Two Questions

[Guest guest]

> Fellow Groupmates,

>

> I'm new to the group and I have two questions since I'm about to

> start the chelation process with my child (could not find info in

> archives):

>

> 1. If you are admistering chelation with your child, can you do so

> when they have a cold or flu?

In theory, yes. In practice I would suggest not doing it.

> In other words, during your " on " week,

> do you continue the dosages if the child is sick? If so, any health

> concerns?

If they have a bacterial infection and you are using DMSA, the DMSA

may reduce the effectiveness of neutrophils in fighting off the

bacteria.

>

> 2. If chelating, do you continue supplementation (B6, magnesium,

> zinc, et. al)during your " on " week? I've heard two arguments, do it

> it doesn't matter and don't chelate when supplementing minerals. I

> don't know what to believe.

Always administer all supplements all the time regardless of chelation

status.

The minerals argument is made by doc's who are trying to explain

chemistry they don't know. The actual chemistry is that it doesn't

matter for the chelation, but the kids need to get the minerals every

single day.

> Any parents have good (or bad) experience

> maintaining the supplementation during the " on " cycle?

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

[Guest guest]

Andy,

This is probably a stupid question but here goes anyway?

Wouldn't the DMSA and/or ALA " grab " the good minerals as well as the

toxic ones? In theory, couldn't a person " waste " the dose pulling

essential minerals instead of toxic ones?

Our doctor has told us not to give minerals during on days. I wonder

if my son would be healthier if we gave them.

Thanks

Kathy

> > Fellow Groupmates,

> >

> > I'm new to the group and I have two questions since I'm about to

> > start the chelation process with my child (could not find info in

> > archives):

> >

> > 1. If you are admistering chelation with your child, can you do

so

> > when they have a cold or flu?

>

> In theory, yes. In practice I would suggest not doing it.

>

> > In other words, during your " on " week,

> > do you continue the dosages if the child is sick? If so, any

health

> > concerns?

>

> If they have a bacterial infection and you are using DMSA, the DMSA

> may reduce the effectiveness of neutrophils in fighting off the

> bacteria.

> >

> > 2. If chelating, do you continue supplementation (B6, magnesium,

> > zinc, et. al)during your " on " week? I've heard two arguments, do

it

> > it doesn't matter and don't chelate when supplementing minerals.

I

> > don't know what to believe.

>

> Always administer all supplements all the time regardless of

chelation

> status.

>

> The minerals argument is made by doc's who are trying to explain

> chemistry they don't know. The actual chemistry is that it doesn't

> matter for the chelation, but the kids need to get the minerals

every

> single day.

>

> > Any parents have good (or bad) experience

> > maintaining the supplementation during the " on " cycle?

> >

> > Thanks in advance,

> >

[Guest guest]

> First: Is it possible to get too much zinc? Right now my 40 lb.

son

> takes 60mg per day. He is on the MT Promoter and will soon be

> starting DMSA. I would like to add more if possible.

It is possible, but it's hard to manage it if he has a mercury

problem.

>

> Second: Are there any supplements that should NOT be given on

> the " on " days of DMSA?

no.

>

> Thanks!

> Barb

Andy . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. .

[Guest guest]

re: " Is it possible to get too much zinc? .

>

I'm not a medical practitioner, but I've been trying to learn how to

supplement my child's minerals properly. (Our first attempt made him

sicker, not healthier.) From what I've found on the web, it looks

like it is very possible to get too much zinc. One of the

consequences can be iron deficiency anemia. Another can be copper

deficiency. Another can be immune system suppression. But I don't

know how much zinc one would have to take to get those effects.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " katiezizi " <tazelaar@m...>

wrote:

> First: Is it possible to get too much zinc?

Yes. Some kids go hyper/wild when zinc is given, even if they are

low zinc and high copper. High zinc also has negative effects.

>> Right now my 40 lb. son

> takes 60mg per day. He is on the MT Promoter and will soon be

> starting DMSA. I would like to add more if possible.

