Re: Best Bet Diet & The Bird Flu

[Guest guest]

Hi !

How about salmon and lean cuts of beef?

All the best,

Dudley

http://profiles.yahoo.com/dudley_delany

[Guest guest]

,

I have been thinking about the same thing. I don't think it's silly.

If you can get and tolerate range fed beef or bison, that would be the

best alternative.

It's not a good option for me, but if it was, that's what I'd do.

(Although, I will get it when I can.)

If and when it hits North America, I plan to eat more fish, lean beef

and lean pork for awhile. I've been adding more of them lately

anyway, because I'm so tired of chicken, having been eating it almost

exclusively for several years. (I've been on a version of the BBD

since about 1996.) Eating grocery store lean beef and pork will be a

deviation from the diet to some extent, but it's still Paleo, and, if

you get only the leanest varieties, ie round steak, sirloin, etc., the

saturated fat content isn't too bad according to Loren Cordain, who

Ashton Embry has use to base the diet to a large extent. At least

it's the best alternative under these circumstances, in my opinion.

Carol

>

> As most of you are aware I've been on the Best Bet Diet for about a

> month or so. I've lost almost 20 lbs!! But I have a concern and

it

> seems a little odd. What about the Bird Flu??? I'm planning not

to

> eat poultry once the Bird Flu hits Canada, Mexico, or the US.

Anyone

> have any suggestions on what I can eat for meat other than poultry

> and stick to the BBD?

>

> I know, sounds a little silly, but seriously.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> it once or twice a week is too much?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

~~~I know I'm not Dudley, but even Swank allows lean beef once a week,

and Ashton based his fat recommendations on Swank. (Just the

saturated fat, not any other part of the Swank diet.) And, he limits

salmon to some extent, due to the high fat content.

Don't forget about the mercury problems in fish. I meant to mention

that in my last post on this. The only salmon I eat anymore is what

comes directly from Alaska. There are also charts easily found on the

web, showing which fish are least likely to have high amounts of

mercury. The smaller the fish, the better.

If you haven't read the Mercola site, that's a good place for

information on various health subjects, and he sells certified Alaskan

salmon, but it's a little too expensive for me.

www.mercola.com

Carol

[Guest guest]

>

> Even if infected when cooked the bacteria and or germs will die.

> Regards,

> Tom

>

~~~~Then how is it that people are getting it from eating chickens?

Are they really eating them raw?

Carol

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I have been watching the news stories to see if people were getting it

from eating poultry and one article, weeks ago, said they were. I

suppose that could have been wrong, but given the fact that they're

making the provision that poultry be " properly cooked " , I will assume

it's transferred through eating the poultry, just as salmonella and

other diseases are transferred that way. I have chronic low WBC, so I

won't be taking any chances with this, once it hits the U.S.

Carol

>

> They are not getting it from eating the chicken. They get it from

being in

> contact either with infected chickens or other infected humans.

The reason

> that it is such a concern is that it can be passed from the bird to

a human.

> This is rather rare.

> Regards,

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

>

Isn't this one of those things, where if you touch the

meat (before cooking) and then touch your nose (eyes, mouth

maybe ears too)

you could get infected?

Even if you don't, you still may have to clean up the

counter where you began preparing it. If you use a sponge

to clean up the area the sponge would have to be discarded.

> Tom,

> I have been watching the news stories to see if people were

getting it

> from eating poultry and one article, weeks ago, said they were. I

> suppose that could have been wrong, but given the fact that

they're

> making the provision that poultry be " properly cooked " , I will

assume

> it's transferred through eating the poultry, just as salmonella

and

> other diseases are transferred that way. I have chronic low WBC,

so I

> won't be taking any chances with this, once it hits the U.S.

> Carol

>

> >

> > They are not getting it from eating the chicken. They get it

from

> being in

> > contact either with infected chickens or other infected

humans.

> The reason

> > that it is such a concern is that it can be passed from the bird

to

> a human.

> > This is rather rare.

> > Regards,

> > Tom

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

Some cuts of beef are very low in fat. You could

probably have beef everyday if it is just the fat

content you are concerned about. (I think the Swank

info on beef is very dated.)

http://www.beefitswhatsfordinner.com/nutrition/leancuts.asp

Some fish is very high in mercury. Some isn't.

This is one site on mercury.

http://www.gotmercury.org/

___________________________________________________________

> > it once or twice a week is too much?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

> ~~~I know I'm not Dudley, but even Swank allows lean beef once a

week,

> and Ashton based his fat recommendations on Swank. (Just the

> saturated fat, not any other part of the Swank diet.) And, he

limits

> salmon to some extent, due to the high fat content.

