Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 & gt; From: acsnag@... & gt; Subject: Re: FC Nazis...... & gt; I gather you are not a very nice person. You attack people on this list & gt; regarding something that happened elsewhere. That has no business here. I do not feel attacked. I don't feel that Jerry (and I don't know who he is) is " not a very nice person " on the basis of his message. I was able to discern independently that he is frustrated within the NT-run system that limits AS diagnosed people the right to defend and express themselves. Even at my most literal, I do not believe that Jerry believes that the forum to which he is invited is run by a sanctioned third reich membership because he wouldn't participate. Obviously, he is frustrated and I would like to know why particularly because there is significant pressure from the parties mentioned (Rita Rubin) to present the facets of autism according to their (NT) perspective rather than inclusion from all aspects of the spectrum from those who know it best. Similarly, I do not agree that his message had " no business here " . When I signed up, I was informed that this list was about ***whatever*** I or any other autistic person chose to discuss. You are saying that is untrue and that the content of our thoughts must be CENSORED to meet the dictates of your -what I would deem as narrow- approval. Ma'am, I don't know who you are or why it is that you seem to feel that are best qualified to determine what I read or why you think you have the right to pre-select whatever material I am permitted to read but I do not acquiesce! Rather, the content of your message tells me I definitely do not want a mind such as yours to filter my available reading material! As I understand it, Jerry is protesting censorship (a preferred nazi method to control the dissemination of dissent) and tragically, you are suggesting censorship (albeit self-censorship) yourself; the very thing he is protesting! & gt; You call people Nazis. In all likelihood they are no closer to being & gt; nazis than you are. Things that go on on ASA Alive should be addressed & gt; there not here where they have no opportunity to defend themselves. As one who knows, it is often impossible to be " heard " in a controlled forum (ASA Alive *and* this list if you ran it) and outside vehicles of expression are required to inform and educate those affected. The Nazis shut down all other venues of dissent permitting only their poison to spread...is that what you really want? Isn't that what you are effectively suggesting? ASA Alive (whatever that is) is far from representing my perspectives...as are you. & gt; After your comments here I don't think I'd be interested in hearing you & gt; speak, ever! Then don't listen to him speak and don't read it. I have no problem reading material I find personally repugnant. In fact, I try to read offensive material in order to counter it should the opportunity arise. Of the two, I found your speech to be the more offensive because it suggests I am not of sufficient intelligence to read, analyze and make my own conclusions. Nevertheless, I would not sanction your speech either. I prefer to counter it as I am doing here. & gt; From: " Gerald Newport " & lt;wholphin48@... & gt; & gt; Subject: FC Nazis...... & gt; Some FC fan on " ASA Alive " can't handle any reality. His last What is FC? Where is this " ASA Alive " ? Kathleen Fasanella http://www.kathleenfasanella.com ===== ~~~~Nurture people, not products~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 > What is FC? It is typically typing (can also be pointing, writing, etc) with the help of physical touch/pressure by another person. It's controversial - people tend to say it is either always legitimate or always not legitimate. The controversial element is that some forms of FC rely on supporting the wrist, and could be used by people to get the autistic person who doesn't have another form of reliable communication to say what the " facilitator " wants. That said, anyone who says it is always communication or never communication is wrong. There is legitimate FC. There's illegitimate FC. It's hard to tell the two apart from outside observation. Legitimate FC attempts to progress from supporting the wrist to eventually no supports (with typically a progression of support - first wrist, later forearm, then elbow, then shoulder, etc, that becomes less and less likely to be questioned; however, some people don't progress). Someone who doesn't have the type of movement disorder that FC helps won't understand why someone might need it to communicate. But there is a real physical movement disorder that it does help overcome. I've seen legitimate and illegitimate FC. I've seen a lot that I didn't have enough information to rule in or out as legitimate. It's easy to say someone typing with only a hand on the shoulder is probably legitimate, although you *STILL* don't know for sure, since that person may be exerting psychological pressure (often the facilitator is a parent or someone who talks to the parent a lot - do you talk the same way around your parents as you do around others when they aren't there?). And on the other side, holding the wrist looks to a lot of people like puppetting the autistic person, but according to people who have become independent communicators after initially using FC, it isn't always - some have said that, yes, they *were* communicating their thoughts at the time. I'm hesitant to say an individual incident of FC is either communication or not communication. Misclassifying either is a big mistake. I do think you have to be aware of the potential for " influence " with FC, but I also think you have to do that anytime an autistic is not by themselves. And when the autistic is by themselves, even then we don't always say what we mean. It's a hard area to make clear rules of what is " legitimate " or not. But anyone who takes the stance that it isn't ever legitimate is ignoring first hand autistic experience, and anyone who takes the stance that it is always legitimate is also ignoring that. It's like saying " All families are abusive " or " No family is abusive " . There are often more then two options - not necessarily just " two extremes and something in the middle " even though our TV culture would try to convince you of that. > Where is this " ASA Alive " ? I'm guessing something associated with the Autism Society of America, an organization I have very little respect for - despite having an autistic person on their board, I've seen no evidence that they value the welfare of the autistic perspective when it conflicts with the parent perspective. I know that there are good people in the ASA and in the local chapters. I also know that there are bad people in the organization. I have an autistic friend I really respect who is associated with the ASA. But these are very much the exception, the organization as a whole does not appear to take the autistic perspective seriously. One of the things I most object to is their stance, which they support through official publications of an " autism epidemic " and how " expensive " we all are. If you are bored sometime, search for organizations that claim to represent people with Down's Syndrome who even mention the cost to society of Down's Syndrome. You won't find them. In fact, this tactic wouldn't be allowed for nearly any other disability. But, like in all other things, Autism is so horrible that we need to mention the cost - the human rights of those pesky autistics are just speed-bumps to getting to the goal. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:26:17 -0800 > > Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > Subject: Re: FC nazis > > Kathleen wrote: > >> What is FC? > > and responded: > >It is typically typing (can also be pointing, writing, etc) with the help > >of physical touch/pressure by another person. > > FC stands for Facilitated Communication. DOH! Talk about a ToM burp! -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 At 07:48 AM 8/13/2004 -0700, designer-entrepreneurs.com wrote: >What is FC? facilitated communication (see http://www.PlanetAutism.com/fcpage.htm for links) >Where is this " ASA Alive " ? http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ASA_Alive/ >Kathleen Fasanella ><http://www.kathleenfasanella.com>http://www.kathleenfasanella.com -jypsy ________________________________ Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome Autism Spectrum Resources www.PlanetAutism.com jypsy@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Kathleen wrote: >> What is FC? and responded: >It is typically typing (can also be pointing, writing, etc) with the help >of physical touch/pressure by another person. FC stands for Facilitated Communication. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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