Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 If I remember correctly , to hate means to wish someone didn't exist, at least that is what I was taught. If the enemy is about to kill you,you would wish him not to exist, wouldn't you? And you would kill him? Or you wouldn't be close to him. So let us not be too gentle with our words. Hate is hate. We are not " putting him down " like we do a suffering animal . We needlessly use weasel words and consciousness of what we are doing. We fight our presumed enemy as we fight Satan so to call him (the enemy) evil is exactly what we are doing. Let us at least be honest about our actions. Or settle for : " excuse me, I like you very much, but you see I have to kill you or you will kill me, and I would rather you didn't do that. " give me a break Dan, there is nothing objective about taking your weapon, pointing it and firing zat another human being. In our favor we do not kill in a rational state. If we are in danger our instincts are working and we are afraid and " psyched up " and we are not very conscious. How could anyone kill in cold blood? Toni Re: Digest Number 1528 Dear , wrote: > >>It is a mistake to pity your enemy until he is > vanquished.<< > > --Pity may not be the proper emotion, for an enemy or > anyone else. Empathy is a more important emotion: the > ability not only to understand how an enemy sees > himself (important also for strategic reasons) but to > see the fatal flaw in humanity which you and he share, > that led him down his path and you down yours. > Understanding that, even if you must kill your enemy, > you need not hate him. > Agreed. I didn't suggest that you should hate him. > > Whatever you kill, you become. If you love your enemy, > you will not have to act out that formula > unconsciously because you will not be repressing your > identification with him in the unconscious. Hate an > enemy, and your unconscious will contaminate your life > with its identification that your ego refused to > accept. Bin Laden was not always " evil " . He became > dangeorus after being tempted by alcohol and women and > other " western sins " . Then, unable to forgive himself > or to individuate from his family's beliefs and his > position in the pecking order, he became wrathful and > identified with a dualistic deity. I never said that bin Laden was " evil, " either (it may be necessary to portray him as such to the public, but that is not the same thing). Bin Laden is an enemy of my own. By " enemy, " I mean simply one who would do us harm. I think that that is a fairly objective category that avoids projection. There are, always, people who would do us (whoever you consider " us " to be) harm. It's not necessary to demonize the enemy, except for political or military purposes as above. > Many Christians in > America will do the same, although hopefully with less > explosive violence. What we reject in ourselves leads > us to attempt to control others, and there can be no > resolution as long as enemies project their > unconscious empathy for each other and the dark side > of their gods. We become Bin Laden when we develop > that allergy to unconscious contents which makes us > feel we have to attack some external opponent rather > than understanding the systemic equation in which we > are mutually embedded. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Dear Toni, Do you think that Grant and Lee hated each other? Do you think that one would have killed the other if the opportunity had arisen? It is quite possible to kill in cold blood. People do it all the time. Professional assassins and police sharpshooters do it. Executioners do it. No rage required - in fact, I should think it would get in the way. Regards, Dan Regards, Dan " toni.toni2 " wrote: > If I remember correctly , to hate means to wish someone didn't exist, at least that is what I was taught. > If the enemy is about to kill you,you would wish him not to exist, wouldn't you? And you would kill him? Or you wouldn't be close to him. > > So let us not be too gentle with our words. Hate is hate. We are not " putting him down " like we do a suffering animal . We needlessly use weasel words and consciousness of what we are doing. > > We fight our presumed enemy as we fight Satan so to call him (the enemy) evil is exactly what we are doing. > > Let us at least be honest about our actions. Or settle for : > " excuse me, I like you very much, but you see I have to kill you or you will kill me, and I would rather you didn't do that. " > > give me a break > Dan, there is nothing objective about taking your weapon, pointing it and firing zat another human being. > > In our favor we do not kill in a rational state. If we are in danger our instincts are working and we are afraid and " psyched up " and we are not very conscious. How could anyone kill in cold blood? > Toni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Dear Dan, Ordinary soldiers are not trained to be cold blooded killers. And those who are ,seem to me to be lacking in consciousness if their blood is really " cold " I can tell you about indoctrinating marines to shoot to kill.... Dan ,can you see yourself doing it " in cold blood " ? I can't And as for executioners...well, I would look for another job.-In fact in my world he wouldn't exist I do not personally believe we can harm others in " cold blood " We do it when we lose our cool and are not in control. I couldn't even spank my kids through a cloth diaper and pants. I di it a couple of times but only when I lost my temper.My husband was useless at that task too. We had to find non violent ways to discipline. Yes, my husband had to kill the enemy, but he was at least three thousand feet away and could not see them. But doing it still was harmful, however much it was his sworn " duty " . It helped that enemy planes were trying to shoot him down at the time because then it became self defense. Save me from cold-blooded killers. What happened to their humanity? Police are defending others, and that is different. Toni ---- Original Message ----- From: Dan Watkins To: JUNG-FIRE Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Digest Number 1528 Dear Toni, Do you think that Grant and Lee hated each other? Do you think that one would have killed the other if the opportunity had arisen? It is quite possible to kill in cold blood. People do it all the time. Professional assassins and police sharpshooters do it. Executioners do it. No rage required - in fact, I should think it would get in the way. Regards, Dan Regards, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 In a message dated 3/1/04 12:39:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, dwatkins5@... writes: It is quite possible to kill in cold blood. People do it all the time. Professional assassins and police sharpshooters do it. Executioners do it. No rage required - in fact, I should think it would get in the way. Dan, what is yr pt here? Such people are 'dead' already themselves, in total denial of the great gift of life? Sometimes u amaze .........are u really sincere in what u say? are u condoning or am I missing something? worried ao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Dear Toni, " toni.toni2 " wrote: > Dear Dan, > > Ordinary soldiers are not trained to be cold blooded killers. And those who are ,seem to me to be lacking in consciousness if their blood is really " cold " I can tell you about indoctrinating marines to shoot to kill.... > > Dan ,can you see yourself doing it " in cold blood " ? Yes. Under the right conditions, with a song in my heart and a smile on my lips, and a peaceful sleep afterwards. The caveman instincts live in me, too. > I can't > And as for executioners...well, I would look for another job.-In fact in my world he wouldn't exist Ah.... but I was talking about *the* world, not your world or other cities in speech. > > > I do not personally believe we can harm others in " cold blood " We do it when we lose our cool and are not in control. I couldn't even spank my kids through a cloth diaper and pants. I di it a couple of times but only when I lost my temper.My husband was useless at that task too. We had to find non violent ways to discipline. I would try to avoid punishing a child in anger myself. If revenge is best served cold, justice is too. (The only right way to execute a criminal is in cold blood.) > > > Yes, my husband had to kill the enemy, but he was at least three thousand feet away and could not see them. But doing it still was harmful, however much it was his sworn " duty " . It helped that enemy planes were trying to shoot him down at the time because then it became self defense. Why, I wonder, do we need these Christian rationalizations before we trust our best instincts? The soldier kills the enemy because it is necessary - because otherwise the enemy will attack and pillage his own. The only thing that's changed is the weapons, and you can blame that on technology - aka " progress. " > > > Save me from cold-blooded killers. What happened to their humanity? It is not lost.... what they do is within the " parameters " of humanity. No need for any apologies lately, btw. Regards, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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