Re: I need advice from the group - STAT!

June 22, 2006

Hi AC,

Wow, your nada certainly took some time in composing that email to

you - there's definitely an intent there. I don't know your

situation or what kind of boundaries you have going with her, but I

read her email to be an attempt at provoking you into responding. It

seemed very calculated towards something along those lines, anyway.

Usually when I want to fire off a retort to my nada, that's exactly

when I should sit back and wait. If she's trying to provoke you, the

last thing you want to do is give her the satisfaction of letting it

work.

Cool off a bit, then decide how (and even if) you want to respond.

You can't control what she's trying to prove with her ridiculous

note, but you CAN control how you react to it. She's asking you to

defend yourself, and you can decide if it's worth your time and

effort - especially since it's all in her head. Even if you do send

a reply, do it for you, and not in the hopes that it will change

anything.

BTW, that was definitely a nada email if I've ever read one! I'm

feeling provoked and I don't even know her... but it sounds very

much like something my nada would do, too.

>

> Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not in at

the

> moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

>

> Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> background - she has thought my whole life that I was talking bad

> about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for it.

> Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a fishing

> trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

>

> Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had it.

I'm

> sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my e-

mail?

> (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

>

> From NADA:

> " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for the

> sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go since the

> older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

>

> I also tried to call you, but no answer.

>

> I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being tossed

about

> by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes from,

> but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish. That's

> right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my in-

laws]

> are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water fish or

> concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws] are

even

> aware of this fact.

>

> Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to boot. "

But

> it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a rather

> curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it to do

> with thee? "

>

> First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

invited

> to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would seem a

> bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

>

> Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption warnings

coming

> out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat fish more

> than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a habit

> of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing takes

> on an even more distasteful thought.

>

> So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can find

> something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

>

> Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention, how will

> you know.

>

> Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday that now

> you want to study what you want to study and not what others want

> you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what? And,

> since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found this

> all very curious.

>

> Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> Love Mom "

>

> My proposed response:

>

> " Mom,

> Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get into a

> conversation with anyone and they are talking about something they

> enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I ever

> had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't) and

they

> ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether or not

> my family ever fished (because for someone who loves something

it's

> hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm supposed

> to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets back

to

> you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking to

Dad

> about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it. It

was

> given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in that

> moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he might

> like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a little

> weird it's because you have most people at church terrified of you

> and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be friendly

> with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal people

do)

> and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good

people

> who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when very

little

> meet with your approval.

>

> But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say bad

> things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A previously

> raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about friend

> of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe that

> she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after you

were

> upset over her comments and shared with me what she said, I'm

still

> not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors all

> kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things about

you

> to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's unmarried

> sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I invited her

> to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an invitation

to

> go out on any given night? We were just doing something nice.

You

> and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we have

> invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

>

> As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than just

> updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The

world

> is not against you. I am not against you.

>

> Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who called

> while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I

could

> do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when I

> answered. "

>

> What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there? I'm

> trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want to be

> overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

>

> ~AC~

>

June 22, 2006

Sherby,

Thanks! It helps knowing that you saw her e-mail as nada-like.

Being relatively new to finding out I've been in Oz for a very long

time - I still second guess my experiences. Having one more voice

tell me that it's not me helps SO MUCH.

Thanks, again.

As for sending my letter- I wanted it said because I don't want her

to think she can get away with accusing me of stuff all of the

time. Even last Christmas when she cornered me and yelled at me, I

just took it. I'm 30-something, married, and yet I was just this 7-

year old " deserving " the abuse all over again. I have stood up to

her only once and that was shortly before the wedding when I moved

home to save money while transitioning jobs, cities, etc. So - I

was wondering if there was anything untoward with my e-mail back to

her. I am afraid of the backlash it may provoke in her, but I'm

tired of being afraid. I am a woman. A beautiful confident woman

whose nada... well.... you get the picture. And dog gone it - I

thought things were looking friendlier after fada's day dinner with

them!

~AC~

> >

> > Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not in at

> the

> > moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

> >

> > Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> > background - she has thought my whole life that I was talking

bad

> > about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for

it.

> > Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a

fishing

> > trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

> >

> > Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had it.

> I'm

> > sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my e-

> mail?

> > (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

> >

> > From NADA:

> > " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for the

> > sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go since the

> > older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

> >

> > I also tried to call you, but no answer.

> >

> > I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being tossed

> about

> > by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes

from,

> > but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish. That's

> > right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my in-

> laws]

> > are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water fish

or

> > concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws] are

> even

> > aware of this fact.

> >

> > Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to boot. "

> But

> > it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a rather

> > curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it to do

> > with thee? "

> >

> > First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

> invited

> > to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would seem

a

> > bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

> >

> > Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption warnings

> coming

> > out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat fish

more

> > than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a

habit

> > of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing

takes

> > on an even more distasteful thought.

> >

> > So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can find

> > something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

> >

> > Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention, how

will

> > you know.

> >

> > Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday that

now

> > you want to study what you want to study and not what others

want

> > you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what?

And,

> > since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found

this

> > all very curious.

