Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Our new MD has my children on zinc carnosine for h pylori. We are to continue KPU and use the zinc carnosine as the zinc for the protocol. We are at 16 mg, which is a bit beyond I think lower end full dose for a child (9 and 12 both below 80 pounds). But I am not sure about this form and its bioavaliability. I understand it is good for IBS and hy pylori issues, but... Is anyone familiar with this form of zinc and the bioavailability compared to the picolinate, gluconate, sufate forms? How are you all dosing KPU supps? I understand many to most of you have practioners who use ART or some other form of energetic testing, but we do not have this available to us. This MD was concerned about the manganese stating that he has had to chelate some folks from manganese toxicity and it was not easy.. He's a pretty smart guy, so I am not sure where he is getting this from because I am not reading this is such an issue other than though inhalation or well water. We are at full adult dose for B6 and still very few dreams. ???? One child is NOS++, so I dont think the high doseing of the zinc is a great idea, though I am not seeing any negative effect that is obvious. I a halving the basic doses given by Dr K until we know what else to do. But no manganese at this point because MD did manage to frighten me. Esp because we do not have access to energetic testing, we are going to have to test.. any suggestions, experience on testing for children.. wanting to avoid the needle if we can since my son passes out. My son was highest. My daughter mild and my son moderate depending on measure you look at. http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walshMP.htm#Py With respect to reference levels: We consider a healthy level to be between 4-8 mcg/dL. We consider persons between 10 and 20 to have mild pyroluria, and a good response to treatment is usually reported. Persons exhibiting 20 to 50 mcg/dL have moderate pyroluria, which can be a devastating condition. Persons above 50 mcg/dL have severe pyroluria. I am also finding variences on zinc and B6 with several examples of exremely high B6/p5p. I am guessing because of this: http://pochoams.blogspot.com/2009/02/kryptopyrrole-hpu-hpl-porphyria-b6-zinc.htm\ l Because a deficit of vitamin B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosphate), reduces the absorption of zinc, chromium and -to a lesser degree- also manganese and magnesium, one could call it a deficit of only pyridoxal-5-phosphae. Vitamin B6 also plays a role in the production of vitamin B3 from trytophan. This vitamin is often decreased in HPU too. Also understanding that B6 creates quinolinc acid.. the Bb toxin.. add that to CBS/NOS + status.. and B6 is not so easy to supplement. Thank you. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Robin, Thank you for the links below. After revisiting Yasko's explanation for NOS mutation, I have reduced my son's intake of omega 3. I give him Evening Primrose Oil orally as well as using it to dilute essential oils for massaging him. We are overdue for EFAs analysis, tests. Can everyone recommend a lab or test method for this? My son was on 180 mg of zinc picolinate and 250 mg carnosine for about 3 months, and his expressive language finally developed with normalized pitch and intonation. 180 mg of zinc was quite high for a little guy of 55 pounds. But, prior to high zinc, he was almost non-verbal. His pronunciation and intonation were so off that I thought he was just saying gibberish and having verbal stimms. He was in fact trying to say something to me that I did not understand back then. Lately he also started to sing children's songs in Chinese which he acquired before age of 2 and lost around age of 3. He is 7 now and had pretty much been non-verbal for the past 3-4 years. I did observe signs of zinc toxicity. His lips were so cracked that they started bleeding on and off and never could be really healed. He also started showing white patches (discoloration) on his facial skin. The outcomes of copper deficiency can be manifested by changes in hair or skin color. Plus reading the discussion a while back on zinc dosage, I dropped down to 60 - 90 mg, but then he started mouthing objects big time like he did before high zinc. I think I need to at least go back up to 90 - 120 mg and observe. Mouthing objects can also be caused by iron deficiency. I started him on some iron and copper supplements derived from beets. Zinc competes with copper absorption; carnosine chelates copper. Sometime into KPU treatment protocol, there might be a need to run some lab tests to monitor copper levels, as copper is involved in the myelination of nerve fibers. Manganese activates the enzymes that are necessary for the proper use of biotin and a few other vitamin Bs. In my son's case, I don't care too much for supplementing manganese. There hasn't been any indication of manganese deficiency from urine, RBC, and hair. My son consumes a large amount of green leafy vege (in his green smoothies), which is a good source of manganese. The body requirement for manganese is fairly small. We do need to supplement with chromium due to the higher side of blood sugar. As for B3, we like NADH shots, a coenzymic form of nicotinamide critical for cellular energy production. It stimulates dopamine production as well. For P5P, my son is taking 50 mg at bedtime. It is hard to tell whether or not this is a good dosage for him given his genetics. We are testing for urine and plasma zinc, copper, amino acids, cbc, serum ferritin, and whole blood histoamine determination to see where my son is after 9-10 months into KPU treatment. Limin www.healthbylimin.com Young Living Distributor ID # 1111136 > Our new MD has my children on zinc carnosine for h pylori. We are to continue KPU and use the zinc carnosine as the zinc for the protocol. We are at 16 mg, which is a bit beyond I think lower end full dose for a child (9 and 12 both below 80 pounds). > > But I am not sure about this form and its bioavaliability. I understand it is good for IBS and hy pylori issues, but... > > Is anyone familiar with this form of