Re: gastric bypass

October 15, 2006

You are not alone. I feel the same way, and I think this is just another " fad "

that has made some doctors very rich. No one really thinks about what is going

to happen 10 or 15 years after having the surgery, and most obese people don't

really care (this is the sad part). You can't mess with nature and get away

with it.

I had a very similar case where the guy lost 110# in 14 months working with me,

then turned around and had the bypass. I haven't heard from him since so I

don't know how he's doing. I really think the whole thing has gotten out of

hand, and the whole blame should be on the food industry and the altered fats

and sweeteners they use. Now Coke has a new product that claims you will burn

60-100 calories by drinking it. Please!!! How dumb can people be? Just

become a conscious eater and you won't have to worry about anything.

This whole mess has made me feel very differently about our field. I have been

doing a lot of soul searching lately.

Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD

The NON-DIET dietitian

Northeast Ohio and Western Pennsylvania

gastric bypass

I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage of

folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I really

would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS patients who

have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get to see the unlucky

patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We never

counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again. She felt

SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices. She still

wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30 pounds a month and

she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc. She is 280 and looked

healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked me in the eyes and said she

wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

Am I alone?

October 15, 2006

Judy

I wish there were more people out there like you. I have to admit there was

a point in time I might have considered the surgery (yes I am over weight).

However I have seen three relatively young women die from the complications

of this surgery. Each one had three or four small children. The doctors

and all the other members of the medical team caring for them prior to

surgery all agreed they were all clear and appropriate candidate for the

surgery. They were all in a rehab unit after the surgery because they

needed a little extra care past their hospitalizations. They all had their

surgeries around the same time. Each one of their death certificates stated

they died from complications from gastric bypass surgery. That pretty much

clinched it for me..NO SURGERY FOR ME!

Carol

You are never completely dressed unless you are wearing a smile.

Carol S. Casey, BSc, RD, CDN, FMP

Smile_All_Over

Galatians 5:22, Mark 7:21-23

_____

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of

JUDY D. SIMON

Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:59 AM

To: rd-usa

Subject: gastric bypass

I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I

really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get

to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again.

She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices.

She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30

pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc.

She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked

me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

Am I alone?

October 15, 2006

That is so sad. I know that morbid obesity is so tough. I would rather see some

on an optifast (closely monitored) any day. I have actually suggested to

patients that they don't get the surgery and wondered if that would get me into

trouble. I still feel the non diet approach is a risk free way to work with

folks who would benefit from weight loss.

The other thing about the pt I saw was thatbesides being so sick from the

surgery, she has such baggy skin. When you are on dshs they will never pay for

plastic surgery.

> Judy

>

> I wish there were more people out there like you. I have to admit there was

> a point in time I might have considered the surgery (yes I am over weight).

> However I have seen three relatively young women die from the complications

> of this surgery. Each one had three or four small children. The doctors

> and all the other members of the medical team caring for them prior to

> surgery all agreed they were all clear and appropriate candidate for the

> surgery. They were all in a rehab unit after the surgery because they

> needed a little extra care past their hospitalizations. They all had their

> surgeries around the same time. Each one of their death certificates stated

> they died from complications from gastric bypass surgery. That pretty much

> clinched it for me..NO SURGERY FOR ME!

>

> Carol

>

> You are never completely dressed unless you are wearing a smile.

> Carol S. Casey, BSc, RD, CDN, FMP

> Smile_All_Over

>

> Galatians 5:22, Mark 7:21-23

>

> _____

>

> From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of

> JUDY D. SIMON

> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:59 AM

> To: rd-usa

> Subject: gastric bypass

>

> I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

> of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I

> really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

> patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get

> to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

>

> I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

> never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again.

> She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices.

> She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30

> pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc.

> She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked

> me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

>

> Am I alone?

>

October 15, 2006

This is so interesting because I have 2 people I have worked with and a story

from a co-worker:

1) So inappropriate - I consulted at a Psych hospital and this woman was a

" frequent flyer " . Depressed for years, " mild " suicide attempts, had tried every

psych drug that was out there, a " cutter " , etc. They actually ok'd her for

gastric bypass. She lost weight, yes, but was so sick and malnourished and even

more depressed. She really felt this would be the answer for her depression.

The hospital went bankrupt soon after and I always wonder what happened with

her.

