Re: For Sally 2 PLEASE HELP

[Guest guest]

Dear things have really gone downhill the last 2 days.

It is now about 6 months since I swapped to 20mg prozac from 20mg

seroxat and over the last 5 months I have reduced down to 6mg.

Throughout this time (apart from a 10 day break) I have also been

using valium. Max 6mg a day but mainly 1 ½ - 2mg a day.

Over the last two weeks Ive felt increasingly vulnerable (although I

put some of this down to my husband being away and PMT) and for the

last couple of days I have had severe panic attacks which don't

respond to any breathing exercises / relaxation etc. (My husband in

now home and PMT is no longer the issue.)

I am also very very down and feel desperate.

It's virtually impossible for me to tell whether this is the return

of original anxiety symptoms or withdrawal. The last couple of years

trying to get off seroxat have been so incredibly difficult that it

could even be the withdrawal experience telling its toll. I am just

at the point now where I cant imagine being well again (it's more

than 2 years ago now since id been feeling well for months/ had

reduced slowly off the seroxat and then felt really well for the

first four weeks off until I crashed down and ended up back up to

30mg.)

Anyway – the SSRI charity are very keen for me to come off the prozac

and onto St s Wort. They have said that I could just stop the

prozac and start the St s Wort tomorrow?????

They also advise upping the valium for a few days (working on the

theory that Im already addicted to it so a few more weeks wont make

much difference.)

**The reason I'm keen to give the St s Wort a try is because I

was really hoping to get off all SSRI's. I had really hoped that I

would be able to stabilise on the prozac and do this but it simply

hasn't happened. I really feel that in this state I need something

but I just want to try one last ditch attempt to avoid going onto

another SSRI. I have two young children to look after and need to be

able to function.

*Do you think that coming off the prozac straight away or reducing

quickly (6mg in a month) because I feel so unwell anyway is viable

(or stupid)

* Do you know of any problems of going onto St s Wort after an

SSRI? (I did take it when I was originally diagnosed with anxiety

based PND. I really didn't want to use AD's and didn't have any

problems with it but was persuaded that if I wanted to get better

then I needed to use `proper medication.')

* Could I still take valium while on St s Wort – with the aim of

weaning off the valium.

* Do you think I should just forget the idea of St s Wort and go

onto something else like cipramil instead (and just be grateful that

Im not taking seroxat anymore.)

I managed to get some magnesium and calcium but all I could get

indidually were 150mg magnesium capsules and 800mg calcium tablets.

how should I take these.

Ive have been using the aconite as suggested but it just hasnt been

enough to touch the panic.

Im really sorry this is so long.

Sallyx

> Dear Sally,

>

>

> Did you ever get Aspen and Star of Bethlehem? If so, how often

are you

> using them? Thx.

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sally,

You said:

<<things have really gone downhill the last 2 days.

It is now about 6 months since I swapped to 20mg prozac from 20mg

seroxat and over the last 5 months I have reduced down to 6mg.

Throughout this time (apart from a 10 day break) I have also been

using valium. Max 6mg a day but mainly 1 ½ - 2mg a day.

Over the last two weeks Ive felt increasingly vulnerable (although I

put some of this down to my husband being away and PMT) and for the

last couple of days I have had severe panic attacks which don't

respond to any breathing exercises / relaxation etc. (My husband in

now home and PMT is no longer the issue.)

I am also very very down and feel desperate.

It's virtually impossible for me to tell whether this is the return

of original anxiety symptoms or withdrawal. The last couple of years

trying to get off seroxat have been so incredibly difficult that it

could even be the withdrawal experience telling its toll. I am just

at the point now where I cant imagine being well again (it's more

than 2 years ago now since id been feeling well for months/ had

reduced slowly off the seroxat and then felt really well for the

first four weeks off until I crashed down and ended up back up to

30mg.)

Anyway - the SSRI charity are very keen for me to come off the prozac

and onto St s Wort. They have said that I could just stop the

prozac and start the St s Wort tomorrow?????

They also advise upping the valium for a few days (working on the

theory that Im already addicted to it so a few more weeks wont make

much difference.)

The reason I'm keen to give the St s Wort a try is because I

was really hoping to get off all SSRI's. I had really hoped that I

would be able to stabilise on the prozac and do this but it simply

hasn't happened. I really feel that in this state I need something

but I just want to try one last ditch attempt to avoid going onto

another SSRI. I have two young children to look after and need to be

able to function.