Add slowly, and be prepared to stop if you notice negative effects.

http://www.danasview.net/metals.htm

Dana

[Guest guest]

Your daughter sounds a bit like mine. I didn't think I could afford testing, so

I chelated her with ALA for 10 rounds 3 1/2 on, 3 1/2 off. Then I decided to do

a hairtest anyway and found that she didn't quite meet the counting rules

(wonder whether she would have done prior to those 10 rounds), but was really

high on lead and antimony. So now I will start to chelate with DMSA. From my

experience, I would recommend a hair elements test anyway.

All the best to you and your children,

Dagmar.

[ ] two questions

I am chelating my 4 yo son with DSMA only (8 rounds so far) Other

than yeast......he has done very well, especially on the " on " days.

My first question is, if DSMA does not pull mercury from the brain,

what is causing this improvment?

I am now thinking of chelating my NT 6 yo daughter...she is slightly

hyperactive and has some visual processing problems. She seems to

misread social cues..but is very, almost overly social. She also

has always had a slightly distended abdomen, but no apparant

digestive problems. Are these signs of possible mercury toxicity? I

can't really afford any more lab tests so I was going to go ahead

with it. Is there any risk in chelating if she is not toxic? Thanks

for any opinions.

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> I am chelating my 4 yo son with DSMA only (8 rounds so far) Other

> than yeast......he has done very well, especially on the " on " days.

> My first question is, if DSMA does not pull mercury from the brain,

> what is causing this improvment?

Mercury doesn't settle only in the brain. It can be in the liver, kidneys,

etc....

Also, DMSA chelates lead. 8 rounds could mean a lot for a lead poisoned

person.

> Is there any risk in chelating if she is not toxic?

I don't think 2-3 rounds would harm anybody, if you watch carefully.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

> My first question is, if DSMA does not pull mercury from the brain,

> what is causing this improvment?

DMSA pulls lead, which leaches from tissues, so far as I understand

it. So once lead was pulled from other areas of the body, the lead,

if any, in the brain would leach out to create a new equilibrium in

the body. So you would be removing lead from the brain, just

indirectly.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I

> can't really afford any more lab tests so I was going to go ahead

> with it. Is there any risk in chelating if she is not toxic? Thanks

> for any opinions.

generally I think the risk would be ONLY the stuff actually

associated with the detox agent(s) themselves.

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim -

Well, in terms of question #1: yep. Sounds like our house. It also

delays social skills in general, which led to us " redshirting " my

oldest for 1 year for kindergarten. He just wasn't socially ready,

and rather than have him be the youngest in his kindergarten class,

we went for 1 year of preschool first. Work through it, and don't

rely on logic to get you out of it, even though you might have a 3+

year old perfectly capable of being logical in other situations. Get

the book " Making the Terrible Twos Terrific " . It works.

As for # 2 - that does sound odd - not diagnosing until 8 sounds very

late. I've not got experience with aspergers, but someone will

surely chime in.

Good luck - and don't worry, you'll like your son again!

Marina

[Guest guest]

Mark was recently at the neurologist for a re-eval and I mentioned Aspergers.

Mark just turned three. She said that it is not possible to properly diagnose

Aspergers till at least 6-7 years old and possibly eight. Mark does have eye

contact most of the time and his speech and OT/sensory issues have also been

improving w/therapy and EFA's and carnisone. The neurologist was very impressed

w/how Mark was doing. Cannot say for certain if Mark w/be just apraxic w/sid or

if he will be somewhere on the autistic spectrum(Cognitive abilities are age

appropriate). She said either way, she would want him to continue what we had

approved for preschool.

Hope this helps

Selena

[Guest guest]

Selena: May I ask....what caused you to ask your

pediatriian/neurologist about Aspergers? And, did they say why it

can't be diagnosed until ages 6-7?

Kim

[Guest guest]

I can totall relate to Question #1.

I've heard myself saying quite a lot lately " oh he has hit the terrible 3's "

He cries and whines a lot and his favorite saying lately is " I wanna go to

Mc's "

over and over. And God forbid if we drive by one and don't stop. It so worth

the 3.99 to stop and get something rather than listen to the crying for 20

minutes!!!! He fights with his brother, hits him and throws things!! Its

getting ridiculous.

