Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Posted January 15, 2006 Dear lama You wrote: " If you have mental nightmares created by thinking... The real solution might be to stop thinking.... " My experience is that " stop thinking " is hopeless Any other ideas? T -- True or false? If dreams are scaring you... real solution is to wake up! " working on dreams " while still being lost in dreams... may not be the real solution! If you have mental nightmares created by thinking... the real solution might be to stop thinking.... to become awake to that which is prior to and beyond thinking... " working on thoughts " while being lost in thoughts may not be the real lasting solution! True or false? What is your experience? Quote
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 i find that the work doesn't " work " for me. maybe this is why? In a message dated 9/14/2006 9:56:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, adithya_comming@... writes: If dreams are scaring you... real solution is to wake up! " working on dreams " while still being lost in dreams... may not be the real solution! If you have mental nightmares created by thinking... the real solution might be to stop thinking.... to become awake to that which is prior to and beyond thinking... " working on thoughts " while being lost in thoughts may not be the real lasting solution! True or false? What is your experience? Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 ah! true or false. hui are we " harping on about principles " ? is there any true or false at all? like carved out of stone? have you ever met anyone who managed to stop thinking?? lr > > If dreams are scaring you... > real solution is to wake up! > > " working on dreams " while still being lost in dreams... may not be > the real solution! > > > > If you have mental nightmares created by thinking... > the real solution might be to stop thinking.... > > to become awake to that which is prior to and beyond thinking... > > > " working on thoughts " while being lost in thoughts may not be the > real lasting solution! > > > > True or false? > > > What is your experience? > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 this is also why my husband doenst like the work.. and probably why it doesnt work for me .. because i still am stuck in my mind.. and thoughts.. I think terrorists scare me when i fly.. but when i did the work.. i got that actually my fear of death and pain scare me. my terror thoughts.. still scared.. oh well.. rh - In Loving-what-is , jmknapp74@... wrote: > > > i find that the work doesn't " work " for me. maybe this is why? > > In a message dated 9/14/2006 9:56:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > adithya_comming@... writes: > > > > > If dreams are scaring you... > real solution is to wake up! > > " working on dreams " while still being lost in dreams... may not be > the real solution! > > If you have mental nightmares created by thinking... > the real solution might be to stop thinking.... > > to become awake to that which is prior to and beyond thinking... > > " working on thoughts " while being lost in thoughts may not be the > real lasting solution! > > True or false? > > What is your experience? > > > > > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 > > ah! true or false. hui > > are we " harping on about principles " ? > > is there any true or false at all? > > like carved out of stone? > > have you ever met anyone who managed to stop thinking?? http://www.wie.org/j18/tolle.asp?page=1 AC: When you're alone, do you spend a lot of time physically being still? Eckhart Tolle: Yes, I can sometimes sit for two hours in a room with almost no thought. Just complete stillness. Sometimes when I go for walks, there's also complete stillness; there's no mental labeling of sense perceptions. There's simply a sense of awe or wonder or openness, and that's beautiful. .... I have met/heard/read many, many people who say they can stop thinking. They say they can " no think " when they don't need to and " think " when they need to. I have read pretty much all spiritual teachers talk about it. I have also understood it as the meaning of meditation and many, many people around the globe do it! .... I have found it true in my own life too! Only differance is that I have been going thru phases, pahses where there is very little thinking [except what is essential] and phases where there is a lot of thinking... I have certainly found less [but, focussed, purposeful, inquired or " creative " ] thinking far more paeceful! Have you ever tried it? What is your experience with it? What you take meaning of meditation to be? I have read Zen = " no thinking " . > > lr > > > > > If dreams are scaring you... > > real solution is to wake up! > > > > " working on dreams " while still being lost in dreams... may not be > > the real solution! > > > > > > > > If you have mental nightmares created by thinking... > > the real solution might be to stop thinking.... > > > > to become awake to that which is prior to and beyond thinking... > > > > > > " working on thoughts " while being lost in thoughts may not be the > > real lasting solution! > > > > > > > > True or false? > > > > > > What is your experience? > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 Hey Arvind, thanks for your response. and btw before i forget, u wanted to change your photo. i especially for you put one into my profile. have you noticed? back to the topic. oops, i don't resonate with Cohen, he's a strange guy to my. and tolle, ah. pooh. he is like a sleeping pill to me. i know he is the frontman of the advaita movement. at least he made a lot of money with it. right