> >

> > Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> > Love Mom "

> >

> > My proposed response:

> >

> > " Mom,

> > Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> > no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get into

a

> > conversation with anyone and they are talking about something

they

> > enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I

ever

> > had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't) and

> they

> > ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether or

not

> > my family ever fished (because for someone who loves something

> it's

> > hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm

supposed

> > to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets

back

> to

> > you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking to

> Dad

> > about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it. It

> was

> > given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in that

> > moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he

might

> > like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a little

> > weird it's because you have most people at church terrified of

you

> > and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be friendly

> > with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal people

> do)

> > and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good

> people

> > who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when very

> little

> > meet with your approval.

> >

> > But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say bad

> > things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A

previously

> > raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> > supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about

friend

> > of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe

that

> > she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after you

> were

> > upset over her comments and shared with me what she said, I'm

> still

> > not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors

all

> > kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things about

> you

> > to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's unmarried

> > sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I invited

her

> > to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an invitation

> to

> > go out on any given night? We were just doing something nice.

> You

> > and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we

have

> > invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

> >

> > As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than just

> > updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The

> world

> > is not against you. I am not against you.

> >

> > Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who

called

> > while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I

> could

> > do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when I

> > answered. "

> >

> > What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there? I'm

> > trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want to

be

> > overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

> >

> > ~AC~

> >

>

June 22, 2006

Well, the letter I got from my mother is not even remotely similar,

but my suggestion is the same. Don't even respond.

This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with some battle

raging in her head. Why pollute your brain with it.

If you must respond, I'd keep it short and just say: I have not been

talking about you, but I have every right to talk about my life and

experiences, even if those things overlap with you. Your letter is

disrespectful to me and you clearly intend it to upset me, since no

reasonable person would be worried about a conversation regarding

fish. I will not fight with you over such petty things and I don't

want any further communications from you unless you can use a

respectful tone and get the paranoia under control.

June 22, 2006

Nevada -

In regard to your response letter - brilliantly said. I just may

plagarize it. Or at least send off something very similar.

Thank you!

I still thank GOD for all of you in this group! Thank you for your

advice and for sharing what I have held inside for a very long

time!! (And thank you for letting me know I'm not as much nuts as I

had felt!)

~AC~

>

> Well, the letter I got from my mother is not even remotely

similar,

> but my suggestion is the same. Don't even respond.

>

> This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with some

battle

> raging in her head. Why pollute your brain with it.

>

> If you must respond, I'd keep it short and just say: I have not

been

> talking about you, but I have every right to talk about my life

and

> experiences, even if those things overlap with you. Your letter

is

> disrespectful to me and you clearly intend it to upset me, since

no

> reasonable person would be worried about a conversation regarding

> fish. I will not fight with you over such petty things and I

don't

> want any further communications from you unless you can use a

> respectful tone and get the paranoia under control.

>

June 22, 2006

AC,

I haven't been responding to many emails lately, as I have been working

on some things for me, but I read a few this morning and saw your post.

I have a ubpd/apd momster and have been NC for 13 years. I also have

a diagnosed but won't accept it bipolar MIL who I do have to deal with,

who has many bpd type behaviors.

When I read your momsters email, my first thought was that she is

baiting you. She is putting you on the defensive so that you feel like

you have to argue every point, and pulling you back into what has

probably been a long time pattern. I have been dealing with something

similar with my MIL and thinking about it a lot lately. Have you sat

down and really thought about what you want out of this relationship,

and what you think is a realistic expectation? If you send your email,

I think you will be playing her game. If you don't respond she will

probably escalate, so you need to have a clear idea of what you will

and will not tolerate and stick to your boundaries. Otherwise if she

escalates and thinks she won, it will reenforce her behavior. I might

be inclined to respond like this (keep in mind that I don't know you,

your mother or much about your situation so I could be totally off

base):

Dear momster,

I received your email today. Your allegations are so off base that I

am not going to respond to them. I don't know what you are trying to

achieve with this letter, but I can't imagine anything productive

coming out of discussing it. I will no longer respond to accusations

such as these.

Then it depends on what your goal is. You could continue. " I am

writing this in hopes that we can change our relationship, as I don't

think it is working right now for either of us. I love you and want to

have the great relationship that every adult should have with their

parents. I hope you will receive this message with the love and

concern that I am sending it. "

Or if you are trying to create a little distance and set firm

boundaries: " I know I have responded to your allegations in the past

by defending myself, but no matter how many times I have done this, you

keep trying to put me on the defensive. I feel I have no choice but to

put my foot down. I am an adult, not a child, and do not owe you an

explanation for how I live my life. I have not in the past, nor will I

ever say or do things with the intent to hurt you. By trying to

appease you, I have allowed you to hurt me and interfere with my

relationships with my own family, inlaws and friends. I will no longer

allow you to do that. I hope we can build a new relationship that is

more appropriate for an adult daughter and mother. However if you

continue to treat me this way, I will have to limit your contact with

me and my family. I hope that I will not have to go that route, but

if you continue this behavior you will leave me no choice. "

This of course may lead to your having to go LC and maybe even NC if

she escalates, so make sure you are ready for that.