2) One of my nursing students had it done and it literally changed his life for

the better. He came to visit me and I didn't even recognize him.

3) One of my co-workers mother had it done - she did fine but she needed to

lose about 75-80 lbs. and they still did it.

Check Nutrition at my site:

Nutrition.teach-nology.com

Ortiz, RD

nrord@...

" The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher

demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

~ A. Ward ~

gastric bypass

>

> I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

> of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I

> really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

> patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get

> to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

>

> I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

> never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again.

> She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices.

> She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30

> pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc.

> She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked

> me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

>

> Am I alone?

>

October 15, 2006

I would have to say that I respectfully disagree with some of your thoughts.

Although your comments about no one really caring about what will happen 10

to 15 years after surgery may have some truth to it, some of those that are

morbidly obese may not have 10 to 15 months to live because of their weight

and co morbidities. So they don't really care at this point because they

most likely will not see 10 to 15 years if they do not get the surgery. I

feel that with a good thorough program those that have surgery are very

successful. Of course I would love to see all people that are morbidly obese

lose weight without having surgery but it is very difficult for most, no

matter how hard they try. A good majority of my patients are conscious

eaters and for those that are not, it is more than changing their eating

habits, it takes working with a therapist as well. I have been working long

enough with this population to realize the benefits outweigh the risk.

Amy Cartwright, RD, LDN

NorthEast Bariatric Center

gastric bypass

I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

of

folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I

really

would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS patients who

have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get to see the

unlucky

patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

never

counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again. She

felt

SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices. She still

wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30 pounds a month

and

she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc. She is 280 and

looked

healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked me in the eyes and said

she

wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

Am I alone?

October 15, 2006

I work in a hospital where gastric bypass is done on a regular basis. And I

must say, I have seen too many patients get this surgery and end up with ruined

lives.

Examples:

1. One woman, only in her late 30s, and did not have much to lose, got the

surgery. During the surgery, something went terribly wrong and the oxygen was

cut off to her brain long enough to put her in a comatose state for the rest of

her life. She is now on tube feedings and has a trach collar. Ultimately, her

gastric bypass needed to be reversed, but the damage to her brain will remain

permanent. It is the saddest thing to see her husband and family sitting with

her.

2. Another woman, only in her late 30s, now lives in a nursing home. She is a

" frequent flyer " in our hospital now due to complications. Currently, she is in

our Critical Care Unit on TPN (which she has been on for the majority of the

time after her surgery.) Due to complications, she is severely malnourished and

has had to have both of her feet amputated.

I do agree that this surgery can literally save people's lives...because what

is a life if you cannot even get off of your bed or take care of yourself

because your are so obese? But I feel the surgery is getting performed all too

often and with little caution. There are just too many risks involved.

Jillian , RD, LD/N

" Ortiz, R.D. " wrote:

This is so interesting because I have 2 people I have worked with and a story

from a co-worker:

1) So inappropriate - I consulted at a Psych hospital and this woman was a

" frequent flyer " . Depressed for years, " mild " suicide attempts, had tried every

psych drug that was out there, a " cutter " , etc. They actually ok'd her for

gastric bypass. She lost weight, yes, but was so sick and malnourished and even

more depressed. She really felt this would be the answer for her depression.

The hospital went bankrupt soon after and I always wonder what happened with

her.

2) One of my nursing students had it done and it literally changed his life

for the better. He came to visit me and I didn't even recognize him.

3) One of my co-workers mother had it done - she did fine but she needed to

lose about 75-80 lbs. and they still did it.

Check Nutrition at my site:

Nutrition.teach-nology.com

Ortiz, RD

nrord@...

" The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher

demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

~ A. Ward ~

gastric bypass

>

> I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

> of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program

(I

> really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

> patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get

> to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

>

> I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

> never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over

again.

> She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great

choices.

> She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30

> pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting

etc.

> She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked

> me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

>

> Am I alone?

>

October 15, 2006

I would rather see more of these morbid obese folks try lapbands or an optifast

program. We are inducing permanent malnutrition- how ironic.

Judy Simon

>

> I work in a hospital where gastric bypass is done on a regular basis. And I

must say, I have seen too many patients get this surgery and end up with ruined

lives.