timing. his path/job/ " duty " . you see, people can *say* a lot. but if i sense some kind of dissonance like double message, i just take a turn. i have met spiritual teachers with renomee, but looking behind the curtain. oh oh : / i personally have never met anyone who said it doesn't think, or whom i sensed as integer with that. (just mho) see, i take it simple. i don't believe in any other teaching than life itself. rose always gets to know what she needs to know. she has access to wisdom. that's enough for her. all these glorious stories about enlightenment, selfrealisation, ancient pathes ... does it come down to money? to controll (fear or whatever) i know moments of thoughlessness, but not longer periods. maybe that changes. maybe not. why should i care right now? now regarding your questions. Have you ever tried it? no. not effortfilled > > What is your experience with it? i experience it when i'm travelling, or gardening. > > What you take meaning of meditation to be? i hope i translate that sentence correctly. did you ask, what is your opinion regarding meditation? i did meditate. i stopped. i am always tuned into what's going on within me. sometimes i am like next to me, just observing roses life, and then at other times i'm fully drawn into the play. currently i perceive sitting down for meditation as somehow unnatural. i just live. that might change again. > > I have read Zen = " no thinking " . aha. oh oh. my friend who is a zen girl, oh she would lecture u now. beware )) lr > http://www.wie.org/j18/tolle.asp?page=1 > > AC: When you're alone, do you spend a lot of time physically being > still? > > Eckhart Tolle: Yes, I can sometimes sit for two hours in a room with > almost no thought. Just complete stillness. Sometimes when I go for > walks, there's also complete stillness; there's no mental labeling > of sense perceptions. There's simply a sense of awe or wonder or > openness, and that's beautiful. > > > ... > > > I have met/heard/read many, many people > who say they can stop thinking. > > They say they can " no think " when > they don't need to and " think " > when they need to. > > I have read pretty much all spiritual > teachers talk about it. > > I have also understood it as the meaning > of meditation and many, many people > around the globe do it! > > ... > > I have found it true in my own life too! > > Only differance is that I have been > going thru phases, pahses where there > is very little thinking [except what is > essential] and phases where there is > a lot of thinking... > > I have certainly found less [but, focussed, > purposeful, inquired or " creative " ] thinking > far more paeceful! > > > Have you ever tried it? > > What is your experience with it? > > What you take meaning of meditation to be? > > I have read Zen = " no thinking " . Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 > > Hey Arvind, > > thanks for your response. and btw before i forget, u wanted to > change your photo. i especially for you put one into my profile. > have you noticed? Yes, I have noticed. > > back to the topic. > > oops, i don't resonate with Cohen, he's a strange guy to my. > and tolle, ah. pooh. he is like a sleeping pill to me. i know he is > the frontman of the advaita movement. at least he made a lot of > money with it. right timing. his path/job/ " duty " . Ok. Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html speaks towards the end of the video. Also try this interview*: http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm In many other talks, I heard talk like what seem to be quite " radical " " nonduality " ! BTW... do you know that Tolle is listed among the TOP endorser of BK's book... in the BK's book? Maybe, it is because respects Tolle? Maybe, it is because finds Tolle truthful? I don't know. I am just guessing. > > you see, people can *say* a lot. but if i sense some kind of > dissonance like double message, i just take a turn. Sure. But, do we always know that " double message " that we are getting is not because of the limitation of language? > > i have met spiritual teachers with renomee, but looking behind the > curtain. oh oh : / Sure. > > i personally have never met anyone who said it doesn't think, or > whom i sensed as integer with that. (just mho) " Thinking " and " not thinking " that I am talking about here is not a 'pernamnent' state just like " laughing " , " not laughing " , " loving " , " not loving " are not. Just like some of us keep " thinking " most of the times there can be [and are] people who are " not thinking " most/much/some of the time. That's all I am referring to. It will be very difficult to live with no thinking at all and I am not even recomending or suggesting that. However, a very large part of our thinking in unessential and even harmful - that can be stopped. > > see, i take it simple. i don't believe in any other teaching than > life itself. rose always gets to know what she needs to know. she > has access to wisdom. that's enough for her. I am not sure if I understand that. If that was " really " our approach - would it make sense to read someone like ? What for? > > all these glorious stories about enlightenment, selfrealisation, > ancient pathes ... does it come down to money? to controll (fear or > whatever) I don't know. There has been many people [including Ramana] who has talked about these things and yet has not shown much inclination for money, power etc. and have shown theselves to be quite truthful and honest in thier speech and behaviour. > > i know moments of thoughlessness, but not longer periods. Maybe, that can tell you that it is " possible " for you [or someone else] to have " longer " and " more