Re: What do you guys think? (very long)

[Guest guest]

Just a point of clarification: When I said pick a mentor, I meant

observe someone in your field of study or area that HAS managed to

make a life there -- and see how they did it. Someone YOU can

identify with and look to for guidance. I didn't mean mentors as

people who are thrust on you, selected for you, who may or may not

be a sane individual.

Otherwise, if everyone else is not a team player or a psycho, what

does that say about one's chosen field? It seems the system is

structured in such a way as to be hopeless. That would be

troublesome for me. I wouldn't want to toil in that environment --

for very long anyway.

The more I see about the field of academia -- there seems to be very

little upside from the picture painted here -- the more I question

why one would want to go into it. After the Ward Churchill incident

last year, academia has had a light shone upon it, and I'm watching

out for where my kids are going to college. I've gotten a few books

that take the lid off previously " revered " institutions and expose

the real agendas at work by the people you guys are describing.

They're getting exposed, slowly.

-Kyla

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi Vi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I wanted to say something about the work environment

> > > earlier

> > > > > but

> > > > > > didn't, so please forgive my tardy response. As I've

> > > mentioned

> > > > > > before, I'm in academia, which is one of the weirder

work

> > > > > > environments I know of since no one can get fired and

full

> > > > > > professors are supposed to get automatic respect just

> because

> > > of

> > > > > > what they have done and not how they act. You can

imagine

> > > what

> > > > > > strange power abuses can result in such a situation.

> > > > > Unfortunately

> > > > > > for me, I didn't play the game very well in graduate

> school

> > > and

> > > > > > managed to select an advisor who played the game

possibly

> even

> > > > > worse

> > > > > > than I did (she did not do sufficient work and I now

kind

> of

> > > think

> > > > > > of her as a 'fake,' someone who pretended to be much

more

> > > > > > accomplished than she was...it came back and bit her in

> the

> > > butt,

> > > > > > though, when she was rejected for tenure and has taken a

> job

> > > at a

> > > > > > much less prestigious place). To top it off, I butted

> heads

> > > with

> > > > > > some of the most abusive people in our system and got on

> at

> > > least

> > > > > > one bad side; this

> > > > > > > person then saw that I was not given advantages that

> other

> > > > > > students got. I would say about half of my time in

> graduate

> > > > > school

> > > > > > was detrimental for my career and that I did not play

the

> game

> > > > > well

> > > > > > at all.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For the second half, I got better for several

> reasons.

> > > First,

> > > > > I

> > > > > > tried to steer clear of the harmful faculty (my shrink

> even

> > > > > > suggested that I 'divorce' my advisor, which was good

> > > advice...we

> > > > > > now see each other only occasionally and I don't keep

her

> > > informed

> > > > > > about every little thing I'm doing). Second, I tried to

> find

> > > my

> > > > > > allies: people who respected me for the work that I do.

> That

> > > has

> > > > > > taken a while and I still get nervous when dealing with

> these

> > > > > > people, but after a few years I feel more confident that

I

> > > will

> > > > > not

> > > > > > get screwed over by them. Of course, I worked very hard

> for

> > > them

> > > > > > (but I did that for everyone along the way). Third, I

did

> do

> > > > > > some 'kissing ass,' but not in harmful ways. For

> instance, if

> > > one

> > > > > > of the administrators helped me with a problem, I would

> > > compliment

> > > > > > them. The compliments would be a bit overboard

> (like, 'You

> > > are

> > > > > the

> > > > > > greatest administrator ever!'), but were meant

sincerely.

> > > It's

> > > > > easy

> > > > > > to kiss up to faculty: you just have to ask how their

work

> is

> > > going

> > > > > > > and they will give you a half-hour uninterrupted

> lecture!

> > > But

> > > > > I

> > > > > > think there is something in making sure that you ask

> people

> > > about

> > > > > > how things are and demonstrating genuine interest.

Again,

> > > it's

> > > > > not

> > > > > > really kissing ass but it is going beyond what a lot of

> people

> > > > > > bother to do. The strategy worked very well and I think

I

> > > came

> > > > > out

> > > > > > of it better than I went in.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm still learning...now I am about to become the

> > > professor

> > > > > and

> > > > > > I can see for myself how I do!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and

> > > > > > > always stay connected to friends.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Man, I am sorry to hear that, is. Academia is its own little

strange world, isn't it? When I hear " bad academia time " , I get

sympathetic shivers...