He was fine when he was 2 maybe because he didn't realize how or that he

could express himself and now that he is 3 and saying many more words I guess

its

all coming out now. I think its just delayed behavioral issues and nothing to

really worry about. I reprimand him, use time outs an occasional spanking

and not much is working. I think he'll grow out of it as he continues to speak

more. Well know that you are not alone!!!! Hang in there!!!

Tyna (mom to 3,who has apraxia and Colin 5)

[Guest guest]

I don't believe in the terrible two's. All 3 of my kids were fairly

compliant at 2. As they got older they got bolder, louder, and more

defiant. At 2, I could still keep them in a room gated off. By 3,

they were climbing out of gates. I put locks on our front door up

high, and my daughters would get a chair, move it over to the door,

climb up, and unlock the door.

I thought 3 was very hard, and I thought 4 was one of the best

ages. It seems like at 4, they have developed some common sense.

They are more afraid of strangers (a good afraid). They understand

what could happen if they run into the street when a car is coming,

etc.

The only thing that was different about my daughter with apraxia was

she got more frustrated at 3 and 4, but she was non-verbal until she

was 4 1/2.

[Guest guest]

Hi Suzi!

I don't know if it's that I don't believe in the terrible two's -they are a

developmental stage -it's just that some kids go through this stage

later. For example Tanner didn't go through the terrible twos

either at two, I used to joke about his terrible threes. Many of

the children I know with apraxia did a number of things a bit later -

potty and terrible two's included. Not sure if it's developmental

or from having a communication impairment. I do know that when

Tanner first started to talk -he wanted to show his independence

where when he was nonverbal he was dependant on us.

In speaking to Kim today about this -we talked about a number of

things but one thing I brought up about this to keep in mind is that

most of us were parents that when our children first talked and

asked for anything we were so ecstatic that we jumped -or they said

something bad like " tupid mommy " and we are thinking " Wow! Two, two

syllable words!! That counts as a sentence doesn't it " Instead of

scolding them we were smiling with a dreamy look in our eyes, or even hugging

them (think

early days first talking -not down the road) It's all fixable down the road -so

enjoy.

There are many aspects that lead to behavioral problems after all -

some we can take part blame for -but for the most part it is a

normal healthy developmental stage. Our job is to find ways to work

around this stage and help them develop their independence -while

staying in the healthy role of parent.

If anyone wants to know the funniest trick to help stop a tantrum -

let me know! It's the end part of the " Invisible Tanner trick " that's in

The Late Talker book that was edited out (but it works and it's very

funny!)

=====

[Guest guest]

---that we jumped -or they said

> something bad like " tupid mommy " and we are thinking " Wow! Two,

two

> syllable words!! That counts as a sentence doesn't it " Instead of

> scolding them we were smiling with a dreamy look in our eyes, or

even hugging them (think

> early days first talking -not down the road) It's all fixable down

the road -so enjoy.

LOL! I remember my son said " shit " at his second birthday party and

we were all so happy...A NEW WORD! Now he repeats everything...I

guess I need to clean my mouth out.

3.4

[Guest guest]

I relate completely to the terrible 3's as well - true for both of my

boys. The more emergent they become (one autistic, one apraxic) -

the more the behaviors are popping up. My boys are defintely at

least a year behind in social development (or more) - and for my

apraxic twin, the more words he has (not a lot, but enough to get

across basic needs and more importantly - WANTS!!! computer, video,

outside, etc) and since I can understand these basic words - when I

say no...yikes! The whining is out of control too - but I just smile

through gritted teeth and tell myself over and over " it's one of the

few age appropriate things he does " .

Regarding Aspergers - I'm not an expert, my son has autism - but from

the conferences I've attended and the reading I've done - the reason

Apsergers is not diagnosed until later is due to the fact that these

kids are not necessarily presenting as autisitc at a young age. In

fact, most Aspergers kids are extremely verbal very young, make eye

contact and often can play with toys appropriately. The problem that

develops are the social aspects. Aspergers kids do not know how to

read social cues, do not understand how to develop relationships -

how to make friends or play with other kids. They often have

communication/language issues as well. They are very verbal, but are

not able to have true turn taking conversations. They tend to become

fixated on one topic. Often, their speech patterns are slightly

off. Aspergers is a relatively new diagnosis because these kids

were falling through the cracks. Does this help?