frequent " periods of " no thought " ! And, that's all I am really refering to here. > maybe that > changes. maybe not. why should i care right now? Maybe, for the same reason that some people do " work " ! To get " out of " the stressfull " thoughts'! To " wake up " out of scary dreams! > > now regarding your questions. > > Have you ever tried it? > > no. not effortfilled Ok. > > > > What is your experience with it? > > i experience it when i'm travelling, or gardening. Sure. Maybe, that tell us that you [or someone else] can experience while making love, cooking, painting, working on computers, speaking, talking, listening, just sitting... too! Maybe, that can tell us that some of us might experience it in the middle of most things that they do! > > > > > What you take meaning of meditation to be? > > i hope i translate that sentence correctly. did you ask, what is > your opinion regarding meditation? Yes, that's what I asked. > > i did meditate. i stopped. i am always tuned into what's going on > within me. sometimes i am like next to me, just observing roses > life, and then at other times i'm fully drawn into the play. > currently i perceive sitting down for meditation as somehow > unnatural. i just live. that might change again. Sure. I never thought " sitting down " was a requirement for all " meditation " ! To me, meditation simply means " no thinking " no matter, what you do... in order to " get there " ! > > > > > > I have read Zen = " no thinking " . > aha. oh oh. my friend who is a zen girl, oh she would lecture u now. > beware )) Sure! Love, ac. > > lr > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wie.org/j18/tolle.asp?page=1 > > > > AC: When you're alone, do you spend a lot of time physically being > > still? > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Yes, I can sometimes sit for two hours in a room > with > > almost no thought. Just complete stillness. Sometimes when I go > for > > walks, there's also complete stillness; there's no mental labeling > > of sense perceptions. There's simply a sense of awe or wonder or > > openness, and that's beautiful. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > I have met/heard/read many, many people > > who say they can stop thinking. > > > > They say they can " no think " when > > they don't need to and " think " > > when they need to. > > > > I have read pretty much all spiritual > > teachers talk about it. > > > > I have also understood it as the meaning > > of meditation and many, many people > > around the globe do it! > > > > ... > > > > I have found it true in my own life too! > > > > Only differance is that I have been > > going thru phases, pahses where there > > is very little thinking [except what is > > essential] and phases where there is > > a lot of thinking... > > > > I have certainly found less [but, focussed, > > purposeful, inquired or " creative " ] thinking > > far more paeceful! > > > > > > Have you ever tried it? > > > > What is your experience with it? > > > > What you take meaning of meditation to be? > > > > I have read Zen = " no thinking " . > ---- ------ SM: Well, would the words match considering how it's described here? [i point to Maslow's description of transcendence, and then my description of sustained transcendence.] BK: I would say, yes. Everything. It transcended itself and itself was everything. It totally transcended that. It's like this. Every moment's like this. It's like if you… [lifts hand in front of face] is to be amazed. Just to see this hand, is amazing! I mean, I eat that food [points to the food], I am eating myself. It is so good! I mean, every moment, It is Itself now. But to see this, you get still with that. Or this. And you die. You dissolve into it. Anyone would. Just to get still. And I call it, who we are without a story. But it's…I call it love, because I don't have another word. But just to see my hand in front of my face, or my foot, or the table, or anything, it's to see it for the first time. Here are the words that I would use: 'It's a privilege beyond what can be told.' It's self experiencing the mere image of itself…born [inaudible — in love?]. SM: Mmm. BK: Yeah. They said this is your husband. I said, good. These are your children. I said, good. Your name is . Okie dokey. SM: So you truly had a disidentification. Even of memory? BK: Everything. Everything. Everything. SM: So how did your behaviour change? BK: Radically. Radically. Extreme opposite. It took a 180-degree shift. Totally. Total shift. SM: So, some practical things: You were spending vast quantities of time in bed, you were depressed, and when the shift occurred? BK: None. SM: No time in bed? BK: None. Three hours sleep and not eating. SM: Do you know if you were dreaming when you'd sleep? BK: Mmmm. Same as awake. Nothing real here. Nothing real there. SM: So would you have dreams but recognise that they weren't real? BK: Same. It's like sitting with you. SM: What I'm trying to get is…sitting with me… BK: Is a dream. SM: And when you are asleep…I'm trying to understand, is it like meditation where it's just still and quiet or your mind is actually having images? BK: Same. Same as sitting here with you. It's all the same. This article is reprinted from The Noumenon Journal. Click here for more information about it. SM: So you are having visuals, and sound there too? BK: Extremely rare. And heaven. Heaven. Heaven. Just like being here with you. SM: So there was a lot of energy? And how did it affect your physical behaviour? BK: No one told me what was going on. The people in Barstow, they don't have the concepts like maybe the people in this group tonight would. What was typical for me was to