so at least today i have been out jogging, which felt good. yeah.haakon> > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.> > haakon> >>

[Guest guest]

Holding it lightly means that you don't take it too seriously; nothing is cast in cement. So, yes, that would include not obsessing over it. So if you say you're going to do "just one thing" and for some reason you don't, you don't beat yourself up. You just accept that and get back on track the next day without guilt or "shoulding" on yourself.

Maybe someone else can explain it better--if so, jump in!Helena

Re: loneliness

thank you, helena. but what do you mean by "holding it lightly"? that i shouldn't obsess over it?haakon > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this. > > > haakon > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

what has been helping me was if the outcome does not in agreement with my goal,

i accept the outcome or emotions as a my pocession and put it aside since i do

not really need it,then move on. If in agreement,i accept it and carry it with

me.-mulan

>

>

>Holding it lightly means that you don't take it too seriously; nothing is cast

in cement.  So, yes, that would include not obsessing over it.  So if you say

you're going to do " just one thing " and for some reason you don't, you don't

beat yourself up.  You just accept that and get back on track the next day

without guilt or " shoulding " on yourself. 

>

>

>

>Maybe someone else can explain it better--if so, jump in!

>

>Helena

>

>

>

>

> Re: loneliness

>

> 

>

>

>

>

>

>thank you, helena. but what do you mean by " holding it lightly " ? that i

shouldn't obsess over it?

>

>haakon

>

>> > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately,

talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts,

but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

>> > > haakon

>> > >

>> >

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i know what you mean JIm, i was talking more on the line of behavior analysis. I agree, it's not part of ACT endorses.:)have you guys tried the demon on a boat senario? or even the try the defusion ?Subject: Re: lonelinessTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 6:41 PM

Mulan,

I'm not sure that's an approach ACT endorses. Keeping count of obsessions and trying to have fewer or obsess over them less would seem to result in more obsessive thoughts rather than fewer. My understanding of ACT is that it doesn't involve working on having fewer obsessive thoughts, but at accepting the fact that a certain number are bound to show up and not buying into their content when that happens.

Jim

> > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > > > haakon

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually if you did this with overt compulsions it would be relatively safe ...obsessions are different because automatic thoughts are not undervoluntary control and the means you use to try to bring them under

control tend to increase their functional importance and often (long term)even their frequencyStrange but trueACT is part of behavior analysis but it is based on an analysis of language, not just direct consequences, and that changes

things- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing "

hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site:  http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

 

i know what you mean JIm, i was talking more on the line of behavior analysis. I agree, it's not part of ACT endorses.

have you guys tried the demon on a boat senario?  or even the try the defusion ?

Subject: Re: loneliness

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 6:41 PM

 

Mulan,

I'm not sure that's an approach ACT endorses. Keeping count of obsessions and trying to have fewer or obsess over them less would seem to result in more obsessive thoughts rather than fewer. My understanding of ACT is that it doesn't involve working on having fewer obsessive thoughts, but at accepting the fact that a certain number are bound to show up and not buying into their content when that happens.

Jim

> > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > > > haakon

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

is it similar to supression in CBT? in order not to think about the dog one is afraid of, one has to say the word dog in order to avoid it, then one tends to say the word dog more often than usual

Subject: Re: loneliness

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 6:41 PM

Mulan,

I'm not sure that's an approach ACT endorses. Keeping count of obsessions and trying to have fewer or obsess over them less would seem to result in more obsessive thoughts rather than fewer. My understanding of ACT is that it doesn't involve working on having fewer obsessive thoughts, but at accepting the fact that a certain number are bound to show up and not buying into their content when that happens.

Jim

> > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > > > haakon

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hope you don't mind if I jump in with a few thoughts, idiot that I am sometimes.

Loneliness is thought-based, but that does not make the emotions unreal; it's the threat they represent that isn't real (usually). To acknowledge "I feel lonely" rather than "I'm lonely" may be a good way to echo it back to our minds, but I don't think saying it the first way is denying the present moment, which is what it is. ACT teaches us how to not identify with these untrue statements and unreal threats, but I believe we must first acknowledge the untrue thoughts as part of the present moment--although they represent a distorted reality. Sharing feelings of loneliness may be a way of learning from others how the feelings are not the reality.