Lots of the people I like in academia wouldn't be tolerated in any

other full time job because of their quirks, but they've turned those

aspects of themselves to the better. Which just gives me less

tolerance for the ones who've turned their quirks into hateful BS. I

see it done right, and have less patience when it's done wrong.

Meh. I could never be a professor. But it is interesting, and helps

with the BPD thing, I think, to see what sometimes amounts to a

personality-problem-zoo. >

Love,

Vi

>

> Hi Vi,

>

> There's a reason a lot of people go into academia...it's because

their behavior would not be tolerated in any other job...and then they

are supposed to be mentors? Sad but true.

>

> I'm having a bad academia time right now, so please forgive my

grimness. There are good aspects of it too. But some parts of the

job are enough to make you want to scream.

>

> is

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone

who knows.

> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Kyla,

Several good points, as usual!

" When I said pick a mentor, I meant observe someone in your field of

study or area that HAS managed to make a life there -- and see how

they did it. "

Definitely. And I knew I had to stick around in one place for a little

while, to meet and observe these people. Just because of all the

moving around (long story), and the way my eventual school was

pysically set up (a number of far-flung buildings), that was more

difficult that it needed to be. Not to mention throwing study abroad

into the middle of that.

Now, of course, it's one heck of a lot easier--my major, minor, and

future grad program are all in one gorgeous building together. And

this past school year has seen much change for the better...

" Otherwise, if everyone else is not a team player or a psycho, what

does that say about one's chosen field? "

It said, to me anyway, that it was sick and sad (and I wasn't alone in

that opinion).

" It seems the system is structured in such a way as to be hopeless. "

It was.

" I wouldn't want to toil in that environment -- for very long anyway. "

You'd be right on. The reason it took so long for me to give it up had

to do with the fact that several city/school changes were involved,

and I tried to give each situation a due chance--to push aside any

knee-jerk reactions, adn see it clearly for what it was.

Unfortunately, when the smoke of settling in cleared, what I kept

seeing was just another sick situation. WTF.

During that time, I was struggling a lot with how a person should

decide what they ought to do, a moral question, and I gave myself time

to come to some solid conclusions. I'm glad I did, and didn't listen

to those who wanted me to " stop thinking so much " (I don't trust

people who tell me that--they always have turned out to be the ones

without good interests at heart).

But all this took awhile. Believe me, when I was physically grabbed in

public by a teacher, the decision was made. I gave up not only that

environment, but the pursuit that had led me, so far, into nothing but

toxic environments, for years. I'll still pursue my interests in that

area, just not academically.

" The more I see about the field of academia -- there seems to be very

> little upside from the picture painted here -- the more I question

> why one would want to go into it. "

Well, I need a graduate degree. After that, I'm hella gone.

" I'm watching out for where my kids are going to college. "

You definitely should. Especially female children--the wrong school

can decrease their self-esteem, at a time when they are most entitled

to be raising it.

" I've gotten a few books that take the lid off previously " revered "

institutions and expose the real agendas at work by the people you

guys are describing. "

What books? What agenda? I'd be interested to know. And I'd be

interested to see how it might overlap a bit with the focus of this

board, if ya know what I mean...

Sorry so long!

Vi

[Guest guest]

Then I'd say you're getting an excellent education -- and not just

in the buildings you walk into!

Congratulations on your academic and personal success! It appears

it's all coming together really nicely. I'm getting the picture

that you've done a lot of work on yourself and have gotten advanced

degrees at the same time. All while surviving taking some knocks

along the way.

I admire that -- I've always wanted to go that route, but never did

anything after graduating college -- never pursued it.

The two books I can remember now are " Brainwashed " by Ben Shapiro,

and " Freefall of the American Univeristy, by Jim Black. I

will tell you that they are written from a perspective of the morals

and political leanings of the professors in most colleges -- but

regardless of one's political pursuasion, the overriding theme (no

matter one's perspective, really) is that academia has a bullying

(for lack of a better term on the fly!) mentality at times -- and

the environment breeds a sense of superiority and unaccountability.

The things you and is have brought up seem to verify that these

people think they're untouchable -- have absolute power. (And you

know what they say about absolute power!)

