Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, you project inner guilt on them. If you don't know what inner guilt feels like, you can't project it. And you don't have to experience it at the moment you look at them. I can see someone crawling on the floor in what seems utter pain. And feel compassion. Or anger. Or guilt. And I know, whatever this " inner guilt " is, they are experiencing... it is for their and my best. It is an important experience. And that does not keep me from asking if I can do anything for them. Love, Am 30.06.2006 um 23:26 schrieb Tami: > There is no one out there > > *YOU* are always my story > > So, if I think: > " I felt as if most people are plagued with the inner guilt " > > I would put it this way: > > I *had the story* that most people are plagued with the inner guilt > > Why would I tell that story about them??? > > Is it because they where really plagued with the inner guilt? > Is it me the one who feel inner guilt and I project it on them? > > I don't know > > What do you think? > > Love, T > > > > -- Re: Coming back . . . > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > them in yourself? > > Love, > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > >> I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. >> >> In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some >> roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, >> muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I >> even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, >> vain and jealousy. >> >> Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of >> liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- >> belief. >> >> >> I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... >> >> yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing >> fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that >> I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy >> within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had >> entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people >> were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something >> against them. >> >> I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The >> guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not >> doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you >> shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having >> lost their integrity. >> >> >> And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be >> always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect >> something, as if something within was always at risk... >> >> In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. >> As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just >> 'talking' itself was a risk. >> >> I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while >> as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for >> them... >> >> >> [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian >> origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ >> years] length]. >> >> I don't know why... >> >> >> >> ---- >> >> *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware >> of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 >> course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the >> money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for >> my brother medicines... >> >> It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing >> my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see >> it... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Dear Adithya, >> Of course! >> They are different projections of yours. > This indeed seems to be a very > popular " spiritual " " theory " > but, I am not convinced that > it is entirely true. That's good. > There are indeed plenty of objective > realities that are greatly independent > of " my " projections. Please don't hear that I want to convince you of anything. And please consider telling me what you mean by " objective " - and giving me an example for only two objective realities that are independent of your projection. > And, yes, people too can indeed be > quite different from each other > irrespctive of " my " " projections " > on them! Well, this is about finding out what part is " them " and what part is " yours " . >> And yet, since you notice only one of them at a time, can you >> really *know* there is a difference? > Sure. > > As in... > > I smell roses > > and, then (some time later) I smell garbage > and, know that they smell(ed) different. Oh, you rely on memory! Look: notice how garbage smells to you right after you smelled the roses. Observe yourself: what goes through your mind, what do you feel, how do you react? And who would you be, smelling garbage, if you had never smelled anything else? Who would you be without your story? > Can't you smell them as 'being different' too? Of course I can. And who would I be without that story, smelling garbage? >> When I see anything in someones eyes, I know it is a reflection >> of what I am. > I don't hold such 'firm' 'belief' in > everything being " my " reflection. This is not about exchanging one belief for another. It's just that... I have never seen anything in other people's eyes that I did not see in myself. And when I could not find it in myself, anymore, the things I could find in other people's eyes... changed. > Sometimes, when a dog " looks " angry > to me, I think of my safety maesures... > > Sometimes, when my boss " looks " upset, > irritated, agitated or angry, I try > not to bother him. Good! How exactly do you do that? And what about the times it does not work? I have noticed, that I don't walk into a fire, although I questioned my beliefs about burning. I questioned my beliefs about " I need my wife " and " She should not leave me " . What was left, feels like what I call love. > Though, I am open to possiblity that > sometimes what I see is indeed partly/ > mostly a result of my inner state. But, > I don't consider it being ONLY possiblity. Right. Don't try to