Do you think that coming off the prozac straight away or reducing

quickly (6mg in a month) because I feel so unwell anyway is viable

(or stupid)

* Do you know of any problems of going onto St s Wort after an

SSRI? (I did take it when I was originally diagnosed with anxiety

based PND. I really didn't want to use AD's and didn't have any

problems with it but was persuaded that if I wanted to get better

then I needed to use `proper medication.')

* Could I still take valium while on St s Wort - with the aim of

weaning off the valium.

* Do you think I should just forget the idea of St s Wort and go

onto something else like cipramil instead (and just be grateful that

Im not taking seroxat anymore.) >>

** Sally, you want to try it, so try it. But no, don't do the

Cipramil. You'll find yourself in the same boat you're in now.

You said:

<<I managed to get some magnesium and calcium but all I could get

indidually were 150mg magnesium capsules and 800mg calcium tablets.

how should I take these.>>

** 2 mag. caps at a time, 1 calcium in between mag doses. I'd begin the

day with calcium and end it with mag at bedtime.

You said:

<<Ive have been using the aconite as suggested but it just hasnt been

enough to touch the panic.>>

** I believe that because of the origin of your panic, Aconite was not

appropriate for you. Aconite works only for panic attacks that come out of

nowhere, not those stemming from anxiety about certain issues.

As you may recall, and as I asked in my last email, if you got the Bach

remedies I recommended to you for the type of anxiety you are experiencing.

You didn't respond to this.

I hesitate to respond in depth because I've put so much into this and

answered most of these questions repeatedly. It is draining to do this with

a person who doesn't at least save earlier responses. It's not necessary

for people to take my suggestions, but it is necessary for people who don't

to stop writing me with the same questions. We've gone over this info for

several months, Sally. I just can't keep doing it this way.

I can't help but think you wouldn't be stuck where you are in this had you

acted quickly several months ago to mitigate it after you came here seeking

information. There are windows of opportunity that exist before more damage

sets in. You've gone on past these windows. Now, it is much more

complicated. Complicated cases require complicated solutions and sticking

to the protocols that are the solutions. There's been no indication that

you would do that so there is no indication that I should put as much time

and energy into this as I have (I've been researching your neck symptom in

thr homeopathic literature and asked several homeopaths for their thoughts

on this).

At this point, until you're really thinking you want to try the things we

talk about, I need to conserve my energy and spend my time in a more

effective manner. I'm not at all suggesting you leave the group. You're

quite welcome here. You're also welcome to ask new questions.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Dear

Im sorry for the problems I have caused.

I did respond to the bach message but it doesnt seem to have appeared.

The note said that yes I did get the Aspen and have been taking it

several times a day but havent been able to get the other one. I

will continue to try and get this.

I have also been taking fresh squeezed lemon in water.

I have saved all your messages/ printed them off and have tried all

the suggestions you have made. One of the earliest pieces of advice

you gave me was to not try lots of different things in a desperate

bid to make things better- and I have tried to avoid doing this.

You suggested the aconite to me because my panic attacks have

always 'appeared out of nowhere'. They have been like that right

from the start.

I asked the question again about the magnesium simply because I hadnt

been able to get the doses you had suggested so wanted to check I was

doing the right thing.

Im afraid Im writing this note in tears. I have fought and fought

over the last 2 years to get off these drugs and your suggestion that

my lack of action has just made things worse is devastating. I have

been so dedicated to beat this for the sake of my children and I

genuinely did believe that I was following your advice.

When I wrote the note to you below I was totally and utterly

desperate and I'm sorry that there was some repetition but to be

honest I was finding it very very difficult to think straight and wa

just reaching out.

I realise from what you've said that maybe my case is just too

complicated now and that there is little that can be done to help me.

I know that you dedicate a lot of time to this work and realise that

you need to concentrate your efforts and energies on people who may

actually eventually benefit and get better.

Sallyx

> Dear Sally,

>

>

>

> You said:

>

>

> <<things have really gone downhill the last 2 days.

>

> It is now about 6 months since I swapped to 20mg prozac from 20mg

> seroxat and over the last 5 months I have reduced down to 6mg.

> Throughout this time (apart from a 10 day break) I have also been

> using valium. Max 6mg a day but mainly 1 ½ - 2mg a day.

>

>

>

> Over the last two weeks Ive felt increasingly vulnerable (although I

> put some of this down to my husband being away and PMT) and for the

> last couple of days I have had severe panic attacks which don't

> respond to any breathing exercises / relaxation etc. (My husband in

> now home and PMT is no longer the issue.)

>

> I am also very very down and feel desperate.

