Re: Re: parenting and kids

[Guest guest]

Wow, . Ok, I've read this reply several times and I'm just amazed with

all the dense goodness in it! I don't know where to begin in my response to

you, other than to say that I deeply THANK YOU for offering your insights. And,

yes, I meant poignant in a good way - the way that means touching, powerful,

potent.

When I got to this part, quoted below, I laughed so hard I cried for about 10

minutes straight:

Well, you may want to tell him: " sweetheart, if you want to go through my

drawers without asking, please wash your dishes. Otherwise I don't feel ok with

it. "

Oh my, that was very funny.

Ok, so yeah - I want to do The Work online. Where, online, do you do The

Work?

wrote:

Dear ,

>> Am 14.04.2006 um 21:19 schrieb VitalHarvest:

>>

>>> Hi all. My name is and I'm new to the group.

>>>

>>> I am wondering if anyone in this group is a parent to young

>>> children, that could possibly relate to my situation.

>> Yes, they are 4 and 7.

> I'm sure you know a lot about what I'm saying, then.

I do. And it doesn't matter.

>>> I find that some of my issues as a single mother have posed

>>> especially difficult challenges to the theories of The Work.

>> The work is practice. Not theory. Attempts to " understand " the work

>> are fruitless. And futile.

>>

>>> While I am able to do The Work to help myself feel more ok about

>>> the predicaments I face, I find that I'm still frequently

>>> overwhelmed with the tasks of doing Everything by myself. How can

>>> I feel ok and accepting about being the only one doing everything

>>> by myself to meet two young people's needs, entirely?

>> Ok, list their needs you are taking care of. Let's start with that.

> - Feed them EVERY DAY

> - Wash their dishes EVERY DAY

> - Wash their clothes EVERY DAY

> - Clean and care for their home EVERY DAY

> - Educate them EVERY DAY

> - Drive them to their classes almost EVERY DAY

> - Drive them to play dates almost EVERY DAY

> - Juggle and arrange their schedules EVERY DAY

> - Run errands to stores all over town, WITH them, to buy things

> that they need such as food, clothes, school supplies, sporting/

> music supplies, etc.

> - Take them to the doctor when they need it

Good.

> - Many other things that are smaller.

There is nothing " big " or " small " when it comes to beliefs.

Pain is pain.

So go through the list. And with each point, ask yourself: Is it true?

I am aware that you have done the work a couple of times. And for me

it is always a beginning. Because if I really want to know the truth,

I can just not do it often enough, nor listen enough to samples, or

hear others doing it.

And here is an example:

the two NEED you to feed them.

- Is it true?

The answer may be yes or no. And here are some stages you might want

to sit with:

Could they do it on their own?

What would be likely to happen if you did not do it?

Who would that be most painful for?

Who do you do it for?

- Can you absolutely know that it is true?

Is there absolutely NO other way than your worst fear becoming true?

Or COULD there be another option?

Just stay with " yes " or " no " .

- How do you react when you think this thought?

And it does not matter, what you answered to the first two questions.

What happens to you, when you think the worst thing you imagine could

happen?

How do you do what you do? With joy, or with stress?

How do you treat people who don't see it your way?

How do you treat yourself, what do you experience?

- Who would you be without the thought?

How would you do, what you do? How would you feel, while feeding them?

How would you react to people who don't want to do it?

- Turn it around: they NEED you to feed them.

And just take a deep look at the turnaround, if there is a way that

it could be true for you. Sometimes.

>> Don't " try " to feel ok. Be honest, instead.

> This is very good guidance. I can really see the point you make

> there. So, let me ask you a question - when we're 'loving what is'

> does that sometimes mean to move on/away from someone b/c we've

> accepted the truth about us/them/our relationship together and that

> truth is that we aren't meant to be together or that our work

> together has been completed?

Well, I don't think love makes you move

>>> The work that I do is exhausting.

>> Yes, it is.

>

>>> I am not only raising them by myself, I homeschool them as well.

>>> Their needs are tangible and in no way optional. SOMEbody has to

>>> do it (what I do for them) and it's always only me.

>> That's *very* sweet of you. I like that. You sound like a very loving

>> mother.

> Thank you, that's nice to hear.

>

>

>>> On top of that challenge, I find that it's very difficult for me to

>>> accept that their fathers (each of my two children have a different

>>> father) are so uncommitted on the various levels that they are.

>> I'd say it is even MORE difficult not to accept it.

> True, but... the conflict is the staying-married part.

>

> With my first child's father - I am at peace about his lack of

> involvement exactly b/c I'm not having a close relationship with

> him, myself. In fact, I actually feel happiness that he is so

> uninvolved b/c I get to make all the choices my way! But with my

> husband, well, I'm trying to maintain a close and loving

> relationship with him, so I feel like it's only fair that he carry

> some of the weight around here.

Yes, and when he doesn't do what you expect him to do you shut him out.

> List all the things they are uncommited towards.

>

>

> Literally everything listed above.

Good.

So... why?

For whom?