convince yourself of something that is not true for you. >> Any feedback I get from someone originates in me. > My thought on this are above. Oh, really? Are they still the same? Don't they ... flow? >> And I can't really know what he's experiencing. > I can know only " as much " as I can know yes, absolutely. > and many times, I have to trust and work > with " that much " knowledge in order to work > in this world. Oh. Is that *really* true? What does that give you? > My sales teacher teaches me to 'guess' > customer's inner state by 'watching' > customer's body language, eyes and tone > of voice. > > He teaches me to 'trust' these sig and > to use them to make my own judgement. > > He further tells me that many salesmen > before me have indeed been quite successful > by observing, 'trusting' and using these > signs to their advantage. > > > Even when I was 'courting', much of the > early communication happend via signs > and a girl didn't always tell me " I like > you a lot " or " I am not interested " fisrt > time I saw her. I had to 'guess' it by > her gesture, look in her eyes, tone of > her voice and by her body language. Many times > I was right. > > My friends told me that they used the same > technique too. Even girls told me that they > used it to 'guess' boys interest in them. Yes, of course. And that is not looking for the truth. That is trying to evaluate the chances of getting something the other may not be ready to give. > Did you use it too? Gosh, yes! I even do, nowadays! And I am working on it. Sometimes I notice what I do. And then, I ask myself: What exactly is it, that I do? What is it, I want to get? Do I need it? If yes, then what for? And can I really know I would not get it, if I didn't use my " techniques " , and just asked for it? If I feel I want someone to tell me that he likes me, I take much greater comfort in telling him, that I like him. And sometimes, I am not there. And I notice that, as well. >> Even if I knew that he's sad, for instance, I would never know if >> he feels it the way I do. > Of course not. We can perahsps see it > 'scientificall' and know that the same > chemical reactions are taking place, > same brain waves are emanting, same > harmones are flowing, hart is beating > in similar way, blood is raing in similar > way, sweats are flowing in similar way, > eyes are open in similar way, he/she > is making similar sounds. > > We can see these among many other signs... Yes we can see. And we can SEE. And sometimes, we can't. > But, we do have 'separate' bodies. Oh, teach me something! >> I can cry and experience joy or relief, look sad and feel just >> thoughtful. >> So I must first take care of my own feelings, before I can teach >> anyone. > Yes. You can do that if you feel it is right > for you. > > I rarely try to " teach " anyone though, And do you, albeit the trying to not teach? > I do > like to hear about what others have experienced, > noticed, observed, seen... and, I do like > to share my own 'observations' with others. > > And, I know what I say is subject to 'errors' > and, what I hear from others is subject to > errors. > > I don't expect perfection from myself or others. The whole world is perfection! > Do you? Well, I expect much more from myself. And can't see the perfection, there. >> I believe you are aware of that. > How can I be aware of of what you > feel you must do before you teach? *lol* > But, now that you tell me, I am > aware of it. > >> Love, >> > > > PS: Did you watch Germany-Argentina match, ? No. > Germany entered Semis. > > Congratulations... Thx. Love, >>> And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you >>> find >>> them in yourself? >> >> I can pretty much find everything in myself. >> >> Yet, I notice that what I notice in people >> like is something different than what >> I notice in people like Saddam. >> >> >> >>> >>> Love, >>> >>> >>> Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: >>> >>>> I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. >>>> >>>> In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some >>>> roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were >> dirty, >>>> muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I >>>> even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self- > obsession, >>>> vain and jealousy. >>>> >>>> Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling >> of >>>> liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and >> self- >>>> belief. >>>> >>>> >>>> I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... >>>> >>>> yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing >>>> fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people >> that >>>> I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy >>>> within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had >>>> entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where > people >>>> were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something >>>> against them. >>>> >>>> I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. >> The >>>> guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling >> of 'not >>>> doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know > you >>>> shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having >>>> lost their integrity. >>>> >>>> >>>> And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be >>>> always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly > protect >>>> something, as if something within was always at risk... >>>> >>>> In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some >> time. >>>> As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or > just >>>> 'talking' itself was a risk. >>>> >>>> I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a >> while >>>> as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers > for >>>> them... >>>> >>>> >>>> [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian >>>> origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable >> [4+ >>>> years] length]. >>>> >>>> I don't know why... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was >> aware >>>> of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on > 21 >>>> course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with >> the >>>> money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies >> for >>>> my brother medicines... >>>> >>>> It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation >> fearing >>>> my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might >> see >>>> it... >>>> >>>> ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! 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Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Tami.. thanks for making it simple for me.. I get lost in and Adithaya letters.. Anyway alex and tami, i felt you were both sort of invalidating Aithya's oberservation he felt from the two different cultures.. cant you have feelings which are not based on a projection? I guess you are both saying it is always a projection. I did have a similar experience once.. I went to a Self REalization convocation (it was founded by an Indian ) which was a week of lectures and prayer and meditation and great food. . and after a week.. of peace and quiet.. i got back to the airport and you could feel the tension and stress immediately.. it felt creepy.. It was immediately depressing.. I know your suppose to be able to rise above your surroundings.. but Im not there yet.. It wasnt just that i was depresseed its that you can feel the difference.. so i think i know what adithaya felt.. Maybe we are more into the material consciousness.. I dont know. just my 2 cents. on this. It is maybe my projection that i felt it as depressing and adithya you felt it was guilt --i suppose that could both be true.. depending on how you see it. and maybe that part is projection.. It was not good what ever it was.. its like a group consciousness which is different for different countries.. or groups love, roslyn - In Loving-what-is , Tami wrote: > > There is no one out there > > *YOU* are always my story > > So, if I think: > " I felt as if most people are plagued with the inner guilt " > > I would put it this way: > > I *had the story* that most people are plagued with the inner guilt > > Why would I tell that story about them??? > > Is it because they where really plagued with the inner guilt? > Is it me the one who feel inner guilt and I project it on them? > > I don't know > > What do you think? > > Love, T > > > > -- Re: Coming back . . . > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > them in yourself? > > Love, > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > vain and jealousy. > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > belief. > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > against them. > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > them... > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > years] length]. > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > my brother medicines... > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 > > > It came to me to ask you at this point: > > What is the *heart* for you? > What is the *mind*for you? Hmmmm...let me see... The *heart* is for me awareness, consciousness, soul, or what is left after all stressful concepts are inquired, what is not affected by day to day circumstances etc., what is peaceful and enduring in me over the years. The *mind* is for me my thinking tool (and creator and believer in stressful concepts). The thinking tool of the ego and where all uninquired stressful concepts are stored and wait for inquiry. Most of the time I work with my mind to manage the daily circumstances and I see glimpses of awareness for instance while inquiring or when someone smiles to me. I see it as an instant realisation. But most of the time separation of mind and consciousness is my reality. I'm working on it...(by inquiry), Love, . > > For me they are one, so I lost you at this point > > Take me from where I am at, can you? > > > When there are two open minds, you have two open hearts > > and there is communication from heart to heart. There is no story or > > thought in between (ok, that is my story as far as I see it now). > > If Tami smiles to me I'll smile back, if 'I' want to or not. > > THank you for the smile sweetie > > > (I > > won't have thoughts first, like I don't think before I pull my hand > > out of the fire.) > > So you will smile back without thinking first? > I belive you, and I am grateful for having you in my life > > Smile, T > > > > :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 , I loved your definitions of " heart " and " mind " . They started some thoughts in my " mind " ... My thought right now is that " mind " and " ego " and " heart " are simply names we have given to God, just like and/or Steve. Perhaps they are " unreal " symbols for what is truly " real " ? So, that makes Tami's concept " that they are One " true for me. And I can't really know that that is true? Love, Steve D. > > > > > > > It came to me to ask you at this point: > > > > What is the *heart* for you? > > What is the *mind*for you? > > > Hmmmm...let me see... > > > The *heart* is for me awareness, consciousness, soul, or what is > left after all stressful concepts are inquired, what is not affected > by day to day circumstances etc., what is peaceful and enduring in > me over the years. > > The *mind* is for me my thinking tool (and creator and believer in > stressful concepts). The thinking tool of the ego and where all > uninquired stressful concepts are stored and wait for inquiry. > > Most of the time I work with my mind to manage the daily > circumstances and I see glimpses of awareness for instance while > inquiring or when someone smiles to me. I see it as an instant > realisation. But most of the time separation of mind and > consciousness is my reality. > > I'm working on it...