So, I don't bring up these books for the political aspect, but the

overriding " we're untouchable " theme and what it seems to

breed.....they are a warning to families who have children about to

feed into the university system.

Feel free to contact me off-board if you want me to excerpt a little

for you.

A big thank you for patiently discussing this with me -- it's been

illuminating, and you've been very informative. And you're darn

right I'm watching out for my daughter. She is already coming home

with things her teachers have pushed toward the kids that we don't

agree with in our home. I can only imagine what lies ahead....

{big hugs}

Kyla

>

> Hey Kyla,

>

> Several good points, as usual!

>

>

> " When I said pick a mentor, I meant observe someone in your field

of

> study or area that HAS managed to make a life there -- and see how

> they did it. "

>

> Definitely. And I knew I had to stick around in one place for a

little

> while, to meet and observe these people. Just because of all the

> moving around (long story), and the way my eventual school was

> pysically set up (a number of far-flung buildings), that was more

> difficult that it needed to be. Not to mention throwing study

abroad

> into the middle of that.

>

> Now, of course, it's one heck of a lot easier--my major, minor, and

> future grad program are all in one gorgeous building together. And

> this past school year has seen much change for the better...

>

>

> " Otherwise, if everyone else is not a team player or a psycho, what

> does that say about one's chosen field? "

>

> It said, to me anyway, that it was sick and sad (and I wasn't

alone in

> that opinion).

>

> " It seems the system is structured in such a way as to be

hopeless. "

>

> It was.

>

> " I wouldn't want to toil in that environment -- for very long

anyway. "

>

> You'd be right on. The reason it took so long for me to give it up

had

> to do with the fact that several city/school changes were involved,

> and I tried to give each situation a due chance--to push aside any

> knee-jerk reactions, adn see it clearly for what it was.

> Unfortunately, when the smoke of settling in cleared, what I kept

> seeing was just another sick situation. WTF.

>

> During that time, I was struggling a lot with how a person should

> decide what they ought to do, a moral question, and I gave myself

time

> to come to some solid conclusions. I'm glad I did, and didn't

listen

> to those who wanted me to " stop thinking so much " (I don't trust

> people who tell me that--they always have turned out to be the ones

> without good interests at heart).

>

> But all this took awhile. Believe me, when I was physically

grabbed in

> public by a teacher, the decision was made. I gave up not only that

> environment, but the pursuit that had led me, so far, into nothing

but

> toxic environments, for years. I'll still pursue my interests in

that

> area, just not academically.

>

>

> " The more I see about the field of academia -- there seems to be

very

> > little upside from the picture painted here -- the more I

question

> > why one would want to go into it. "

>

> Well, I need a graduate degree. After that, I'm hella gone.

>

> " I'm watching out for where my kids are going to college. "

>

> You definitely should. Especially female children--the wrong school

> can decrease their self-esteem, at a time when they are most

entitled

> to be raising it.

>

>

> " I've gotten a few books that take the lid off previously " revered "

> institutions and expose the real agendas at work by the people you

> guys are describing. "

>

> What books? What agenda? I'd be interested to know. And I'd be

> interested to see how it might overlap a bit with the focus of this

> board, if ya know what I mean...

>

>

> Sorry so long!

>

> Vi

>

[Guest guest]

Kyla,

I just wanted to say one more thing about the college stuff, since I

get the feeling I did a bit of a threadjack with it.

The more I read about BPD/NPD, the more I can look back and see that

quite a number of teachers that I've had--not just in college, but

K-12 as well--surely had some sort of personality problem. I mean that

quite seriously. Teachers have definitely been a part of the problem

in my life. I know there are a lot of great teachers out there, I've

had plenty. But there are some incredibly messed up people

" instructing " our kids, and I can look back and see extreme BPD and

NPD behavior from a lot of them. I wonder if there is something about

the world of school, at all leverls, that draws these folks.

I mean absolutely no offense to any teachers here. I'm not trying to

generalize about teachers, but to look at the system in which they work.

Think about it--a relatively secure position with power over young

minds, herds of people to manipulate and sow aggravation and drama

into, a chance to lord it over small people with no real chance of

opposing you. What's not to love, for someone with these problems?