>

> Don't forget about the mercury problems in fish. I meant to

mention

> that in my last post on this. The only salmon I eat anymore is

what

> comes directly from Alaska. There are also charts easily found on

the

> web, showing which fish are least likely to have high amounts of

> mercury. The smaller the fish, the better.

>

> If you haven't read the Mercola site, that's a good place for

> information on various health subjects, and he sells certified

Alaskan

> salmon, but it's a little too expensive for me.

> www.mercola.com

> Carol

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >

> Isn't this one of those things, where if you touch the

> meat (before cooking) and then touch your nose (eyes, mouth

> maybe ears too)

> you could get infected?

>

> Even if you don't, you still may have to clean up the

> counter where you began preparing it. If you use a sponge

> to clean up the area the sponge would have to be

discarded.

>

~~~Yes, that's the kind of thing I am thinking and why I won't take

any chances, I don't care how many chicken growers go out of

business. (I might eat it, if I was healthier and could more

reasonably risk it, but not with this immune system I'm stuck with at

the moment.)

Carol

[Guest guest]

>

> I think the whole concept of eating meat is wrong. When my 95

year old great-grandmother moved in with my grandparents, she was

surprised that they ate meat everyday, much less with every meal. I

think this is a modern excess that stems from prosperity. We're a

nation of gluttony and obesity. It's time to make some dietary

decisions based on health, not desire (unless the desire is for good

health)!

>

~~~If you mean simply that we eat too much meat, I wouldn't argue

with you there. I don't think it's true of me, because I don't eat

TOO much meat, but I know that many people on the SAD do.

~~~But, you're getting into the idea that vegetarianism is the way

to go, you've touched on a subject with seemingly almost no bottom,

and full of emotionalism. (Especially on the side of the

vegetarian.) I've dug into that at great depth and did finally

reach the bottom of it, and no matter how many arguments vegetarians

come up with, I have found much to negate them. (And, I don't even

like meat, I only eat it because I know I need it.) One of the

favorite arguments of avid vegetarians is that our gastric system is

meant to be vegetarian, not carnivorous. However, neither is

correct, we are omnivores, which means we were meant to eat both

meat and produce. That's about as far as I want to get into the

VERY touchy subject.

Carol

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I think the whole concept of eating meat is wrong. When my 95

> year old great-grandmother moved in with my grandparents, she was

> surprised that they ate meat everyday, much less with every meal.

I

> think this is a modern excess that stems from prosperity. We're a

> nation of gluttony and obesity. It's time to make some dietary

> decisions based on health, not desire (unless the desire is for

good

> health)!

> >

>

>

> ~~~If you mean simply that we eat too much meat, I wouldn't argue

> with you there. I don't think it's true of me, because I don't

eat

> TOO much meat, but I know that many people on the SAD do.

>

> ~~~But, you're getting into the idea that vegetarianism is the way

> to go, you've touched on a subject with seemingly almost no

bottom,

> and full of emotionalism. (Especially on the side of the

> vegetarian.) I've dug into that at great depth and did finally

> reach the bottom of it, and no matter how many arguments

vegetarians

> come up with, I have found much to negate them. (And, I don't

even

> like meat, I only eat it because I know I need it.) One of the

> favorite arguments of avid vegetarians is that our gastric system

is

> meant to be vegetarian, not carnivorous. However, neither is

> correct, we are omnivores, which means we were meant to eat both

> meat and produce. That's about as far as I want to get into the

> VERY touchy subject.

> Carol

>

[Guest guest]

I was on the Swank diet for a couple of years, and then on the BBD

since then, (without grains).

Swank himself allows beef after the first year on the diet. There

is only 2-5 grams of saturated fat in 3 oz. of top sirloin. You

could have that once a day and come nowhere near hitting the 15 gram

mark. Or you could eat twice that many oz. and still be fine.

When I was on Swank, I didn't eat beef at all. Only ate white

poultry meat. My sat. fat grams per day were next to nothing.

Adding even 6 oz. of lean beef a day would not violate the 15 gram

limit.

If you can get free range beef, all the better, because it's even

lower in sat fat.

Carol

> General comments to whoever:

>

> Regarding the Swank Diet:

>

> http://swankmsdiet.org/index.php/diet/about/

>

> I heard once that the saturated fat content of the

> diet was made to be 15 grams because few could tolerate

> less than that. If one wanted to go down to 5 grams of

> saturated fat per day (perhaps for 6 months to see if

> it would help your condition) you probably wouldn't be

> able to have beef.

>

> Whatever diet you're on requires you to maintain it.

> If it is super-restrictive but you can't maintain it

> it has no value to you.

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm talking about the excessive amounts people eat here. I'm a raw

vegan, but I don't want to argue that point with you. My diet has

improved my health by leaps and bounds, so no amount of studies you've

read will convince me otherwise. We all do what we feel is best for

us.

>