(by inquiry), > > Love, > > . > > > > > > > For me they are one, so I lost you at this point > > > > Take me from where I am at, can you? > > > > > When there are two open minds, you have two open hearts > > > and there is communication from heart to heart. There is no > story or > > > thought in between (ok, that is my story as far as I see it now). > > > If Tami smiles to me I'll smile back, if 'I' want to or not. > > > > THank you for the smile sweetie > > > > > > (I > > > won't have thoughts first, like I don't think before I pull my > hand > > > out of the fire.) > > > > So you will smile back without thinking first? > > I belive you, and I am grateful for having you in my life > > > > Smile, T > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Dear Steve I agree with you. According to the story of 's awakening, she awoke with no thoughts, nor concept, but she feels... But maybe she project God's love, What I understand from that, is that I am that who could feel with not attachment to thought. and " think, feel, act, have " not always valid. Love, Ora -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > them in yourself? > > > > Love, > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self- obsession, > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > against them. > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > them... > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > years] length]. > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hi everyone, I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? How is it different? Maybe I lvoe my husband, but not as a husband anymore, maybe ai love everyone as friends. How do I know the difference of love in my heart without thoughts? love, Ora Shaik wrote: Dear roslyn You asked: " cant you have feelings which are not based on a projection? " My humble answer is: No. but, without stressful thought, you project love, peace happiness. because you have that all within you. so if you investigate your stressful thought, you could be able to stop suffering. that is what " the work " is all about. Love, Ora -- Re: Coming back . . . > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > them in yourself? > > Love, > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > vain and jealousy. > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > belief. > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > against them. > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > them... > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > years] length]. > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > my brother medicines... > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I believe that love is who you are and you can know is your story of your husband or your friend. says that no two people have ever really met. I have also heard that concept elsewhere for example the French philosopher Rousseau who said " the world is our idea " in other words our projection. The concept that many in the work conclude that love is not something you do or have, it is something that you are is one that I did not have before doing the work. I am not sure I believe it but my work experience has been " unknowing " rather than " knowing " something new. Just my 2 cents. Glenn A D wrote: Hi everyone, I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? How is it different? Maybe I lvoe my husband, but not as a husband anymore, maybe ai love everyone as friends. How do I know the difference of love in my heart without thoughts? love, Ora Shaik wrote: Dear roslyn You asked: " cant you have feelings which are not based on a projection? " My humble answer is: No. but, without stressful thought, you project love, peace happiness. because you have that all within you. so if you investigate your stressful thought, you could be able to stop suffering. that is what " the work " is all about. Love, Ora -- Re: Coming back . . . > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > them in yourself? > > Love, > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > vain and jealousy. > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > belief. > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > against them. > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > them... > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > years] length]. > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > my brother medicines... > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 > > Hi everyone, > I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? > How is it different? Hi , What crossed my mind is: " There are different kinds of love " Is that true? >How is it different? The difference might be that you probably want something different from your husband than from a friend. Love, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 As long as I get to be right, Daily I am happy Love, T -- Re: Coming back . . . , I loved your definitions of " heart " and " mind " . They started some thoughts in my " mind " ... My thought right now is that " mind " and " ego " and " heart " are simply names we have given to God, just like and/or Steve. Perhaps they are " unreal " symbols for what is truly " real " ? So, that makes Tami's concept " that they are One " true for me. And I can't really know that that is true? Love, Steve D. > > > > > > > It came to me to ask you at this point: > > > > What is the *heart* for you? > > What is the *mind*for you? > > > Hmmmm...let me see... > > > The *heart* is for me awareness, consciousness, soul, or what is > left after all stressful concepts are inquired, what is not affected > by day to day circumstances etc., what is peaceful and enduring in > me over the years. > > The *mind* is for me my thinking tool (and creator and believer in > stressful concepts). The thinking tool of the ego and where all > uninquired stressful concepts are stored and wait for inquiry. > > Most of the time I work with my mind to manage the daily > circumstances and I see glimpses of awareness for instance while > inquiring or when someone smiles to me. I see it as an instant > realisation. But most of the time separation of mind and > consciousness is my reality. > > I'm working on it...