Re: Healthcare in China

[Guest guest]

When Ellen said health care in China was free, I wondered if that were true. My daughter and her family returned this summer from a trip there, and brought a student with them who stayed at their home for a few weeks. She said health care is available when you pay for it.

Ellen, I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs and needless tests.

We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have hea lth insurance, she just said matter of factly, "They die."

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing.

Seto

South Pasadena, CA

In China, health care is free

[Guest guest]

A previous post discussed the problem of "entitlement." Once a person becomes used to having something given to them, then they expect it to continue this way. Children who are bought a treat at the store even once will expect it every time you take them to the store (cautionary tale for all parents). No adult in this country would expect someone to pay for the gas or repairs for their car, someone else pointed out. But the insurance "industry" has built the expectation that you must only pay a "copay" of $10 or $20, and the insurance company, funded by your employer, will cover the rest -- no matter how large the rest becomes. Thus, we have built this expectation among the populace that health care is an entitlement, just like having nice roads to drive on, good schools for your children to attend, police and firemen at your door within 5 minutes when you're in trouble, and national parks to enjoy.

We fund all these other entitlements with our taxes, which we share amongst ourselves. Even if I never take the time to drive to Yellowstone, I don't resent that part of my tax dollars maintains the beautiful park. If my house never burns down, I don't resent the fire station being a few blocks away, and I don't mind my tax dollars going for that either. If I had no children, I would still think it was a good idea for all the children of my neighborhood to have a good education, since that would probably mean they would grow up and be something more than a gang member/drug-selling-or-taking low-life who didn't pay taxes.

What we have not decided in this country, is that health care for everyone is an entitlement. Well -- that's really not true. We've decided that everyone over 65, everyone in prison, everyone who has been in the military, everyone who lives under the poverty level, all children, all disabled people, and all government employees are entitled to health care. That actually comprises right around 50% of the population. Apparently, the other 50% of the population can go without, if they can't find a good enough job with an employer that has a profitable enough business to afford health care.

And employers can no longer afford the skyrocketing premiums, so they're just giving up and cancelling health insurance policies. Copays, co-insurance, and deductibles are climbing into the unaffordable stratosphere. And the rest of the employed and unemployed population (the ones that don't fit into those categores listed above) is going without health care -- and they're suffering and dying because of it, while they pay with their taxes for the other half of our population that's been included in those government-mandated entitlements to health care.

Now doesn't that seem grossly unfair to you? I don't see why it doesn't seem unfair to everyone else.

Deanna, FNP

Aurora, CO

My Chinese pts are elderly and have come here within the last 10+ yrs to be with children who are US citizens. I think medical care was free under the old system. I really don't know. Many of them get ultrasounds and misc other tests and meds when they go back and bring the results with them(in Chineses). They also always want copies of their lab tests because they always got them in China. My office share-mate worked in China as an ob-gyn for 4 years(just a few yrs ago). These pts do expect everything to be paid for. The new economy is changing so much in China today. I guess I picked a bad example but

I just know that I have to work hard to get these pts to pay for things not covered by Medicare like Vit D,yet they pay to travel to China. That was my point. Got mixed up the Chinese health care issue. Sorry for that. Not my intent.

Re: Healthcare in China

My recollection is that China has always run an insurance scheme.

See this http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v131/n3311/abs/131527a0.html

Ellen, I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs and needless tests.

We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health insurance, she just said matter of factly, "They die."

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing.

Seto

South Pasadena, CA

In China, health care is free

-- Graham Chiuhttp://www.compkarori.co.nz:8090/Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.

[Guest guest]

Ellen,I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs and needless tests.We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health insurance, she just said matter of factly, "They die." So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing. SetoSouth Pasadena, CAIn China, health care is free

[Guest guest]

My recollection is that China has always run an insurance scheme.See this http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v131/n3311/abs/131527a0.html

Ellen,I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs and needless tests.

We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health insurance, she just said matter of factly, " They die. "  

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing. SetoSouth Pasadena, CA

In China, health care is free

-- Graham Chiuhttp://www.compkarori.co.nz:8090/Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.

[Guest guest]

My Chinese pts are elderly and have come here within the last 10+ yrs to be with children who are US citizens. I think medical care was free under the old system. I really don't know. Many of them get ultrasounds and misc other tests and meds when they go back and bring the results with them(in Chineses). They also always want copies of their lab tests because they always got them in China. My office share-mate worked in China as an ob-gyn for 4 years(just a few yrs ago). These pts do expect everything to be paid for. The new economy is changing so much in China today. I guess I picked a bad example but

I just know that I have to work hard to get these pts to pay for things not covered by Medicare like Vit D,yet they pay to travel to China. That was my point. Got mixed up the Chinese health care issue. Sorry for that. Not my intent.

Re: Healthcare in China

My recollection is that China has always run an insurance scheme.

See this http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v131/n3311/abs/131527a0.html

Ellen,

I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs and needless tests.

We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health insurance, she just said matter of factly, "They die."

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing.

Seto

South Pasadena, CA

In China, health care is free

-- Graham Chiuhttp://www.compkarori.co.nz:8090/Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.

