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Unfortunately the pay is not going to go up any time soon. There are too

many people out there who are willing to work for such a low pay just to

be on a box and run 911. Our pay will not increase until we become

educated, and if you have a degree it still does not matter, yet. When

they require everyone to be licensed then the pay will increase we will

be worth something then. A nail technician has to have a license, they

are worth more than us. I am just as pissed as you guys but it is our

fault for being too lazy to go back to school and demand to be called a

professional, not an ambulance driver. If we all get off our butts we

can do it and make more money. This includes myself. I'll go back to

school if everyone else will. Right now a licensed medic is no better

than a certified medic. Just my 2 cents.

EMT-P certified and lazy(shame on me)

>From -return-1599-kasyd=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Thu

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>From: Toni6@... ( AAAAAAAAAAAAAA A FOR ME TO KNOW)

>Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:35:02, -0500

>To: egroups

>Subject: [] EMS Pay

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Well said and I can't agree more. Having lived in many areas I know

these places exsist but for now I will put up with texas and give up

on that place that will pay me what I am worth. When I leave I will

begin that search again.

toni

After reading the most recent posts on this server, a few questions

come to my mind.

1. How can we as a group make some of these employers pay

some of our kindred what they are worth?

2. If we cannot make them & #34;ante up & #34;, how can we make ourselves

more valuable?

3. Is there some way we can get the support of legislators and/or

state officials in this seemingly eternal battle?

SHEESH, those questions were easy to ask, but unfortunately,

the answers never come forth. As EMS personnel, it is our

responsibility to serve the public to the best of our ability. I

guess

we automatically expect our employers to & #34;take care & #34; of us with

the

same enthusiasm. When this does not occur, we get upset. Some

of the solutions may not be as difficult as once thought.

Increasing

the requirements of certification has worked in some states, but

they

have not been totally effective. Some people in the business are

saying

that the recent paramedic shortages are an indication that our

personnel

are leaving the business which will eventually drive up wages.

Still

others

say, & #34;Wait till ya get a load of the new DOT paramedic, no one is

gonna

go through that! & #34; If they don't & #34;go through that & #34;, well

that just

raises our

value even more. I am sure if everyone in the state can get

somewhere

near the same page, we can begin to do something about the problem.

But, the problem didn't begin last month or even last year. It has

been

going on for several years and the solutions will not come overnight.

If

you do want it to change overnight, well then I suggest you pack

your

bags

and move to somewhere that pays their personnel what they are worth.

Those places DO EXIST!! Some people say that money does not bring

happiness. Well, that is true but I would rather be happy in a nice

brick

house rather than happy in a nice three-room shack. If you have a

suggestion

on how to help with this situation, POST IT! or send private mail.

I

won't

claim to lead the charge, but myself and many others would be willing

to

join the group. Just maybe it is time to speak out somewhere other

than

a list server. That is my 2 cents worth and then some.

Have a safe and happy New Year,

Lt. Gates FF/EMT-P C/E

Lufkin Fire Dept.

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In a message dated 12/31/98 11:52:42 PM Central Standard Time,

kasyd@... writes:

> If we all get off our butts we

> can do it and make more money. This includes myself. I'll go back to

> school if everyone else will. Right now a licensed medic is no better

> than a certified medic. Just my 2 cents.

>

> EMT-P certified and lazy(shame on me)

,

I commend you for considering returning to school and obtaining a degree.

Education in any field can only be beneficial to you, your employer, and your

patients. I hope that others will realized, as you have done, that education

and licensing will help us as EMS providers obtain higher wages and better

benefits.

, BS, EMT/P

DFW Airport DPS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I have to agree with you, right now a licensed medic is no better off than

us certified medics. But, when the licensure does come thru, how many

services are going to be will to pay more for a licensed medic, when there

are those out there that certified and will work for the $6-8 hr for the

experience. Most CNA's in a nursing home make more than we do.....not

that's bad. Because we save people's lives and make less.

[] EMS Pay

>>Content-Type: text/html

>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>

>

>

><table><tr><td><pre>

>Well said and I can't agree more. Having lived in many areas I know

>these places exsist but for now I will put up with texas and give up

>on that place that will pay me what I am worth. When I leave I will

>begin that search again.

>

>toni

>

>After reading the most recent posts on this server, a few questions

>come to my mind.

>1. How can we as a group make some of these employers pay

> some of our kindred what they are worth?

>2. If we cannot make them & #34;ante up & #34;, how can we make ourselves

> more valuable?

>3. Is there some way we can get the support of legislators and/or

> state officials in this seemingly eternal battle?

>

>SHEESH, those questions were easy to ask, but unfortunately,

>the answers never come forth. As EMS personnel, it is our

>responsibility to serve the public to the best of our ability. I

>guess

>we automatically expect our employers to & #34;take care & #34; of us with

>the

>same enthusiasm. When this does not occur, we get upset. Some

>of the solutions may not be as difficult as once thought.

>Increasing

>the requirements of certification has worked in some states, but

>they

>have not been totally effective. Some people in the business are

>saying

>

>that the recent paramedic shortages are an indication that our

>personnel

>

>are leaving the business which will eventually drive up wages.

>Still

>others

>say, & #34;Wait till ya get a load of the new DOT paramedic, no one is

>gonna

>go through that! & #34; If they don't & #34;go through that & #34;, well

>that just

>raises our

>value even more. I am sure if everyone in the state can get

>somewhere

>near the same page, we can begin to do something about the problem.

>But, the problem didn't begin last month or even last year. It has

>been

>

>going on for several years and the solutions will not come overnight.

>

>If

>you do want it to change overnight, well then I suggest you pack

>your

>bags

>and move to somewhere that pays their personnel what they are worth.