~~~I agree, I just didn't want to see a vegetarian/vegan vs meat eater

argument break out, because I've seen enough of those and they ALWAYS

end badly. In fact, if I remember correctly, there was one here

several years ago. My diet improved my health by leaps and bounds

too, but I was not vegan, so there are many good diets. I think, if

we just eliminate transfats, processed foods and probably grains and

high carbs, we'd all improve whether we're vegan or meat eaters.

(Well, unless we are suffering from a bacteria and/or virus that has

already got the best of us, and then it takes more than diet in some

cases, from what I've seen.)

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

" ~~~Yes, that's the kind of thing I am thinking and why I won't take

any chances, I don't care how many chicken growers go out of

business. (I might eat it, if I was healthier and could more

reasonably risk it, but not with this immune system I'm stuck with at

the moment.) "

I chose a different approach, as the hygiene hypothesis appeals to my

personal logic. I figured that my immune system might have attacked my

myelin because it had no natural enemies to keep it busy...so I deliberately

expose

myself to lots of immune system challenges, eg I don't avoid people with

colds & flu, I kiss & nuzzle & cuddle my dogs & cats & donkeys & sheep &

cows, I drink untreated well water, I don't always wear gloves for gardening

or

when I'm tending newborn lambs.

In winter my chickens live in a large coop which they share with occasional

wild bird

visitors, and they free-range during summer. I eat their eggs & meat; I

clean their nesting boxes & refill their feeders & waterers and when a

chicken dies, I don't hesitate to pick it up with my bare hands & bury it in

the compost heap.

My belief is that exposure to weaker strains of bacteria & viruses -

including

chicken flu - will prime my system to produce antibodies which will protect

me against related, possibly more deadly strains.

So far,so good - I'm 54, I've been doing this for over 15 years & haven't

had another MS exacerbation (I also eat well including daily helpings of

home-raised beef, lamb, chicken, turkey etc & do at least an

hour/day of heavy physical exercise). Haven't had a cold or flu in more

than 10 years and tho' I get many cuts & scrapes working around the farm &

have had four abdominal surgeries, I haven't had an infection of any sort

for so long that I can't remember the last one. I had a complete physical

about four years ago and passed with flying colours.

Only time will tell which approach is best for each individual PwMS.

F :-)

[Guest guest]

and ,

I agree with both of you to a great extent, but like , I don't

live around animals.

My immune system is VERY strong about fighting most things. I

haven't had a cold in about 12 years, and before 2002, I hadn't had

the flu since 1978. (Had a very minor case of flu in 2002 that I

caught from my daughter.) I 'never' catch the things that go around

all the time that others do. BUT, I have had pneumonia 3 times and

almost died from it the last time in 1993. I finally figured out

why I never get some things when I had a LOT of immune system blood

work done. I'm very high in the killer blood complements that kill

common colds and common flu, but low in the complements that

kill/guard against some of the more uncommon viruses and bacterias

etc. That is why I'm a little worried about bird flu. It probably

fits into the uncommon category.

But, as far as day to day living, I am alot like . I don't

use anti-bacterial soaps etc., because I know they're not good. I

WAS using them, until I started reading all the things against them

on the Mercola site several years ago. In fact, I had been noticing

that my hands were always getting very small unexplained cuts on

them, and then read at mercola that the anti-bacterial soaps strip

off the good bacteria that keeps the skin strong and free of little

skin tears.

When you learn more about your individual immunities, by testing,

then you become more aware of what you need to avoid and what won't

be a problem for you. So, I won't tempt fate, by exposing myself to

a virus that may be the very kind I know my immune system isn't up

to handling. I'm not paranoid about it and it doesn't slop over

into things like worrying about the common cold, but I try to be as

scientific about things as I can be, where this kind of thing is

concerned. (I do believe that belief and mental attitude play a big

part as well.)

, as far as vitamins are concerned, I really do agree with you

that it's MUCH better to get them from food. I used to be a big

supplement taker, but now I only take those supplements that I know

I am deficient in, or that I need to treat a specific health

concern. (Like taking the Lyme herbs right now and also using

probiotics, because of my intestinal problems. And taking cod liver

oil to reduce inflamaation, since this is an inflammatory disease.)