>

> Examples:

>

> 1. One woman, only in her late 30s, and did not have much to lose, got the

surgery. During the surgery, something went terribly wrong and the oxygen was

cut off to her brain long enough to put her in a comatose state for the rest of

her life. She is now on tube feedings and has a trach collar. Ultimately, her

gastric bypass needed to be reversed, but the damage to her brain will remain

permanent. It is the saddest thing to see her husband and family sitting with

her.

>

> 2. Another woman, only in her late 30s, now lives in a nursing home. She is

a " frequent flyer " in our hospital now due to complications. Currently, she is

in our Critical Care Unit on TPN (which she has been on for the majority of the

time after her surgery.) Due to complications, she is severely malnourished and

has had to have both of her feet amputated.

>

> I do agree that this surgery can literally save people's lives...because

what is a life if you cannot even get off of your bed or take care of yourself

because your are so obese? But I feel the surgery is getting performed all too

often and with little caution. There are just too many risks involved.

>

> Jillian , RD, LD/N

>

> " Ortiz, R.D. " wrote:

This is so interesting because I have 2 people I have worked with and a story

from a co-worker:

>

> 1) So inappropriate - I consulted at a Psych hospital and this woman was a

" frequent flyer " . Depressed for years, " mild " suicide attempts, had tried every

psych drug that was out there, a " cutter " , etc. They actually ok'd her for

gastric bypass. She lost weight, yes, but was so sick and malnourished and even

more depressed. She really felt this would be the answer for her depression.

The hospital went bankrupt soon after and I always wonder what happened with

her.

>

> 2) One of my nursing students had it done and it literally changed his life

for the better. He came to visit me and I didn't even recognize him.

>

> 3) One of my co-workers mother had it done - she did fine but she needed to

lose about 75-80 lbs. and they still did it.

>

> Check Nutrition at my site:

> Nutrition.teach-nology.com

> Ortiz, RD

> nrord@...

> " The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher

demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

> ~ A. Ward ~

>

> gastric bypass

> >

> > I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small

percentage

> > of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program

(I

> > really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

> > patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I

get

> > to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

> >

> > I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period.

We

> > never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over

again.

> > She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great

choices.

> > She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30

> > pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting

etc.

> > She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she

looked

> > me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I

agree.

> >

> > Am I alone?

> >

October 15, 2006

Regarding the gastric bypass thread, I have to ask if the following comment from

a previous e-mail is an assumption, or is there evidence for the statement:

" . . . some of those that are morbidly obese may not have 10 to 15

months to live because of their weight and co morbidities. So they don't really

care at this point because they most likely will not see 10 to 15

years if they do not get the surgery. "

While I have not yet found the evidence for this to be more than an assumption,

I have found evidence to the contrary, a multitude of which is referenced in

Glenn Gaesser's book Big Fat Lies. A sample from his book at the very least

should get us thinking, if not researching:

· Dr. Blair and associates at the Institute of Aerobics Research

in Dallas, Texas studied 10,244 men and 3,124 women between 1970-1981 and found

that being heavy did NOT increase the risk of dying prematurely. Furthermore,

when considered in combination with fitness, being overweight seemed to be

better than being underweight!

· Dr. Blair and his colleagues reported that after 8 1/2 years' follow-up on

25,389 men who had medical exams at the Clinic, the lowest death rates

were observed in the fittest men, regardless of how much they weighed.

· The famous Nurses' Health Study (which has been scaring people with its

alarming conclusions about the health risks of gaining weight ever since its

news-making scientific reports were released in 1995) has its own unmentioned

inconsistencies. After reporting that a weight gain of 11-17 pounds since age

18 was associated with a 25% higher risk of heart disease, the researchers

reported later that year that a weight gain of up to 20 pounds after the age of

18 did NOT increase the risk of dying from heart disease. In fact, the risk

associated with this degree of weight gain was 30% lower compared with women who

remained fairly weight stable. Furthermore, this study found a consistently

lower risk of breast cancer at higher body weights.

· Similar results about breast cancer in women as a disease for which extra

weight seems to be an advantage also come from 3 studies from Norway (one of

which numbered 570,000 women) and half a dozen from the U.S. and Canada.