>> To make things even trickier - I am married to the father of my

>> second child, but we do not live together. He is involved very

>> little in their lives. The reason we do not live together is b/c

>> he is extremely emotionally abusive.

>

> List some ways that he is.

>

> Perfect example:

>

> When I needed help and asked for it,

Ok. Go there, and look at how you did ask for help.

Did it look and sound like you would be genuinely delighted if he did

help you?

Did it look the way it would look if you would asked someone to open

the door for you?

Did you sound like you expected him to say " yes " , no matter what?

There's several ways to ask someone for help. Which one did you choose?

> yesterday, he got defensive, aggressive and adversarial

Good. Look at how he got defensive. What did that look like? What

gestures, what words did he use?

> (typical for whenever I ask him for anything from him, no matter

> how gently and respectfully I request it)

Give an example for when you asked for something gently and

respectfully.

Actually, can you find one time when you asked him for something and

he did not got defensive, aggressive and adversarial?

See if can find just one.

And the time you gave your best shot at being kind while asking for

help. Was it more gentle then what felt right for you?

> and started beating his chest (his ego screaming) that he already

> does things with them such as play board games and that I never

> play board games with them. I felt so angry! Uh, yeah, I don't

> play board games with them - that is correct.

So, he told you the truth.

What I hear is that you take a lot of care with the kids, with all

your heart. And the one thing you don't want to do - he jumps in.

> HOWEVER, I do everything on the list I made, above, and more EVERY

> SINGLE DAY - none of which he does!

Did he argue with that? Did he say he was doing one of the things you

listed above?

And, when you say " Every single day " - do you experience joy, or stress?

> And he chooses to point out that I don't play board games with them?!

He chooses to tell the truth.

Can you listen?

> It's like - he doesn't ever compliment my mothering or say what a

> good job I'm doing or ANYTHING EVER along those lines (even though

> I've expressed my need for that from him)

yes.

You NEED him to tell you what a good mother you are.

Is that true? Do you really NEED it?

I am not asking you to be spiritual, and taking a look at it, might

take some pressure from you.

> and yet he's perfectly willing to rub my face in the slightest

> perceived flaw in his eyes such as me not playing board games with

> them.

Yes, that's his job. My wife's job is to show me what is left.

> I felt so unheard, so disrespected, so unloved! It really hurt

> that he'd use that as a weapon.

It hurt, because you knew he was right.

> That's what he frequently does - uses his personal energy/power as

> a weapon.

Turn that around.

> Another example - when I ask for things such as help from him, he

> ARGUES like crazy till I'm sorry I ever asked. Frequently, I'll

> call up another single mother friend of mine and we trade help.

> But I feel disgusted with him, afterwards, when I see how two

> highly-challenged women have to depend on each other while he just

> coasts through his sterile, controlled, childless world. Again - I

> could be at peace about it if he weren't my PARTNER, but, being

> that he IS my partner - I feel highly repulsed at these times. It

> just is disgraceful to me.

Well, if he wasn't your partner, you could just push him away. And

not think of him anymore. But because he IS your partner, he keeps

coming back.

So what comes into your mind when you think of him in that moment?

I hear he is living in a sterile, controlled childless world.

You are digusted.

You are highly-challenged, and he is... lazy?

He is disgraceful.

that's some of the things I hear, let's hear some more.

>> Doing a work on " he is emotionally abusive " , does not free him of his

>> responsibilities in any way. And it may help to take a close look on

>> how to access your freedom.

> What do you mean by this? I am especially interested in this

> part, here, that you say. I have done some work on the emotional

> abuse, already, and the truth that I've found inside me is that I

> do it to myself, too, sometimes. When I realized that, I started

> to practice behaving better toward myself. Once I started behaving

> better toward myself, I felt less attracted, less CONNECTED with

> him. I felt distant but peaceful. I think I am afraid that there

> is this truth in me that he is not who I am supposed to be with,

> romantically.

>

> On the subject of being honest instead of being 'ok' - is honest

> sometimes to turn away from? With the work - do we always have to

> stay/accept?

We don't have to stay with the work, we don't have to stay without

the work. The work helps me to get a clear mind, and to make

decisions from that place.

So, I hear you feel more peaceful when you practice behaving better

toward yourself. That sounds appealing to me. Maybe it is more

appealing to him, as well.

And before you can be with him romantically, you have to be with

yourself.

How does he abuse you?

He refuses to help, he starts shouting when you ask him for

something, what else?

>>> We are trying to work on our marriage, but I find that it's very

>>> hard for me to maintain any motivation to stay married to this man

>>> when

>>

>>> he sees parenthood as primarily my obligation,

>> turn that around.

>

>>> whilst he explores hobbies and leisure interests of his own. I

>>> find that I can accept that about him and feel ok about it (while

>>> doing The Work) but only if I sever my connection with him.

>> Well, " feeling ok " is a start. And it is not nearly enough.

>

>>> He is a good person at heart and I love him - I hate to throw away

>>> the whole package b/c a part of it is bad, if you know what I mean.

>> Yes, I know what you mean. And take a closer look at the bad part.

>

>>> Sorry for the novel, folks,

>> Well, make it longer.