>Those places DO EXIST!! Some people say that money does not bring

>happiness. Well, that is true but I would rather be happy in a nice

>brick

>house rather than happy in a nice three-room shack. If you have a

>suggestion

>on how to help with this situation, POST IT! or send private mail.

>I

>won't

>claim to lead the charge, but myself and many others would be willing

>to

>

>join the group. Just maybe it is time to speak out somewhere other

>than

>

>a list server. That is my 2 cents worth and then some.

>

>Have a safe and happy New Year,

>

>Lt. Gates FF/EMT-P C/E

>Lufkin Fire Dept.

>

>

>

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> align= " center " >Archaeology. Biology. Ecology. Geology.

>Meteorology. Findology? Hundreds of expert human guides to lead you

>through thousands of topics.

>Explore The Mining Co. <a

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HEY TONI 6

YOU SAID THAT YOU HAD SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW

THAT BEAUMONT IS 90 MILES AWAY FROM HOUSTON AND TEXAS CHILDRENS AND

CLOSER STILL TO GALVESTON AND UTMB. YOU MAY NOT MEET THE REQUIRMENTS

FOR BEAUMONT EMS BUT THERE ARE OTHER PRIVATE COMPANIES HERE THAT ARE

OWNED BY INDIVIDUALS AND NOT BIG COMPANIES.

CINDY THOMASON

>From -return-1599-zafir33=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Thu

Dec 31 21:09:34 1998

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>From: Toni6@... ( AAAAAAAAAAAAAA A FOR ME TO KNOW)

>Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:35:02, -0500

>To: egroups

>Subject: [] EMS Pay

>Content-Type: text/plain

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

>Well said and I can't agree more. Having lived in many areas I know

>these places exsist but for now I will put up with texas and give up

>on that place that will pay me what I am worth. When I leave I will

>begin that search again.

>

>toni

>

>After reading the most recent posts on this server, a few questions

>come to my mind.

>1. How can we as a group make some of these employers pay

> some of our kindred what they are worth?

>2. If we cannot make them " ante up " , how can we make ourselves

> more valuable?

>3. Is there some way we can get the support of legislators and/or

> state officials in this seemingly eternal battle?

>

>SHEESH, those questions were easy to ask, but unfortunately,

>the answers never come forth. As EMS personnel, it is our

>responsibility to serve the public to the best of our ability. I

>guess

>we automatically expect our employers to " take care " of us with the

>same enthusiasm. When this does not occur, we get upset. Some

>of the solutions may not be as difficult as once thought.

>Increasing

>the requirements of certification has worked in some states, but

>they

>have not been totally effective. Some people in the business are

>saying

>

>that the recent paramedic shortages are an indication that our

>personnel

>

>are leaving the business which will eventually drive up wages.

>Still

>others

>say, " Wait till ya get a load of the new DOT paramedic, no one is

>gonna

>go through that! " If they don't " go through that " , well that just

>raises our

>value even more. I am sure if everyone in the state can get

>somewhere

>near the same page, we can begin to do something about the problem.

>But, the problem didn't begin last month or even last year. It has

>been

>

>going on for several years and the solutions will not come overnight.

>

>If

>you do want it to change overnight, well then I suggest you pack

>your

>bags

>and move to somewhere that pays their personnel what they are worth.

>Those places DO EXIST!! Some people say that money does not bring

>happiness. Well, that is true but I would rather be happy in a nice

>brick

>house rather than happy in a nice three-room shack. If you have a

>suggestion

>on how to help with this situation, POST IT! or send private mail.

>I

>won't

>claim to lead the charge, but myself and many others would be willing

>to

>

>join the group. Just maybe it is time to speak out somewhere other

>than

>

>a list server. That is my 2 cents worth and then some.

>

>Have a safe and happy New Year,

>

>Lt. Gates FF/EMT-P C/E

>Lufkin Fire Dept.

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Archaeology. Biology. Ecology. Geology. Meteorology. Findology?

>Hundreds of expert human guides to lead you through thousands of

topics.

>Explore The Mining Co. http://offers./click/194/0

>

>

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Thank you for taking my remarks in a " good way " sometimes people read

too much into what we say. I was worried about getting hate mail.

Thanks again,

>From -return-1607-kasyd=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Thu

Dec 31 22:40:00 1998

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>Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:39:39 EST

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>Subject: [] Re: EMS Pay

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In a message dated 12/31/98 11:52:42 PM Central Standard Time,

kasyd@... writes:

& gt; If we all get off our butts we

& gt; can do it and make more money. This includes myself. I'll go back

to

& gt; school if everyone else will. Right now a licensed medic is no

better

& gt; than a certified medic. Just my 2 cents.

& gt;

& gt; EMT-P certified and lazy(shame on me)

,

I commend you for considering returning to school and obtaining a

degree.

Education in any field can only be beneficial to you, your employer, and

your

patients. I hope that others will realized, as you have done, that

education

and licensing will help us as EMS providers obtain higher wages and

better

benefits.

, BS, EMT/P

DFW Airport DPS

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Sorry to say this but I still see the pay being low. The public does

not realize what they hve in us and how much they need us. I think we

need to PR our rears off and get some awareness to ourselves. Along

with being educated and medics stepping up and improving ourselves in

society we will see a pay increase, until then we are uneducated, common

laborers. I say this because I was told this before and it pissed me

off. Whenever you pull up to the ER who do you see standing outside

smoking a cigarrette and bitching about their employeers, you see us...

I never realized it before until I started watching our crews and I

realized how below society we looked. I know EMS is hard and the bigger

private as well as city services are so frustrating there is nothing to

do but bitch about it, just do it in private where the civilians won't

hear or see it. Are you seeing what I am trying to say? I just want us

to pick ourselves up like the nurses are doing and things will be

better.