(by inquiry), > > Love, > > . > > > > > > > For me they are one, so I lost you at this point > > > > Take me from where I am at, can you? > > > > > When there are two open minds, you have two open hearts > > > and there is communication from heart to heart. There is no > story or > > > thought in between (ok, that is my story as far as I see it now). > > > If Tami smiles to me I'll smile back, if 'I' want to or not. > > > > THank you for the smile sweetie > > > > > > (I > > > won't have thoughts first, like I don't think before I pull my > hand > > > out of the fire.) > > > > So you will smile back without thinking first? > > I belive you, and I am grateful for having you in my life > > > > Smile, T > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Ora: " think, feel, act, have " not always valid.... I remember a year ago I claimed that " think feel act " is not always true And agreed with me All the rest of you people where believing this equation Now I see that you finally agree with me Not everything says you have to belive!!! T -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > them in yourself? > > > > Love, > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self- obsession, > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > against them. > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > them... > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > years] length]. > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Daily " I " was the first lie Does it makes you a liar? Just a question, no need to Grr at me Go in (not me, you!) Love, T -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > > them in yourself? > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were > dirty, > > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self- > obsession, > > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and > self- > > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people > that > > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > > against them. > > > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. > The > > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling > of 'not > > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some > time. > > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or > just > > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a > while > > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable > [4+ > > > > years] length]. > > > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was > aware > > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on > 21 > > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with > the > > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies > for > > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation > fearing > > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might > see > > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Dear My answer would be I don't know And Why do you want to know? T -- Re: Coming back . . . > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > them in yourself? > > Love, > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > vain and jealousy. > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > belief. > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > against them. > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > them... > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > years] length]. > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > my brother medicines... > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hi T, I ask myself the same question, why do I want to know? I guess maybe my mind wants to understand it. Today for the first time I went in the shower and left my kids with my inlaws, have the thought of what will happen if Husband will want to be intimate with me, that was a thought, but then I realized what I was feeling, and it was a feeling of not wanting to be with him. it is confusing, i have been wanting for us to be together for so long and today in my heart I felt I didn't want that. Don't know if I understood that with my mind or my heart or neither. Tami wrote: Dear My answer would be I don't know And Why do you want to know? T -- Re: Coming back . . . > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > them in yourself? > > Love, > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > vain and jealousy. > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > belief. > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > against them. > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > them... > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > years] length]. > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > my brother medicines... > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hi , If I want something different from a friennd than a husband, that is with my mind. If I have no thoughts then, how can i differentiate of wanting to be intimate or not intimate with someone? Just wondering, I guess the emind is alwys wondering. I'm so gratefull to have found this group to share ideas , I am so happy!! thank you, rvheyst wrote: > > Hi everyone, > I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? > How is it different? Hi , What crossed my mind is: " There are different kinds of love " Is that true? >How is it different? The difference might be that you probably want something different from your husband than from a friend. Love, . __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 > > > > There is no one out there > > > > *YOU* are always my story > > > > So, if I think: > > " I felt as if most people are plagued with the inner guilt " > > > > I would put it this way: > > > > I *had the story* that most people are plagued with the inner guilt > > > > Why would I tell that story about them??? > > > > Is it because they where really plagued with the inner guilt? > > Is it me the one who feel inner guilt and I project it on them? > > > > I don't know > > > > What do