> Hee hee.

....

> wrote:

>

>> Well, you do what you do.

>> You have activities with the kids.

>> Do you do it because you think it's such a great way to live your

>> life?

> Yes - that is exactly why. I feel very, very happy with my life

> with the children and know deeply in my heart that this is what's

> right for me and them.

Wonderful. So, you live it. And what do you need him for doing

activities with the kids, when it is such a joy for you? Why do you

want him to take that away from you?

>> The times you regret him watching TV, does it feel like a burden?

> Yes, that about sums it up. The times I'm having especially-

> challenging days, as I mentioned in my previous reply, are the days

> when I get angry that he's not helping. It's weird though how my

> mind plays tricks on me, b/c when he's around more or helping I

> sometimes feel like he's in the way or I don't like the way he does

> things (such as the artificial behavior I complained of in my

> previous reply).

Good to notice.

Then, you want him to help, when it is a burden for you. And you want

him to be out of the way, if it's not. Or when he doesn't do it right.

Is that what you want for him? To do your leftovers?

>> So, what is your advice for him? And why?

> To ask me frequently and openly what he can do to help. To not

> refer to spending time with the children as " watching them " as if

> he was just some babysitter or friend doing ME a favor. To be more

> active in helping out at my house when he comes over.

>

> But, mostly, I'd tell him to behave more REAL and stop feeling

> like he has to cover up who he is or pretend he's something he's

> not in his social interaction with the children.

>

> I'd like for him to do these things b/c it would improve my

> respect for him as the father of this family and feel less-

> conflicted about actually being married to him and not just co-

> parenting.

So basically, you want him to do these things, so that you feel better.

It is not about his needs, or your kid's needs, at all.

Next time you have an argument about this, try to write down your

thoughts as soon as you get a little space. That way, they are most

geniune, later they could be rationalized and censored. It's those

genuine thoughts you want to explore.

Let's get closer on this you-ask-him-and-he-gets-upset-thing. Try to

give an example, or you may want to do it over the phone, or on-line.

> Von: VitalHarvest

> Datum: 15. April 2006 16:56:04 MESZ

> An: Loving-what-is

> Betreff: Re: Intro

> Antwort an: Loving-what-is

>

> Thanks for all of your replies, . I'm just going to go

> through them, one by one, and answer your questions.

>

> I think my biggest grudge, in response to the questions below, is

> that he doesn't spend enough time interacting with the children/

> giving them personal attention.

Good one. He doesn't spend enough time with the kids.

It's a thought. And it's genuine. Natural. Now, when you experience

upset with it, inquire.

he is not spending enough time with the kids. The family say so. Your

friends say so. The experts say so in books and on tv.

And it is you who gets upset, so what do YOU say. It is not enough.

Is that true?

> I don't really know why I'm complaining, to be honest, though,

You complain, because you believe what you think. When the thought

comes up that he is not spending enough time with them, and you

believe it, you get upset. No matter what he does.

> b/c when he DOES spend time with them he has these weird artificial

> behaviors so that, even though he is sweet and playful, he is not

> behaving as his sincere self, oftentimes. I thought that his

> sweetness was enough, until I noticed that our son was mimicking

> that behavior in his own play with his peers: he would behave in

> ways that were not his genuine self when with his little playmates

> b/c he had learned from his daddy that that's what you do in social

> situations.

>

> So, I guess there's a part of me that is wanting him to be

> involved less with the children, when he behaves that way. (There

> are ALSO times in which his behavior is genuine in playing with the

> children - at those times, I feel like an ass for ever turning off

> to him/being intolerant of him.)

Well, that's probably because you are.

Not always. Just sometimes.

> I think, to answer you other question, that what would improve

> would be my respect for him - more than anything else.

And who cares for your respect?

> I'm sorry these thoughts and feelings are so messy and all-over-

> the-place. It's all pretty complex, I suppose.

I believe you are! It doesn't feel good, does it?

And it's as complex as you make it. Take it slowly, one bite at a time.

> I think I narrowed it down in a previous reply in which I

> mentioned that I feel very attracted to him on some levels and

> repulsed by him on others - and that I want to do the work on those

> things in which I feel repulsion towards.

>

> And what should I do on those days when things are challenging/

> hectic moreso than usual and I call him up and he's only half-

> listening to me b/c he's surfing the web and getting ready to watch

> TV?

Notice that he's not available for your comfort, and find another

solution. Because I learn from you, that nothing else works, but if

you try to " make " him help, you get into an argument, and look for

other solutions, then. So apart from the argument on top of the

hectic, nothing is won. And notice what thoughts come up and put them

on paper.

> Or when he's over at our house and he acts like a 'guest' and sits

> on the couch the whole time, doesn't wash even his OWN dish, let

> alone any others, and yet feels entitled to go through my drawers

> without asking if it's ok? Those are the times I feel greatly

> repulsed.

Well, you may want to tell him: " sweetheart, if you want to go

through my drawers without asking, please wash your dishes. Otherwise

I don't feel ok with it. "

If you want to do the work on-line, let me know how I can contact you.

Love,