hit the streets. Open my eyes, and just hit the streets. Maybe encounter someone, this would not be unusual, and just walk up and just naturally put my arms around them…or walk beside them and take their hand and walk. And maybe they would move away…frightened. And I would say something like, 'why are you pretending not to know me, why are you pretending not to care about me, why are you pretending not to love me? Why are you pretending not to recognise me?' And so, I could see the fear in their eyes, because It starts to shift from there, because it's me. So for you to be uncomfortable is my discomfort. I mean literally. And so I would go by the eyes and moving back and so It learned how the look is. They used to call me 'the lit lady', and 'the woman who walks by' and I'd go out in the desert and just never come back cuz there's no such thing as lost. I learned that the light, the litness, would apparently decrease and get less and less until it looked like yours. No happier, no sadder. The appearance isn't quality, and that's where it's comfortable. But the litness doesn't change levels. It just apparently does. It's like a chameleon. I call it 'love meets itself'. It doesn't care where, it doesn't care what. It just does. So that's how I met people. SM: So you were drawn toward human beings? BK: Totally. Sunny Massad " When I went to the halfway house I just can't remember them medicating me at all. " SM: Which was unusual considering… BK: The extreme opposite. I [had not been] a lover of people or anything else that is. SM: How has your relationship with your body changed? BK: Um. I had one, now I don't [laughs]. Um. Just total love. Just absolutely… I used to ask my children to just look at these hands and fingers…how the light hit it and touched it and just…maybe I would just ask them to come look at my foot or something and just marvel. It didn't matter whether it was their foot or my foot it was…new. New. New. Took about three years for it to even begin to balance. .... -------- Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 > > have you noticed? > > Yes, I have noticed. and where is your's ?? ) > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you had in mind. could u be more specific. pls. > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > Also try this interview*: > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm i gave up in the middle of page two. what was it you wanted to make me aware of? > In many other talks, I heard talk like > what seem to be quite " radical " " nonduality " ! maybe. what is it that you do want to make me notice? > > BTW... do you know that Tolle is listed among the > TOP endorser of BK's book... in the BK's book? i don't care. and i don't mean it arrogant. i simply don't resonate with him. > Maybe, it is because respects Tolle? + perhaps. > > Maybe, it is because finds Tolle truthful? + perhaps. > > I don't know. > > I am just guessing. do u cosider it important? > > > > > > > you see, people can *say* a lot. but if i sense some kind of > > dissonance like double message, i just take a turn. > > Sure. > > But, do we always know that " double message " that > we are getting is not because of the limitation > of language? the double message i'm talking about is sensed independend of language limits. > > > > > > i have met spiritual teachers with renomee, but looking behind the > > curtain. oh oh : / > > Sure. renommee isalled in english " kudos " > > > > > i personally have never met anyone who said it doesn't think, or > > whom i sensed as integer with that. (just mho) i was talking about integrity > > " Thinking " and " not thinking " that I am talking > about here is not a 'pernamnent' state just like > " laughing " , " not laughing " , " loving " , " not loving " > are not. > > Just like some of us keep " thinking " most of the > times there can be [and are] people who are > " not thinking " most/much/some of the time. perhaps. i haven't met one. knowingly. > > That's all I am referring to. > > It will be very difficult to live with no > thinking at all and I am not even recomending > or suggesting that. However, a very large part > of our thinking in unessential and even harmful > - that can be stopped. yes. e.g. through the work. or any other inquiry. > > > > > > see, i take it simple. i don't believe in any other teaching than life itself. rose always gets to know what she needs to know. she has access to wisdom. that's enough for her. > > I am not sure if I understand that. > > If that was " really " our approach - would it > make sense to read someone like ? What for? see below. > all these glorious stories about enlightenment, selfrealisation, > > ancient paths ... does it come down to money? to controll (fear or whatever) > > I don't know. > There has been many people [including Ramana] > who has talked about these things and yet > has not shown much inclination for money, > power etc. and have shown theselves to be > quite truthful and honest in thier speech > and behaviour. right. and ramana is discarnated. > > > > i know moments of thoughlessness, but not longer periods. > > Maybe, that can tell you that > it is " possible " for you [or someone else] > to have " longer " and " more frequent " > periods of " no thought " ! > > And, that's all I am really refering to here. i see. > > maybe that > > changes. maybe not. why should i care right now? > > Maybe, for the same reason that some people > do " work " ! aha. see i forgot to mention that it also happend in nature. but more in the exposed places, like the top of a mountain. or alone at a wild sea side. but as my body is changed most of these places are not within reach for me