I may be waaay off base here and showing how little I know about ACT!Helena

Re: loneliness

, I have said it before, but in my personal experience, I have found many times that the feeling of loneliness is thought based...Aloneness is obviously not loneliness Usually for me, in identifying with thoughts/beliefs that the particular present moment "should" and "would" be better if shared in some wayBoth judgments that deny the moment that isAny thoughts on this? > > > > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom> > lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking> > at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.> > > > > > haakon> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

i agree with you Helena. i like to separate myself from my mind when i look at things. Seeing things from the third person definitely brings a whole new perspective than someone who is the primary person that is blinded to truth image.I really like the word "notice"; it makes me more like an observer of my own behavior and make sense of it.-mulanSubject: Re: Re: lonelinessTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 8:59 AM

Hope you don't mind if I jump in with a few thoughts, idiot that I am sometimes.

Loneliness is thought-based, but that does not make the emotions unreal; it's the threat they represent that isn't real (usually). To acknowledge "I feel lonely" rather than "I'm lonely" may be a good way to echo it back to our minds, but I don't think saying it the first way is denying the present moment, which is what it is. ACT teaches us how to not identify with these untrue statements and unreal threats, but I believe we must first acknowledge the untrue thoughts as part of the present moment--although they represent a distorted reality. Sharing feelings of loneliness may be a way of learning from others how the feelings are not the reality.

I may be waaay off base here and showing how little I know about ACT!Helena

Re: loneliness

, I have said it before, but in my personal experience, I have found many times that the feeling of loneliness is thought based...Aloneness is obviously not loneliness Usually for me, in identifying with thoughts/beliefs that the particular present moment "should" and "would" be better if shared in some wayBoth judgments that deny the moment that isAny thoughts on this? > > > > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom> > lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking> > at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.> > > > > > haakon> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

we interpret the events around us to come up with the conclusion/ thought that we feel lonely. eg. if you are in your room by yourself, and you feel lonely because you know your coworkers are out having a blast and you are not invited. so the contrast of coworkers having fun and the physically empty space of the room lead to the conclusion of i feel lonely. Subject: Re: lonelinessTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 4:32 PM

oh, i agree that the emotion is a real feeling, but the emotion is triggered by the mind...

just wanted to clarify if that was agreed upon that loneliness is a thinking issue, and not inherit in being alone...I surmise that many people mistakenly fuse those 2

"I feel lonely" rightfully acknowledges the feeling, but if it is thought that causes the feeling, than what type of thoughts are responsible?

That's where I was eluding to believing thoughts...ex: "I should* have a partner", "nobody cares about me", etc..

Of course if you believed that, then you are going to experience a sense of loneliness

> > > > > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom

> > > lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking

> > > at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > > > > > > haakon

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

[Guest guest]

Nothing wrong with desiring an partner.  But demanding that you do or insisting you must or musturbating as Albert Ellis puts it, or thinking you are total loser or thinking that it shows you are defective if you don't, or obsessing how unfair the world is that you don't have one - all this doesn't work so well for most people most of the time.  I'll even go so far as say almost all people 99% of time.

Nothing wrong with feeling lonely.  But I would be careful in seeing what it means.  I don't think it's as simple as meaning you want friends or desire a partner or you don't like being alone.  The feeling of loniless I think can come from other things and not just being alone.  Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't think will generally solve the loneliness problem.  And I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think so.  They won't.

Some married folk feel lonely.  Some folks with lots of nice friends feel lonely.

 

>

> That's where I was eluding to believing thoughts...ex: " I

> should have a partner " , " nobody cares about me " , etc..

>

> Of course if you believed that, then you are going to

> experience a sense of loneliness

What is wrong with someone wanting a partner?

For that matter, what is wrong with feeling lonely?

- R.

[Guest guest]

I would not feel lonely in this situation but would feel quite glad about it.  I love being alone.  I don't particular like going out with a group.  It depends on what co-workers are doing to have a blast.  But I sometimes feel a little obligation to go out with co-workers or to lunch or to a party someone is having.  It's not something I like.  It's not social anxiety - it's just I'm not a sit and chat with a large group kind of guy.  I get antsy.  I have a hard time following conversations.  I think I don't screen out what others around me are saying and focus on just the conversation at my end of table.  So I often feel frustrated.  The thought of sitting in a restaurant or a bar with a group of people brings the feeling of dread.

So, my emotions in this situation might be relief or happiness.  My " thought " of preferring to be home alone you can say is what lead to my feelings.  But those thoughts are not so controllable.   This is more of how I am and what I like.  Trying to make some kind of argument to myself that I do like going out with a group will not change my thoughts very much.