If you want to try to be nice, but say something similar, you could

always use the " shit sandwich " method - start with something nice, put

the crap in the middle and then end with something nice. But my

experience with MIL and my momster is that anything you say nice will

come back to bit you in the a$$. " You said you are grateful for all I

have done for you. Now look how you are treating your poor mother... "

I think the important thing is that you really think this thing through

before you make your decision and send or not send a response. If you

really want to break this cycle, you are going to have to respond

differently than you did in the past, and there will be repercussions

for that. You will be changing a very unhealthy dynamic and that tends

to bring out the " best " in disfunctional families, especially where

there is a bpd involved. You need to choose to do what is best for you

and your family (spouse/partner, children). And then you need to value

yourself enough to stick to your guns. Otherwise your mother will

probably escalate, you will eventually try to calm things down and she

will smell victory. Then next time when you try to set boundaries it

will be even harder.

Sorry for any typos, as I have a 3 year old helping me type today. I

am going through a similar boundary problem with my MIL and have been

thinking about this a lot lately. I'm glad you posted this, as it is

helpful to see how others are handling these type of issues.

Fresabird

> Sherby,

>

> Thanks! It helps knowing that you saw her e-mail as nada-like.

> Being relatively new to finding out I've been in Oz for a very long

> time - I still second guess my experiences. Having one more voice

> tell me that it's not me helps SO MUCH.

>

> Thanks, again.

>

> As for sending my letter- I wanted it said because I don't want her

> to think she can get away with accusing me of stuff all of the

> time. Even last Christmas when she cornered me and yelled at me, I

> just took it. I'm 30-something, married, and yet I was just this 7-

> year old " deserving " the abuse all over again. I have stood up to

> her only once and that was shortly before the wedding when I moved

> home to save money while transitioning jobs, cities, etc. So - I

> was wondering if there was anything untoward with my e-mail back to

> her. I am afraid of the backlash it may provoke in her, but I'm

> tired of being afraid. I am a woman. A beautiful confident woman

> whose nada... well.... you get the picture. And dog gone it - I

> thought things were looking friendlier after fada's day dinner with

> them!

>

> ~AC~

>

> > >

> > > Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not in at

> > the

> > > moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

> > >

> > > Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> > > background - she has thought my whole life that I was talking

> bad

> > > about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for

> it.

> > > Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a

> fishing

> > > trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

> > >

> > > Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had it.

> > I'm

> > > sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my e-

> > mail?

> > > (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

> > >

> > > From NADA:

> > > " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for the

> > > sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go since the

> > > older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

> > >

> > > I also tried to call you, but no answer.

> > >

> > > I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being tossed

> > about

> > > by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes

> from,

> > > but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish. That's

> > > right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my in-

> > laws]

> > > are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water fish

> or

> > > concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws] are

> > even

> > > aware of this fact.

> > >

> > > Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to boot. "

> > But

> > > it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a rather

> > > curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it to do

> > > with thee? "

> > >

> > > First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

> > invited

> > > to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would seem

> a

> > > bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

> > >

> > > Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption warnings

> > coming

> > > out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat fish

> more

> > > than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a

> habit

> > > of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing

> takes

> > > on an even more distasteful thought.

> > >

> > > So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can find

> > > something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

> > >

> > > Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention, how

> will

> > > you know.

> > >

> > > Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday that

> now

> > > you want to study what you want to study and not what others

> want

> > > you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what?

> And,

> > > since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found

> this

> > > all very curious.

> > >

> > > Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> > > Love Mom "

> > >

> > > My proposed response:

> > >

> > > " Mom,

> > > Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> > > no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get into

> a

> > > conversation with anyone and they are talking about something

> they

> > > enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I

> ever

> > > had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't) and

> > they

> > > ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether or

> not

> > > my family ever fished (because for someone who loves something

> > it's

> > > hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm

> supposed

> > > to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets

> back

> > to

> > > you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking to

> > Dad

> > > about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it. It

> > was

> > > given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in that

> > > moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he

> might

> > > like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a little

> > > weird it's because you have most people at church terrified of

> you

> > > and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be friendly

> > > with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal people

> > do)

> > > and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good

> > people

> > > who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when very

> > little

> > > meet with your approval.

> > >

> > > But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say bad

> > > things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A

> previously

> > > raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> > > supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about

> friend

> > > of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe

> that

> > > she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after you

> > were

> > > upset over her comments and shared with me what she said, I'm

> > still

> > > not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors

> all

> > > kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things about

> > you

> > > to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's unmarried

> > > sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I invited

> her

> > > to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an invitation

> > to

> > > go out on any given night? We were just doing something nice.

> > You

> > > and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we

> have

> > > invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

> > >

> > > As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than just

> > > updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The

> > world

> > > is not against you. I am not against you.

> > >

> > > Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who

> called

> > > while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I

> > could

> > > do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when I

> > > answered. "

> > >

> > > What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there? I'm

> > > trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want to

> be

> > > overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

> > >

> > > ~AC~

> > >

> >

>

June 22, 2006

Fresa,

Thank you for your insight and response suggestions. In all

honesty, actually responding will be something nada is not used to

as I usually just sit there and absorb everything as truth -

furthermore, silence seems to be an admission of guilt, anyway, so I

don't think response vs no-response will make much difference. The

only difference will be in how I respond. And you gave me several

options to consider.

