Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this the causal link?

February 27, 2007

I now have Barretts esophogus

Janet

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February 27, 2007

I'm glad you read that Live, I meant to point it out to you, I

remembered you saying you had gerd. I have terrible influx? lack of

acid in my stomach(what ever) and I cant burp and it hurts, it may

not be in the diet plan but I dont care, I do what works to get by. I

cant drink soft drinks with corn products in them but can drink diet

pepsi and it helps me burp and keeps this condiction from makeing me

tottally miserable. yes, I know, save the lectures, please.

>

> Thanks to following a link Jeanine posted a few days ago, I think

that

> THANKS TO HER POINTING IT OUT I've found a host of new research on

the

> web that IMO establishes the link between aspergillus in the air in

a

> sick building and esophagitis / reflux disease in a major,

unassilable

> way.

>

> Its apparently one of a family of " Eosinophilic " conditions that

> appear to be not mycosis but they ARE immunological reactions to

> aspergillus, etc. and possibly other aeroallergens and they can be

> severe..

>

> There is a condition called Eosinophilic Esophagitis that has been

> known for some time. Its NOT GERD, but to a odctor it looks just

like

> GERD.

>

> But its not. Its caused by toxic mold making the immune system react

> very strongly.

> Can you blame it? NO. Its a natural reaction.

>

> High levels of aspergillus CREATED THIS CONDITION IN MICE in

experiments.

>

> They did NOT have it before.

>

> There are lots of other eosonophilic conditions that are probably

> caused by mold.

> They seem to spread...

>

> See:

>

> An etiological role for aeroallergens and eosinophils in

experimental

> esophagitis

>

> Anil Mishra, Simon P. Hogan, B. Brandt, and Marc E. Rothenberg

> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?

artid=198543 & tools=bot

>

> and also

>

> An Etiological Role for Aeroallergens and Eosinophils in

Experimental

> Esophagitis

> M. , MD

>

> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/110/2/S1/436

>

> and probably more...

>

February 27, 2007

THANK U SO MUCH for posting this

I am only 24 and supposively GERD is so bad that I havent been able to really

swallow with out choking in 6 months. We had so many types of mold growing

through our olf house it was like a rainbow. I started getting terrible hives

headaches confussion wierd lumps, hysterical and terrible problems swallowing

stomach always upset. My fiance thought I had lost my mind. But we moved a

month ago and I am a little better no more hives but still having problems

swallowing and really strange sinus problems. Hope It will completely go away

soon. Anyways, Thanks

mia

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

Thanks to following a link Jeanine posted a few days ago, I think that

THANKS TO HER POINTING IT OUT I've found a host of new research on the

web that IMO establishes the link between aspergillus in the air in a

sick building and esophagitis / reflux disease in a major, unassilable

way.

Its apparently one of a family of " Eosinophilic " conditions that

appear to be not mycosis but they ARE immunological reactions to

aspergillus, etc. and possibly other aeroallergens and they can be

severe..

There is a condition called Eosinophilic Esophagitis that has been

known for some time. Its NOT GERD, but to a odctor it looks just like

GERD.

But its not. Its caused by toxic mold making the immune system react

very strongly.

Can you blame it? NO. Its a natural reaction.

High levels of aspergillus CREATED THIS CONDITION IN MICE in experiments.

They did NOT have it before.

There are lots of other eosonophilic conditions that are probably

caused by mold.

They seem to spread...

See:

An etiological role for aeroallergens and eosinophils in experimental

esophagitis

Anil Mishra, Simon P. Hogan, B. Brandt, and Marc E. Rothenberg

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=198543 & tools=bot

and also

An Etiological Role for Aeroallergens and Eosinophils in Experimental

Esophagitis

M. , MD

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/110/2/S1/436

and probably more...

MIA KNIPPEL

February 27, 2007

I have acid reflux. I was prescribed Nexxium but now my insurance

does not cover it so I use an over the counter medication. I

remember someone on here once said Nexxium had an antifungal drug in

it.

I did not have reflux until I had my illness with mold. It seems to

be worse when I am having an asthma attack. Often a doctor will try

to say it is reflux causing the coughing and such but I know these

are 2 seperate conditions going on. I can get rid of the coughing

many times by doing a nebulizer treatment but I have to treat the

reflux seperately.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Thanks to following a link Jeanine posted a few days ago, I think

that

> THANKS TO HER POINTING IT OUT I've found a host of new research on

the

> web that IMO establishes the link between aspergillus in the air in

a

> sick building and esophagitis / reflux disease in a major,

unassilable

> way.