zinc and the bioavailability compared to the picolinate, gluconate, sufate forms? > > How are you all dosing KPU supps? I understand many to most of you have practioners who use ART or some other form of energetic testing, but we do not have this available to us. > > This MD was concerned about the manganese stating that he has had to chelate some folks from manganese toxicity and it was not easy.. He's a pretty smart guy, so I am not sure where he is getting this from because I am not reading this is such an issue other than though inhalation or well water. > > We are at full adult dose for B6 and still very few dreams. ???? One child is NOS++, so I dont think the high doseing of the zinc is a great idea, though I am not seeing any negative effect that is obvious. > > I a halving the basic doses given by Dr K until we know what else to do. But no manganese at this point because MD did manage to frighten me. > > Esp because we do not have access to energetic testing, we are going to have to test.. any suggestions, experience on testing for children.. wanting to avoid the needle if we can since my son passes out. > > My son was highest. My daughter mild and my son moderate depending on measure you look at. > > > http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walshMP.htm#Py > > With respect to reference levels: We consider a healthy level to be between 4-8 mcg/dL. We consider persons between 10 and 20 to have mild pyroluria, and a good response to treatment is usually reported. Persons exhibiting 20 to 50 mcg/dL have moderate pyroluria, which can be a devastating condition. Persons above 50 mcg/dL have severe pyroluria. > > > I am also finding variences on zinc and B6 with several examples of exremely high B6/p5p. I am guessing because of this: > > http://pochoams.blogspot.com/2009/02/kryptopyrrole-hpu-hpl-porphyria-b6-zinc.htm\ l > > Because a deficit of vitamin B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosphate), reduces the absorption of zinc, chromium and -to a lesser degree- also manganese and magnesium, one could call it a deficit of only pyridoxal-5-phosphae. Vitamin B6 also plays a role in the production of vitamin B3 from trytophan. This vitamin is often decreased in HPU too. > > Also understanding that B6 creates quinolinc acid.. the Bb toxin.. add that to CBS/NOS + status.. and B6 is not so easy to supplement. > > Thank you. > > Robin > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thank you, Limin. It sounds like eventually we are going to have to have another blood draw. My son passed out with the first one and have avoided since. Any tips anyone has to offer will be much appreciated. I did read that levels can double to go ten fold (differing reports) between testing..these were people being monitored. I also read to up the zinc and B6 during stress. It sounds like the dosing has to be flexible for various reasons and I read several dosing schedules. One was 75 mg (adult) 2 breakfast, 1 lunch (25 mg).. also read up to over 100 but below 200. You are truly amazing. I am in awe of how much so many of you are able to process and manage mentally and personally. Robin > > > Our new MD has my children on zinc carnosine for h pylori. We are to continue KPU and use the zinc carnosine as the zinc for the protocol. We are at 16 mg, which is a bit beyond I think lower end full dose for a child (9 and 12 both below 80 pounds). > > > > But I am not sure about this form and its bioavaliability. I understand it is good for IBS and hy pylori issues, but... > > > > Is anyone familiar with this form of zinc and the bioavailability compared to the picolinate, gluconate, sufate forms? > > > > How are you all dosing KPU supps? I understand many to most of you have practioners who use ART or some other form of energetic testing, but we do not have this available to us. > > > > This MD was concerned about the manganese stating that he has had to chelate some folks from manganese toxicity and it was not easy.. He's a pretty smart guy, so I am not sure where he is getting this from because I am not reading this is such an issue other than though inhalation or well water. > > > > We are at full adult dose for B6 and still very few dreams. ???? One child is NOS++, so I dont think the high doseing of the zinc is a great idea, though I am not seeing any negative effect that is obvious. > > > > I a halving the basic doses given by Dr K until we know what else to do. But no manganese at this point because MD did manage to frighten me. > > > > Esp because we do not have access to energetic testing, we are going to have to test.. any suggestions, experience on testing for children.. wanting to avoid the needle if we can since my son passes out. > > > > My son was highest. My daughter mild and my son moderate depending on measure you look at. > > > > > > http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walshMP.htm#Py > > > > With respect to reference levels: We consider a healthy level to be between 4-8 mcg/dL. We consider persons between 10 and 20 to have mild pyroluria, and a good response to treatment is usually reported. Persons exhibiting 20 to 50 mcg/dL have moderate pyroluria, which can be a devastating condition. Persons above 50 mcg/dL have severe pyroluria. > > > > > > I am also finding variences on zinc and B6 with several examples of exremely high B6/p5p. I am guessing because of this: > > > > http://pochoams.blogspot.com/2009/02/kryptopyrrole-hpu-hpl-porphyria-b6-zinc.htm\ l > > > > Because a deficit of vitamin B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosphate), reduces the absorption of zinc, chromium and -to a lesser degree- also manganese and magnesium, one could call it a deficit of only pyridoxal-5-phosphae. Vitamin B6 also plays a role in the production of vitamin B3 from trytophan. This vitamin is often decreased in HPU too. > > > > Also understanding that B6 creates quinolinc acid.. the Bb toxin.. add that to CBS/NOS + status.. and B6 is not so easy to supplement. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Robin > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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