you think? > > > > Love, T > > > > > > > > -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > them in yourself? > > > > Love, > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self- obsession, > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > against them. > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > them... > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > years] length]. > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 > Hi T, Hi A, > Today for the first time I went in the shower ... Congratulation for the first shower... You *SHOULD* do it more often Ok, lets do the work! > and left my kids with my inlaws, > have the thought of what will happen if Husband will want to be intimate with me, > that was a thought, but then I realized what I was feeling, and it was a feeling of not wanting to be with him. GOOD > It is confusing, > I have been wanting for us to be together for so long and today in my heart I felt I didn't want that. Question: Being intimate means having sex? I see no confusion, nor contradiction! In the NOW You want to be with him, maybe to have a nice conversation with him... Or just hold hands... AND - You don't want to have sex with him. And it could change within the next minute! Later you might want to reap his cloths off, Tie him to bed and rape him Without having any conversation > Don't know if I understood that with my mind or my heart or neither. I hope it is not too much to ask But since you wrote this last post Have you been intimate with him? I told you, everything is ok Now, drink a glass of water And call me in the mornning Love, T (The love Dr.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Who do you want to be intimate with? Am 02.07.2006 um 01:03 schrieb A D: > Hi , > If I want something different from a friennd than a husband, that > is with my mind. > If I have no thoughts then, how can i differentiate of wanting to > be intimate or not intimate with someone? > Just wondering, I guess the emind is alwys wondering. > I'm so gratefull to have found this group to share ideas , I am > so happy!! > thank you, > > rvheyst wrote: > >> >> Hi everyone, >> I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also > in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between > loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? >> How is it different? > > Hi , > > What crossed my mind is: > > " There are different kinds of love " Is that true? > >> How is it different? > > The difference might be that you probably want something different > from your husband than from a friend. > > Love, > > . > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 > Who do you want to be intimate with? Hmmm With you Thank you for asking Love, T > > > Am 02.07.2006 um 01:03 schrieb A D: > > > Hi , > > If I want something different from a friennd than a husband, that > > is with my mind. > > If I have no thoughts then, how can i differentiate of wanting to > > be intimate or not intimate with someone? > > Just wondering, I guess the emind is alwys wondering. > > I'm so gratefull to have found this group to share ideas , I am > > so happy!! > > thank you, > > > > rvheyst wrote: > > > >> > >> Hi everyone, > >> I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also > > in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between > > loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? > >> How is it different? > > > > Hi , > > > > What crossed my mind is: > > > > " There are different kinds of love " Is that true? > > > >> How is it different? > > > > The difference might be that you probably want something different > > from your husband than from a friend. > > > > Love, > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 The difference is the difference between your story of a friend and your story of a husband. If I am your friend, what do I have to do? What is it I should not do? And what is it what would end our friendship, if I did it? You call me your friend, as long as I abide to these rules. If I am your husband, what should I not do, because you divorce when I do it? Is it really love you are talking about? In the moment you call me a friend, you impose a set of rules on me. And if I don't agree with them, it may cost me your " love " . Love, Am 01.07.2006 um 16:32 schrieb A D: > Hi everyone, > I was trying to understand that, if love was in my mind and also > in my heart.. How do I know the different kind of love between > loving a friend than loving a husband without any thoughts? > How is it different? > Maybe I lvoe my husband, but not as a husband anymore, maybe ai > love everyone as friends. How do I know the difference of love in > my heart without thoughts? > love, > > > Ora Shaik wrote: > Dear roslyn > You asked: > " cant you have feelings which are not based on a projection? " > My humble answer is: No. but, without stressful thought, you > project love, > peace happiness. because you have that all within you. > so if you investigate your stressful thought, you could be able to > stop > suffering. that is what " the work " is all about. > > Love, Ora > -- Re: Coming back . . . >> >> And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find >> them in yourself? >> >> Love, >> >> >> Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: >> >>> I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. >>> >>> In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some >>> roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, >>> muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I >>> even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, >>> vain and jealousy. >>> >>> Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of >>> liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- >>> belief. >>> >>> >>> I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... >>> >>> yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing >>> fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that >>> I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy >>> within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had >>> entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people >>> were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something >>> against them. >>> >>> I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The >>> guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not >>> doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you >>> shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having >>> lost their integrity. >>> >>> >>> And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be >>> always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect >>> something, as if something within was always at risk... >>> >>> In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. >>> As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just >>> 'talking' itself was a risk. >>> >>> I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while >>> as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for >>> them... >>> >>> >>> [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian >>> origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ >>> years] length]. >>> >>> I don't know why... >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware >>> of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 >>> course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the >>> money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for >>> my brother medicines... >>> >>> It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing >>> my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see >>> it... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Hi T and , Yes, husband goes to counseling with me. Last night we went to see the fireworks at the beach with my family, there were no thoughts and there were no walls. We were just there and it was one of the most beautifull experiences for me, I was truly happy to be there, not wanting anything , just being there. It was nice. thank you. Tami wrote: He goes to counseling with you? Sounds to me that he wants to be with you. It is a beginning Take care, T -- Re: Re: Coming back . . . Dear T, I love to do the work, I have so much fun with it, the ecstasy that comes after the questions. To answer your question, do, we have not being intimate since march, he didn t want to and seems today like it is still his choice of not wanting to be with me. that's the way it sounds when we go to counseling, Tami wrote: > Hi T, Hi A, > Today for the first time I went in the shower ... Congratulation for the first shower... You *SHOULD* do it more often Ok, lets do the work! > and left my kids with my inlaws, > have the thought of what will happen if Husband will want to be intimate with me, > that was a thought, but then I realized what I was feeling, and it was a feeling of not wanting to be with him. GOOD > It is confusing, > I have been wanting for us to be together for so long and today in my heart I felt I didn't want that. Question: Being intimate means having sex? I see no confusion, nor contradiction! In the NOW You want to be with him, maybe to have a nice conversation with him... Or just hold hands... AND - You don't want to have sex with him. And it could change within the next minute! Later you might want to reap his cloths off, Tie him to bed and rape him Without having any conversation > Don't know if I understood that with my mind or my heart or neither. I hope it is not too much to ask But since you wrote this last post Have you been intimate with him? I told you, everything is ok Now, drink a glass of water And call me in the mornning Love, T (The love Dr.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 " Everything is a projection " . Is that true? Can you absolutely know that this is true? Could the turnarounds be as true? " Nothing is a projection " . " Everything is perception " . " Everything is not a projection " . I love playing in the realm of mind, being tossed back and forth, like on the waves in the ocean. Now this, now that. " Nothing I can say is true " ... including this, which turns around to " nothing I can say is not true " and " Everything I can say is true " , which turns back around... endlessly, like the ying-yang circle. Ric > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is >To: Loving-what-is >Subject: Re: Coming back . . . >Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:22:31 -0000 > >Tami.. thanks for making it simple for me.. >I get lost in and Adithaya letters.. > >Anyway alex and tami, i felt you were both sort of invalidating >Aithya's oberservation he felt from the two different cultures.. > >cant you have feelings which are not based on a projection? >I guess you are both saying it is always a projection. > >I did have a similar experience once.. I went to a Self REalization >convocation (it was founded by an Indian ) which was a week of >lectures and prayer and meditation and great food. . and after a >week.. of peace and quiet.. i got back to the airport and you could >feel the tension and stress immediately.. >it felt creepy.. It was immediately depressing.. >I know your suppose to be able to rise above your surroundings.. >but Im not there yet.. >It wasnt just that i was depresseed its that you can feel the >difference.. so i think i know what adithaya felt.. >Maybe we are more into the material consciousness.. I dont know. > >just my 2 cents. on this. >It is maybe my projection that i felt it as depressing and adithya you >felt it was guilt --i suppose that could both be true.. depending on >how you see it. and maybe that part is projection.. >It was not good what ever it was.. its like a group consciousness >which is different for different countries.. or groups >love, roslyn > > > > >- In Loving-what-is , Tami wrote: > > > > There is no one out there > > > > *YOU* are always my story > > > > So, if I think: > > " I felt as if most people are plagued with the inner guilt " > > > > I would put it this way: > > > > I *had the story* that most people are plagued with the inner guilt > > > > Why would I tell that story about them??? > > > > Is it because they where really plagued with the inner guilt? > > Is it me the one who feel inner guilt and I project it on them? > > > > I don't know > > > > What do you think? > > > > Love, T > > > > > > > > -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > them in yourself? > > > > Love, > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > against them. > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > them... > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > years] length]. > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Thank you for sharing Ric You could be right, maybe nothing is a projection Every thought can be true And at the same time not true So while you surf the thoughts ocean Watch out from the " stressful waves " Love, T " I don't know is my favorite position after the doggy style " -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > them in yourself? > > > > Love, > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > against them. > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > them... > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > years] length]. > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Hi T, I love your sexual humor. It so breaks the stereotype of how women are supposed to act. Thank you for that. Ric > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is >To: Loving-what-is >Subject: RE: Re: Coming back . . . >Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:40:29 +0200 > >Thank you for sharing Ric >You could be right, maybe nothing is a projection > >Every thought can be true >And at the same time not true > >So while you surf the thoughts ocean >Watch out from the " stressful waves " > >Love, T > " I don't know is my favorite position after the doggy style " > > > >-- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > > them in yourself? > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self-obsession, > > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > > against them. > > > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > > years] length]. > > > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 > > > > > > > > There is no one out there > > > > > > > > *YOU* are always my story > > > > > > > > So, if I think: > > > > " I felt as if most people are plagued with the inner guilt " > > > > > > > > I would put it this way: > > > > > > > > I *had the story* that most people are plagued with the inner guilt > > > > > > > > Why would I tell that story about them??? > > > > > > > > Is it because they where really plagued with the inner guilt? > > > > Is it me the one who feel inner guilt and I project it on them? > > > > > > > > I don't know > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Love, T > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Re: Coming back . . . > > > > > > > > And all the things you saw in other people's eyes... can you find > > > > them in yourself? > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 30.06.2006 um 00:02 schrieb Adithya K: > > > > > > > > > I came back to USA after spending 3 weeks in India. > > > > > > > > > > In India, I experienced heat and humidity. I traveled on some > > > > > roads that were very jerky. I walked in the lanes that were dirty, > > > > > muddy and dark. I experienced power cuts and mosquito bites. I > > > > > even had some verbal arguments. I witnessed some self- obsession, > > > > > vain and jealousy. > > > > > > > > > > Yet, in general, I was quite peaceful. Plus, I had a feeling of > > > > > liveliness and intensity combined with openness, eagerness and self- > > > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I came to USA with high energy and enthusiasm... > > > > > > > > > > yet, due to reasons yet unknown to me, I started experiencing > > > > > fear, doubts and low-grade unease very soon. With most people that > > > > > I met, I felt as if they were afraid, as if they were uneasy > > > > > within, as if they were trying to hide something. As if I had > > > > > entered a place that was highly secretive, a place where people > > > > > were afraid as if they thought others were plotting something > > > > > against them. > > > > > > > > > > I felt as if most people are plagued with the 'inner guilt'*. The > > > > > guilt that arises when you live with the constant feeling of 'not > > > > > doing what you know you should do' and 'doing what you know you > > > > > shouldn't do'. As if they were living with a feeling of having > > > > > lost their integrity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, even in myself, I noticed a subtle fear as if I had to be > > > > > always watchful, vigilant. As if I needed to constantly protect > > > > > something, as if something within was always at risk... > > > > > > > > > > In some eyes, I saw fear that I had missed seeing for some time. > > > > > As if they thought, I was a threat or if 'talking to me' or just > > > > > 'talking' itself was a risk. > > > > > > > > > > I saw hostility in some eyes that I had missed seeing for a while > > > > > as if I was some 'unwanted' human embodying unknown dangers for > > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [interestingly, I felt this way even around people of Indian > > > > > origin too provided they have been in USA for any considerable [4+ > > > > > years] length]. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > *I guess, It is kind of 'guilt' that I might feel if I was aware > > > > > of my younger brother dying of hunger while I was feasting on 21 > > > > > course dinner with my fat wife in an expensive restaurant with the > > > > > money that my father gave me long time back to buy my supplies for > > > > > my brother medicines... > > > > > > > > > > It is kind of 'fear' that I might have in this situation fearing > > > > > my father might see it, fearing that my younger brother might see > > > > > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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