I have experienced so many levels of emotion in just the last 2

hours since I received the e-mail and wrote my original post. Thank

you. I'm sorry that you have it coming and going (nada and MIL).

My MIL can be pretty needy sometimes, but can be reasoned and dealt

with and brought quickly back to sanity - so it's much more

manageable.

~AC~

> > > >

> > > > Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not

in at

> > > the

> > > > moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

> > > >

> > > > Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> > > > background - she has thought my whole life that I was

talking

> > bad

> > > > about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for

> > it.

> > > > Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a

> > fishing

> > > > trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

> > > >

> > > > Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had

it.

> > > I'm

> > > > sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my

e-

> > > mail?

> > > > (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

> > > >

> > > > From NADA:

> > > > " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for

the

> > > > sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go

since the

> > > > older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

> > > >

> > > > I also tried to call you, but no answer.

> > > >

> > > > I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being

tossed

> > > about

> > > > by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes

> > from,

> > > > but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish.

That's

> > > > right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my

in-

> > > laws]

> > > > are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water

fish

> > or

> > > > concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws]

are

> > > even

> > > > aware of this fact.

> > > >

> > > > Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to

boot. "

> > > But

> > > > it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a

rather

> > > > curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it

to do

> > > > with thee? "

> > > >

> > > > First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

> > > invited

> > > > to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would

seem

> > a

> > > > bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

> > > >

> > > > Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption

warnings

> > > coming

> > > > out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat

fish

> > more

> > > > than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a

> > habit

> > > > of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing

> > takes

> > > > on an even more distasteful thought.

> > > >

> > > > So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can

find

> > > > something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

> > > >

> > > > Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention,

how

> > will

> > > > you know.

> > > >

> > > > Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday

that

> > now

> > > > you want to study what you want to study and not what others

> > want

> > > > you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what?

> > And,

> > > > since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found

> > this

> > > > all very curious.

> > > >

> > > > Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> > > > Love Mom "

> > > >

> > > > My proposed response:

> > > >

> > > > " Mom,

> > > > Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> > > > no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get

into

> > a

> > > > conversation with anyone and they are talking about

something

> > they

> > > > enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I

> > ever

> > > > had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't)

and

> > > they

> > > > ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether

or

> > not

> > > > my family ever fished (because for someone who loves

something

> > > it's

> > > > hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm

> > supposed

> > > > to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets

> > back

> > > to

> > > > you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking

to

> > > Dad

> > > > about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it.

It

> > > was

> > > > given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in

that

> > > > moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he

> > might

> > > > like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a

little

> > > > weird it's because you have most people at church terrified

of

> > you

> > > > and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be

friendly

> > > > with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal

people

> > > do)

> > > > and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good

> > > people

> > > > who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when

very

> > > little

> > > > meet with your approval.

> > > >

> > > > But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say

bad

> > > > things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A

> > previously

> > > > raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> > > > supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about

> > friend

> > > > of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe

> > that

> > > > she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after

you

> > > were

> > > > upset over her comments and shared with me what she said,

I'm

> > > still

> > > > not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors

> > all

> > > > kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things

about

> > > you

> > > > to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's

unmarried

> > > > sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I

invited

> > her

> > > > to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an

invitation

> > > to

> > > > go out on any given night? We were just doing something

nice.

> > > You

> > > > and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we

> > have

> > > > invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

> > > >

> > > > As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than

just

> > > > updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The

> > > world

> > > > is not against you. I am not against you.

> > > >

> > > > Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who

> > called

> > > > while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I

> > > could

> > > > do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when

I

> > > > answered. "

> > > >

> > > > What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there?

I'm

> > > > trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want

to

> > be

> > > > overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

> > > >

> > > > ~AC~

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 22, 2006

Hi AC,

One of my favorite things about this list is that it's a place to

post nada nonsense - when I get an email like that from my nada and

I want to scream and cry, or throw up and crawl into bed, I can post

it here and someone can point and say, " See that? That's nada

nonsense! " I'm absolutely amazed how quickly that takes the power

away from junk emails like that! So I'm glad you posted your nada

junk so we could help you in that way .

And boy, do I know what you mean about being tired of being accused

all the time. I have tried to reply to my nada's accusations over

the years, and I've found that she never, ever listens to what I

have to say. For her, the reaction is what she's after, even if it's

an angry one (sometimes she WANTS an angry response, so she can go

tell all her friends what an abusive daughter I am). So most of the

time I just don't bother.

I read some of the other suggestions about responding to her, and I

also like the examples they gave - they're calling your nada out on

HER behavior towards YOU, which is really the issue here. You'd be

addressing what's really going on, instead of reacting to what she's

trying to provoke you with. That's definitely another very healthy

way to deal with this. So in answer to your question, there was

certainly nothing " untoward " about your response to her, but I think

that addressing the real issue, and not even bothering to answer her

demands directly, will go a long way in how you feel about your

response once you hit that Send button.