[Guest guest]

It’s not just the Chinese. We have

patients here that travel the globe, literally, every year. And some of them

don’t think that they should have to pay their $20 office visit copay. Yet they

can buy plane tickets to go to France,

the Middle East, India,

wherever….

Pratt

Office Manager

Oak Tree Internal Medicine P.C

www.prattmd.info

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of nellegreen@...

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010

6:44 PM

To: ;

Subject: Re:

Healthcare in China

My

Chinese pts are elderly and have come here within the last 10+ yrs to be with

children who are US citizens. I think medical care was free under the old

system. I really don't know. Many of them get ultrasounds and misc other tests

and meds when they go back and bring the results with them(in

Chineses). They also always want copies of their lab tests because they

always got them in China.

My office share-mate worked in China

as an ob-gyn for 4 years(just a few yrs ago). These pts do expect everything to

be paid for. The new economy is changing so much in China

today. I guess I picked a bad example but

I just know that I have to work hard to get these pts

to pay for things not covered by Medicare like Vit D,yet they pay to travel to China. That was

my point. Got mixed up the Chinese health care issue. Sorry for

that. Not my intent.

Re: Healthcare in China

My

recollection is that China

has always run an insurance scheme.

See this http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v131/n3311/abs/131527a0.html

Ellen,

I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it

isn't now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United

States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to

provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the

fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized

medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's

healthcare system and reduce Beijing's

role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have

been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with

good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the

best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread

of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing

ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part

because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs

and needless tests.

We visited China

over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was

paid for in China.

She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked

her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health insurance, she

just said matter of factly, " They die. "

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing.

Seto

South Pasadena,

CA

In China,

health care is free

--

Graham Chiu

http://www.compkarori.co.nz:8090/

Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.

[Guest guest]

Totally agree w you. I think this country is not run so much on common sense and fairness but who has the most money to lobby and buy off politicians. They need to stop that, make it illegal, then maybe decisions will be made with an unbiased mind. Ah the beauty of capitalism and freedom of speech. I have become pro union it seems they only way to counter the powers of powerful business w deep pockets. We should all unionize too. It would have to be ALL of us, then things would happen in our favor

 

A previous post discussed the problem of " entitlement. "   Once a person becomes used to having something given to them, then they expect it to continue this way.  Children who are bought a treat at the store even once will expect it every time you take them to the store (cautionary tale for all parents).  No adult in this country would expect someone to pay for the gas or repairs for their car, someone else pointed out.  But the insurance " industry " has built the expectation that you must only pay a " copay " of $10 or $20, and the insurance company, funded by your employer, will cover the rest -- no matter how large the rest becomes.  Thus, we have built this expectation among the populace that health care is an entitlement, just like having nice roads to drive on, good schools for your children to attend, police and firemen at your door within 5 minutes when you're in trouble, and national parks to enjoy.

 

We fund all these other entitlements with our taxes, which we share amongst ourselves.  Even if I never take the time to drive to Yellowstone, I don't resent that part of my tax dollars maintains the beautiful park.  If my house never burns down, I don't resent the fire station being a few blocks away, and I don't mind my tax dollars going for that either.  If I had no children, I would still think it was a good idea for all the children of my neighborhood to have a good education, since that would probably mean they would grow up and be something more than a gang member/drug-selling-or-taking low-life who didn't pay taxes. 

 

What we have not decided in this country, is that health care for everyone is an entitlement.  Well -- that's really not true.  We've decided that everyone over 65, everyone in prison, everyone who has been in the military, everyone who lives under the poverty level, all children, all disabled people, and all government employees are entitled to health care.  That actually comprises right around 50% of the population.  Apparently, the other 50% of the population can go without, if they can't find a good enough job with an employer that has a profitable enough business to afford health care. 

 

And employers can no longer afford the skyrocketing premiums, so they're just giving up and cancelling health insurance policies.  Copays, co-insurance, and deductibles are climbing into the unaffordable stratosphere.  And the rest of the employed and unemployed population (the ones that don't fit into those categores listed above) is going without health care -- and they're suffering and dying because of it, while they pay with their taxes for the other half of our population that's been included in those government-mandated entitlements to health care. 

 

Now doesn't that seem grossly unfair to you?  I don't see why it doesn't seem unfair to everyone else.

 

Deanna, FNP

Aurora, CO

 

 

My Chinese pts are elderly and have come here within the last 10+ yrs to be with children who are US citizens.  I think medical care was free under the old system. I really don't know. Many of them get ultrasounds and misc other tests and meds when they go back and bring the results with them(in Chineses).  They also always want copies of their lab tests because they always got them in China.  My office share-mate worked in China as an ob-gyn for 4 years(just a few yrs ago). These pts do expect everything to be paid for. The new economy is changing so much in China today. I guess I picked a bad example but

I just know that I have to work hard to get these pts to pay for things not covered by Medicare like Vit D,yet they pay to travel to China. That was my point.  Got mixed up the Chinese health care issue.  Sorry for that.  Not my intent.

Re: Healthcare in China  

My recollection is that China has always run an insurance scheme.

