Guest guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 In a message dated 6/18/2004 11:39:25 AM Central Daylight Time, frances.roberts@... writes: >start finding ways of differentiating the neg. masculine from >the more helpful, feeling masculine. Hi Frances, Yes, and I thought it was interesting that in one dream I was chasing (?) the black man away from my campsite and in the other dream the black man was escorting me and vouching for me and assisting me in all sorts of ways. That goes along with your idea of the neg. masc vs the helpful masc. Also in a dream that I had the same night as the one where I was chasing the shadow(?) I dreamt about a veterinarian (healer of the anima(l)?) and his website that featured a Conflict of Rules file. If I consider that the Black Man might have been Shadow Saturnian/Jehovah-type archetypal energy, then perhaps I was chasing the rule-maker away rather than trying to catch him or following him into the wilderness. And in the next dream I was experiencing the helpful structured energy that kept me going even when I screwed up. >did you know that the body has two sides - >left side is feminine and right side is masculine Yes, and I thought it was significant that I was on the left side of the road, tracking down the feminine in the dark. Lots of feminine symbols there. And I nearly got to her, too! LOL >And let's not overlook the role of the Daimon, that mysterious, perhaps >immutable daimon which informs the unfolding of a person's fate. If he is >your Daimon, the black man may be asserting his presence in your psyche. I first read about this in Hillman's " The Soul's Code " and I gotta admit, it was scary reading for me. If my Daimon is Saturnian and I'm a conflicted iconoclast, whoa, there could be some fireworks! I've always thought of myself as a " good girl " and someone who colors within the lines, and yet, when it comes right down to it, I generally go my own way. Not necessarily with rebellion or violence but just go when it really matters to me. >I have Pluto Opposite my Sun Saturn is opposite my Sun (Scorpio) - and my moon, Mars, Venus and Mercury! - in my birth chart so it seems likely there'd be a tug of war there every now and then. I'm still trying to absorb the info I got from having my chart done. Astrology is pretty deep going when I try to get into it. >My creative output has increased, I have two short stories published >and begun working on my Green Man book. Pluto is my Daimon and is providing >the fuel to get all this creative output produced. Congrats! As an aspiring writer I can appreciate the effort this sort of thing takes. Wonderful! Well, if the Black Man in my dreams is indeed Saturn, I need to do some more research on just what that signifies. Thanks for the input. Namasté Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Sam & Kione -- I have been following your discussion about the image of the dream with the black man and enjoyed listening in. At the same time, I am reading The Horned God and came upon Whitmont¹s description of the four main masculine archetypes. It seems synchronous, so I thought to share this with you both: 1. Mars, the Roman god of war (and his Greek counterpart Ares), embodies initiating, active energy, courage, determination, desirousness and impulse toward both work and aggression, including brutality, recklessness and destructive hostility and violence .... 2. Eros is a male phallic deity, an aggressive hunter, he represents the urge to connect, to touch and to possess. He motivates the human quest for humanity, for the beautiful, the good and the divine ....He is a son of the Great Mother .... 3. Saturn-Jehovah ... Concretizes, creates and preserves by establishing limits, order and law. He is maker and ruler, the jealous, sick or wounded king or crippled craftsman; ever striving for perfection, he suffers from and tends to deny the flaws of his creations and of existence as it is. 4. Logos...The Wise Man ...logos carrier, magician, Seer; Tiresias, Merlin etc...(who corresponds to the feminine Medium type)..... In the dance, Frances -- Frances Your Words at Work Writing communications that work Tel: /Fax: Cell: Email: frances.roberts@... Website: http://www.yourwordsatwork.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Sam: In my experience, these night dreams often have some psychopomp guiding me into Shadow material. When I think about that, I often have to look at my defenses and start finding ways of differentiating the neg. masculine from the more helpful, feeling masculine. This material is so embedded, I sometimes have coax it out and make peace with my own defense strategies before I can connect with the feminine. As in your dream about switching to the other side of the road -- did you know that the body has two sides - left side is feminine and right side is masculine corresponding the the opposite sides of the brain, left side to right brain, right side to left brain, suggesting there's a body/mind pattern at work in your dream. And let's not overlook the role of the Daimon, that mysterious, perhaps immutable daimon which informs the unfolding of a person's fate. If he is your Daimon, the black man may be asserting his presence in your psyche. When that happens for me, I can experience him as ruthless, tyrannical and driving. That's until I engage and connect my Daimon with my creative side and some creative output, and then he is satisfied. Still it sometimes means sleepless nights with my mind travelling at a thousand miles and hour over eons which in turn means lots of physical exercise, usually Kundalini yoga and doing it until I drop. People call me a Mack Truck! I sometimes call him a " bastard " in my best Cleese voice. But we can work together because I've begun working on my shadow and my defenses. A related astrological note - I have Pluto Opposite my Sun for seven years already!!! And I am only just glimpsing the potential of working with this aspect. My creative output has increased, I have two short stories published and begun working on my Green Man book. Pluto is my Daimon and is providing the fuel to get all this creative output produced. Just some thoughts to share. In the dance, Frances > frances.roberts@... writes: > >> 3. Saturn-Jehovah ... Concretizes, creates and preserves by establishing >> limits, order and law. > > Hmmm. Thanks, Frances. I haven't mentioned other dreams in the series but > there was one in which I was going against the conventional order of things by > driving on the left side of the road (at night) and keeping an eye out for > someone as I drove along. Just as I noticed a feminine figure walking along > the > road ahead of me and I was intending to offer her a ride, a car came from the > other direction and I had to quickly move back over to the right side. In > this context, this definition of Saturn certainly fits in. Not to mention > that > Saturn is a brand of car! LOL > > I still have a great deal of confusion over Saturn as The Black Man and the > black men in my other dreams, though. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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