Don't send me hate mail, just my 2 cents

KELLY

>From -return-1610-kasyd=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri

Jan 1 00:11:23 1999

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I have to agree with you, right now a licensed medic is no better off

than

us certified medics. But, when the licensure does come thru, how many

services are going to be will to pay more for a licensed medic, when

there

are those out there that certified and will work for the $6-8 hr for the

experience. Most CNA's in a nursing home make more than we do.....not

that's bad. Because we save people's lives and make less.

[] EMS Pay

& gt; & gt;Content-Type: text/html

& gt; & gt;Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

& gt; & gt;

& gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;table & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td & gt; & lt;pre & gt;

& gt;Well said and I can't agree more. Having lived in many areas I know

& gt;these places exsist but for now I will put up with texas and give up

& gt;on that place that will pay me what I am worth. When I leave I will

& gt;begin that search again.

& gt;

& gt;toni

& gt;

& gt;After reading the most recent posts on this server, a few questions

& gt;come to my mind.

& gt;1. How can we as a group make some of these employers pay

& gt; some of our kindred what they are worth?

& gt;2. If we cannot make them & amp;#34;ante up & amp;#34;, how can we make

ourselves

& gt; more valuable?

& gt;3. Is there some way we can get the support of legislators and/or

& gt; state officials in this seemingly eternal battle?

& gt;

& gt;SHEESH, those questions were easy to ask, but unfortunately,

& gt;the answers never come forth. As EMS personnel, it is our

& gt;responsibility to serve the public to the best of our ability. I

& gt;guess

& gt;we automatically expect our employers to & amp;#34;take care & amp;#34;

of us with

& gt;the

& gt;same enthusiasm. When this does not occur, we get upset. Some

& gt;of the solutions may not be as difficult as once thought.

& gt;Increasing

& gt;the requirements of certification has worked in some states, but

& gt;they

& gt;have not been totally effective. Some people in the business are

& gt;saying

& gt;

& gt;that the recent paramedic shortages are an indication that our

& gt;personnel

& gt;

& gt;are leaving the business which will eventually drive up wages.

& gt;Still

& gt;others

& gt;say, & amp;#34;Wait till ya get a load of the new DOT paramedic, no

one is

& gt;gonna

& gt;go through that! & amp;#34; If they don't & amp;#34;go through

that & amp;#34;, well

& gt;that just

& gt;raises our

& gt;value even more. I am sure if everyone in the state can get

& gt;somewhere

& gt;near the same page, we can begin to do something about the problem.

& gt;But, the problem didn't begin last month or even last year. It has

& gt;been

& gt;

& gt;going on for several years and the solutions will not come

overnight.

& gt;

& gt;If

& gt;you do want it to change overnight, well then I suggest you pack

& gt;your

& gt;bags

& gt;and move to somewhere that pays their personnel what they are worth.

& gt;Those places DO EXIST!! Some people say that money does not bring

& gt;happiness. Well, that is true but I would rather be happy in a nice

& gt;brick

& gt;house rather than happy in a nice three-room shack. If you have a

& gt;suggestion

& gt;on how to help with this situation, POST IT! or send private mail.

& gt;I

& gt;won't

& gt;claim to lead the charge, but myself and many others would be

willing

& gt;to

& gt;

& gt;join the group. Just maybe it is time to speak out somewhere other

& gt;than

& gt;

& gt;a list server. That is my 2 cents worth and then some.

& gt;

& gt;Have a safe and happy New Year,

& gt;

& gt;Lt. Gates FF/EMT-P C/E

& gt;Lufkin Fire Dept.

& gt;

& gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;/pre & gt; & lt;/td & gt; & lt;/tr & gt; & lt;/table & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;hr & gt; & lt;center & gt; & lt;body bgcolor= & #34;#FFFFFF & #34; & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;table border= & #34;0 & #34; width= & #34;468 & #34; & gt;

& gt; & lt;tr & gt;

& gt; & lt;td align= & #34;center & #34; valign= & #34;top & #34;

bgcolor= & #34;#EEEECC & #34; & gt; & lt;p

& gt; align= & #34;center & #34; & gt;Archaeology. Biology. Ecology.

Geology.

& gt;Meteorology. Findology? Hundreds of expert human guides to lead you

& gt;through thousands of topics.

& gt;Explore The Mining Co. & lt;a

& gt;href= & #34;http://ads./click/194/0 & #34; & gt; & lt;strong & gt;http://ho\

me.miningco.com/

compute & lt;/strong & gt; & lt;/a & gt; & lt;/p & gt;

& gt; & lt;/td & gt;

& gt; & lt;/tr & gt;

& gt; & lt;/table & gt;

& gt; & lt;/body & gt;

& gt; & lt;/html & gt; & lt;p & gt;

& gt; & lt;/center & gt;

& gt;

& gt;

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first off, toni6 you might as well accept the fact that you are not in

hawaii,or guam, or the south pacific. the cost of living in those places

has got to be high. its no wonder you made that much. you need to

remember that salaries in some areas has the cost of living figured in.

as to kelly i would NEVER send you hate mail, not with the man you are

married too. you have enough to deal with. seriously you have a point, i

think that is why there is a big push right now with in services to

improve public image. i know there is with the city. we are really doing

alot of pr now-a-days. sometimes it is very difficult to take a look in

the mirror and realize your faults.

>From -return-1633-zafir33=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri

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>Sorry to say this but I still see the pay being low. The public does

>not realize what they hve in us and how much they need us. I think we

>need to PR our rears off and get some awareness to ourselves. Along

>with being educated and medics stepping up and improving ourselves in

>society we will see a pay increase, until then we are uneducated,

common

>laborers. I say this because I was told this before and it pissed me

>off. Whenever you pull up to the ER who do you see standing outside

>smoking a cigarrette and bitching about their employeers, you see us...