See this http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v131/n3311/abs/131527a0.html

Ellen, I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe pricey drugs and needless tests.

We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health insurance, she just said matter of factly, " They die. "  

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing.

Seto

South Pasadena, CA

In China, health care is free

-- Graham Chiuhttp://www.compkarori.co.nz:8090/

Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.

-- M.D.www.elainemd.comOffice:

Go in the directions of your dreams and live the life you've imagined.This email transmission may contain protected and privileged, highly confidential medical, Personal and Health Information (PHI) and/or legal information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.

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[Guest guest]

Good points, but providing insurance to all will not stop the rapid increase in cost, it will only drive it faster. We don't really " share the cost amoung us " either since about 20% of people pay for 100% of the cost. This is not fair, it is forced charity.

Charity that is forced is income redistribution. It was never the intent of the original writers of the constitution that there would be entitlements.

From: [ ] On Behalf Of tolpeople@... [tolpeople@...]

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:04 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Healthcare in China

A previous post discussed the problem of " entitlement. " Once a person becomes used to having something given to them, then they expect it to continue this way. Children who are bought a treat at the store even once will expect it every time you take

them to the store (cautionary tale for all parents). No adult in this country would expect someone to pay for the gas or repairs for their car, someone else pointed out. But the insurance " industry " has built the expectation that you must only pay a " copay "

of $10 or $20, and the insurance company, funded by your employer, will cover the rest -- no matter how large the rest becomes. Thus, we have built this expectation among the populace that health care is an entitlement, just like having nice roads to drive

on, good schools for your children to attend, police and firemen at your door within 5 minutes when you're in trouble, and national parks to enjoy.

We fund all these other entitlements with our taxes, which we share amongst ourselves. Even if I never take the time to drive to Yellowstone, I don't resent that part of my tax dollars maintains the beautiful park. If my house never burns down, I don't

resent the fire station being a few blocks away, and I don't mind my tax dollars going for that either. If I had no children, I would still think it was a good idea for all the children of my neighborhood to have a good education, since that would probably

mean they would grow up and be something more than a gang member/drug-selling-or-taking low-life who didn't pay taxes.

What we have not decided in this country, is that health care for everyone is an entitlement. Well -- that's really not true. We've decided that everyone over 65, everyone in prison, everyone who has been in the military, everyone who lives under the

poverty level, all children, all disabled people, and all government employees are entitled to health care. That actually comprises right around 50% of the population. Apparently, the other 50% of the population can go without, if they can't find a good

enough job with an employer that has a profitable enough business to afford health care.

And employers can no longer afford the skyrocketing premiums, so they're just giving up and cancelling health insurance policies. Copays, co-insurance, and deductibles are climbing into the unaffordable stratosphere. And the rest of the employed and

unemployed population (the ones that don't fit into those categores listed above) is going without health care -- and they're suffering and dying because of it, while they pay with their taxes for the other half of our population that's been included in those

government-mandated entitlements to health care.

Now doesn't that seem grossly unfair to you? I don't see why it doesn't seem unfair to everyone else.

Deanna, FNP

Aurora, CO

My Chinese pts are elderly and have come here within the last 10+ yrs to be with children who are US citizens. I think medical care was free under the old system. I really don't know. Many of them get ultrasounds and misc other tests and meds when they

go back and bring the results with them(in Chineses). They also always want copies of their lab tests because they always got them in China. My office share-mate worked in China as an ob-gyn for 4 years(just a few yrs ago). These pts do expect everything

to be paid for. The new economy is changing so much in China today. I guess I picked a bad example but

I just know that I have to work hard to get these pts to pay for things not covered by Medicare like Vit D,yet they pay to travel to China. That was my point. Got mixed up the Chinese health care issue. Sorry for that. Not my intent.

Re: Healthcare in China

My recollection is that China has always run an insurance scheme.

See this http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v131/n3311/abs/131527a0.html

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Seto

wrote:

Ellen,

I don't know if healthcare in China was ever totally free, but it isn't now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/11/business/la-fi-china-hospital11-2010feb11

At a time when the United States is grappling to overhaul its healthcare system to provide more Americans with coverage, China is struggling with the fallout of

abandoning its socialist model in favor of Western-style privatized medicine. Government efforts to modernize China's healthcare system and reduce Beijing's role have led to deep funding cuts for public hospitals. Rural clinics have been hit especially hard.

The results are familiar to many Americans: Patients with good health insurance or ample savings can get first-class treatment at the best medical facilities, while millions

of the uninsured and poor live in dread of a serious illness that could bankrupt their families. Hospitals are focusing ruthlessly on the bottom line to stay afloat. Costs are soaring, in part because of perverse incentives that encourage doctors to prescribe

pricey drugs and needless tests.

We visited China over the summer, and I asked our tour guide about healthcare and how it was paid for in China. She said most people had health insurance through their jobs now. When I asked her what happened to people who got sick and didn't have health

insurance, she just said matter of factly, " They die. "

So sometimes, being more like the US is not a good thing.

Seto

South Pasadena, CA

In China, health care is free

--

Graham Chiu

http://www.compkarori.co.nz:8090/

Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.