· The famous, oft-quoted Framingham Heart Study originally concluded that being

overweight, and gaining weight after age 25, dramatically increased the risk of

heart disease. Although the 1983 paper continues to be cited as definitive

proof of the negative effect of obesity on health, two later reports undermine

the conclusions of the 1983 report. The second later report, issued in 1991,

incorporated the biannual weight measurement data (which were taken but not

analyzed in the original reports of the study). Researchers found that weight

gain was associated with a significantly lower risk of dying from heart disease

in both men and women. Weight gain also decreased overall mortality rates from

any and all causes in both men and women.

· Another relatively unpublicized report from the Framingham study shows that

heavier body weight is a distinct advantage in osteoporosis. Two studies at the

Mayo Clinic, one at Tufts, and one in France show similar results.

· Glenn Gaesser, author of Big Fat Lies and associate director of the Adult

Fitness Program at the University of Virginia, has observed firsthand in

counselling hundreds of men and women that the majority of individuals with high

blood pressure are NOT obese, and the majority of obese people do NOT have high

blood pressure. Countless research studies confirm this observation.

Furthermore, the standard advice to the obese hypertensive to " lose weight " may

have serious consequences. The evidence shows that hypertension more than

doubles the risk for early death in thin and nonobese people, whereas it only

marginally increases the risk of early death in obese people. The

weight-reduced hypertensive may be more likely to die from cardiovascular

disease!

75% of all the body weight-mortality studies published since the 1950's find

weight to be irrelevant to health and mortality, or suggest that heavy people

live longer! There are many long-range studies representing a variety of

populations, including:

Seven Countries Study (nearly 13,000 men in 7 countries)

Civil service employees in Great Britain, Denmark, and Paris

Maoris in New Zealand

Pima Indians in Arizona

Middle-aged men in Finland

San Francisco longshoremen

Employees of the Chicago Peoples Gas Company

Residents of Western Scotland

Californians in the Western Collaborative Group Study

State employees of New York in the Albany Study

African Americans in the ton Heart Study

County Heart Study

Kaiser-Permanente Study in the San Francisco Bay area

1,464 middle-aged women in University of Amsterdam 25-year study

741 white and 454 African American women in ton Heart Study 30-year

evaluation

2,731 women in Kaiser-Permanente Medical Care Program in Oakland 15-year study

17,159 Finnish women 12-year study

Furthermore . . .

Because obese people have more fat on their bodies it had been assumed that

they must also have more fat in their arteries. But the fact is that both

autopsy studies and coronary angiography studies have not been able to connect

weight or body fat to the existence of atherosclerosis or to progression of the

disease!

Autopsy Studies

· Many studies correlating weight, body fat, and atherosclerosis were conducted

in the 1940's and 1950's. Neither weight nor body fat has been related to

atherosclerosis.

· Dr. Yogesh Patel and colleagues at the Louisiana State University Medical

Center conducted autopsy analyses of 1,320 African American and Caucasian men.

Their conclusion: " . . . obesity itself is not an atherogenic agent. "

· NIH researchers Drs. Carole Warnes and , 1984 autopsy findings:

There was no more atherosclerosis in the coronary vessels of men and women who

weighed between 300-500 pounds at the time of death than in nonobese people of

the same age.

· The International Atherosclerosis Project, a landmark study evaluating the

coronary arteries from 23,000 people in 14 different countries, summarized by 23

physicians and scientists in 1968 found no association between body weight (or

other measures of obesity) and atherosclerosis.

For more than 5 decades autopsy studies have been consistently delivering

results that say that obesity does NOT cause heart disease!

Angiographic Studies

· Well over half of the angiographic studies done between 1976-1994 show that

obesity has NO relationship to either the presence or progression of

atherosclerosis. Numerous studies confirm that weight has nothing to do with

cholesterol levels. It's the fat in the diet, not on the body, that poses the

threat to health.

· The largest and most comprehensive study by Applegate at University of

Tennessee of over 4500 men and women showed that the fattest people, not the

thinnest, had the cleanest arteries!

· In the Cleveland Clinic Foundation study of 262 men and women, a slightly

greater percentage of nonobese men and women showed evidence of progression of

cardiovascular disease.

" Thinner is healthier " is NOT a fact but an unsubstantiated hypothesis. As of

2002 there has not been a single study that has evaluated the effects of weight

alone on health. Few if any studies to date have been designed carefully enough

to focus on weight while simultaneously excluding other likely influences on

health and well-being.