> > >

> > > Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not in

at

> > the

> > > moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

> > >

> > > Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> > > background - she has thought my whole life that I was talking

> bad

> > > about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for

> it.

> > > Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a

> fishing

> > > trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

> > >

> > > Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had

it.

> > I'm

> > > sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my e-

> > mail?

> > > (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

> > >

> > > From NADA:

> > > " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for

the

> > > sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go since

the

> > > older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

> > >

> > > I also tried to call you, but no answer.

> > >

> > > I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being tossed

> > about

> > > by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes

> from,

> > > but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish.

That's

> > > right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my in-

> > laws]

> > > are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water fish

> or

> > > concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws]

are

> > even

> > > aware of this fact.

> > >

> > > Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to

boot. "

> > But

> > > it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a rather

> > > curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it to

do

> > > with thee? "

> > >

> > > First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

> > invited

> > > to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would

seem

> a

> > > bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

> > >

> > > Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption warnings

> > coming

> > > out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat fish

> more

> > > than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a

> habit

> > > of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing

> takes

> > > on an even more distasteful thought.

> > >

> > > So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can

find

> > > something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

> > >

> > > Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention, how

> will

> > > you know.

> > >

> > > Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday that

> now

> > > you want to study what you want to study and not what others

> want

> > > you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what?

> And,

> > > since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found

> this

> > > all very curious.

> > >

> > > Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> > > Love Mom "

> > >

> > > My proposed response:

> > >

> > > " Mom,

> > > Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> > > no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get

into

> a

> > > conversation with anyone and they are talking about something

> they

> > > enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I

> ever

> > > had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't) and

> > they

> > > ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether or

> not

> > > my family ever fished (because for someone who loves something

> > it's

> > > hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm

> supposed

> > > to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets

> back

> > to

> > > you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking

to

> > Dad

> > > about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it.

It

> > was

> > > given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in that

> > > moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he

> might

> > > like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a

little

> > > weird it's because you have most people at church terrified of

> you

> > > and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be

friendly

> > > with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal

people

> > do)

> > > and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good

> > people

> > > who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when very

> > little

> > > meet with your approval.

> > >

> > > But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say

bad

> > > things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A

> previously

> > > raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> > > supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about

> friend

> > > of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe

> that

> > > she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after you

> > were

> > > upset over her comments and shared with me what she said, I'm

> > still

> > > not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors

> all

> > > kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things

about

> > you

> > > to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's

unmarried

> > > sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I invited

> her

> > > to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an

invitation

> > to

> > > go out on any given night? We were just doing something

nice.

> > You

> > > and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we

> have

> > > invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

> > >

> > > As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than

just

> > > updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The

> > world

> > > is not against you. I am not against you.

> > >

> > > Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who

> called

> > > while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I

> > could

> > > do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when I

> > > answered. "

> > >

> > > What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there?

I'm

> > > trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want to

> be

> > > overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

> > >

> > > ~AC~

> > >

> >

>

June 22, 2006

That's perfect, Nevada, short and to the point . If I ever feel

like responding to one of my nada's junk emails again, I'll have to

remember this.

Thanks!

>

> If you must respond, I'd keep it short and just say: I have not

been

> talking about you, but I have every right to talk about my life

and

> experiences, even if those things overlap with you. Your letter

is

> disrespectful to me and you clearly intend it to upset me, since

no

> reasonable person would be worried about a conversation regarding

> fish. I will not fight with you over such petty things and I

don't

> want any further communications from you unless you can use a

> respectful tone and get the paranoia under control.

>

June 22, 2006

AC,

I was the same way with momster - just didn't response. Her behavior

was different than your nada, but I would just take it. I stood up to

her once when I was 10, and while it stopped her from physically

hurting me, the emotional assault that it started was far more

damaging. I just dodged and weaved to avoid her until going completely

NC with a confrontation letter when I was 23. I've been lucky in not

dealing with her at all since then, though I do deal with the

repercussions of the abuse.

It has taken me 15 years to realize that the only way to deal with MIL

is to stand up for myself and push back hard. Giving in to anything

gives her the license to escalate behavior as she sees it as

affirmation of her " correctness " in manipulating and controlling all

those around her. She wrote me a " howler " in my mid twenties. My

husband confronted her, but I wasn't there and I'm sure it was in a

very subdued way, and probably involved some discussion of me being

" sensitive " . I really wish I had replied at that point and told her in

no uncertain terms that I wouldn't tolerate her behavior. I wasn't

ready then, but the consequences of taking 15 years to set up my

boundaries brick by brick is a MIL who thinks she has a license to walk

all over me, and won't stop ramming into the clearly visible wall. I

also have to deal with an IL family who thinks I will take it, and

should to keep the peace, just as they do. In hindsight it would have

been so much easier to set up a big brick wall right then. I almost

hope for another howler so I can finally respond as I wish I did all

those years ago. And now I am having to figure out how to protect my

children from her behavior.