>I never realized it before until I started watching our crews and I

>realized how below society we looked. I know EMS is hard and the

bigger

>private as well as city services are so frustrating there is nothing to

>do but bitch about it, just do it in private where the civilians won't

>hear or see it. Are you seeing what I am trying to say? I just want

us

>to pick ourselves up like the nurses are doing and things will be

>better.

>

>Don't send me hate mail, just my 2 cents

>

>KELLY

>

>

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>

>

><table><tr><td><pre>

>I have to agree with you, right now a licensed medic is no better off

>than

>us certified medics. But, when the licensure does come thru, how many

>services are going to be will to pay more for a licensed medic, when

>there

>are those out there that certified and will work for the $6-8 hr for

the

>experience. Most CNA's in a nursing home make more than we do.....not

>that's bad. Because we save people's lives and make less.

> [] EMS Pay

> & gt; & gt;Content-Type: text/html

> & gt; & gt;Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> & gt; & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;table & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td & gt; & lt;pre & gt;

> & gt;Well said and I can't agree more. Having lived in many areas I

know

> & gt;these places exsist but for now I will put up with texas and give

up

> & gt;on that place that will pay me what I am worth. When I leave I

will

> & gt;begin that search again.

> & gt;

> & gt;toni

> & gt;

> & gt;After reading the most recent posts on this server, a few questions

> & gt;come to my mind.

> & gt;1. How can we as a group make some of these employers pay

> & gt; some of our kindred what they are worth?

> & gt;2. If we cannot make them & amp;#34;ante up & amp;#34;, how can we

make

>ourselves

> & gt; more valuable?

> & gt;3. Is there some way we can get the support of legislators and/or

> & gt; state officials in this seemingly eternal battle?

> & gt;

> & gt;SHEESH, those questions were easy to ask, but unfortunately,

> & gt;the answers never come forth. As EMS personnel, it is our

> & gt;responsibility to serve the public to the best of our ability. I

> & gt;guess

> & gt;we automatically expect our employers to & amp;#34;take

care & amp;#34;

>of us with

> & gt;the

> & gt;same enthusiasm. When this does not occur, we get upset. Some

> & gt;of the solutions may not be as difficult as once thought.

> & gt;Increasing

> & gt;the requirements of certification has worked in some states, but

> & gt;they

> & gt;have not been totally effective. Some people in the business are

> & gt;saying

> & gt;

> & gt;that the recent paramedic shortages are an indication that our

> & gt;personnel

> & gt;

> & gt;are leaving the business which will eventually drive up wages.

> & gt;Still

> & gt;others

> & gt;say, & amp;#34;Wait till ya get a load of the new DOT paramedic, no

>one is

> & gt;gonna

> & gt;go through that! & amp;#34; If they don't & amp;#34;go through

>that & amp;#34;, well

> & gt;that just

> & gt;raises our

> & gt;value even more. I am sure if everyone in the state can get

> & gt;somewhere

> & gt;near the same page, we can begin to do something about the problem.

> & gt;But, the problem didn't begin last month or even last year. It has

> & gt;been

> & gt;

> & gt;going on for several years and the solutions will not come

>overnight.

> & gt;

> & gt;If

> & gt;you do want it to change overnight, well then I suggest you pack

> & gt;your

> & gt;bags

> & gt;and move to somewhere that pays their personnel what they are

worth.

> & gt;Those places DO EXIST!! Some people say that money does not bring

> & gt;happiness. Well, that is true but I would rather be happy in a

nice

> & gt;brick

> & gt;house rather than happy in a nice three-room shack. If you have a

> & gt;suggestion

> & gt;on how to help with this situation, POST IT! or send private mail.

> & gt;I

> & gt;won't

> & gt;claim to lead the charge, but myself and many others would be

>willing

> & gt;to

> & gt;

> & gt;join the group. Just maybe it is time to speak out somewhere other

> & gt;than

> & gt;

> & gt;a list server. That is my 2 cents worth and then some.

> & gt;

> & gt;Have a safe and happy New Year,

> & gt;

> & gt;Lt. Gates FF/EMT-P C/E

> & gt;Lufkin Fire Dept.

> & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/pre & gt; & lt;/td & gt; & lt;/tr & gt; & lt;/table & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;hr & gt; & lt;center & gt; & lt;body bgcolor= & #34;#FFFFFF & #34; & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;table border= & #34;0 & #34; width= & #34;468 & #34; & gt;

> & gt; & lt;tr & gt;

> & gt; & lt;td align= & #34;center & #34; valign= & #34;top & #34;

>bgcolor= & #34;#EEEECC & #34; & gt; & lt;p

> & gt; align= & #34;center & #34; & gt;Archaeology. Biology. Ecology.

>Geology.

> & gt;Meteorology. Findology? Hundreds of expert human guides to lead

you

> & gt;through thousands of topics.

> & gt;Explore The Mining Co. & lt;a

> & gt;href= & #34;http://ads./click/194/0 & #34; & gt; & lt;strong & gt;http://h\

ome.miningco.com/

>compute & lt;/strong & gt; & lt;/a & gt; & lt;/p & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/td & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/tr & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/table & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/body & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/html & gt; & lt;p & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/center & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt;

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In a message dated 99-01-01 23:49:01 EST, you write:

<< but they do

remember the crew they saw spent two hours shopping giggling and

laughing with the ambulance outside locked and idling in the 98

degree plus weather..they see that as there tax dollars being wasted

and will remember that picture forever... >>

I don't know of ANY public (or private) provider that would allow that. Call

me missinformed......

paul

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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very well said. We need stop bicking amongst our selves and

further our enducation in order to demand the respect and pay we

deserve. But may I suggest going to school because you want to and

not because everyone else is doing it. I chose a degree because I

wanted it. It opens many other doors not directly connected to EMS

but still in the health care field. It many not pay off now..but My

hope is that if you have it when employers start looking you will be

ready and prepared not just running to your nearst college. This is

excatly my pont. it is not just texas but it happens in other areas

I'm sure. Having spent most of my time overseas and off mainland US

where EMS is treated far better than on the mainland I have different

views and experiences. Yes, there are many meduim to large cities

that pay EMS personnel very well for there services to try to keep

the good people and hope that they stay in it for the long run. I am

just as frustated because I know whats out there far beyond texas

that could be in texas with a lot of hard work IF we all want it and

stick together. But as long as we settle for whatever is given to us,

this is going to be all we will get.

