idolatry

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/18/04 9:56:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

omagramps410@... writes:

Dear ,

If I remember my Jung correctly, any experience of an archetype is

numinous.Its affect therefore will show a remarkable difference in the

experience.

Besides, where do you thing our ideas of G-d come from? The unconscious, the

collective unconscious deals in archetypes, just as the personal unconscious

deals with complexes.

The Imago Dei is an archetype of which we then make our own image.

Toni

----- Well said, Toni!

love

ao

[Guest guest]

,

I cannot endorse your new meaning for the word " idolatry " . " This will lead to

many wrong interpretations because Idolatry to most people means " making

something or someone " your highest value. Not " grave images " but " money " " power "

" fame " ., or some human being are becoming our false gods.

In other words anything we want more than " anything'. I think you need to find

the right word as much as possible because we have enough problems with our

constantly changing language.

It is hard enough for us trying to understand each other without changing the

actual meaning of words.

Genuine spirituality is a hard term to define. We each have a different image of

the Image of G-d, and one can't very easily tell people their image of the

Imago Dei is false.

Furthermore in my opinion, you are beginning to sound like one of those " the end

of the world is coming " people. We didn't invent this cosmos, I doubt we can

destroy it.

Toni

Original Message -----

From:

To: JUNG-FIRE

Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 4:30 PM

Subject: idolatry

>>We do not know " who we are " That is to my mind

what life is all about. The learning process of

" whose we are " and " who we are. " <<

--I agree. Narratives relating to " who we are " are at

the center of much of what's happening in the world.

>>To my way of thinking that is the whole problem

of the human race.It will not suddenly disappear.<<

--But it will, rapidly, become such a serious issue

that it can no longer be ignored by the majority. Many

issues follow that pattern, they go unresolved for

generations until there is a crisis, and then the

culture jumps to a new plateau. The process is

happening at an accelerating rate, which is one reason

there is such a pervasive feeling that we are

approaching a " judgment day " . For centuries, wars were

local events. Now they are much less so.

But if there were no hope for change, I'd still work

on transcending what I see as idolatry. Idolatry, to

me, is the substitution of human feeling for the outer

form of feeling without the inner movement. That's

probably an idiosyncratic use of the word, but it

seems right to me. Praying to a stone idol is an

archaic form. Praying to God to help you smite your

enemies is another, more relevant form. Enforcing

dress codes to distinguish one group from another

" contaminating " group is another (I'm talking about

social disapproval toward those who violate the code,

not those who choose it freely). That sort of thing

will end when people realize their gods won't spare

them the consequences of war, when all sides are

shamed by their own extremists and feel abandoned by

God. Then, genuine spirituality can begin to fill the

vacuum left by the toppling of sacred cows. It's

harsh, but it's how things seem to work.

__________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

If I remember my Jung correctly, any experience of an archetype is numinous.Its

affect therefore will show a remarkable difference in the experience.

Besides, where do you thing our ideas of G-d come from? The unconscious, the

collective unconscious deals in archetypes, just as the personal unconscious

deals with complexes.

The Imago Dei is an archetype of which we then make our own image.

Toni

idolatry

>>I would call it scapegoating rather than

idolatry.<<

--I think shadow projection was the best term offered.

I also like the definition of idolatry as the

reification of an archetype. Since literal idolatry,

as in worshipping graven images, is not an issue in

modern times, the practical definition could include a

wide range of social rituals and habits of perception.

The central issue that I think should be emphasized

continually is projection of the group's disavowed

traits onto other groups. It's the poison that

everyone is forced to breathe, which distorts identity

and the flow of spirit. It's also becoming more and

more toxic to the world, and can no longer be ignored

safely.