I hope you find a way to respond that will break the pattern. I think

you have an opportunity here to really show her that you are a

different, stronger person than she thinks you are and that you are not

going to sit back and take it anymore. I think it could be very

powerful for you, as well as a turning point in your relationship with

your nada. How she will react? Who knows. My momster responded to my

letter by cutting me off. My MIL responds to my boundaries by banging

her head against them and pulling 2nd grade girl stuff when no one else

is looking - dirty looks, snide remarks etc. And she has pulled out

every manipulative tool she can get her hands on. The important thing

is that you do what you need to do for you, not respond because you are

trying to pacify/satisfy nada, as that is not an achievable goal. You

are worth standing up for. Give yourself the gift of managing your

relationship with nada in the best way for you. Put yourself first.

It's about time, don't you think? If that means pacifying/avoiding for

a while so you can work on you and get a game plan together, do it. If

that means taking a stand now, do that. Down deep you know what you

need. You just have to act on it.

Fresabird

> Fresa,

>

> Thank you for your insight and response suggestions. In all

> honesty, actually responding will be something nada is not used to

> as I usually just sit there and absorb everything as truth -

> furthermore, silence seems to be an admission of guilt, anyway, so I

> don't think response vs no-response will make much difference. The

> only difference will be in how I respond. And you gave me several

> options to consider.

>

> I have experienced so many levels of emotion in just the last 2

> hours since I received the e-mail and wrote my original post. Thank

> you. I'm sorry that you have it coming and going (nada and MIL).

> My MIL can be pretty needy sometimes, but can be reasoned and dealt

> with and brought quickly back to sanity - so it's much more

> manageable.

>

> ~AC~

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not

> in at

> > > > the

> > > > > moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> > > > > background - she has thought my whole life that I was

> talking

> > > bad

> > > > > about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for

> > > it.

> > > > > Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a

> > > fishing

> > > > > trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

> > > > >

> > > > > Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had

> it.

> > > > I'm

> > > > > sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my

> e-

> > > > mail?

> > > > > (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

> > > > >

> > > > > From NADA:

> > > > > " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for

> the

> > > > > sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go

> since the

> > > > > older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also tried to call you, but no answer.

> > > > >

> > > > > I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being

> tossed

> > > > about

> > > > > by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes

> > > from,

> > > > > but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish.

> That's

> > > > > right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my

> in-

> > > > laws]

> > > > > are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water

> fish

> > > or

> > > > > concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws]

> are

> > > > even

> > > > > aware of this fact.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to

> boot. "

> > > > But

> > > > > it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a

> rather

> > > > > curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it

> to do

> > > > > with thee? "

> > > > >

> > > > > First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

> > > > invited

> > > > > to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would

> seem

> > > a

> > > > > bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

> > > > >

> > > > > Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption

> warnings

> > > > coming

> > > > > out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat

> fish

> > > more

> > > > > than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a

> > > habit

> > > > > of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing

> > > takes

> > > > > on an even more distasteful thought.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can

> find

> > > > > something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention,

> how

> > > will

> > > > > you know.

> > > > >

> > > > > Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday

> that

> > > now

> > > > > you want to study what you want to study and not what others

> > > want

> > > > > you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what?

> > > And,

> > > > > since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found

> > > this

> > > > > all very curious.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> > > > > Love Mom "

> > > > >

> > > > > My proposed response:

> > > > >

> > > > > " Mom,

> > > > > Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> > > > > no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get

> into

> > > a

> > > > > conversation with anyone and they are talking about

> something

> > > they

> > > > > enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I

> > > ever

> > > > > had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't)

> and

> > > > they

> > > > > ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether

> or

> > > not

> > > > > my family ever fished (because for someone who loves

> something

> > > > it's

> > > > > hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm

> > > supposed

> > > > > to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets

> > > back

> > > > to

> > > > > you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking

> to

> > > > Dad

> > > > > about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it.

> It

> > > > was

> > > > > given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in

> that

> > > > > moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he

> > > might

> > > > > like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a

> little

> > > > > weird it's because you have most people at church terrified

> of

> > > you

> > > > > and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be

> friendly

> > > > > with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal

> people

> > > > do)

> > > > > and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good

> > > > people

> > > > > who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when

> very

> > > > little

> > > > > meet with your approval.

> > > > >

> > > > > But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say

> bad

> > > > > things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A

> > > previously

> > > > > raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> > > > > supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about

> > > friend

> > > > > of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe

> > > that

> > > > > she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after

> you

> > > > were

> > > > > upset over her comments and shared with me what she said,

> I'm

> > > > still

> > > > > not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors

> > > all

> > > > > kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things

> about

> > > > you

> > > > > to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's

> unmarried

> > > > > sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I

> invited

> > > her

> > > > > to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an

> invitation

> > > > to

> > > > > go out on any given night? We were just doing something

> nice.

> > > > You

> > > > > and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we

> > > have

> > > > > invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

> > > > >

> > > > > As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than

> just

> > > > > updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The

> > > > world

> > > > > is not against you. I am not against you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who

> > > called

> > > > > while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I

> > > > could

> > > > > do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when

> I

> > > > > answered. "

> > > > >

> > > > > What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there?