In this area CNA pay was $5.25-5.75 hr but the employees where like a

revolvig door. Stay a week or two weeks and then quit with not

warning was so ever. So facilities advertised constantly and were

still unable to come close to meeting there staff to patient

requirements. Patients got such poor care, families complained, many

homes got sued or investigated by the state and many of the employees

complained. So the shortage of CNAs became almost critical. What

happened? Well wages went up, now they pay between $6-6.50 hr and

some facilities have even imporved there work schedules and employee

benefits. Even though this is a small step it is a step in the right

direction.

Did you know that through JPTA and other training programs you can

get your Associate degree and become a registered nurse for free or

LPN but they won't pay for Fire academy or EMT or Paramedic. I

inquired about the reason and the asnwer was that they were not

fields that paid significant enough wages so that people could

survive nor were there an adequate demand for these types of jobs.

That in itself showed me how our government officials as well as the

general public view us. Truck drivers, deisel mechanics, RNs, LPNs

and computer technicians are more important than we are!

No, I'm so pissed about this situation that I'm not bailing out...

there are many6 things that I do like about this state...I'm sticking

around until I see some positive changes....I have no idea what this

will take but I'm sure EMSAT and other organizationshave been this

route before and are full of ideas and solutions The time to be

silent and let the world pass by is now over...change is good.

good luck you are on the right track.

toni

Unfortunately the pay is not going to go up any time soon. There are

too

many people out there who are willing to work for such a low pay just

to

be on a box and run 911. Our pay will not increase until we become

educated, and if you have a degree it still does not matter, yet.

When

they require everyone to be licensed then the pay will increase we

will

be worth something then. A nail technician has to have a license,

they

are worth more than us. I am just as pissed as you guys but it is

our

fault for being too lazy to go back to school and demand to be called

a

professional, not an ambulance driver. If we all get off our butts

we

can do it and make more money. This includes myself. I'll go back to

school if everyone else will. Right now a licensed medic is no

better

than a certified medic. Just my 2 cents.

EMT-P certified and lazy(shame on me)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Exactly ,

I'll tell you another picture the public sees...they don't see you

save someone lifes when they code outsie in the front yard when its

cold and raining and you work your butt off to save then...they

quickly forget that picture if they even see it at all, but they do

remember the crew they saw spent two hours shopping giggling and

laughing with the ambulance outside locked and idling in the 98

degree plus weather..they see that as there tax dollars being wasted

and will remember that picture forever...

It goes back to that theory about a person having a good experience

will tell two people but if they had a bad experience they will tell

ten or more. Its one of those human nature things....PR and

protecting our public image is so important. When we work for a

municipal service we sometimes take our jobs for granted and forget

about our image to the public. The public needs to know what we are

about and the sacrifices we make to do what we do. WE are not fat

lazy slobs who lay around, eat and sleep all day waiting for tones to

go off.

toni

Sorry to say this but I still see the pay being low. The public does

not realize what they hve in us and how much they need us. I think

we

need to PR our rears off and get some awareness to ourselves. Along

with being educated and medics stepping up and improving ourselves in

society we will see a pay increase, until then we are uneducated,

common

laborers. I say this because I was told this before and it pissed me

off. Whenever you pull up to the ER who do you see standing outside

smoking a cigarrette and bitching about their employeers, you see us..

..

I never realized it before until I started watching our crews and I

realized how below society we looked. I know EMS is hard and the

bigger

private as well as city services are so frustrating there is nothing

to

do but bitch about it, just do it in private where the civilians

won't

hear or see it. Are you seeing what I am trying to say? I just want

us

to pick ourselves up like the nurses are doing and things will be

better.

Don't send me hate mail, just my 2 cents

KELLY

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Is it the shopping and laughing that you have a problem with or just

the idling? Or the whole bit?

L. Vasquez, EMT-P,BLS-I

Eldorado EMS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I think you missed the point I don't have a problem with either but I

have haerd people comment about how easy people who work fire or EMS

have it. Sit around do nothing until someone calls for help. We in

the profession know its not like that.

It is the preception that the public has of us that sticks in there

minds more so than the reality of the situation.

No as far as the idling situation. I know its true because I was on

that crew. I don't know much about mechanics but we were told by the

mechanics not to shut the rig down because it wouldn't start...Dead

heat of summer. We did spend nearly two hours in a store wandering

around while waiting to go to the barn to have it fixed. No I was

not working in texas, but in GA. and yes, I heard the comments about

how it must be nice to waste the tax payers dollars leaving the

engine running while we were shopping..shouldn't we be saving

someone's life somewhere? Now, I know this was probably not the

best thing to do but as a new EMT with as so called well seasoned

partner who made this decision I was along for the ride..BTW field

supervisor said let it run.....Looking back a better choice would

have been to return to our site and left it run parked next to the

building...but you know what they say hind sight is always 20/20.

toni

Is it the shopping and laughing that you have a problem with or

just

the idling? Or the whole bit?

L. Vasquez, EMT-P,BLS-I

Eldorado EMS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Pro-Care in Forrest Hill would, and we did that. but it was because the A/C

in the old trucks that we has, would never work.

[] Re: EMS Pay

>In a message dated 99-01-01 23:49:01 EST, you write:

>

><< but they do

> remember the crew they saw spent two hours shopping giggling and

> laughing with the ambulance outside locked and idling in the 98

> degree plus weather..they see that as there tax dollars being wasted

> and will remember that picture forever... >>

>

>I don't know of ANY public (or private) provider that would allow that.