>

> Its apparently one of a family of " Eosinophilic " conditions that

> appear to be not mycosis but they ARE immunological reactions to

> aspergillus, etc. and possibly other aeroallergens and they can be

> severe..

>

> There is a condition called Eosinophilic Esophagitis that has been

> known for some time. Its NOT GERD, but to a odctor it looks just

like

> GERD.

>

> But its not. Its caused by toxic mold making the immune system react

> very strongly.

> Can you blame it? NO. Its a natural reaction.

>

> High levels of aspergillus CREATED THIS CONDITION IN MICE in

experiments.

>

> They did NOT have it before.

>

> There are lots of other eosonophilic conditions that are probably

> caused by mold.

> They seem to spread...

>

> See:

>

> An etiological role for aeroallergens and eosinophils in

experimental

> esophagitis

>

> Anil Mishra, Simon P. Hogan, B. Brandt, and Marc E. Rothenberg

> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?

artid=198543 & tools=bot

>

> and also

>

> An Etiological Role for Aeroallergens and Eosinophils in

Experimental

> Esophagitis

> M. , MD

>

> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/110/2/S1/436

>

> and probably more...

>

February 27, 2007

Jeanine,

Have you ever heard of carnosine?

Carnosine (and mold avoidance) seems to be helping heal mine a lot.

But the thought of it coming back terrifies me.

It sounds like you are taking a high dose of a proton pump inhibitor.. like

prilosec or

prevacid.

Have you ever tried taking digestive enzymes like those chewable papaya

pills.. bromelain, etc?

Or even the non-chewable ones with betaine HCL are good..

and cheaper..

**

On 2/27/07, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> I'm glad you read that Live, I meant to point it out to you, I

> remembered you saying you had gerd. I have terrible influx? lack of

> acid in my stomach(what ever) and I cant burp and it hurts, it may

> not be in the diet plan but I dont care, I do what works to get by. I

> cant drink soft drinks with corn products in them but can drink diet

> pepsi and it helps me burp and keeps this condiction from makeing me

> tottally miserable. yes, I know, save the lectures, please.--- In

>

February 27, 2007

All of you people who have this need to see doctors.. and you really

need to see gastroenterologists..

Please don't just limp through life.. You (we!) need to get this treated.

Prilosec will only help so much..

If it ever gets really bad you'll never be the same again.. You start

inhaling stomach acid and your throat swells up and you can't drink or

breathe. When that happened to me it was absolute hell. I couldn't

work for almost a year. I couldn't sleep. A lot like Jeanine.

Its absolutely terrifying.

February 27, 2007

Live, I'm not takeing anything,no inhibitors, no nothing. but I will

check out Carnosine.thanks

> >

> > I'm glad you read that Live, I meant to point it out to you, I

> > remembered you saying you had gerd. I have terrible influx? lack

of

> > acid in my stomach(what ever) and I cant burp and it hurts, it may

> > not be in the diet plan but I dont care, I do what works to get

by. I

> > cant drink soft drinks with corn products in them but can drink

diet

> > pepsi and it helps me burp and keeps this condiction from makeing

me

> > tottally miserable. yes, I know, save the lectures, please.--- In

> >

>

February 27, 2007

Live,

There is a problem though w/seeing doctors sometimes. First you have to get

them to agree you have a problem. We have been to 3 gastro doctors. All of

which practice out of one of the leading hospitals here. They insist this does

not effect kids. One of the doctors saw my daughter the night I brought her to

the ER because the pain was so bad, I thought she was having a heart attack or

something. They have told me she is a 100% healthy child. (geez, that just

makes me so mad when they say that) My grandmother has run into the same

problem. The have told her not to eat or drink 2-3 hours before going to bed.

It's kinda like the mold issue. If they are not going to agree and help, then

after awhile you just give up and try to fix it yourself. We have been able to

do this 95% effective thru diet. Unless she is re-exposed to mold. But, even

then it isn't like it was. I am not disagreeing w/you. Just stating that it is

not just as easy as seeing a doctor and getting diagnosed and getting medication

for some of us. You must have wonderful luck w/doctors. Our luck pretty much

sucks w/doctors.

I do agree that this does seem to get worse w/exposure.

Re: [] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this the

causal link?

All of you people who have this need to see doctors.. and you really

need to see gastroenterologists..

Please don't just limp through life.. You (we!) need to get this treated.

Prilosec will only help so much..

If it ever gets really bad you'll never be the same again.. You start

inhaling stomach acid and your throat swells up and you can't drink or

breathe. When that happened to me it was absolute hell. I couldn't

work for almost a year. I couldn't sleep. A lot like Jeanine.

