Guest guest Posted June 1, 2000 Report Share Posted June 1, 2000 , the only way to prevent this being a " race " issue is that all suspect descriptions include race. We always tell the race, white, black, oriential and such. this way you are not singling out any one particular race. Or is he taking offense to the word black? Does he feel it should be aired as African-American? If so, your defense is the FBI and NCIC codes for race.. these are what you need to enter records and are the same codes used across the country. As for sensitivity training -- it's maditory by our city that every two years all employees must attend sexual harassment and ethnic diversity training. In the past these have been put on by the state EEOC and the instructor we've been using has recently been in the news because of Sexual Harassment!!!! Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2000 Report Share Posted June 1, 2000 I have had this discussion many times with people I work with. My big question is this - Do you transmit only black male when it is appropriate, or do you transmit white male when it is appropriate? These questions have come up here in Vermont (demographically the whitest state in the nation). When we started having more people of color move into the area, there was some concern about us transmitting " black male " . For a long time, the department that I previously worked for had only one officer of color. This was discussed with him at length. His feeling (mine too) is that anything that narrows the field of possible suspects is important and should be aired. If we transmit a lookout for a male with a large scar on his forehead, are we discriminating against all males with scars on their foreheads? No, we are giving appropriate descriptive information. As we started having a larger population of people of color, and " white " was not necessarily assumed anymore, we started airing " White male " as much as " Black male " . I think people were more comfortable once this started, as it does away with the perception that " black male " is the exception. By the way, I guess I'm discriminating, since I used " male " in all my examples.... Sorry! Kristy Oxholm U of VT Police Services ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2000 Report Share Posted June 1, 2000 Good job giving instructions to save a life. in our city we don't give medical advice yet but I heard that will change soon. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2000 Report Share Posted June 1, 2000 > > I have had to go to a sensitivity training today because a new officer of > color, objected to us giving out descriptions of suspect or whatever as a > B/M. He felt this is discrimination and we should only give it out as male. > The majority of the officers feel that this is vital part of the description > of an individual. The lawyer that taught the sensitivity training is > looking into this to see if it could be discrimination. We had officers of > color in the class who were wondering if someone new could challenge the > current system that we (I believe) all use. Has anyone else run into a > situation like this? > > > NC... This is dispatcher 10 with the Abbeville County 911 center in SC. Our center uses bravo mike b/m to describe black males and whiskey mike to describe white males and w/f would be whiskey foxtrot and b/f would be described as bravo foxtrot. this may help your facility. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2000 Report Share Posted June 1, 2000 > I have had to go to a sensitivity training today because a new officer of > color, objected to us giving out descriptions of suspect or whatever as a > B/M. He felt this is discrimination ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is simply a descriptor, a fact, facts are not discriminatory. If this is the case any description of race or sex would be discriminatory. Maybe this new officer should learn a few things about the job before complaining. If the description is a b/m this eliminates all white males and all females, how he could get the idea that this is descrimination is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Christy, where in vermont r u I lived there for 20 yrs ago...........in Rutland and Barre......... moved to Florida in 1984, been in dispatch since 1990 lots more crime here, thats for sure Oxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 <A HREF= " http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?um:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/1999/6 /10/5.text.1 " >http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?um:pdi://oma.eop.gov.u s/1999/6/10/5.t</A> Hope all can access this site. In a nutshell, on Presidential Order, the President wants it documented reference RACE while on car stops. I will not attempt to explain this whole issue here. Just to let you know that maybe some sensitive officers will have to be able to article who they stopped, what race ...and why...Hope this helps all of you....From a Union person who scans the web.....;-) Cin in good ole Ohio Happy day, be safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Also...before I am remiss....let me add this is for Federal offices for now...but we all know where that leads too.......happy day Cin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Sounds to me like the wrong person in going to sensitivity training. Just my observation. I mean those are basic descriptors. How do you eliminate anyone based on " male " or " female " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 > To: " 911 " <911consoleegroups> > Importance: Normal > > Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:40:45 -0400 > Reply-to: 911consoleegroups > Subject: 911:: Sensitivity > I have had to go to a sensitivity training today because a new officer of > color, objected to us giving out descriptions of suspect or whatever as a > B/M. He felt this is discrimination and we should only give it out as male. ------------<snip-------------- Then using that thinking, we should not discriminate between automakers or paint makers and just refer to a stolen vehicle as a Pontiac, as color would not matter. B/M is not discriminatory. Neither is W/M------big snafu here....should have included B/F and W/F as well, sorry ladies! Nick Wagner Cortland Co. (NY) Sheriff's Dept E9-1-1 Center/Sr. Supervisor mailto:nwagner@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Screw the new guy, irregardless of his color. Nice rescue. Rich > *************************************************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 , I agree a bi-racial person should not have to decide which race they prefer more. I took applications for a child care program that was government funded and the same thing happened. It was silly to have a parent pick between when the child was both. I think agencys need to realize that people are bi-racial and they need to make sure they can say so and not chose between one or the other. I also think it is silly not to be able to say a discription of someone that incudes skin color. How are the officers going to find anyone with out it. Like you guys have said they can't just stop everyone. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 " I have had to go to a sensitivity training today because a new officer of color, objected to us giving out descriptions of suspect or whatever as a B/M. He felt this is discrimination and we should only give it out as male. " Patience is not one of my finer qualities. Let's carry this one step further. Hope no one is offended. Let's say the officer in question has a loved one who is brutally murdered and he is in the area looking for the suspect..would he like to hear.. " the suspect is a person (no gender or ethnic background indicated), no age (some people are touchy about that), no clothing desc (might offend a nudist), who left (don't want to offend bicycle riders, bus riders, ford/dodge/chevy owners). " Descriptors are only that, descriptors! And without them where would we be? Bob in Tacoma Some times I wonder what I thinking when I read what I wrote. oh yeah, and i'm still working on the cut/paste thing ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Unfortunately this is another example of what I have to believe is the substitution of a " cause " to hide a real, but secret agenda. It is really hard for me to understand how any field officer could object to having as much information as possible in the face of a situation that may require split second decisions under very trying circumstances. Further, can this officer really think this is a racist practice? why not eliminate gender too? Perhaps we should just ask the bad guys to hold up a hand and wave to the arriving units. I am sorry if I am being too cynical, but this really rubs me the wrong way. The safety of officers and the public, and maximizing the chance for an arrest is the goal, and this undermines both Here in NJ race as part of a description is SOP. The NJ State Police report the race of the driver and occupants for every traffic stop. Local departments always provide race over the air (black male, etc.) for the perp, and often for the complainant. This is also true for the NYPD. I guess however, the key is a uniform policy, report it for every dispatch. Some departments, like the Montgomery County, MD police dispatch using codes for race (i.e code 1 for black, code 2 for white). I am not sure what this euphemism accomplishes, perhaps soothes the sensitivities out in scanner land, but that seems a stretch. Are we so thin skinned that we have to make believe that code 1 somehow removes bias, but saying black does not? I hope the agency concerned does not sacrifice effective, and safe police work because of a misguided opinion. Thanks for the collective use of your eyes for this rant. We need a little balance and perspective out there. Monmouth County, NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Kathy I work at the University of California, Berkeley, where Asians are the majority. Let me break the news to you. The term Oriental is only acceptable as a type of food. People of Chinese ancestry object to Oriental as a race. The " newly acceptable, politically correct " version is Asian. Don't ask me to explain the difference between an Asian from Turkey and an Asian from Kowloon. And don't ask me to explain why, cause I don't know. My Asian American Fire Protection Engineer from Hong Kong, who doesn't give a crap what you call him, as long as its not late for dinner, warned me of this. Hope this saves you some future sensitivity class. Rich 1010WC dsptchmom@... wrote: > , the only way to prevent this being a " race " issue is that all suspect > descriptions include race. We always tell the race, white, black, oriential > and such. this way you are not singling out any one particular race. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 We also had that happen. We can no longer use Boy has phonetic for B, so it's now Baker. Personally, I think of male children when I hear that word but......who am I....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Annette, Good points. How far should it go back. And if someone is bi-racial that doesn't tell me what skin color they are. You'd still have to say black, white, Asian, or something like that. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Bob Lets go easy on the age stuff I drive through Tacina several times a year and I know where u work Course, I'm too old to do anything about it Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Well, I object to females being identified as females. So therefore everyone should be identified as humans. *tounge very much in cheek here* I liked Bob's example... " All units, assault just occured. Suspect on foot headed north on Main from Magnolia. No further description available due to department sensitivity policy. " All of you had excellent points. The federal government uses the term black, this is an acceptable term. You are describing fact. You are not making a judgement term, just describing people and narrowing the field of possiblities. The idea is to locate the suspect/victim/complainant. Who can object to that? Geez.... That commercial for that car buying thing on the internet is a good example. You know, the guy says he wants a car, so a bunch of cars show up around him. Then he says he wants a red one, all the other colors go away and only the red ones remain. Then he says less with than 35,000 miles and only one remains. Is this guy descriminating against all the blue ones? (Love it when he says he needs financing and a bunch of finance officers at the desk roll up) annette hallmark ahallmark@... <<snip>> I have had to go to a sensitivity training today because a new officer of color, objected to us giving out descriptions of suspect or whatever as a B/M. He felt this is discrimination and we should only give it out as male. The majority of the officers feel that this is vital part of the description of an individual. The lawyer that taught the sensitivity training is looking into this to see if it could be discrimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 