Call

>me missinformed......

>

>paul

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>For the absolute lowest price on software visit:

>http://www.bottomdollar.com/egroups/

>

>

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You can get certified as an EMT and paramedic through the JTPA. I am

currently getting assistance from them as I study this field.

EMT-B (almost-I get state tested the 25th)

SweetRajah@...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Quick Comment. On the topic of sitting around and doing nothing while

wasting tax dollars topic. As EMS providers we do work in a profession where

perception is reality. What the general public see is what they believe.

They have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes. How much time is spent

with educational requirements, in house training, etc... All they see is a

couple of medics eating lunch at a local restaurant while the Unit is

running, or someone running into the local store to buy a card for their

loved one. What they don't see is at 300am while they are at home in their

nice comfortable bed ( on the same day I might add ) we are up running calls

and helping the very people who complain. I think we need to educate the

public to our profession. The next time someone complains to you about

wasting their tax dollars, invite them to spend a shift with you. Of course

if you have a public awareness program in place. Make them stay for a full

24 hour shift. See how they cut it. I have done this the results are

amazing. You cannot change everybody's opinion all at once. But we can do it

one at a time. Personally, I do not care what the Medics do on their down

time, maybe because I have been there and done that. All I can say is if

they are eating, sleeping, shopping or shooting hoops, as long as when I

call for an Ambulance the unit is fully prepared to handle their protocols

and the medics are fully trained and capable of performing top line medical

care. So the next time any one out there has some down time and is thinking

about hitting the mall or whatever, ask your self. How prepared am I to

handle the next call. Truly, do I think I am prepared or am I? The next

patient you work on may be from your own family or mine.

Fenwick How

EMT Paramedic

Houston Community College

EMS Faculty

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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thanks cindy! glad you could see my point, if the city is smart they

will put you over the pr. nice to hear from you and you are right, my

hands are full with my man, but he is great!

c'ya,

kel

>From -return-1634-kasyd Fri Jan 01 20:47:33 1999

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<table><tr><td><pre>

first off, toni6 you might as well accept the fact that you are not in

hawaii,or guam, or the south pacific. the cost of living in those places

has got to be high. its no wonder you made that much. you need to

remember that salaries in some areas has the cost of living figured in.

as to kelly i would NEVER send you hate mail, not with the man you are

married too. you have enough to deal with. seriously you have a point, i

think that is why there is a big push right now with in services to

improve public image. i know there is with the city. we are really doing

alot of pr now-a-days. sometimes it is very difficult to take a look in

the mirror and realize your faults.

& gt;From -return-1633-zafir33=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

Fri

Jan 1 20:21:50 1999

& gt;Received: (qmail 5857 invoked by uid 505); 2 Jan 1999 04:14:18 -0000

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& gt;From: & #34;kelly bryan & #34; & lt;kasyd@... & gt;

& gt;To: egroups

& gt;Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 20:14:09 PST

& gt;Mime-Version: 1.0

& gt;Subject: [] Re: EMS Pay

& gt;Content-Type: text/plain

& gt;Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

& gt;

& gt;Sorry to say this but I still see the pay being low. The public

does

& gt;not realize what they hve in us and how much they need us. I think

we

& gt;need to PR our rears off and get some awareness to ourselves. Along

& gt;with being educated and medics stepping up and improving ourselves

in

& gt;society we will see a pay increase, until then we are uneducated,

common

& gt;laborers. I say this because I was told this before and it pissed

me

& gt;off. Whenever you pull up to the ER who do you see standing outside

& gt;smoking a cigarrette and bitching about their employeers, you see

us...

& gt;I never realized it before until I started watching our crews and I

& gt;realized how below society we looked. I know EMS is hard and the

bigger

& gt;private as well as city services are so frustrating there is nothing

to

& gt;do but bitch about it, just do it in private where the civilians

won't

& gt;hear or see it. Are you seeing what I am trying to say? I just

want

us

& gt;to pick ourselves up like the nurses are doing and things will be

& gt;better.

& gt;

& gt;Don't send me hate mail, just my 2 cents

& gt;

& gt;KELLY

& gt;

& gt;

& gt; & gt;From

-return-1610-kasyd=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri

& gt;Jan 1 00:11:23 1999

& gt; & gt;Received: (qmail 10524 invoked by uid 505); 1 Jan 1999 08:11:13

-0000

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& gt; & gt;From: & #34;Wayne Dennis & #34; & lt;rxmd@... & gt;

& gt; & gt;To: & lt;egroups & gt;

& gt; & gt;Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 02:10:36 -0600

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& gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;table & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td & gt; & lt;pre & gt;

& gt;I have to agree with you, right now a licensed medic is no better

off

& gt;than

& gt;us certified medics. But, when the licensure does come thru, how

many

& gt;services are going to be will to pay more for a licensed medic, when

& gt;there

& gt;are those out there that certified and will work for the $6-8 hr for

the

& gt;experience. Most CNA's in a nursing home make more than we

do.....not

& gt;that's bad. Because we save people's lives and make less.

& gt; [] EMS Pay

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;gt;Content-Type: text/html

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;gt;Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;table & amp;gt; & amp;lt;tr & amp;gt; & amp;lt;td & amp;gt; & amp;lt;pre\

& amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;Well said and I can't agree more. Having lived in many

areas I

know

& gt; & amp;gt;these places exsist but for now I will put up with texas and

give

up

& gt; & amp;gt;on that place that will pay me what I am worth. When I

leave I

will

& gt; & amp;gt;begin that search again.

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;toni

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;After reading the most recent posts on this server, a few

questions

& gt; & amp;gt;come to my mind.