About politics--I've found it interesting how BPD/NPD seems to have no

political bias. I believe sane conservatives and sane liberals have a

lot more in common, than either do with the loud, histrionic,

self-absorbed members of either group. In some ways, colleges promote

the worst of liberalism and the worst of conservatism at the same

time, though opponents of either side can't see their own half of the

problem. I think it is because of, like we've talked about, the

tendency for the personalities that get most entrenched and start the

most shit, also being the ones with extreme views in general. I think

people need to be educated about all sides of issues, but you have to

look for that yourself in most universities, because you always seem

to be talking to a nutcase on one side, or a nutcase on the other. I'm

personally a liberal, but I can do without borderline liberals, thanks

very much!!

BTW--no advanced degrees yet, just the better part of two

undergraduate degrees (Art & English).

Love,

Vi

> >

> > Hey Kyla,

> >

> > Several good points, as usual!

> >

> >

> > " When I said pick a mentor, I meant observe someone in your field

> of

> > study or area that HAS managed to make a life there -- and see how

> > they did it. "

> >

> > Definitely. And I knew I had to stick around in one place for a

> little

> > while, to meet and observe these people. Just because of all the

> > moving around (long story), and the way my eventual school was

> > pysically set up (a number of far-flung buildings), that was more

> > difficult that it needed to be. Not to mention throwing study

> abroad

> > into the middle of that.

> >

> > Now, of course, it's one heck of a lot easier--my major, minor, and

> > future grad program are all in one gorgeous building together. And

> > this past school year has seen much change for the better...

> >

> >

> > " Otherwise, if everyone else is not a team player or a psycho, what

> > does that say about one's chosen field? "

> >

> > It said, to me anyway, that it was sick and sad (and I wasn't

> alone in

> > that opinion).

> >

> > " It seems the system is structured in such a way as to be

> hopeless. "

> >

> > It was.

> >

> > " I wouldn't want to toil in that environment -- for very long

> anyway. "

> >

> > You'd be right on. The reason it took so long for me to give it up

> had

> > to do with the fact that several city/school changes were involved,

> > and I tried to give each situation a due chance--to push aside any

> > knee-jerk reactions, adn see it clearly for what it was.

> > Unfortunately, when the smoke of settling in cleared, what I kept

> > seeing was just another sick situation. WTF.

> >

> > During that time, I was struggling a lot with how a person should

> > decide what they ought to do, a moral question, and I gave myself

> time

> > to come to some solid conclusions. I'm glad I did, and didn't

> listen

> > to those who wanted me to " stop thinking so much " (I don't trust

> > people who tell me that--they always have turned out to be the ones

> > without good interests at heart).

> >

> > But all this took awhile. Believe me, when I was physically

> grabbed in

> > public by a teacher, the decision was made. I gave up not only that

> > environment, but the pursuit that had led me, so far, into nothing

> but

> > toxic environments, for years. I'll still pursue my interests in

> that

> > area, just not academically.

> >

> >

> > " The more I see about the field of academia -- there seems to be

> very

> > > little upside from the picture painted here -- the more I

> question

> > > why one would want to go into it. "

> >

> > Well, I need a graduate degree. After that, I'm hella gone.

> >

> > " I'm watching out for where my kids are going to college. "

> >

> > You definitely should. Especially female children--the wrong school

> > can decrease their self-esteem, at a time when they are most

> entitled

> > to be raising it.

> >

> >

> > " I've gotten a few books that take the lid off previously " revered "

> > institutions and expose the real agendas at work by the people you

> > guys are describing. "

> >

> > What books? What agenda? I'd be interested to know. And I'd be

> > interested to see how it might overlap a bit with the focus of this

> > board, if ya know what I mean...

> >

> >

> > Sorry so long!

> >

> > Vi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I heard a great preacher once talk about being " judgemental " (which nada often

accuses me of being). He said (I wrote it down), " Let's be clear. The Bible

says not to judge. To judge someone means to determine whether they will spend

eternity in Heaven or Hell. We can't do that because we don't know all the

facts like God does. HOWEVER. There is nothing wrong with being a " Fruit

Inspector " A person's life bears fruit. Godd fruit or bad fruit. There is

nothing wrong with saying, " That apple has worms. I don't believe I want any. "

And walking away. " Deanna, it sounds like your friend has a few worms in the

apple. It's up to you to decide if you like bad fruit or not. -Leslye

kylaboo728 wrote: << " A friend of mine thinks I

am being judgmental of her. " >>

In my opinion, " judgemental " has been painted with this broad brush

as being " bad " . I wouldn't blithely just accept everything under

the sun for fear of being labeled " judgemental " by someone. I draw

the line at adultery. (among other things!)