> I'm

> > > > > trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want

> to

> > > be

> > > > > overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

> > > > >

> > > > > ~AC~

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

June 22, 2006

AC,

Wow....i wish I could say that none of this sounds familiar...but sadly it

does....and what is about these mothers who can't just intelectually debate

one topic at a time...I mean, what's bothering you ma...is it the fact that

you couldn't reach me? is it the fact that i wasn't exactly WHERE you wanted

me to be, doing what you wanted me to do, and HOW you wanted me to do it?

Is it the imaginary gossip mill? is it the fish??....wait, wait...its the

mercury level in fish...nooo....it's the comment about you doing what you

want...because making that comment CLEARLY makes some sort of implication

about her parenting you.....maybe you just wanted an excuse to throw a bible

verse in there....because whoa....a bible verse....clearly, spiritually you

are superior to me. They can't even ask a question without laying out the

groundwork...making it clear where we stand. They are superior to us, hands

down. Perhaps they should get some sort of medal for sharing their air with

us. Anyway....I digress....here are my 2 cents.

Send the e-mail, don't send the e-mail...sadly I don't think you will see

any kind of change in her either way. When we speak they hear Charlie Brown

s teacher...wah, wah....wah, wah, wah. You need to do whatever helps you

sleep at night. Sending your e-mail...which by the way was accurate,

concise and factual. You approached each topic logically, intellectually

and with absolute merit. It was probably...no...certainly the very best

response you could have ever given. From the point of the class of KO's...

your grade would be an A+. As far as should you send it....well...i think

it NEEDS to be sent...and it needs to be read...and it needs to be

understood. Alas, the later of those three is most likely impossible. She

doesn't deserve the time you are spending reacting to this....no pun

intended...bait. But you do deserve it...you deserve that and more. I

react that way 100% of the time the way you did because writing helps. I

have written BOOKS and then burned them....it was therapudic to me. Therapy

is very subjective though....so for you, sending it to her may just help you

heal...which is what she needs....I think the most important part of her

entire letter was when she said: " As Christ said to " What does this

have to do with thee " ? (On a side note...she got that quote completley wrong

....I have a masters degree in religion so you can tell her that) This was a

most important part of her entire letter...in the situation in which Christ

was talking to , the entire subject had to do with his people, not

being compliant to the word of God. She sees herself as a type of God ..

and she is upset that you aren't her puppet. The paranoia is a flea of the

BPD......

Girlfriend...do what your heart tells you, and that which will help you heal

...we are here for you, of course. I would, at least keep a copy of this for

your therapist. It will help you heal immensly....he will get an inside

look at your immediate response when you were the most frustrated...and that

will help you heal. Remember, you don't owe her any explainations and she

is going to believe whatever she has convinced herself is factual...so don't

beat yourself up. My therapist told me to communicate with my nada in very

brief statements. Factual, 8 word statements no more than 1 minute face to

face.....6 sentences written ...get to the point,remain cold...yes or no

responses. You might be best saying....you wanted to talk to me...then talk

to me...everything you THINK is happening...this fish, the gossip...it has

nothing to do with me, so leave me out of it and believe what you want...you

wanted me to know, now I do, subject CLOSED. I love you, but do not bother

me with garbage like this ever again.

I hope this helps....and my prayers are with you my dear.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- I need advice from the group - STAT!

Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not in at the

moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

background - she has thought my whole life that I was talking bad

about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for it.

Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a fishing

trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had it. I'm

sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my e-mail?

(Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

From NADA:

" Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for the

sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go since the

older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

I also tried to call you, but no answer.

I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being tossed about

by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes from,

but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish. That's

right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my in-laws]

are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water fish or

concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws] are even

aware of this fact.

Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to boot. " But

it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a rather

curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it to do

with thee? "

First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever invited

to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would seem a

bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption warnings coming

out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat fish more

than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a habit

of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing takes

on an even more distasteful thought.

So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can find

something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention, how will

you know.

Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday that now

you want to study what you want to study and not what others want

you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what? And,

since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found this

all very curious.

Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

Love Mom "

My proposed response:

" Mom,

Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get into a

conversation with anyone and they are talking about something they

enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I ever

had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't) and they

ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether or not

my family ever fished (because for someone who loves something it's

hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm supposed

to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets back to

you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking to Dad

about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it. It was

given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in that

moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he might

like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a little

weird it's because you have most people at church terrified of you

and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be friendly

with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal people do)

and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good people

who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when very little

meet with your approval.

But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say bad

things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A previously

raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about friend

of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe that

she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after you were

upset over her comments and shared with me what she said, I'm still

not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors all

kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things about you

to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's unmarried

sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I invited her

to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an invitation to

go out on any given night? We were just doing something nice. You

and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we have

invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than just

updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The world

is not against you. I am not against you.

Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who called

while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I could

do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when I

answered. "

What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there? I'm

trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want to be

overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

~AC~

June 22, 2006

I say do what you can live with always, but you know in your heart

and in your head the response you will get. My advice is not to feed

into her frenzy. That is exactly what she wants. Than again wheather

or not you respond, will feed her frenzy, too. You can not win. It

is not possible to win with the BPD's of this world. Only lose.