& gt; & amp;gt;1. How can we as a group make some of these employers pay

& gt; & amp;gt; some of our kindred what they are worth?

& gt; & amp;gt;2. If we cannot make them & amp;amp;#34;ante up & amp;amp;#34;,

how can we

make

& gt;ourselves

& gt; & amp;gt; more valuable?

& gt; & amp;gt;3. Is there some way we can get the support of legislators

and/or

& gt; & amp;gt; state officials in this seemingly eternal battle?

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;SHEESH, those questions were easy to ask, but unfortunately,

& gt; & amp;gt;the answers never come forth. As EMS personnel, it is our

& gt; & amp;gt;responsibility to serve the public to the best of our

ability. I

& gt; & amp;gt;guess

& gt; & amp;gt;we automatically expect our employers to & amp;amp;#34;take

care & amp;amp;#34;

& gt;of us with

& gt; & amp;gt;the

& gt; & amp;gt;same enthusiasm. When this does not occur, we get upset.

Some

& gt; & amp;gt;of the solutions may not be as difficult as once thought.

& gt; & amp;gt;Increasing

& gt; & amp;gt;the requirements of certification has worked in some states,

but

& gt; & amp;gt;they

& gt; & amp;gt;have not been totally effective. Some people in the

business are

& gt; & amp;gt;saying

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;that the recent paramedic shortages are an indication that

our

& gt; & amp;gt;personnel

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;are leaving the business which will eventually drive up

wages.

& gt; & amp;gt;Still

& gt; & amp;gt;others

& gt; & amp;gt;say, & amp;amp;#34;Wait till ya get a load of the new DOT

paramedic, no

& gt;one is

& gt; & amp;gt;gonna

& gt; & amp;gt;go through that! & amp;amp;#34; If they don't & amp;amp;#34;go

through

& gt;that & amp;amp;#34;, well

& gt; & amp;gt;that just

& gt; & amp;gt;raises our

& gt; & amp;gt;value even more. I am sure if everyone in the state can get

& gt; & amp;gt;somewhere

& gt; & amp;gt;near the same page, we can begin to do something about the

problem.

& gt; & amp;gt;But, the problem didn't begin last month or even last year.

It has

& gt; & amp;gt;been

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;going on for several years and the solutions will not come

& gt;overnight.

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;If

& gt; & amp;gt;you do want it to change overnight, well then I suggest you

pack

& gt; & amp;gt;your

& gt; & amp;gt;bags

& gt; & amp;gt;and move to somewhere that pays their personnel what they

are

worth.

& gt; & amp;gt;Those places DO EXIST!! Some people say that money does not

bring

& gt; & amp;gt;happiness. Well, that is true but I would rather be happy

in a

nice

& gt; & amp;gt;brick

& gt; & amp;gt;house rather than happy in a nice three-room shack. If you

have a

& gt; & amp;gt;suggestion

& gt; & amp;gt;on how to help with this situation, POST IT! or send

private mail.

& gt; & amp;gt;I

& gt; & amp;gt;won't

& gt; & amp;gt;claim to lead the charge, but myself and many others would

be

& gt;willing

& gt; & amp;gt;to

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;join the group. Just maybe it is time to speak out

somewhere other

& gt; & amp;gt;than

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;a list server. That is my 2 cents worth and then some.

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;Have a safe and happy New Year,

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;Lt. Gates FF/EMT-P C/E

& gt; & amp;gt;Lufkin Fire Dept.

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/pre & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/td & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/tr & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/t\

able & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;hr & amp;gt; & amp;lt;center & amp;gt; & amp;lt;body

bgcolor= & amp;#34;#FFFFFF & amp;#34; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;table border= & amp;#34;0 & amp;#34;

width= & amp;#34;468 & amp;#34; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;tr & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;td align= & amp;#34;center & amp;#34;

valign= & amp;#34;top & amp;#34;

& gt;bgcolor= & amp;#34;#EEEECC & amp;#34; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;p

& gt; & amp;gt; align= & amp;#34;center & amp;#34; & amp;gt;Archaeology.

Biology. Ecology.

& gt;Geology.

& gt; & amp;gt;Meteorology. Findology? Hundreds of expert human guides to

lead

you

& gt; & amp;gt;through thousands of topics.

& gt; & amp;gt;Explore The Mining Co. & amp;lt;a

& gt; & amp;gt;href= & amp;#34;http://ads./click/194/0 & amp;#34; & amp;gt; & am\

p;lt;strong & amp;gt;http://home.miningco.com/

& gt;compute & amp;lt;/strong & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/a & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/p & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/td & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/tr & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/table & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/body & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/html & amp;gt; & amp;lt;p & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;lt;/center & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

& gt; & amp;gt;

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The ? of the day is what do we do about this problem.

kelly

>From -return-1637-kasyd=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri

Jan 1 20:48:38 1999

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>From: Toni6@... ( AAAAAAAAAAAAAA A FOR ME TO KNOW)

>Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:14:43, -0500

>To: egroups

>Subject: [] Re: EMS Pay

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Exactly ,

I'll tell you another picture the public sees...they don't see you

save someone lifes when they code outsie in the front yard when its

cold and raining and you work your butt off to save then...they

quickly forget that picture if they even see it at all, but they do

remember the crew they saw spent two hours shopping giggling and

laughing with the ambulance outside locked and idling in the 98

degree plus weather..they see that as there tax dollars being wasted

and will remember that picture forever...

It goes back to that theory about a person having a good experience

will tell two people but if they had a bad experience they will tell

ten or more. Its one of those human nature things....PR and

protecting our public image is so important. When we work for a

municipal service we sometimes take our jobs for granted and forget

about our image to the public. The public needs to know what we are

about and the sacrifices we make to do what we do. WE are not fat

lazy slobs who lay around, eat and sleep all day waiting for tones to

go off.

toni

Sorry to say this but I still see the pay being low. The public does

not realize what they hve in us and how much they need us. I think

we

need to PR our rears off and get some awareness to ourselves. Along

with being educated and medics stepping up and improving ourselves in

society we will see a pay increase, until then we are uneducated,

common

laborers. I say this because I was told this before and it pissed me

off. Whenever you pull up to the ER who do you see standing outside

smoking a cigarrette and bitching about their employeers, you see us..