-

[Guest guest]

Tyna: I was laughing reading your message, it seems that we are

going through the same issues together. Mcs and Burger King

seem to rule with our kids! And yes, there are times when I think,

OK, just go in and play at Burger king for a while, eat and have

fun. But if the timing doesn't work for a " quick stop " , then

is going to have to learn the hard way that life does not revolve

around him. It is a tough lesson for all kids, and the fact that we

are going through this stage, even though later, it is a good sign.

Not that it is easy to endure.

And, helped me to understand what I already knew, that I tend to

over-react some issues with , because of his special needs.

When my NT 11-year old daughter doesn't want to wear a certain outfit

that I have selected for a special occasion, I just say, OK, what do

you want to wear and end of story. I don't worry about a and

her independence. But when says, " no mommy, I dont want to

wear the shirt with GAP on it " , I freak out. I think, OH NO, WHAT IS

WRONG NOW? I think, is this rigid behavior? Is this a sensory

problem? Is this a prelude to another diagnosis? And so on.

Sometimes I read SO MUCH, that I get confused. And when I read

symptoms of so many disorders, it is easy to " self-diagnose " my son,

because those symptoms can be seen is many other disorders, they are

not always exclusive to one specific disorder or diagnosis. I have

to remind myself that showing one or two symptoms occassionally is

not the same thing as showing those symptoms consistantly.

Right now, loves to paint, and asks to paint every day coming

home from school. He loves watching movies and has about 5 different

movies that he loves, and doesn't want to watch others. I tend to

over react that he has limited interests, that he doesn't want to

play with toys. In fact, other kids in my neighborhood who are not

special needs kids do the same thing. One mother can't stand to

watch Spiderman again...her son watches it over and over. But they

don't over-react, because they don't have every little symptom of

about 5 different disorders ingrained in their head.

I appreciate all the responses to my questions, and it is good to

know that many of us are in the same boat together, and somehow, we

will get through this stage and start a new stage soon.

Kim

> I can totall relate to Question #1.

> I've heard myself saying quite a lot lately " oh he has hit the

terrible 3's "

> He cries and whines a lot and his favorite saying lately is " I

wanna go to

> Mc's "

> over and over. And God forbid if we drive by one and don't stop.

It so worth

> the 3.99 to stop and get something rather than listen to the crying

for 20

> minutes!!!! He fights with his brother, hits him and throws

things!! Its

> getting ridiculous.

> He was fine when he was 2 maybe because he didn't realize how or

that he

> could express himself and now that he is 3 and saying many more

words I guess its

> all coming out now. I think its just delayed behavioral issues and

nothing to

> really worry about. I reprimand him, use time outs an occasional

spanking

> and not much is working. I think he'll grow out of it as he

continues to speak

> more. Well know that you are not alone!!!! Hang in there!!!

> Tyna (mom to 3,who has apraxia and Colin 5)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The reason why I say I don't believe in the terrible two's is that

even " normal " children can be a pain at 3 and older.

You are definitely right on target about when our kids talked we

made a big deal about it, even if it was something bad. It can

definitely cause behavior problems. I remember when finally

said " I want bubble gum. " It was her first sentence, and I

immediately got her bubble gum. After that, she would go around

saying " I want... " " I want..... " " I want.... " , and she pretty much

got what she asked for. Finally, I had to start saying " No " , and

she had a horrible time adjusting to me saying no.

wrote:

> I don't know if it's that I don't believe in the terrible two's -

they are a

> developmental stage -it's just that some kids go through this

stage

> later. For example Tanner didn't go through the terrible twos

> either at two, I used to joke about his terrible threes. Many of

> the children I know with apraxia did a number of things a bit

later -

> potty and terrible two's included. Not sure if it's developmental

> or from having a communication impairment. I do know that when

> Tanner first started to talk -he wanted to show his independence

> where when he was nonverbal he was dependant on us.

>

> In speaking to Kim today about this -we talked about a number of

> things but one thing I brought up about this to keep in mind is

that

> most of us were parents that when our children first talked and

> asked for anything we were so ecstatic that we jumped -or they

said

> something bad like " tupid mommy " and we are thinking " Wow! Two,

two

> syllable words!! That counts as a sentence doesn't it " Instead

of

> scolding them we were smiling with a dreamy look in our eyes, or

even hugging them (think

> early days first talking -not down the road) It's all fixable

down the road -so enjoy.