>

>

> It's virtually impossible for me to tell whether this is the return

> of original anxiety symptoms or withdrawal. The last couple of

years

> trying to get off seroxat have been so incredibly difficult that it

> could even be the withdrawal experience telling its toll. I am just

> at the point now where I cant imagine being well again (it's more

> than 2 years ago now since id been feeling well for months/ had

> reduced slowly off the seroxat and then felt really well for the

> first four weeks off until I crashed down and ended up back up to

> 30mg.)

>

>

>

> Anyway - the SSRI charity are very keen for me to come off the

prozac

> and onto St s Wort. They have said that I could just stop the

> prozac and start the St s Wort tomorrow?????

>

> They also advise upping the valium for a few days (working on the

> theory that Im already addicted to it so a few more weeks wont make

> much difference.)

>

>

> The reason I'm keen to give the St s Wort a try is because I

> was really hoping to get off all SSRI's. I had really hoped that I

> would be able to stabilise on the prozac and do this but it simply

> hasn't happened. I really feel that in this state I need something

> but I just want to try one last ditch attempt to avoid going onto

> another SSRI. I have two young children to look after and need to

be

> able to function.

>

> Do you think that coming off the prozac straight away or reducing

> quickly (6mg in a month) because I feel so unwell anyway is viable

> (or stupid)

>

> * Do you know of any problems of going onto St s Wort after an

> SSRI? (I did take it when I was originally diagnosed with anxiety

> based PND. I really didn't want to use AD's and didn't have any

> problems with it but was persuaded that if I wanted to get better

> then I needed to use `proper medication.')

>

> * Could I still take valium while on St s Wort - with the aim of

> weaning off the valium.

> * Do you think I should just forget the idea of St s Wort and go

> onto something else like cipramil instead (and just be grateful that

> Im not taking seroxat anymore.) >>

>

>

>

> ** Sally, you want to try it, so try it. But no, don't do

the

> Cipramil. You'll find yourself in the same boat you're in now.

>

>

> You said:

>

> <<I managed to get some magnesium and calcium but all I could get

> indidually were 150mg magnesium capsules and 800mg calcium tablets.

> how should I take these.>>

>

>

>

> ** 2 mag. caps at a time, 1 calcium in between mag doses. I'd

begin the

> day with calcium and end it with mag at bedtime.

>

>

> You said:

>

> <<Ive have been using the aconite as suggested but it just hasnt

been

> enough to touch the panic.>>

>

> ** I believe that because of the origin of your panic, Aconite

was not

> appropriate for you. Aconite works only for panic attacks that

come out of

> nowhere, not those stemming from anxiety about certain issues.

>

> As you may recall, and as I asked in my last email, if you got

the Bach

> remedies I recommended to you for the type of anxiety you are

experiencing.

> You didn't respond to this.

>

>

> I hesitate to respond in depth because I've put so much into this

and

> answered most of these questions repeatedly. It is draining to do

this with

> a person who doesn't at least save earlier responses. It's not

necessary

> for people to take my suggestions, but it is necessary for people

who don't

> to stop writing me with the same questions. We've gone over this

info for

> several months, Sally. I just can't keep doing it this way.

>

>

> I can't help but think you wouldn't be stuck where you are in

this had you

> acted quickly several months ago to mitigate it after you came here

seeking

> information. There are windows of opportunity that exist before

more damage

> sets in. You've gone on past these windows. Now, it is much more

> complicated. Complicated cases require complicated solutions and

sticking

> to the protocols that are the solutions. There's been no

indication that

> you would do that so there is no indication that I should put as

much time

> and energy into this as I have (I've been researching your neck

symptom in

> thr homeopathic literature and asked several homeopaths for their

thoughts

> on this).

>

>

> At this point, until you're really thinking you want to try the

things we

> talk about, I need to conserve my energy and spend my time in a more

> effective manner. I'm not at all suggesting you leave the

group. You're

> quite welcome here. You're also welcome to ask new questions.

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sally,

You said:

<<Im sorry for the problems I have caused.

I did respond to the bach message but it doesnt seem to have appeared.

The note said that yes I did get the Aspen and have been taking it

several times a day but havent been able to get the other one. I

will continue to try and get this. >>

** I'm sorry. It wasn't in the email that follwed up to my questions

(you answered about the neck stuff).

You said:

<<I have also been taking fresh squeezed lemon in water.

I have saved all your messages/ printed them off and have tried all

the suggestions you have made. One of the earliest pieces of advice

you gave me was to not try lots of different things in a desperate

bid to make things better- and I have tried to avoid doing this.