Failure to consider the location of fat may help explain why the research on the

health impact of obesity is riddled with inconsistencies.

There is equally overwhelming data presented showing that weight loss can be

harmful (don't get me wrong--if a person is exercising and eating right and

their body is supposed to lose weight, weight-loss does not increase their

chance of dying earlier). Just two examples from Gaesser's book:

· Dr. Blair and his colleagues studied 10,500 men at high risk for heart

disease enrolled in the Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial in 1973 and

found that weight loss, even for a subgroup of men who would seem to be optimum

beneficiaries of weight loss, resulted in 61-242% higher mortality rate from

cardiovascular disease. Weight gain did not significantly increase mortality

from heart disease.

· A study involving 200 extremely heavy young men on a weight loss program at

the Veterans Administration Wadsworth Medical Center in Los Angeles between

1960-1975 fasted, lost 60-90 pounds, and were followed for the next 7+ years.

Almost all of the men gained everything back and more. It was only after the

radical weight loss that the men started to have health problems--75 developed

diabetes, 39 became hypertensive, 19 were diagnosed with cardiovascular

disease, and 27 went undiagnosed and died of cardiovascular disease.

There's lots more, but I have already taken up more than fair space, point being

this is not just an undocumented opinion with a thread of evidence, but enough

evidence to raise concerns for us all to discern more. The studies cited are

very large, often very long, and quite numerous!

Respectfully,

Diane Preves, M.S., R.D.

N.E.W. LIFE (Nutrition, Exercise, Wellness for LIFE)

www.newlifeforhealth.com

e-mail: 4newlife@...

gastric bypass

I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

of

folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I

really

would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS patients who

have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get to see the

unlucky

patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

never

counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again. She

felt

SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices. She still

wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30 pounds a month

and

she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc. She is 280 and

looked

healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked me in the eyes and said

she

wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

Am I alone?

October 15, 2006

Lots of data - thanks Diane. I know in the case of my nursing student quality

of life was greatly improved. In fact he had to quit nursing school for awhile

because of health issues which are vastly improved now. So we need to look at

quality of life which I think motivates people more then health issues to get

the bypass.

Check Nutrition at my site:

Nutrition.teach-nology.com

Ortiz, RD

nrord@...

" The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher

demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

~ A. Ward ~

gastric bypass

I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small percentage

of

folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program (I

really

would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS patients who

have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I get to see the

unlucky

patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished afterwards.

I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period. We

never

counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over again. She

felt

SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great choices. She still

wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30 pounds a month

and

she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting etc. She is 280 and

looked

healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she looked me in the eyes and said

she

wished she had never had the surgery. I agree.

Am I alone?

October 16, 2006

I agree. We actually do have one surgeon who ONLY does the lapband procedure.

He refuses to do gastric bypass. His defense is that, in the long run, the

amount of weight loss is the same. It just takes longer for those with the

lapband. ...but this is a never-ending battle between the surgeons in our

hospital.

Jillian , RD, LD/N

" JUDY D. SIMON " wrote:

I would rather see more of these morbid obese folks try lapbands or an optifast

program. We are inducing permanent malnutrition- how ironic.

Judy Simon

>

> I work in a hospital where gastric bypass is done on a regular basis. And I

must say, I have seen too many patients get this surgery and end up with ruined

lives.

>

> Examples:

>

> 1. One woman, only in her late 30s, and did not have much to lose, got the

surgery. During the surgery, something went terribly wrong and the oxygen was

cut off to her brain long enough to put her in a comatose state for the rest of

her life. She is now on tube feedings and has a trach collar. Ultimately, her

gastric bypass needed to be reversed, but the damage to her brain will remain

permanent. It is the saddest thing to see her husband and family sitting with

her.

>

> 2. Another woman, only in her late 30s, now lives in a nursing home. She is

a " frequent flyer " in our hospital now due to complications. Currently, she is

in our Critical Care Unit on TPN (which she has been on for the majority of the

time after her surgery.) Due to complications, she is severely malnourished and

has had to have both of her feet amputated.

>

> I do agree that this surgery can literally save people's lives...because

what is a life if you cannot even get off of your bed or take care of yourself

because your are so obese? But I feel the surgery is getting performed all too

often and with little caution. There are just too many risks involved.