It's not bad to discern whether or not you want to spend your

valuable time with someone whose behavior you find abhorrent to your

own values.

That's not being " judgemental " -- that's discerning whether or not

they're people you want to spend time with.

There's a difference. If someone was a serial adulterer, or a meth

addict, or you name the behavior -- I might try to help if they're a

close friend, but if they're determined to live that lifestyle, I'm

taking my option to distance myself.

If the popular culture wants to brand me " judgemental " -- I could

care less. I've taught my kids this, too. If they see behaviors in

friends that they know they shouldn't be associated with, get away

from them. If you want to help, you can help from a distance,

enlist your parents. One is not required to be friends with someone

simply on the fear of being labeled judgemental. We have the right

to judge with whom and where we'll spend our time, based on people's

behaviors.

Oh, and that family sounds like they're all about appearances.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Hey! I just realized that part of my problem is that I feel I

> > have to

> > > " stuff " my feeling with her, like with nada. I know I can

never

> > say

> > > to her " I think there's no excuse for having an affair. I

thought

> > you

> > > had more integrity than that. " Or am I just a jackass for

> > thinking that?

> > >

> >

>

---------------------------------

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time

with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

" A person's life bears fruit. Godd fruit or bad fruit... " Ahhh- this should

read " Good fruit or bad fruit " Computer's a bit dyslexic this morning. Sorry!

-Leslye

L Kay wrote: I heard a great preacher once talk

about being " judgemental " (which nada often accuses me of being). He said (I

wrote it down), " Let's be clear. The Bible says not to judge. To judge someone

means to determine whether they will spend eternity in Heaven or Hell. We can't

do that because we don't know all the facts like God does. HOWEVER. There is

nothing wrong with being a " Fruit Inspector " A person's life bears fruit. Godd

fruit or bad fruit. There is nothing wrong with saying, " That apple has worms. I

don't believe I want any. " And walking away. " Deanna, it sounds like your friend

has a few worms in the apple. It's up to you to decide if you like bad fruit or

not. -Leslye

kylaboo728 wrote: << " A friend of mine thinks I am being

judgmental of her. " >>

In my opinion, " judgemental " has been painted with this broad brush

as being " bad " . I wouldn't blithely just accept everything under

the sun for fear of being labeled " judgemental " by someone. I draw

the line at adultery. (among other things!)

It's not bad to discern whether or not you want to spend your

valuable time with someone whose behavior you find abhorrent to your

own values.

That's not being " judgemental " -- that's discerning whether or not

they're people you want to spend time with.

There's a difference. If someone was a serial adulterer, or a meth

addict, or you name the behavior -- I might try to help if they're a

close friend, but if they're determined to live that lifestyle, I'm

taking my option to distance myself.

If the popular culture wants to brand me " judgemental " -- I could

care less. I've taught my kids this, too. If they see behaviors in

friends that they know they shouldn't be associated with, get away

from them. If you want to help, you can help from a distance,

enlist your parents. One is not required to be friends with someone

simply on the fear of being labeled judgemental. We have the right

to judge with whom and where we'll spend our time, based on people's

behaviors.

Oh, and that family sounds like they're all about appearances.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Hey! I just realized that part of my problem is that I feel I

> > have to

> > > " stuff " my feeling with her, like with nada. I know I can

never

> > say

> > > to her " I think there's no excuse for having an affair. I

thought

> > you

> > > had more integrity than that. " Or am I just a jackass for

> > thinking that?

> > >

> >

>

---------------------------------

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time

with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Brilliant!! A " fruit inspector " !! I love that analogy -- my kids

can understand that, too.

Thanks,

Kyla

> > > >

> > > > Hey! I just realized that part of my problem is that I feel

I

> > > have to

> > > > " stuff " my feeling with her, like with nada. I know I can

> never

> > > say

> > > > to her " I think there's no excuse for having an affair. I

> thought

> > > you

> > > > had more integrity than that. " Or am I just a jackass for

> > > thinking that?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time

> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

>

>