>

> There are many aspects that lead to behavioral problems after all -

> some we can take part blame for -but for the most part it is a

> normal healthy developmental stage. Our job is to find ways to

work

> around this stage and help them develop their independence -while

> staying in the healthy role of parent.

>

> If anyone wants to know the funniest trick to help stop a tantrum -

> let me know! It's the end part of the " Invisible Tanner trick "

that's in

> The Late Talker book that was edited out (but it works and it's

very

[Guest guest]

Selena:

I was interested in your thoughts on carnisone? At what age did you

begin to give it to Mark? Any side effects? I have read

responses regarding this and they seem to be different for every

child. How much EFA supplimentation is he getting as well?

I have a 2.9 yr old daughter that is currently on [2] cap of EFA. I

have seen improvement...not HUGE surges, but def. improvement with

the initial cap and then when I increased to two.

(Mom to 2.9, global apraxia, hypotonia, SID)

--- In , " selelk " <selelk@w...>

wrote:

> Mark was recently at the neurologist for a re-eval and I mentioned

Aspergers. Mark just turned three. She said that it is not possible

to properly diagnose Aspergers till at least 6-7 years old and

possibly eight. Mark does have eye contact most of the time and his

speech and OT/sensory issues have also been improving w/therapy and

EFA's and carnisone. The neurologist was very impressed w/how Mark

was doing. Cannot say for certain if Mark w/be just apraxic w/sid or

if he will be somewhere on the autistic spectrum(Cognitive abilities

are age appropriate). She said either way, she would want him to

continue what we had approved for preschool.

> Hope this helps

> Selena

[Guest guest]

Kim,

When we started checking out Mark about his developmental delays, around 11

months, he had no eye contact, no babbling, couldn't have a cherrio in his mouth

without gagging and throwing up. Mark was born w/severe reflux. Most of his

first year was spent on medical issues-reflux, throwing up, wheezing, food

allergies, diarrhea. It wasn't until the neurologist mentioned apraxia at a

checkup that I even heard of it-she said " wait and see, nothing to be done now "

Thank god I immediately looked up apraxia on the web and found the cherub

website. From there I gained information which was helpful in myself pushing

for certain services for Mark. It was mentioned by an outside neighbor who

happened to be in special education therapy about the possibility of Mark

being " autistic " . The neurologist always said it would be a wait and see

approach. Mark has consistantly gained throughout his therapies. His behavior

still continues to be a big problem. As I have been trying to figure out our

family trees(a 2nd cousin just 3 weeks younger than Mark already has an autistic

diagnosis, a 2nd cousin has familiar dysautonomia, my nephew has cystic

fibrosis, plenty of food and environmental type allergies, dylexia, learning

disabilites, etc), I'm plagued by this knot inside " where did this come

from " " how can I best help him " " why doesn't everyone stop telling me, he'll

outgrow this "

I mentioned " autistic spectrum " at his latest cc in Aug. Based on the

" definition " of asd, Mark may or may not fit the profile, even his ei therapists

wouldn't say for certain. The diagnosis doesn't bother me, call Mark whatever

you will, but let him get the appropriate help and therapy. That's when she

said, you couldn't say for certain yet, Mark just turned three. Either way, she

was happy w/the services already approved. Mark is in a special preschool five

half days a week, w/one on one speech 3 days and OT twice a week. He also thru

his day care, has a regular preschool program as well(his cognitive abilities

are normal to near normal)

I think all the autistic disorders are hard to pinpoint. If you look at the

archive messages here on the board,

[Guest guest]

, Of course I want to know!

Tammy

If anyone wants to know the funniest trick to help stop a tantrum -

let me know! It's the end part of the " Invisible Tanner trick " that's in

The Late Talker book that was edited out (but it works and it's very

funny!)

=====

[Guest guest]

: I too would like to know this great trick. It seems with the

transition of starting preschool and that time frame of between age 3 and 3

½, the temper flares more (plus he has had a cold).