>

> Jillian , RD, LD/N

>

> " Ortiz, R.D. " wrote:

This is so interesting because I have 2 people I have worked with and a story

from a co-worker:

>

> 1) So inappropriate - I consulted at a Psych hospital and this woman was a

" frequent flyer " . Depressed for years, " mild " suicide attempts, had tried every

psych drug that was out there, a " cutter " , etc. They actually ok'd her for

gastric bypass. She lost weight, yes, but was so sick and malnourished and even

more depressed. She really felt this would be the answer for her depression.

The hospital went bankrupt soon after and I always wonder what happened with

her.

>

> 2) One of my nursing students had it done and it literally changed his life

for the better. He came to visit me and I didn't even recognize him.

>

> 3) One of my co-workers mother had it done - she did fine but she needed to

lose about 75-80 lbs. and they still did it.

>

> Check Nutrition at my site:

> Nutrition.teach-nology.com

> Ortiz, RD

> nrord@...

> " The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher

demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

> ~ A. Ward ~

>

> gastric bypass

> >

> > I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small

percentage

> > of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the program

(I

> > really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

> > patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I

get

> > to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished

afterwards.

> >

> > I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month period.

We

> > never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over

again.

> > She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great

choices.

> > She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing 30

> > pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting

etc.

> > She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she

looked

> > me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I

agree.

> >

> > Am I alone?

> >

October 16, 2006

A friend of mine was very obese and lost over a hundred pounds after the

bypass. She no longer uses insulin to control her diabetes, which was

hard to control before the surgery. She looks and feels great. I would

have thought she would not be a good candidate, but was a great move for

her. I had nothing to do with the surgery nor education.

Dave

W. Rowell, RD, LN

Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

Corporate Dietitian, Evergreen Health Care

LEAP Consultant Dietitian, Signet Diagnostics

_____

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf

Of Ortiz, R.D.

Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 4:10 PM

To: rd-usa

Subject: Re: gastric bypass

This is so interesting because I have 2 people I have worked with and a

story from a co-worker:

1) So inappropriate - I consulted at a Psych hospital and this woman was

a " frequent flyer " . Depressed for years, " mild " suicide attempts, had

tried every psych drug that was out there, a " cutter " , etc. They

actually ok'd her for gastric bypass. She lost weight, yes, but was so

sick and malnourished and even more depressed. She really felt this

would be the answer for her depression. The hospital went bankrupt soon

after and I always wonder what happened with her.

2) One of my nursing students had it done and it literally changed his

life for the better. He came to visit me and I didn't even recognize

him.

3) One of my co-workers mother had it done - she did fine but she needed

to lose about 75-80 lbs. and they still did it.

Check Nutrition at my site:

Nutrition.teach-nology.com

Ortiz, RD

nrord@... <mailto:nrord%40adelphia.net>

" The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior

teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

~ A. Ward ~

gastric bypass

>

> I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small

percentage

> of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the

program (I

> really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

> patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I

get

> to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished

afterwards.

>

> I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month

period. We

> never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over

again.

> She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great

choices.

> She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing

30

> pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting

etc.

> She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she

looked

> me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I

agree.

>

> Am I alone?

>

October 16, 2006

I acknowledge there are many folks who have lost weight and have no regrets. BUt

I find that there are so many who end uo with horrible problems, and the

surgeons really aren't that interested in what happens afterwards. We have one

surgeon in town (not at my facility) who won't even send his patients to an RD.

Judy Simon

> A friend of mine was very obese and lost over a hundred pounds after the

> bypass. She no longer uses insulin to control her diabetes, which was

> hard to control before the surgery. She looks and feels great. I would

> have thought she would not be a good candidate, but was a great move for

> her. I had nothing to do with the surgery nor education.

>

> Dave

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN

> Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> Corporate Dietitian, Evergreen Health Care

> LEAP Consultant Dietitian, Signet Diagnostics

>

> _____

>

> From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf

> Of Ortiz, R.D.

> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 4:10 PM

> To: rd-usa

> Subject: Re: gastric bypass

>

> This is so interesting because I have 2 people I have worked with and a

> story from a co-worker:

>

> 1) So inappropriate - I consulted at a Psych hospital and this woman was

> a " frequent flyer " . Depressed for years, " mild " suicide attempts, had

> tried every psych drug that was out there, a " cutter " , etc. They

> actually ok'd her for gastric bypass. She lost weight, yes, but was so

> sick and malnourished and even more depressed. She really felt this

> would be the answer for her depression. The hospital went bankrupt soon

> after and I always wonder what happened with her.