anylonger. so rose forgot about them. in a way. > > To get " out of " the stressfull " thoughts'! > > To " wake up " out of scary dreams! oh. > > > > > now regarding your questions. > > > > Have you ever tried it? > > > > no. not effortfilled > > Ok. what else ? > > > > > > > What is your experience with it? > > > > i experience it when i'm travelling, or gardening. > > Sure. > > Maybe, that tell us that you [or someone else] > can experience while making love, cooking, > painting, working on computers, speaking, > talking, listening, just sitting... too! exactly. especially making love and doing simple tasks, like housework. i agree. > Maybe, that can tell us that some of us > might experience it in the middle of most > things that they do! i agree. > > > What you take meaning of meditation to be? > > > > i hope i translate that sentence correctly. did you ask, what is > > your opinion regarding meditation? > > Yes, that's what I asked. fine. > > i did meditate. i stopped. i am always tuned into what's going on > > within me. sometimes i am like next to me, just observing roses > > life, and then at other times i'm fully drawn into the play. > > currently i perceive sitting down for meditation as somehow > > unnatural. i just live. that might change again. > > Sure. : ) > I never thought " sitting down " was a requirement > for all " meditation " ! > > To me, meditation simply means " no thinking " > no matter, what you do... in order to > " get there " ! ha ha! and what is getting there? in other words ??? > > > I have read Zen = " no thinking " . > > aha. oh oh. my friend who is a zen girl, oh she would lecture u now. > > beware )) > > Sure! wise guy > > Love, > ac. love, r too tired to read what's below. maybe tomorrow. buona notte. still waiting for a change of your pic. ) > > lr > > > ---- > > ------ > > SM: Well, would the words match considering how it's described here? > [i point to Maslow's description of transcendence, and then my > description of sustained transcendence.] > > BK: I would say, yes. Everything. It transcended itself and itself was > everything. It totally transcended that. It's like this. Every > moment's like this. It's like if you… [lifts hand in front of face] is > to be amazed. Just to see this hand, is amazing! I mean, I eat that > food [points to the food], I am eating myself. It is so good! I mean, > every moment, It is Itself now. But to see this, you get still with > that. Or this. And you die. You dissolve into it. Anyone would. Just > to get still. And I call it, who we are without a story. But it's…I > call it love, because I don't have another word. But just to see my > hand in front of my face, or my foot, or the table, or anything, it's > to see it for the first time. Here are the words that I would use: > 'It's a privilege beyond what can be told.' It's self experiencing the > mere image of itself…born [inaudible — in love?]. > > SM: Mmm. > > BK: Yeah. They said this is your husband. I said, good. These are your > children. I said, good. Your name is . Okie dokey. > > SM: So you truly had a disidentification. Even of memory? > > BK: Everything. Everything. Everything. > > SM: So how did your behaviour change? > > BK: Radically. Radically. Extreme opposite. It took a 180-degree > shift. Totally. Total shift. > > SM: So, some practical things: You were spending vast quantities of > time in bed, you were depressed, and when the shift occurred? > > BK: None. > > SM: No time in bed? > > BK: None. Three hours sleep and not eating. > > SM: Do you know if you were dreaming when you'd sleep? > > BK: Mmmm. Same as awake. Nothing real here. Nothing real there. > > SM: So would you have dreams but recognise that they weren't real? > > BK: Same. It's like sitting with you. > > SM: What I'm trying to get is…sitting with me… > > BK: Is a dream. > > SM: And when you are asleep…I'm trying to understand, is it like > meditation where it's just still and quiet or your mind is actually > having images? > > BK: Same. Same as sitting here with you. It's all the same. > > This article is reprinted from The Noumenon Journal. Click here for > more information about it. > > > SM: So you are having visuals, and sound there too? > > BK: Extremely rare. And heaven. Heaven. Heaven. Just like being here > with you. > > SM: So there was a lot of energy? And how did it affect your physical > behaviour? > > BK: No one told me what was going on. The people in Barstow, they > don't have the concepts like maybe the people in this group tonight would. > > What was typical for me was to hit the streets. Open my eyes, and just > hit the streets. Maybe encounter someone, this would not be unusual, > and just walk up and just naturally put my arms around them…or walk > beside them and take their hand and walk. And maybe they would move > away…frightened. And I would say something like, 'why are you > pretending not to know me, why are you pretending not to care about > me, why are you pretending not to love me? Why are you pretending not > to recognise me?' And so, I could see the fear in their eyes, because > It starts to shift from there, because it's me. So for you to be > uncomfortable is my discomfort. I mean literally. And so I would go by > the eyes and moving back and so It learned how the look is. > > They used to call me 'the lit lady', and 'the woman who walks by' and > I'd go out in the desert and just never come back cuz there's no such > thing as lost. I learned that the light, the litness, would apparently > decrease and get less and less until it looked like yours. No happier, > no sadder. The appearance isn't quality, and that's where it's > comfortable. But the litness doesn't change