Its absolutely terrifying.

February 27, 2007

Yes, I too have had improper diagnosis, endoscopy, ph test, barium

swallow, they say I have gerd put me on protonix, it didn't help, so

they tripled dosage and added antinausea, nitro, benadryl, and said

dont eat or drink 3 hours before bed. I asked them how I was supposed

to swaLLOW my pills they said keep trying. It is rediculous after the

tripple dose which costs over 1000 month i still have no results,

lost job, lost insurance, 10000 in medical bills, applied for

disability lost 60 lbs and still cant swallow. This is while under

treatment of gastro specialist. If you guys have had any results

with meds let me know.

Mia

>

> Live,

> There is a problem though w/seeing doctors sometimes. First you

have to get them to agree you have a problem. We have been to 3

gastro doctors. All of which practice out of one of the leading

hospitals here. They insist this does not effect kids. One of the

doctors saw my daughter the night I brought her to the ER because the

pain was so bad, I thought she was having a heart attack or

something. They have told me she is a 100% healthy child. (geez,

that just makes me so mad when they say that) My grandmother has run

into the same problem. The have told her not to eat or drink 2-3

hours before going to bed. It's kinda like the mold issue. If they

are not going to agree and help, then after awhile you just give up

and try to fix it yourself. We have been able to do this 95%

effective thru diet. Unless she is re-exposed to mold. But, even

then it isn't like it was. I am not disagreeing w/you. Just stating

that it is not just as easy as seeing a doctor and getting diagnosed

and getting medication for some of us. You must have wonderful luck

w/doctors. Our luck pretty much sucks w/doctors.

> I do agree that this does seem to get worse w/exposure.

>

> Re: [] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is

this the causal link?

>

> All of you people who have this need to see doctors.. and you

really

> need to see gastroenterologists..

>

> Please don't just limp through life.. You (we!) need to get this

treated.

>

> Prilosec will only help so much..

>

> If it ever gets really bad you'll never be the same again.. You

start

> inhaling stomach acid and your throat swells up and you can't

drink or

> breathe. When that happened to me it was absolute hell. I couldn't

> work for almost a year. I couldn't sleep. A lot like Jeanine.

>

> Its absolutely terrifying.

>

February 27, 2007

Live, I live in the state of missery, well thats what some call it.

lol's, translated- the show me state, need I say more?

> > >

> > > I'm glad you read that Live, I meant to point it out to you, I

> > > remembered you saying you had gerd. I have terrible influx?

lack

> of

> > > acid in my stomach(what ever) and I cant burp and it hurts, it

may

> > > not be in the diet plan but I dont care, I do what works to get

> by. I

> > > cant drink soft drinks with corn products in them but can drink

> diet

> > > pepsi and it helps me burp and keeps this condiction from

makeing

> me

> > > tottally miserable. yes, I know, save the lectures, please.---

In

> > >

> >

February 27, 2007

You are right Live. This stuff is horrible. My insurance will not pay

for any of the Nexxium which helped me more than anything. Right now I

am using Prilosec as a temp fix. This is what the dcotor told me to

take since insurance will not pay for Nexxium. However, I saw a

commerical the other day that Nexxium makers will help a person without

insurance. Now that I am thinking about this, I am going to google

Nexxium to see if I can find more information.

As far as what you said reflux does, you are 100% right and thanks for

sharing this with others. What got me back in the doctor was one night

I spit the acid up and inhaled it in my sleep! Talking about a horrible

scary thing! I could had choked to death. So anyway, you are right,

this is not something to play around with.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> All of you people who have this need to see doctors.. and you really

> need to see gastroenterologists..

>

> Please don't just limp through life.. You (we!) need to get this

treated.

>

> Prilosec will only help so much..

>

> If it ever gets really bad you'll never be the same again.. You start

> inhaling stomach acid and your throat swells up and you can't drink or

> breathe. When that happened to me it was absolute hell. I couldn't

> work for almost a year. I couldn't sleep. A lot like Jeanine.

>

> Its absolutely terrifying.

>

February 27, 2007

So what you guys are telling me is this can get worse than it already has been?

The only way to fix it is w/medication? This is not a jerkish question. I

really want to know. I just can't imagine it getting worse. But, geez after

listening to some you it gets more horrible. If it does then I'm going to have

to arm myself w/documents before our next doctors visit. Ask him how it's no

big deal, how is she going to outgrow this? That's the answer to everything:

She'll outgrow it. But, now I'm concerned.

[] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this the causal

link?

You are right Live. This stuff is horrible. My insurance will not pay

for any of the Nexxium which helped me more than anything. Right now I

am using Prilosec as a temp fix. This is what the dcotor told me to

take since insurance will not pay for Nexxium. However, I saw a

commerical the other day that Nexxium makers will help a person without

insurance.

Recent Activity

a.. 10New Members

Visit Your Group

February 27, 2007

Mia,

I am so sorry to hear how sick you are. I have no suggestions as I am just

learning how serious this can become. But, I hope one day you will find

something that works.

[] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this the causal

link?

Yes, I too have had improper diagnosis, endoscopy, ph test, barium

swallow, they say I have gerd put me on protonix, it didn't help, so

they tripled dosage and added antinausea, nitro, benadryl, and said

dont eat or drink 3 hours before bed.

Recent Activity

a.. 10New Members

Visit Your Group

February 28, 2007

One needs meds to heal the erosions. I guess they can heal on their

own but I would not chance it. By far, the best medication I use for

it was Nexxium but it is very expensive. Changing the diet helps too.

>

> So what you guys are telling me is this can get worse than it

already has been? The only way to fix it is w/medication? This is

not a jerkish question. I really want to know. I just can't imagine

it getting worse. But, geez after listening to some you it gets more

horrible. If it does then I'm going to have to arm myself

w/documents before our next doctors visit. Ask him how it's no big

deal, how is she going to outgrow this? That's the answer to

everything: She'll outgrow it. But, now I'm concerned.

>

> [] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this

the causal link?

>

> You are right Live. This stuff is horrible. My insurance will not

pay

> for any of the Nexxium which helped me more than anything. Right

now I

> am using Prilosec as a temp fix. This is what the dcotor told me

to

> take since insurance will not pay for Nexxium. However, I saw a

> commerical the other day that Nexxium makers will help a person

without

> insurance.

> Recent Activity

> a.. 10New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

February 28, 2007

Mia,

OMG.. look, you should try OTC prilosec first. Its not the best PPI out

there (for me Prevacid has been much better)

but it works. And a months supply should cost $50 or so..

You should take whatever it takes to get symptomatic relief, which when I

was really bad was 3x a day ASK A DOCTOR, PLEASE..

In order to work, PPIs in general but especially OTC prilosec (because its

not enterically coated) needs to be taken on

a completely empty stomach and not taken after cholestyramine either.

I tried protonix, I tried Aciphex neither worked for me. High doses of

Prilosec also seemed to be making me lose my hearing so I couldn't take

them.. (but NAC might stop that.. NAC seems to help things like that)

It was the worst nightmare you could ever imagine.. the EE. I spent months

in bed.. I couldn't eat or drink. I could barely swallow the pills. I lost a

huge amount of weight.

Now I am taking 30 mg Prevacid 2 x a day and the 2x is enough but for so

long 2x was NOT enough and just the little healing that it has taken to get

me to where I am now and can sleep on a normal bed.. (without the head

lifted up at least 5 or 6 inches) has taken YEARS..

I personally think that this erupting ear thing and erupting chest thing

that I have is related to eosinophilic esophagitis..

The last time i had an endoscopy I was conscious as the thing went into me

(I didn't have a ride home so they could not give me the serious anesthesia)

and i was watching on the screen as the camera went in and I saw the ridges

on my esophagus just like in the pictures..

And our aspergillius /penicillium counts were very high and that was on the

morning of a calm, good day.. at other times it was far worse..

On 2/27/07, Knippel <windigo5150@...> wrote:

>

> Yes, I too have had improper diagnosis, endoscopy, ph test, barium

> swallow, they say I have gerd put me on protonix, it didn't help, so

> they tripled dosage and added antinausea, nitro, benadryl, and said

> dont eat or drink 3 hours before bed. I asked them how I was supposed

> to swaLLOW my pills they said keep trying. It is rediculous after the

> tripple dose which costs over 1000 month i still have no results,

> lost job, lost insurance, 10000 in medical bills, applied for

> disability lost 60 lbs and still cant swallow. This is while under

> treatment of gastro specialist. If you guys have had any results

> with meds let me know.