You suggested the aconite to me because my panic attacks have

always 'appeared out of nowhere'. They have been like that right

from the start. >>

** Did you get the Goatein?

This is my response to you on 2/26/04:

" For panic attacks that come from some thoughts or fears or being in a

situation that causes anxiety, a combination of Mimulus and Rock Rose is

most appropriate. The defining feature here is it is a response to

something not 'free-floating. "

** This was the one where I erred on the essences. But the last

sentence was in response to your answer to my question which tried to

understand the nature of the panic attacks. That is exactly why I came up

with the Bach essences for you. Aconite was not appropriate for what you

reported to me (the actual Bach's are Aspen, as you mentioned, and Star of

Bethlehem).

You said:

<<I asked the question again about the magnesium simply because I hadnt

been able to get the doses you had suggested so wanted to check I was

doing the right thing.>>

** Understandable.

You said:

<<Im afraid Im writing this note in tears. I have fought and fought

over the last 2 years to get off these drugs and your suggestion that

my lack of action has just made things worse is devastating. I have

been so dedicated to beat this for the sake of my children and I

genuinely did believe that I was following your advice.

When I wrote the note to you below I was totally and utterly

desperate and I'm sorry that there was some repetition but to be

honest I was finding it very very difficult to think straight and wa

just reaching out. >>

** I understand. It just seemed like we began this process several

months ago. At that time, I recommended a number of things. You returned

to the group after several months' absence and reported all you were doing

was fish oil. You lost several months' time in this case. So, we had to

begin again.

I poted my thoughts on St. 's Wort twice in response to you. Yet, the

question has come up again. People tend to do this when they have an idea

of the abnswer they want but haven't yet gotten.

I think you need to follw your intuition wherever that may lead you and

regardless of what I say.

You said:

<<I realise from what you've said that maybe my case is just too

complicated now and that there is little that can be done to help me.

I know that you dedicate a lot of time to this work and realise that

you need to concentrate your efforts and energies on people who may

actually eventually benefit and get better.>>

** There is a lot that can be done. You can become much better. But you

need a serious influx of nutrients. Do you really want me to take the time

to make the list again or do you really want to try the SJW route? Please

be honest here. It's okay to choose something else.

I just get frustrated when I know I've been down this road with people

before. The pattern is that they pick and choose what to do from what I

say, and then expect results. Times goes by, people become more depleted,

then they return with the same issues. At that point, I'm supposed to have

a magic remedy that will fix everything immediately.

The road to recovery is long and hard, as you know. The sooner people

act to support their bodies in healing the sooner they get a response.

People can see response in as little as 2 weeks with the vitamins and

minerals I recommend. Generally, these are people who acted early on in

their withdrawal. For others who have waited, it may take up to 2 months to

see a difference this way.

All I ask is that people are honest about their intentions to do something

or not and keep me informed about what they're taking.

I'm sorry this was so upsetting to you. I didn't mean it to be that

way. You are quite worn down. Right now, I think that any full out effort,

be it SJW and valium or the things I recommend, is necessary. It's

important for you to take some big action. It almost doesn't matter what it

is as long as it is action toward healing - big action.

Do you think your astrology stuff would be helpful to you at this time?

If so, I'll work on it over the next couple of days.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Dear - thankyou for your reply. After your earlier note I

looked through all my notes from you (I have them stuck with other

info re. alternatives in a book covered with pink sparkly paper - its

my book of hope.)

I dont want you to take any more time over my situation but as you

bothered to reply today then I thought i would just confirm my

thoughts and views on what Im hoping to do:

re. the Goatein - I tried a number of health food shops and none were

able to get it. However i did stop the noni juice.

In one note (I think it was 514) you mentioned trying something

called cytolopram but im afraid I dont know what this is so it isnt

something Ive followed up on.

So these are the things Im doing / have been doing/ planning:

*Increasing valium to (hopefully) max of 5mg per day to help get

through next few weeks.

*Reduce prozac liquid by 1mg a week (as I havent stabilised on prozac

I cant really do it on the basis of only reducing when i feel stable)

*carry on using bach remedies (have been taking daily for quite a

long time now)

*Carry on multivit/min

*Carry on lemon in water

*Continue the mag/calcium (only started this week)

*When (if)(no WHEN) reach 0mg prozac review and if still really

struggling look at taking Kira brand (standardised) of St s Wort

One of the main difficulties I have found over the last 2 plus years

of withdrawal is that not only are the symptoms far more severe than

my original illness but they also can chane dramatically from day to

day. This makes it all seem so much more frightening and leads to

frequent questioning and requestioning of what is really happening to

me.

re. the end of your note - sorry I dont anything about the astrology

stuff??