Thanks,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane,

You are right, usually the bottom fills out first, then the top.

Does she have torticollis? That can cause the facial asymmetry to

be much worse. My son's face looks fine in person but looking at

him in a mirror, I cringe, poor thing. Anyway, are you in PT?

Natasha

>

> My daughter is has been in the Starband since Oct. 13 (11

> weeks). She started the Starband when she was about 6 months old,

> adjusted age (she's a preemie), and she's about 9 months old now.

> She started with a moderate case of plagio with flatness on her

> right-hand side, and a more severe case of brachy. The first 6

> weeks, things went really well. The flatness on the right-hand

side

> on the back of her head filled in very nicely, and the bottom part

> of the back of her head also filled in pretty well. But, there

are

> still a couple problems.

>

> The problem that scares me the most is the one I noticed today.

The

> right hand side of her face (her right) is much farther forward

than

> the left hand side. Over the past week, I have noticed that her

> left eye seems to be more closed than her right. So I started

> studying her face, but didn't notice any asymmetry. But, then I

put

> her in front of a mirror, and it was so obvious! Her face is so

> uneven! I'm so worried. I thought that once the back of her head

> was more evened out, her face should even out as well. And I

> certainly didn't think her face would become MORE uneven while she

> was wearing the helmet. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it

> just because she's growing, so I can see the uneven-ness of her

face

> now? We had to skip our regular bi-weekly visit to the orthotist

> last week b/c he had an emergency, so we haven't been in three

> weeks. I think I am going to call tomorrow to see if they can see

> me ASAP (lol). Right now, we are scheduled for a scan next Friday.

>

> The other problem has been ongoing, and has to do with her

brachy.

> The bottom part of the back of her head has rounded out a bit, but

> the top part is still pretty flat. So now she has a ridge in the

> back of her head b/c the bottom part sticks out farther than the

> top. Has anyone else dealt with this? Will it ever fill in? I

> think I read that this part of the head is the hardest part to fix

> with the helmet, since it's where all the sutures come together.

>

> Thanks for any help you can offer!

> Diane O.

> Atlanta

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane,

You are right, usually the bottom fills out first, then the top.

Does she have torticollis? That can cause the facial asymmetry to

be much worse. My son's face looks fine in person but looking at

him in a mirror, I cringe, poor thing. Anyway, are you in PT?

Natasha

>

> My daughter is has been in the Starband since Oct. 13 (11

> weeks). She started the Starband when she was about 6 months old,

> adjusted age (she's a preemie), and she's about 9 months old now.

> She started with a moderate case of plagio with flatness on her

> right-hand side, and a more severe case of brachy. The first 6

> weeks, things went really well. The flatness on the right-hand

side

> on the back of her head filled in very nicely, and the bottom part

> of the back of her head also filled in pretty well. But, there

are

> still a couple problems.

>

> The problem that scares me the most is the one I noticed today.

The

> right hand side of her face (her right) is much farther forward

than

> the left hand side. Over the past week, I have noticed that her

> left eye seems to be more closed than her right. So I started

> studying her face, but didn't notice any asymmetry. But, then I

put

> her in front of a mirror, and it was so obvious! Her face is so

> uneven! I'm so worried. I thought that once the back of her head

> was more evened out, her face should even out as well. And I

> certainly didn't think her face would become MORE uneven while she

> was wearing the helmet. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it

> just because she's growing, so I can see the uneven-ness of her

face

> now? We had to skip our regular bi-weekly visit to the orthotist

> last week b/c he had an emergency, so we haven't been in three

> weeks. I think I am going to call tomorrow to see if they can see

> me ASAP (lol). Right now, we are scheduled for a scan next Friday.

>

> The other problem has been ongoing, and has to do with her

brachy.

> The bottom part of the back of her head has rounded out a bit, but

> the top part is still pretty flat. So now she has a ridge in the

> back of her head b/c the bottom part sticks out farther than the

> top. Has anyone else dealt with this? Will it ever fill in? I

> think I read that this part of the head is the hardest part to fix

> with the helmet, since it's where all the sutures come together.

>

> Thanks for any help you can offer!

> Diane O.

> Atlanta

>