>

> Mia

>

> >

> > Live,

> > There is a problem though w/seeing doctors sometimes. First you

> have to get them to agree you have a problem. We have been to 3

> gastro doctors. All of which practice out of one of the leading

> hospitals here. They insist this does not effect kids. One of the

> doctors saw my daughter the night I brought her to the ER because the

> pain was so bad, I thought she was having a heart attack or

> something. They have told me she is a 100% healthy child. (geez,

> that just makes me so mad when they say that) My grandmother has run

> into the same problem. The have told her not to eat or drink 2-3

> hours before going to bed. It's kinda like the mold issue. If they

> are not going to agree and help, then after awhile you just give up

> and try to fix it yourself. We have been able to do this 95%

> effective thru diet. Unless she is re-exposed to mold. But, even

> then it isn't like it was. I am not disagreeing w/you. Just stating

> that it is not just as easy as seeing a doctor and getting diagnosed

> and getting medication for some of us. You must have wonderful luck

> w/doctors. Our luck pretty much sucks w/doctors.

> > I do agree that this does seem to get worse w/exposure.

> >

> > Re: [] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is

> this the causal link?

> >

> > All of you people who have this need to see doctors.. and you

> really

> > need to see gastroenterologists..

> >

> > Please don't just limp through life.. You (we!) need to get this

> treated.

> >

> > Prilosec will only help so much..

> >

> > If it ever gets really bad you'll never be the same again.. You

> start

> > inhaling stomach acid and your throat swells up and you can't

> drink or

> > breathe. When that happened to me it was absolute hell. I couldn't

> > work for almost a year. I couldn't sleep. A lot like Jeanine.

> >

> > Its absolutely terrifying.

> >

February 28, 2007

hmmmm. Well as we all can tell I don't know much about this subject. Never

until today gave this another thought.

So, the meds help the erosions heal. (I'll look the erosion thing up-hehehe)

Time to do some more homework. Geez, today I feel like I am cramming for a

college exam. LOL

But, heck I am leaning alot. We should start our own clinic here. hehehe

[] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this

the causal link?

>

> You are right Live. This stuff is horrible. My insurance will not

pay

> for any of the Nexxium which helped me more than anything. Right

now I

> am using Prilosec as a temp fix. This is what the dcotor told me

to

> take since insurance will not pay for Nexxium. However, I saw a

> commerical the other day that Nexxium makers will help a person

without

> insurance.

> Recent Activity

> a.. 10New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

February 28, 2007

Sorry, one other question. Somehow I am going to press this issue. Gotta do it

so they really don't think I am. (you know what I mean) Are all medications

for kids and adults the same? Guess, I am trying to find out if there is a

medication I should try and ask for. They are atleast good w/that. If I'd

rather try another med that has the same effect they generally let me use it.

[] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this

the causal link?

>

> You are right Live. This stuff is horrible. My insurance will not

pay

> for any of the Nexxium which helped me more than anything. Right

now I

> am using Prilosec as a temp fix. This is what the dcotor told me

to

> take since insurance will not pay for Nexxium. However, I saw a

> commerical the other day that Nexxium makers will help a person

without

> insurance.

> Recent Activity

> a.. 10New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

February 28, 2007

Everyone who thinks they have this should read the Mishra paper. It

looks like that is what is happening with me, I am almost sure. But I

am NOT a doctor.

By the way, this is diagnosed more often in children than adults. But

the numbers are inexplicably rising FAST. Its a new disease.. they

only recently figured out the mold connection too.. (2005 I think) so

GI doctors should be given slack as they might not be keeping up on

all this.

I do have a good GI doctor, though.. who I am going to talk to about

this as soon as he gets back from his vacation.

If there is anything I am learning is that we really have to be

proactive about our health care and nicely demand that they engage. I

suspect that doctors, like so many other workers, just go through life

in a sort od daze and deal with things as they come up snap snap snap.

HMO medicine is really under pressure. They have basically 6 to 8

minutes to spend with each patient. So if you have an HMO plan or not,

and you have some issue like this you NEED TO FIND A GOOD SPECIALIST

WHO IS ALSO IN YOUR PLAN.

If you can, call around BEFORE getting the referral.

You know, I could ask my doctor for hints on getting a good GI doctor

locally. I will post what I find out.

What would be the best would be to find someone who both does research

(in a teaching hospital usually) and who also has a private

practice...

Its a job but think of how much of a difference it makes.

February 28, 2007

There is a school of thought and books about this, that reflux is

actually a symptom of too little stomach acid where the food fails to

be properly broken down and comes back up. The treatment would be

betaine HCL, I believe. I don't claim to know a lot about this, but I

remember once doing a self-test for stomach acidity with bicarbonate

and water. I have read about this in other groups. An Internet search

might prove helpful here. I think it was a Dr. who wrote the

book, but not sure. I just thought for those who are not getting good

results with their care this might be something to check out.

-