Best wishes

Sallyx

> Dear Sally,

>

>

> You said:

>

>

>

> <<Im sorry for the problems I have caused.

>

> I did respond to the bach message but it doesnt seem to have

appeared.

> The note said that yes I did get the Aspen and have been taking it

> several times a day but havent been able to get the other one. I

> will continue to try and get this. >>

>

>

> ** I'm sorry. It wasn't in the email that follwed up to my

questions

> (you answered about the neck stuff).

>

>

>

> You said:

>

>

> <<I have also been taking fresh squeezed lemon in water.

>

> I have saved all your messages/ printed them off and have tried all

> the suggestions you have made. One of the earliest pieces of advice

> you gave me was to not try lots of different things in a desperate

> bid to make things better- and I have tried to avoid doing this.

>

> You suggested the aconite to me because my panic attacks have

> always 'appeared out of nowhere'. They have been like that right

> from the start. >>

>

>

>

> ** Did you get the Goatein?

>

>

> This is my response to you on 2/26/04:

>

>

> " For panic attacks that come from some thoughts or fears or being

in a

> situation that causes anxiety, a combination of Mimulus and Rock

Rose is

> most appropriate. The defining feature here is it is a response to

> something not 'free-floating. "

>

>

>

> ** This was the one where I erred on the essences. But the

last

> sentence was in response to your answer to my question which tried

to

> understand the nature of the panic attacks. That is exactly why I

came up

> with the Bach essences for you. Aconite was not appropriate for

what you

> reported to me (the actual Bach's are Aspen, as you mentioned, and

Star of

> Bethlehem).

>

>

> You said:

>

> <<I asked the question again about the magnesium simply because I

hadnt

> been able to get the doses you had suggested so wanted to check I

was

> doing the right thing.>>

>

>

> ** Understandable.

>

>

> You said:

>

> <<Im afraid Im writing this note in tears. I have fought and fought

> over the last 2 years to get off these drugs and your suggestion

that

> my lack of action has just made things worse is devastating. I have

> been so dedicated to beat this for the sake of my children and I

> genuinely did believe that I was following your advice.

>

> When I wrote the note to you below I was totally and utterly

> desperate and I'm sorry that there was some repetition but to be

> honest I was finding it very very difficult to think straight and wa

> just reaching out. >>

>

>

> ** I understand. It just seemed like we began this process

several

> months ago. At that time, I recommended a number of things. You

returned

> to the group after several months' absence and reported all you

were doing

> was fish oil. You lost several months' time in this case. So, we

had to

> begin again.

>

> I poted my thoughts on St. 's Wort twice in response to you.

Yet, the

> question has come up again. People tend to do this when they have

an idea

> of the abnswer they want but haven't yet gotten.

>

>

> I think you need to follw your intuition wherever that may lead

you and

> regardless of what I say.

>

>

>

> You said:

>

> <<I realise from what you've said that maybe my case is just too

> complicated now and that there is little that can be done to help

me.

>

> I know that you dedicate a lot of time to this work and realise that

> you need to concentrate your efforts and energies on people who may

> actually eventually benefit and get better.>>

>

>

> ** There is a lot that can be done. You can become much

better. But you

> need a serious influx of nutrients. Do you really want me to take

the time

> to make the list again or do you really want to try the SJW route?

Please

> be honest here. It's okay to choose something else.

>

>

> I just get frustrated when I know I've been down this road with

people

> before. The pattern is that they pick and choose what to do from

what I

> say, and then expect results. Times goes by, people become more

depleted,

> then they return with the same issues. At that point, I'm supposed

to have

> a magic remedy that will fix everything immediately.

>

>

>

> The road to recovery is long and hard, as you know. The sooner

people

> act to support their bodies in healing the sooner they get a

response.

> People can see response in as little as 2 weeks with the vitamins

and

> minerals I recommend. Generally, these are people who acted early

on in

> their withdrawal. For others who have waited, it may take up to 2

months to

> see a difference this way.

>

>

> All I ask is that people are honest about their intentions to do

something

> or not and keep me informed about what they're taking.

>

>

> I'm sorry this was so upsetting to you. I didn't mean it to be

that

> way. You are quite worn down. Right now, I think that any full

out effort,

> be it SJW and valium or the things I recommend, is necessary. It's

> important for you to take some big action. It almost doesn't

matter what it

> is as long as it is action toward healing - big action.

>

>

> Do you think your astrology stuff would be helpful to you at this

time?

> If so, I'll work on it over the next couple of days.

>

> Regards,

>