And we wonder why we have a shortage of people not wanting to be Dispatchers? #1-GET A LIFE! #2-If a person is so sensitive about descriptions that have been around for the last 50 years, QUIT! Go live under a rock somewhere. #3-When do Dispatchers quit being human? All these rules and regulations in the Comm centers, PLEASE!, use some common sense. A-Uniforms (for those who dress their Dispatchers like Police it is a good way to get them killed) B-Television in Comm center (We need information, TV is a good information source, like breaking news that could affect your operations, severe weather, just to name a few) C-Eating and drinking (two basic needs of humans but we don't want Dispatchers doing it in certain centers at the console because they might spill something) ever heard of BOUNTY PAPER TOWELS!!! If your a supervisor on this list and you have any control at all over policy and procedure and dress code and who does what when and schedules, Please treat your Dispatchers with the upmost respect, give them what they need and want, make their environment as comfortable as possible, take away all the nit picking rule making finger pointing, restrictions etc. that hamper the operations of Communications Nation Wide.!!Thank you,,,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 In a message dated 6/1/00 9:51:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wpdkmo@... writes: << Do you transmit only black male when it is appropriate, or do you transmit white male when it is appropriate? >> --i transmit any and all descriptive info that i have at the time -- regardless of what may be presumed by the officers...--kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 This could get real sticky. When someone has just committed a crime and has left on foot, it is SOP at our department to give, Sex, race, clothing description, direction of travel and any other relative info. The officer can't stop every male walking southbound. If the description White/Male is given out, does your officer feel this is discriminating? Lyn magik@... 911:: Sensitivity > I have had to go to a sensitivity training today because a new officer of > color, objected to us giving out descriptions of suspect or whatever as a > B/M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Well... let me put this in black and white *Pun??? ;-)* Have you ever heard anyone complain when an APB is put out and they say W/M or W/F??? Nope!!! It is the standard... not a racially degrading practice. While I agree humans are humans... and race is no reason to decide on anything. When one is describing another... it is needed. I mean, you don't hear bald officers saying, " I don't have hair... don't say the color and legnth of perps hair!!! " C-ya Annette Hallmark wrote: > Well, I object to females being identified as females. So therefore > everyone should be identified as humans. *tounge very much in cheek here* > I liked Bob's example... > > " All units, assault just occured. Suspect on foot headed north on Main > from Magnolia. No further description available due to department > sensitivity policy. " > > All of you had excellent points. The federal government uses the term > black, this is an acceptable term. You are describing fact. You are not > making a judgement term, just describing people and narrowing the field of > possiblities. The idea is to locate the suspect/victim/complainant. Who > can object to that? > > Geez.... > > That commercial for that car buying thing on the internet is a good example. > You know, the guy says he wants a car, so a bunch of cars show up around > him. Then he says he wants a red one, all the other colors go away and only > the red ones remain. Then he says less with than 35,000 miles and only one > remains. Is this guy descriminating against all the blue ones? (Love it > when he says he needs financing and a bunch of finance officers at the desk > roll up) > > annette hallmark > ahallmark@... -- Barely there, Dave A. ----------------------------------| E-mail: todaresq@... | Web Site: http://www.pronetisp.net/~todaresq/ | ----------------------------------| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 Well, I have a question on this subject.... I'm not being insensitive but it is an interesting question, well, at least to me... Okay, if a person wants to be identified as bi-racial. How would that be done? Code it as bi-racial and leave it at that? Or would that person want each race identified? This could get complicated, you know. B/W B/H W/H H/A A/B A/I ... with a code for each. Also, what about children of a bi-racial parent? They could tri-racial, or quad-racial. How far back does the identification go? Points to ponder during you down times.... annette hallmark ahallmark@... <<snip>> , I agree a bi-racial person should not have to decide which race they prefer more. I took applications for a child care program that was government funded and the same thing happened. It was silly to have a parent pick between when the child was both. I think agencys need to realize that people are bi-racial and they need to make sure they can say so and not chose between one or the other. <<snip>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2000 Report Share Posted June 2, 2000 > To: <911consoleegroups> > Importance: Normal > > Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:48:10 -0500 > Reply-to: 911consoleegroups > Subject: RE: 911:: Sensitivity > Well, I have a question on this subject.... I'm not being insensitive but > it is an interesting question, well, at least to me... > > > Okay, if a person wants to be identified as bi-racial. How would that be > done? Code it as bi-racial and leave it at that? Or would that person want > each race identified? This could get complicated, you know. B/W B/H W/H > H/A A/B A/I ... with a code for each. > > Also, what about children of a bi-racial parent? They could tri-racial, or > quad-racial. How far back does the identification go? > > Points to ponder during you down times.... > > > annette hallmark > ahallmark@... > The original question and problem is " personal identifiers " . If you go beyond that, you are approaching a " sensitive " area, and the problem area of discussion. If the person is lighter or darker would be the criteria to be used in identification purposes. Go back to basics, don't forget the original purpose of the [thread] classification. Nick Wagner Cortland Co. (NY) Sheriff's Dept E9-1-1 Center/Sr. Supervisor mailto:nwagner@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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