 

we interpret the events around us to come up with the conclusion/ thought that we feel lonely.  eg. if you are in your room by yourself, and you feel lonely because you know your coworkers are out having a blast and you are not invited. so the contrast of coworkers having fun and the physically empty space of the room lead to the conclusion of i feel lonely.

Subject: Re: lonelinessTo: ACT_for_the_Public

Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 4:32 PM

 

oh, i agree that the emotion is a real feeling, but the emotion is triggered by the mind...

just wanted to clarify if that was agreed upon that loneliness is a thinking issue, and not inherit in being alone...I surmise that many people mistakenly fuse those 2

" I feel lonely " rightfully acknowledges the feeling, but if it is thought that causes the feeling, than what type of thoughts are responsible?

That's where I was eluding to believing thoughts...ex: " I should* have a partner " , " nobody cares about me " , etc..

Of course if you believed that, then you are going to experience a sense of loneliness

> > > > > > > i feel lonely. i know you can't help me. i've been calling my mom

> > > lately, talking to her. she feels powerless. now i feel dead. i try looking

> > > at thoughts, but it doesn't work. at least i have written this.

> > > > > > > haakon

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

I think of loneliness as being, at its core, a state of disconnection. And this disconnectedness can happen even while we have social interaction with others; thus the common saying ‘I was so lonely in that marriage’; or the unpleasant experience of disconnection that we’ve all had when we’re with someone physically but they’re ‘not really present’.In this state of disconnection, unpleasant thoughts and feelings arise, and we tend to call this experience ‘loneliness’.When we look at loneliness this way, we can see that accepting/defusing our thoughts and feelings is part of the answer, but not the whole of it. The other part is to cultivate connection. Now we could cultivate connection with other people, but it may not be possible in some situations, or we may choose not to. If we don’t or can’t cultivate that connection with other people, we can cultivate it with ourselves, through self-compassion, self-nurture, self-development. Or we can create that connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport. Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important. Hope this helps in some way. All the best,Cheers, Russ www.actmindfully.com.auwww.thehappinesstrap.com From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of RandySent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 8:43 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: loneliness > Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> think will generally solve the loneliness problem.You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd sayyou're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Humanare social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Areyou going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seekfriends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't seeyou doing that. Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. -R.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting email. When Russ said cultivating connection, I sense that it can be interpreted as we are actively cultivating connection as an active response to control the loneliness. Then, in that way, won't it be some sort of control strategy?I am also referring back to ' dinosaur email when he said relaxation and acceptance are not on the same category. Isn't it possible to do relaxation exercises and still get along with ACT?It appears that I haven't satisfactorily graduated from this part yet since my last questions couple months ago (more or less the same topic). Hoping you (or others in this list) have the patience to help me with this.Thanks,MerlinPowered by Telkomsel BlackBerry®Sender: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:53:32 +1100To: <ACT_for_the_Public >ReplyTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: RE: Re: loneliness I think of loneliness as being, at its core, a state of disconnection. And this disconnectedness can happen even while we have social interaction with others; thus the common saying ‘I was so lonely in that marriage’; or the unpleasant experience of disconnection that we’ve all had when we’re with someone physically but they’re ‘not really present’.In this state of disconnection, unpleasant thoughts and feelings arise, and we tend to call this experience ‘loneliness’.When we look at loneliness this way, we can see that accepting/defusing our thoughts and feelings is part of the answer, but not the whole of it. The other part is to cultivate connection. Now we could cultivate connection with other people, but it may not be possible in some situations, or we may choose not to. If we don’t or can’t cultivate that connection with other people, we can cultivate it with ourselves, through self-compassion, self-nurture, self-development. Or we can create that connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport. Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important. Hope this helps in some way. All the best,Cheers, Russ www.actmindfully.com.auwww.thehappinesstrap.com From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of RandySent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 8:43 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: loneliness > Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> think will generally solve the loneliness problem.You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd sayyou're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Humanare social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Areyou going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seekfriends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't seeyou doing that. Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. -R.