I no longer take a B complex, or A or anything like that. Those

things I getting from a good diet. (One of the reasons I know I

need to eat meats. They have nutrients we don't get any other way.)

I DO believe supplementation can be bad. When we're sick, our whole

body chemistry is out of balance. It can cause us to be deficient

in some things but OVER in other things. In the past, I have taken

certain vitamins and then later found out the I was making a

condition worse doing it. It's even doubly so with things like

Armour thyroid. I know a lot of people indiscriminately taking that

and creating a cortisol problem. Everyone seems to think they have

low thyroid these days. I even had a doctor put me on thyroid just

because I was on the low end of normal. The next thing I knew I had

a very high cortisol level, which is VERY unhealthy. (Will cause

bone loss, for one.) Another doctor took me off the thyroid, which

put me back in the normal range in both areas.

I think the very best thing to do is know your own body/system/blood

work etc. Have testing done and do things according to your own

body chemistry. It takes doing a lot of reading and research on

what you find out from testing, but it's necessary, if you want to

take supplements, I feel. It's really a very big understatement to

say, 'we're all differen't.

Carol

> ,

>

> I have to agree with you to some degree. We kill everything in

our

> environment that we think will harm us. I also feel we lose the

> ability to fight these things off if we're not exposed to them

Ever

> notice how the cleanest house has the sickest kids, and the

parents

> clean it more only to find their kids get sicker.

>

> However, I do feel that there are certain viruses/bacteria out

there

> that might be too much for certain people, Like me. I work with

> computer graphics all day. I live downtown, in a suburb of

Boston, far

> from chickens, and cows. Not being around animals as much as you

would

> probably put me at risk of catching the Bird Flu and not being

able to

> fight it off. My wife's parents own a farm in Western, MA., where

most

> of her family grew up. We visit them as much as we can on the

> weekends, but we don't know anything about farming. Althought,

I'm

> pretty good at horseback riding. I try as much as I can.

>

> The diet thing also puzzles me. I've been doing quite well the

past 3

> years. Eating dairy, eggs, beans, gluten, coffee (with loads of

> sugar,) and Ice cream, to name a few. No supplements other than a

> multi vitamin, if I remembered to take it. Other than gaining a

few

> pounds here and there I've done quite well. One new lesion in

three

> years.

>

> Sometimes I wonder if this Best Bet Diet might have an adverse

effect

> on me. > Another thing, is it just me or is it always best to get

our vitamins

> the natural way and not through supplements? Isn't

supplementation -

> in some cases - bad for you?

>

> Sorry to go on and on like this. I guess something happened this

> morning that got me going. I wonder if it's the Avonex talking.

> That's what I'd like to blame it on.

>

> Humbly,

>

>

>

I figured that my immune system might have attacked

> > my

> > myelin because it had no natural enemies to keep it busy...so I

> > deliberately

> > expose

> > myself to lots of immune system challenges, eg I don't avoid

people

> > with

[Guest guest]

Russ,

Since your " some of us " post was posted on my response to and

, I will assume you were including me in the 'some of us' who

need to be educated. I'm going to treat this as one of those cases I

recently read about, where 50% of the time emails are misconstrued,

misunderstood and taken the wrong way, so I won't take it as an insult

that you're, in essence, pointing out what you perceive to be my/our

ignorance.

I've heard that side of the avian flu pandemic issue before, and I

agree with it to a great extent. (Just about everything is political

these days.) But at this point it's all only rhetoric. We will

really know nothing until after the fact.

This is not something I have spent nearly as much time thinking about

as I have written about on this forum. (And being a writer, I'm sure

you have a lot more patience for reading LONG diatribes than I do, so

I admit I only skimmed that article until I saw that it was something

I'd read before, and then I quit reading.)

Someone makes a comment or asks a question on a forum and some of us

reply, based on a hypothetical case. In the hypothetical case that

there is a bird flu problem, I would still do what I was going to do

in the first place, so I guess none of it matters too much to me and I

haven't learned much! :-)

Carol

>

>

>

> Hi gang

>

> I think some of us can learn something from an article I've posted

> called " Avian Flu Fright " on my personal website. The direct link is

> http://milesbooks.com/wb/pages/more-health-issues/avian-flu-

fright.php

> <http://milesbooks.com/wb/pages/more-health-issues/avian-flu-

fright.php>

>

> ~Hugs~ Russ:))

>