..

I never realized it before until I started watching our crews and I

realized how below society we looked. I know EMS is hard and the

bigger

private as well as city services are so frustrating there is nothing

to

do but bitch about it, just do it in private where the civilians

won't

hear or see it. Are you seeing what I am trying to say? I just want

us

to pick ourselves up like the nurses are doing and things will be

better.

Don't send me hate mail, just my 2 cents

KELLY

</pre></td></tr></table>

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,

Not trying to correct you or anything but, I know and have worked for

many services that allow the crews to go to the mall or even to the

movies, run errands and yes go to Wal-Mart. Private and Public. I can

only hope my crews are being proffessional when they are out. If we get

a complaint they are " grounded " for awhile.

>From -return-1638-kasyd=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri

Jan 1 21:38:36 1999

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In a message dated 99-01-01 23:49:01 EST, you write:

& lt; & lt; but they do

remember the crew they saw spent two hours shopping giggling and

laughing with the ambulance outside locked and idling in the 98

degree plus weather..they see that as there tax dollars being wasted

and will remember that picture forever... & gt; & gt;

I don't know of ANY public (or private) provider that would allow that.

Call

me missinformed......

paul

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Tayna what part of the state are you in? Here in the central Texas

area they no longer do that. I inquired. and for the reasons stated

in my earlier post. Very few to no jobs for EMTs, Paramedics as well

as FF. I thought it was quite strage because I know that JTPA does

pay for such training in other areas as well as in other states.

If you are fortunate to get assistance Bravo to you and good luck in

your studies.

toni

You can get certified as an EMT and paramedic through the JTPA. I

am

currently getting assistance from them as I study this field.

EMT-B (almost-I get state tested the 25th)

SweetRajah@...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Toni : can you give me more information on JTPA qualifications needed etc.

Thanks

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA A FOR ME TO KNOW wrote:

> Tayna what part of the state are you in? Here in the central Texas

> area they no longer do that. I inquired. and for the reasons stated

> in my earlier post. Very few to no jobs for EMTs, Paramedics as well

> as FF. I thought it was quite strage because I know that JTPA does

> pay for such training in other areas as well as in other states.

> If you are fortunate to get assistance Bravo to you and good luck in

> your studies.

>

> toni

>

> You can get certified as an EMT and paramedic through the JTPA. I

> am

> currently getting assistance from them as I study this field.

>

>

> EMT-B (almost-I get state tested the 25th)

> SweetRajah@...

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The Bowl Championship Series on ESPN.com.

> We are there. Join us...

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Yep... got to agree.

Crews can go to get groceries for lunch at the station... or even (GASP!!!!)

eat lunch or dinner at a local restuarant. The key is being professional at

all times while out. The public's memory is very short for the good things

you do... but let someone mess up, and you have a negative PR person who has

friends and likes to talk!

Jack Pitcock, EMT-P

EMS Coordinator

Baytown Health Dept EMS

> [] Re: EMS Pay

> >Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >

>

>

> <table><tr><td><pre>

> In a message dated 99-01-01 23:49:01 EST, you write:

>

> & lt; & lt; but they do

> remember the crew they saw spent two hours shopping giggling and

> laughing with the ambulance outside locked and idling in the 98

> degree plus weather..they see that as there tax dollars being wasted

> and will remember that picture forever... & gt; & gt;

>

> I don't know of ANY public (or private) provider that would allow that.

> Call

> me missinformed......

>

> paul

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hi Toni,

I am from Laredo, Texas. I am sorry that JTPA doesn't offer any

assistance in your area. Maybe you should try applying for a

scholorship. There are hundreds of scholorship programs posted on the

web. I know of a really good site that finds all the scholorships you

would qualify for. I don't have the address off hand, but if you want

it I will look for it for you.

Always,

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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In a message dated 99-01-02 21:47:29 EST, you write:

<< Not trying to correct you or anything but, I know and have worked for

many services that allow the crews to go to the mall or even to the

movies, run errands and yes go to Wal-Mart. Private and Public. I can

only hope my crews are being proffessional when they are out. If we get

a complaint they are " grounded " for awhile.

>>

I guess I am missinformed!

I understand the concept of leaving a vehicle running for a period of time,

but 2 hours? Our mechanics have advised us to go ahead and shut down for

period longer than 15 min, unless it is on the scene. They describe a drop in

oil pressure, increased electrical load, creating havoc on the alternators.

Of course this is an issue for each provider to work out.

I would have a real problem(s) if my staff spent 2 hours shopping at WalMart,

on duty with an idleing ambulance outside. Call me a hard nose, but they have

20 days a month to take care of their personal shopping and errand running.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I'm not sure what they are income does play a factor as well as the

length of time umemployed or whether you are getting out of the

military or had a recent major employment status change. If

quialified they pay 100% books and tuition and give a small stipend

for misc. expenses. check with your local Texas Workforce Commission

for more info. I checked when I arrived but didn't qualify...and

though I qualify to go to nursing school if I chose they have a long

waiting list currently.

Good luck

toni

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Thank you for the offer but I have completed my degree as far

as I intend to go with EMS. I have a Bachelor of Science. I'm now

looking to pursue other options so I can be off the road in a few

years. Not that I don't enjoy it but as my children gets older their

demands change and so I'm looking at my options concentrating on

being home more. higher wages, less work hours...I've enjoyed my

travels but now its time to settle down. Good luck with your studies.

toni

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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