[Guest guest]

Hi MerlinI would see it more as: we are social beings, connection is something we innately "need", so to seek it out is no more a control strategy than eating when hungry, drinking when thirsty (even though they are biological needs, just can't think of an example ATM that isn't :-))KateVery interesting email. When Russ said cultivating connection, I sense that it can be interpreted as we are actively cultivating connection as an active response to control the loneliness. Then, in that way, won't it be some sort of control strategy?I am also referring back to ' dinosaur email when he said relaxation and acceptance are not on the same category. Isn't it possible to do relaxation exercises and still get along with ACT?It appears that I haven't satisfactorily graduated from this part yet since my last questions couple months ago (more or less the same topic). Hoping you (or others in this list) have the patience to help me with this.Thanks,MerlinPowered by Telkomsel BlackBerry®Sender: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:53:32 +1100To: <ACT_for_the_Public >ReplyTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: RE: Re: loneliness I think of loneliness as being, at its core, a state of disconnection.And this disconnectedness can happen even while we have social interaction with others; thus the common saying ‘I was so lonely in that marriage’; or the unpleasant experience of disconnection that we’ve all had when we’re with someone physically but they’re ‘not really present’.In this state of disconnection, unpleasant thoughts and feelings arise, and we tend to call this experience ‘loneliness’.When we look at loneliness this way, we can see that accepting/defusing our thoughts and feelings is part of the answer, but not the whole of it.The other part is to cultivate connection. Now we could cultivate connection with other people, but it may not be possible in some situations, or we may choose not to. If we don’t or can’t cultivate that connection with other people, we can cultivate it with ourselves, through self-compassion, self-nurture, self-development.Or we can create that connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport.Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important.Hope this helps in some way. All the best,Cheers,Russ www.actmindfully.com.auwww.thehappinesstrap.com From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of RandySent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 8:43 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: loneliness > Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> think will generally solve the loneliness problem.You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd sayyou're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Humanare social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Areyou going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seekfriends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't seeyou doing that. Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. -R.

[Guest guest]

Hi Merlin, By ‘control strategy’ ACT means ‘a strategy intended to avoid or get rid of unpleasant private experiences’. So if your intention in cultivating connection is first and foremost to try to get rid of those unpleasant thoughts and feelings, then yes, it would be a control strategy. But that is not what I meant at all. When I said ‘Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear’ I should have added ‘This is a bonus, however; it is not the main aim.’ I see my loneliness as a signal that I am disconnected; and a reminder that I value connecting. The aim then is to cultivate connection, primarily because I value connecting. If the ‘loneliness’ disappears as a result – which it often does – then nice bonus. On a separate note, ACT is not against all control strategies; ACT only targets control strategies when they get in the way of valued living. Used appropriately, sensibly, flexibly, in moderation, we’re unlikely to run into problems using control strategies. But if we use them excessively, rigidly, inappropriately, in ways that interfere with valued living , then it’s a different story. All the best,Cheers, Russ www.actmindfully.com.auwww.thehappinesstrap.com From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of kateSent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 1:51 PMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: loneliness Hi MerlinI would see it more as: we are social beings, connection is something we innately " need " , so to seek it out is no more a control strategy than eating when hungry, drinking when thirsty (even though they are biological needs, just can't think of an example ATM that isn't :-)) Kate Very interesting email. When Russ said cultivating connection, I sense that it can be interpreted as we are actively cultivating connection as an active response to control the loneliness. Then, in that way, won't it be some sort of control strategy?I am also referring back to ' dinosaur email when he said relaxation and acceptance are not on the same category. Isn't it possible to do relaxation exercises and still get along with ACT?It appears that I haven't satisfactorily graduated from this part yet since my last questions couple months ago (more or less the same topic). Hoping you (or others in this list) have the patience to help me with this.Thanks,MerlinPowered by Telkomsel BlackBerry®Sender: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:53:32 +1100To: <ACT_for_the_Public >ReplyTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: RE: Re: loneliness I think of loneliness as being, at its core, a state of disconnection.And this disconnectedness can happen even while we have social interaction with others; thus the common saying ‘I was so lonely in that marriage’; or the unpleasant experience of disconnection that we’ve all had when we’re with someone physically but they’re ‘not really present’.In this state of disconnection, unpleasant thoughts and feelings arise, and we tend to call this experience ‘loneliness’.When we look at loneliness this way, we can see that accepting/defusing our thoughts and feelings is part of the answer, but not the whole of it.The other part is to cultivate connection. Now we could cultivate connection with other people, but it may not be possible in some situations, or we may choose not to. If we don’t or can’t cultivate that connection with other people, we can cultivate it with ourselves, through self-compassion, self-nurture, self-development.Or we can create that connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport.Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important.Hope this helps in some way. All the best,Cheers,Russ www.actmindfully.com.auwww.thehappinesstrap.com From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of RandySent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 8:43 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: loneliness > Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> think will generally solve the loneliness problem.You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd sayyou're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Humanare social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Areyou going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seekfriends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't seeyou doing that. Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. -R.