>

> 2) One of my nursing students had it done and it literally changed his

> life for the better. He came to visit me and I didn't even recognize

> him.

>

> 3) One of my co-workers mother had it done - she did fine but she needed

> to lose about 75-80 lbs. and they still did it.

>

> Check Nutrition at my site:

> Nutrition.teach-nology.com

> Ortiz, RD

> nrord@... <mailto:nrord%40adelphia.net>

> " The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior

> teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. "

> ~ A. Ward ~

>

> gastric bypass

>>

>> I am a dietitian who HATES this surgery. Yes I know for a small

> percentage

>> of folks this is a life saver. Thankfully, I don't work with the

> program (I

>> really would quit my job first), but I work wiht patients before (DSHS

>> patients who have to show they can lose 5% of their weight) and then I

> get

>> to see the unlucky patients who are now SEVERELY malnourished

> afterwards.

>>

>> I worked with a patient who went from 520 to 380 over a 9 month

> period. We

>> never counted calories, instead I helped her to learn to eat all over

> again.

>> She felt SO GOOD She could walk, play with her kids and made great

> choices.

>> She still wanted the surgery and had it done las July. She is losing

> 30

>> pounds a month and she is sick as a dog. Infections, nausea, vomitting

> etc.

>> She is 280 and looked healthier at 380. I saw her last week and she

> looked

>> me in the eyes and said she wished she had never had the surgery. I

> agree.

>>

>> Am I alone?

>>

October 16, 2006

Interesting. thanks for posting.

My one point is what was " overweight " in 1970-1981 is nothing compared to what

is overweight today. The commercials in the 80's talk about losing 10-25#'s. Now

the infor- commercials talk about weight loss > 100#'s. So like with everything

else one can not use one measurement to predict health. We're a complex

organism, not just a number.

Diane Preves wrote:

Regarding the gastric bypass thread, I have to ask if the following

comment from a previous e-mail is an assumption, or is there evidence for the

statement:

" . . . some of those that are morbidly obese may not have 10 to 15 months to

live because of their weight and co morbidities. So they don't really care at

this point because they most likely will not see 10 to 15 years if they do not

get the surgery. "

While I have not yet found the evidence for this to be more than an assumption,

I have found evidence to the contrary, a multitude of which is referenced in

Glenn Gaesser's book Big Fat Lies. A sample from his book at the very least

should get us thinking, if not researching:

· Dr. Blair and associates at the Institute of Aerobics Research

in Dallas, Texas studied 10,244 men and 3,124 women between 1970-1981 and found

that being heavy did NOT increase the risk of dying prematurely. Furthermore,

when considered in combination with fitness, being overweight seemed to be

better than being underweight!

· Dr. Blair and his colleagues reported that after 8 1/2 years' follow-up on

25,389 men who had medical exams at the Clinic, the lowest death rates

were observed in the fittest men, regardless of how much they weighed.

· The famous Nurses' Health Study (which has been scaring people with its

alarming conclusions about the health risks of gaining weight ever since its

news-making scientific reports were released in 1995) has its own unmentioned

inconsistencies. After reporting that a weight gain of 11-17 pounds since age 18

was associated with a 25% higher risk of heart disease, the researchers reported

later that year that a weight gain of up to 20 pounds after the age of 18 did

NOT increase the risk of dying from heart disease. In fact, the risk associated

with this degree of weight gain was 30% lower compared with women who remained

fairly weight stable. Furthermore, this study found a consistently lower risk of

breast cancer at higher body weights.

· Similar results about breast cancer in women as a disease for which extra

weight seems to be an advantage also come from 3 studies from Norway (one of

which numbered 570,000 women) and half a dozen from the U.S. and Canada.

· The famous, oft-quoted Framingham Heart Study originally concluded that being

overweight, and gaining weight after age 25, dramatically increased the risk of

heart disease. Although the 1983 paper continues to be cited as definitive proof

of the negative effect of obesity on health, two later reports undermine the

conclusions of the 1983 report. The second later report, issued in 1991,