Re: Digest Number 1529

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/2004 10:11:47 AM Central Standard Time,

frances.roberts@... writes:

>I have

>experiences that teach there is often more complexity to the psyche soma

>connection -- only the metaphor can heal what is at dis-ease. I'm a

>thinking/sensation type, so I have to let go of the analysis and let the

>metaphor have its way.

Hi Frances,

Me, too. I've come to strongly believe in the bodymind and putting my

thinking in a different place has been a very difficult thing to learn. My pain

issues have not been static and I'm trying to figure out what the varying

patterns suggest about my unconscious. It's an interesting journey.

Namasté

Sam

[Guest guest]

Hi Toni:

Just a footnote to this idea of pain coming and going and ending. And that

is, the body remembers. Most of us live in a strange dissociation through

denial and repression that numbs our body sensation of pain. So the pain

stays stored in the body and can cause problems years laterin the form of

physical illness. Accidents that cause bodily pain are not because we're

dumb or stupid, these accidents are often wake-up calls telling us we are

going off track, they function much like a nightmare.

I liked your differentiation between body and psyche, but I have

experiences that teach there is often more complexity to the psyche soma

connection -- only the metaphor can heal what is at dis-ease. I'm a

thinking/sensation type, so I have to let go of the analysis and let the

metaphor have its way. That's when the miracle happens.

In the dance,

Frances

On 3/2/04 5:01 AM, " JUNG-FIRE " <JUNG-FIRE >

wrote:

> The point is, these sensations, whether physical or psychic, have a purpose

> and when they've served that purpose, they should be let go. That is, we pull

> our hand back, tape our ankle, decide that the name caller is incorrect (or

> change our behavior in the case that they're right), forgive ourselves and

> resolve not to do the incorrect deed again. Then we go on. That's all pain,

> and

> with no suffering.

[Guest guest]

Hi Frances,

Yep, I agree Having just taken my second fall in a week, walking the dog, I seem

to be telling myself something more than " don't be clumsy " I fell down the

stares again recently, which up to the last few years never happened.

I have found a lot of truth too, in " imagining " I use it to pray for others or

when I think I can help my own health. Especially with coronary artery disease,

I imagine a teeth like machine going through my arteries and veins getting rid

of all that plaque, grabbing it and gobbling it up. Like the " packman " of old.

My daughter who lives always with some pain tries to ignore it and go on as if

she were in great shape. She won't listen when I try to explain that the energy

she uses to deny the pain could help her in other ways if she would just admit

once in a while she hurts. Now at 45 she seems to have gotten the message at

least with me, but she still wants to portray someone who has it " altogether "

and not needing sympathy or attention to her health.( as she did when she was a

teenager and really had bad " flare-ups " )

We are very different. When I get a pain I say " ouch " very loudly until someone

reacts. As soon as that happens I shut up, and try to deal with it. maybe I like

sympathy too much, but I want an acknowledgement from those near and dear that I

could use some support.Just wish the so called martyrs in my family and circle

would do the same . A friendly kiss, or hand on shoulder or " gee I am sorry you

feel badly " helps a lot. We need the physical touch and the knowledge of

support. Now ,when I am very ill or in a lot of pain, I shut up, because I don't

want anxiety building up in those around me. I have to bear my pain, I don't

want or cannot bear theirs too.I guess we all developed ways of coping with

pain.

Suffering on the other hand cannot usually be something one can communicate to

others so easily, It is much harder to put into words, and except for

professional help,when needed, I try to carry on. Unless of course someone

around me is causing it, and then I* have it out then and there.

I worked out my own system because I had to and because my mother was the martyr

type and it confused me when I was little. Later it just made me mad. I hate it

when people play games with their and my emotions instead of spitting whatever

it is, out.

Anyway, you are so right about ignored pain. For example I still get pains in my

right arm and hand from knitting so much years ago when I also had it,for so

long, and strong,but I wouldn't stop then although I even went to the doctor

because of it.a long time ago.. haven't picked up knitting needles for ages, but

that pain comes sometime " out of the blue " ( or the incident I already relayed

about having a back problem because I was so angry with the Pope and the Church.

Once that was out and admitted and gone, my back miraculously healed)

I've always wanted to do some of that esoteric " body work " but never found an

opportunity or someone to teach me.

Our auto insurance company has written letters of warning to Ray telling him to

warn me, that people who have a few slight accidents with tiny injuries in a

short space of time,are more prone to more. I used to have bouts of banging in

to everything for a while, especially when I was pregnant, and then for years on

end never have even a fender bender.

I usually don't bear pain gladly. I grab the first Tylenol or aspirin around

because I was told, I was defeating myself by refusing to give in to the pain,

there upon it would get worse and harder to treat. Doctors and I have argued

that out enough,since unfortunately the occasion came up often with the new

" self-medication they now do in many hospitals, and which I tended to ignore if

possible.. so I gave in.( happily) It is true.

It seems my body has a better memory than my head as I get older.

Toni

Re: Digest Number 1529

Hi Toni:

Just a footnote to this idea of pain coming and going and ending. And that

is, the body remembers. Most of us live in a strange dissociation through

denial and repression that numbs our body sensation of pain. So the pain

stays stored in the body and can cause problems years laterin the form of

physical illness. Accidents that cause bodily pain are not because we're

dumb or stupid, these accidents are often wake-up calls telling us we are

going off track, they function much like a nightmare.

I liked your differentiation between body and psyche, but I have

experiences that teach there is often more complexity to the psyche soma

connection -- only the metaphor can heal what is at dis-ease. I'm a

thinking/sensation type, so I have to let go of the analysis and let the

metaphor have its way. That's when the miracle happens.

In the dance,

Frances