levels. It just apparently > does. It's like a chameleon. I call it 'love meets itself'. It doesn't > care where, it doesn't care what. It just does. So that's how I met > people. > > SM: So you were drawn toward human beings? > > BK: Totally. > > Sunny Massad > > " When I went to the halfway house I just can't remember them > medicating me at all. " > > SM: Which was unusual considering… > > BK: The extreme opposite. I [had not been] a lover of people or > anything else that is. > > SM: How has your relationship with your body changed? > > BK: Um. I had one, now I don't [laughs]. Um. Just total love. Just > absolutely… I used to ask my children to just look at these hands and > fingers…how the light hit it and touched it and just…maybe I would > just ask them to come look at my foot or something and just marvel. It > didn't matter whether it was their foot or my foot it was…new. New. > New. Took about three years for it to even begin to balance. > > > ... > > > -------- > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 > > have you noticed? > > Yes, I have noticed. and where is your's ?? ) > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you had in mind. could u be more specific. pls. > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > Also try this interview*: > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm i gave up in the middle of page two. what was it you wanted to make me aware of? > In many other talks, I heard talk like > what seem to be quite " radical " " nonduality " ! maybe. what is it that you do want to make me notice? > > BTW... do you know that Tolle is listed among the > TOP endorser of BK's book... in the BK's book? i don't care. and i don't mean it arrogant. i simply don't resonate with him. > Maybe, it is because respects Tolle? + perhaps. > > Maybe, it is because finds Tolle truthful? + perhaps. > > I don't know. > > I am just guessing. do u cosider it important? > > > > > > > you see, people can *say* a lot. but if i sense some kind of > > dissonance like double message, i just take a turn. > > Sure. > > But, do we always know that " double message " that > we are getting is not because of the limitation > of language? the double message i'm talking about is sensed independend of language limits. > > > > > > i have met spiritual teachers with renomee, but looking behind the > > curtain. oh oh : / > > Sure. renommee isalled in english " kudos " > > > > > i personally have never met anyone who said it doesn't think, or > > whom i sensed as integer with that. (just mho) i was talking about integrity > > " Thinking " and " not thinking " that I am talking > about here is not a 'pernamnent' state just like > " laughing " , " not laughing " , " loving " , " not loving " > are not. > > Just like some of us keep " thinking " most of the > times there can be [and are] people who are > " not thinking " most/much/some of the time. perhaps. i haven't met one. knowingly. > > That's all I am referring to. > > It will be very difficult to live with no > thinking at all and I am not even recomending > or suggesting that. However, a very large part > of our thinking in unessential and even harmful > - that can be stopped. yes. e.g. through the work. or any other inquiry. > > > > > > see, i take it simple. i don't believe in any other teaching than life itself. rose always gets to know what she needs to know. she has access to wisdom. that's enough for her. > > I am not sure if I understand that. > > If that was " really " our approach - would it > make sense to read someone like ? What for? see below. > all these glorious stories about enlightenment, selfrealisation, > > ancient paths ... does it come down to money? to controll (fear or whatever) > > I don't know. > There has been many people [including Ramana] > who has talked about these things and yet > has not shown much inclination for money, > power etc. and have shown theselves to be > quite truthful and honest in thier speech > and behaviour. right. and ramana is discarnated. > > > > i know moments of thoughlessness, but not longer periods. > > Maybe, that can tell you that > it is " possible " for you [or someone else] > to have " longer " and " more frequent " > periods of " no thought " ! > > And, that's all I am really refering to here. i see. > > maybe that > > changes. maybe not. why should i care right now? > > Maybe, for the same reason that some people > do " work " ! aha. see i forgot to mention that it also happend in nature. but more in the exposed places, like the top of a mountain. or alone at a wild sea side. but as my body is changed most of these places are not within reach for me anylonger. so rose forgot about them. in a way. > > To get " out of " the stressfull " thoughts'! > > To " wake up " out of scary dreams! oh. > > > > > now regarding your questions. > > > > Have you ever tried it? > > > > no. not effortfilled > > Ok. what else ? > > > > > > > What is your experience with it? > > > > i experience it when i'm travelling, or gardening. > > Sure. > > Maybe, that tell us that you [or someone else] > can experience while making love, cooking, > painting, working on computers, speaking, > talking, listening, just sitting... too! exactly. especially making love and doing simple tasks, like housework. i agree. > Maybe, that can tell us that some of us > might experience it in the middle of most > things that they do! i agree. > > > What you take meaning of meditation to be? > > > > i hope i translate that sentence correctly. did you ask, what is > > your opinion regarding meditation? > > Yes, that's what I asked. fine. > > i did meditate. i stopped. i am always tuned into what's going on > > within me. sometimes i am like next to me, just observing roses > > life, and then at other times i'm fully drawn into the play. > > currently i perceive sitting down for meditation as somehow > > unnatural. i just live. that might change again. > > Sure. : ) > I never thought " sitting down " was a requirement > for all " meditation " ! > > To me, meditation simply means " no thinking " > no matter, what you do... in order to > " get there " ! ha ha! and what is getting there? in other words ??? > > > I have read Zen = " no thinking " . > > aha. oh oh. my friend who is a zen girl, oh she would lecture u now. > > beware )) > > Sure! wise guy > > Love, > ac. love, r too tired to read what's below. maybe tomorrow. buona notte. still waiting for a change of your pic. ) > > lr > > > ---- > > ------ > > SM: Well, would the words match considering how it's described here? > [i point to Maslow's description of transcendence, and then my > description of sustained transcendence.] > > BK: I would say, yes. Everything. It transcended itself and itself was > everything. It totally transcended that. It's like this. Every > moment's like this. It's like if you… [lifts hand in front of face] is > to be amazed. Just to see this hand, is amazing! I mean, I eat that > food [points to the food], I am eating myself. It is so good! I mean, > every moment, It is Itself now. But to see this, you get still with > that. Or this. And you die. You dissolve into it. Anyone would. Just > to get still. And I call it, who we are without a story. But it's…I > call it love, because I don't have another word. But just to see my > hand in front of my face, or my foot, or the table, or anything, it's > to see it for the first time. Here are the words that I would use: > 'It's a privilege beyond what can be told.' It's self experiencing the > mere image of itself…born [inaudible — in love?]. > > SM: Mmm. > > BK: Yeah. They said this is your husband. I said, good. These are your > children. I said, good. Your name is . Okie dokey. > > SM: So you truly had a disidentification. Even of memory? > > BK: Everything. Everything. Everything. > > SM: So how did your behaviour change? > > BK: Radically. Radically. Extreme opposite. It took a 180-degree > shift. Totally. Total shift. > > SM: So, some practical things: You were spending vast quantities of > time in bed, you were depressed, and when the shift occurred? > > BK: None. > > SM: No time in bed? > > BK: None. Three hours sleep and not eating. > > SM: Do you know if you were dreaming when you'd sleep? > > BK: Mmmm. Same as awake. Nothing real here. Nothing real there. > > SM: So would you have dreams but recognise that they weren't real? > > BK: Same. It's like sitting with you. > > SM: What I'm trying to get is…sitting with me… > > BK: Is a dream. > > SM: And when you are asleep…I'm trying to understand, is it like > meditation where it's just still and quiet or your mind is actually > having images? > > BK: Same. Same as sitting here with you. It's all the same. > > This article is reprinted from The Noumenon Journal. Click here for > more information about it. > > > SM: So you are having visuals, and sound there too? > > BK: Extremely rare. And heaven. Heaven. Heaven. Just like being here > with you. > > SM: So there was a lot of energy? And how did it affect your physical > behaviour? > > BK: No one told me what was going on. The people in Barstow, they > don't have the concepts like maybe the people in this group tonight would. > > What was typical for me was to hit the streets. Open my eyes, and just > hit the streets. Maybe encounter someone, this would not be unusual, > and just walk up and just naturally put my arms around them…or walk > beside them and take their hand and walk. And maybe they would move > away…frightened. And I would say something like, 'why are you > pretending not to know me, why are you pretending not to care about > me, why are you pretending not to love me? Why are you pretending not > to recognise me?' And so, I could see the fear in their eyes, because > It starts to shift from there, because it's me. So for you to be > uncomfortable is my discomfort. I mean literally. And so I would go by > the eyes and moving back and so It learned how the look is. > > They used to call me 'the lit lady', and 'the woman who walks by' and > I'd go out in the desert and just never come back cuz there's no such > thing as lost. I learned that the light, the litness, would apparently > decrease and get less and less until it looked like yours. No happier, > no sadder. The appearance isn't quality, and that's where it's > comfortable. But the litness doesn't change levels. It just apparently > does. It's like a chameleon. I call it 'love meets itself'. It doesn't > care where, it doesn't care what. It just does. So that's how I met > people. > > SM: So you were drawn toward human beings? > > BK: Totally. > > Sunny Massad > > " When I went to the halfway house I just can't remember them > medicating me at all. " > > SM: Which was unusual considering… > > BK: The extreme opposite. I [had not been] a lover of people or > anything else that is. > > SM: How has your relationship with your body changed? > > BK: Um. I had one, now I don't [laughs]. Um. Just total love. Just > absolutely… I used to ask my children to just look at these hands and > fingers…how the light hit it and touched it and just…maybe I would > just ask them to come look at my foot or something and just marvel. It > didn't matter whether it was their foot or my foot it was…new. New. > New. Took about three years for it to even begin to balance. > > > ... > > > -------- > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 [...] > > > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html > > aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you had in > mind. could u be more specific. pls. It is the FIRST one in the SECOND table. Its title is: UG Interviewed by Willen de Ridder and Byron Amsterdam, Holland, 1998. Fast forward towards the end of the video to hear speak. > > > > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > > > > Also try this interview*: > > > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm > [...] Quote