[Guest guest]

Hi Merlin,

IMO, a positive, active response to something that drains the life out of us (loneliness) is not a control strategy. An avoidance response would be one, however. Cultivating connection is a positive thing to do to combat loneliness. Avoiding people and sinking into despair is not--I've spent most of the last decade doing just that and am just now actively pursuing connection with others.

Notice all the action adverbs and verbs: Yours--actively cultivating, active response; from Russ--create that connection, create a meaningful and life-enhancing connection; from me--actively pursuing connection, thing to do to combat loneliness. If you look at how you are talking to others and yourself and you find your sentences filled with positive action verbs toward your values, I think you are in "enhancing your life" mode and not in "control mode".

Re your question on relaxation vs. acceptance: Isn't it possible to do relaxation exercises and still get along with ACT? My thought is that relaxation and relaxation exercises are compatible with ACT, but they are not necessary to it. For me, setting some time aside for deliberate relaxation is like beautiful music playing in the background of my life, but it's up to me to act according to my values whether or not the music is on or off.

Helena

RE: Re: loneliness

I think of loneliness as being, at its core, a state of disconnection.

And this disconnectedness can happen even while we have social interaction with others; thus the common saying ‘I was so lonely in that marriage’; or the unpleasant experience of disconnection that we’ve all had when we’re with someone physically but they’re ‘not really present’.

In this state of disconnection, unpleasant thoughts and feelings arise, and we tend to call this experience ‘loneliness’.

When we look at loneliness this way, we can see that accepting/defusing our thoughts and feelings is part of the answer, but not the whole of it.

The other part is to cultivate connection. Now we could cultivate connection with other people, but it may not be possible in some situations, or we may choose not to. If we don’t or can’t cultivate that connection with other people, we can cultivate it with ourselves, through self-compassion, self-nurture, self-development.

Or we can create that connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport.

Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important.

Hope this helps in some way.

All the best,

Cheers,

Russ

www.actmindfully.com.au

www.thehappinesstrap.com

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of RandySent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 8:43 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: loneliness

> Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> think will generally solve the loneliness problem.You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd sayyou're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Humanare social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Areyou going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seekfriends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't seeyou doing that. Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. -R.

[Guest guest]

Straight to the crux of the matter, as usual, Kate! We see an example of innately needing connection in the sad stories of babies' "failure to thrive" when they don't have caring connections with their caregivers in early life--both in human beings and other primates.

Helena

Re: loneliness

> Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> think will generally solve the loneliness problem.You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd sayyou're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Humanare social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Areyou going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seekfriends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't seeyou doing that. Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. -R.

[Guest guest]

I definitely think that it is inherent in humans to feel lonely without human connection. Almost no one is totally disconnected, however. Prisoners in solitary confinement come to mind, and yet they have the "connection" of having their food brought to them. I enjoy connecting with my co-workers and various people I run into while shopping, etc., but when I am home alone, I can feel lonely. And I am finally OK with feeling lonely at times, because I am making an effort to expand my social connections--I'm not allowing my loneliness to consume me or identify me. I was actually more lonely when I was married (toward the end), so your point is well taken. But to have NO social connections (in the broadest sense, including not rubbing elbows with strangers) would be devastating to any human being, IMO.

Helena

Re: loneliness

I don't think anyone was saying that, and I know I specifically said "that isn't to say one shouldn't take action"I think he was more eluding to what Russ said, that there are millions of people out there who do have friends/spouses, etc, and still feel lonely...and that if you feel like you "need" these things to feel happy, or you "should" have them, it will obviously cause emotional distress when you don't have them..What you seem to be suggesting that because humans are social creatures, that it is inherent in humans to feel lonely without human connection? > > > Finding friends and a partner and then being with them I don't> > think will generally solve the loneliness problem.> > You may feel I over-generalized in my prior post, but I'd say> you're over-generalizing wildly in the opposite direction. Human> are social beings. Many shy persons do in fact want companionship.> Will it keep them from feeling lonely in all circumstances? No. Are> you going to tell someone who says they're lonely not to seek> friends or other society if they wish to? Somehow I can't see> you doing that. > > Not trying to argue - just pointing out it's OK to be human. > > -R.>