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 > > > > > have you noticed? > > > > Yes, I have noticed. > > and where is your's ?? ) My photo is at: http://health.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Loving-what-is/photos/view/5fc2?b=1 I have also changed the photo in profile. Love, ac. [...] Quote
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 thank you! while being busy with the response, my body signaled stress. i had eaten something it really disliked. so ... I'll be back for checking what i wrote in that. and btw. your photos are beautiful, beautiful to fall in love instantly ) no wonder your wife is jealous. lr > [...] > > > > > > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > > > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > > > > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html > > > > aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you had in > > mind. could u be more specific. pls. > > > It is the FIRST one in the SECOND table. > > Its title is: UG Interviewed by Willen de Ridder and Byron > Amsterdam, Holland, 1998. > > Fast forward towards the end of the video to hear > speak. > > > > > > > > > > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > > > > > > > > > Also try this interview*: > > > > > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm > > > > > [...] > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Posted September 18, 2006 bullshit! grr! arvind, hello again. i tried two times to answer this, but it didn't work. the computer crashed. i was half way through. have done my homewhork. ah! now i am tired and go to bed. see ya, r > > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > > > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > > > > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html > > > > aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you had in > > mind. could u be more specific. pls. > > > It is the FIRST one in the SECOND table. > > Its title is: UG Interviewed by Willen de Ridder and Byron > Amsterdam, Holland, 1998. > > Fast forward towards the end of the video to hear > speak. > > > > > > > > > > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > > > > > > > > > Also try this interview*: > > > > > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm > > > > > [...] > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Posted September 19, 2006 > > bullshit! grr! I don't what you are calling bullshit here. Is it the video that you are calling bullshit, or my message or is it something else? Regards, ac. > > arvind, hello again. i tried two times to answer this, but it didn't > work. the computer crashed. i was half way through. have done my > homewhork. ah! now i am tired and go to bed. > > see ya, r > > > > > > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > > > > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > > > > > > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html > > > > > > aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you had > in > > > mind. could u be more specific. pls. > > > > > > It is the FIRST one in the SECOND table. > > > > Its title is: UG Interviewed by Willen de Ridder and Byron > > Amsterdam, Holland, 1998. > > > > Fast forward towards the end of the video to hear > > speak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also try this interview*: > > > > > > > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Posted September 19, 2006 hi arvind, bullshit was just an expression of the momentarily emotion, of having written carefully and then the computer crashed. i was really tired and had an exhausting day behind me. allright. i watched the video. one time, partwise, and the second time fully. with the interview i'm not fully done. so far for the moment. i'm inwardly busy with another topic currently. lr > > > > > > bullshit! grr! > > I don't what you are calling bullshit here. > > Is it the video that you are calling bullshit, > or my message or is it something else? > > Regards, > ac. > > > > > > arvind, hello again. i tried two times to answer this, but it > didn't > > work. the computer crashed. i was half way through. have done my > > homewhork. ah! now i am tired and go to bed. > > > > see ya, r > > > > > > > > > > > Try this video [ " UG Interviewed by Willen > > > > > de Ridder and Byron " ] of Byron at: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/ug/ug_video/index.html > > > > > > > > aaaah. there were so many. i guess i didn't find the one you > had > > in > > > > mind. could u be more specific. pls. > > > > > > > > > It is the FIRST one in the SECOND table. > > > > > > Its title is: UG Interviewed by Willen de Ridder and Byron > > > Amsterdam, Holland, 1998. > > > > > > Fast forward towards the end of the video to hear > > > speak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > speaks towards the end of the video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also try this interview*: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc107a.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > Quote
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