I so much wanted to tell my sisters completely what I thought about

them and how I felt. It would do NO good. Contact of any kind only

gets me one thing in the end-HELL! I want to believe that there is

some kind of theropy that would make them better, but I do not

believe that for a second. This is only my opinion, but you can

medicate a schitzopranic, but never make them better. BPD is a form

of mental illness. For my survival I must have n/c. That doesn't

mean I don't love my sisters or pray to God for them to be better. I

just don't believe in my life time that will happen.

My nada is dead. Her reign of terror is over, but the after shock

will be felt a life time. Good Luck.

>

> AC,

>

> Wow....i wish I could say that none of this sounds familiar...but

sadly it

> does....and what is about these mothers who can't just

intelectually debate

> one topic at a time...I mean, what's bothering you ma...is it the

fact that

> you couldn't reach me? is it the fact that i wasn't exactly WHERE

you wanted

> me to be, doing what you wanted me to do, and HOW you wanted me to

do it?

> Is it the imaginary gossip mill? is it the fish??....wait,

wait...its the

> mercury level in fish...nooo....it's the comment about you doing

what you

> want...because making that comment CLEARLY makes some sort of

implication

> about her parenting you.....maybe you just wanted an excuse to

throw a bible

> verse in there....because whoa....a bible verse....clearly,

spiritually you

> are superior to me. They can't even ask a question without laying

out the

> groundwork...making it clear where we stand. They are superior to

us, hands

> down. Perhaps they should get some sort of medal for sharing

their air with

> us. Anyway....I digress....here are my 2 cents.

>

> Send the e-mail, don't send the e-mail...sadly I don't think you

will see

> any kind of change in her either way. When we speak they hear

Charlie Brown

> s teacher...wah, wah....wah, wah, wah. You need to do whatever

helps you

> sleep at night. Sending your e-mail...which by the way was

accurate,

> concise and factual. You approached each topic logically,

intellectually

> and with absolute merit. It was probably...no...certainly the

very best

> response you could have ever given. From the point of the class

of KO's...

> your grade would be an A+. As far as should you send

it....well...i think

> it NEEDS to be sent...and it needs to be read...and it needs to be

> understood. Alas, the later of those three is most likely

impossible. She

> doesn't deserve the time you are spending reacting to this....no

pun

> intended...bait. But you do deserve it...you deserve that and

more. I

> react that way 100% of the time the way you did because writing

helps. I

> have written BOOKS and then burned them....it was therapudic to

me. Therapy

> is very subjective though....so for you, sending it to her may

just help you

> heal...which is what she needs....I think the most important part

of her

> entire letter was when she said: " As Christ said to " What

does this

> have to do with thee " ? (On a side note...she got that quote

completley wrong

> ...I have a masters degree in religion so you can tell her that)

This was a

> most important part of her entire letter...in the situation in

which Christ

> was talking to , the entire subject had to do with his

people, not

> being compliant to the word of God. She sees herself as a type of

God ..

> and she is upset that you aren't her puppet. The paranoia is a

flea of the

> BPD......

>

> Girlfriend...do what your heart tells you, and that which will

help you heal

> ..we are here for you, of course. I would, at least keep a copy

of this for

> your therapist. It will help you heal immensly....he will get an

inside

> look at your immediate response when you were the most

frustrated...and that

> will help you heal. Remember, you don't owe her any explainations

and she

> is going to believe whatever she has convinced herself is

factual...so don't

> beat yourself up. My therapist told me to communicate with my nada

in very

> brief statements. Factual, 8 word statements no more than 1

minute face to

> face.....6 sentences written ...get to the point,remain cold...yes

or no

> responses. You might be best saying....you wanted to talk to

me...then talk

> to me...everything you THINK is happening...this fish, the

gossip...it has

> nothing to do with me, so leave me out of it and believe what you

want...you

> wanted me to know, now I do, subject CLOSED. I love you, but do

not bother

> me with garbage like this ever again.

>

> I hope this helps....and my prayers are with you my dear.

>

> Kisses and Nibbles,

> Bunny

>

> -- I need advice from the group - STAT!

>

> Okay - I work down the hall from my therapist and he's not in at

the

> moment. (No one around here knows that I see him, though...)

>

> Anyway - I just got the following e-mail from Nada: (As a

> background - she has thought my whole life that I was talking bad

> about her to the neighbors and was frequently in trouble for it.

> Also, recently my husband and I went with his family on a fishing

> trip. I am also signing up to take classes in the fall...)

>

> Below is her e-mail and what I intend to respond. I've had it. I'm

> sick of it... My question: send my e-mail or don't send my e-mail?

> (Personal indicators have been blanked out...)

>

> From NADA:

> " Where were you last night? I was doing Activity Night for the

> sunday school kids, but I guess you did not have to go since the

> older girls are at girls' camp. Lucky you.

>

> I also tried to call you, but no answer.

>

> I just thought I would clarify yet another rumor being tossed

about

> by the [church] lunatic fringe. I don't know where it comes from,

> but I can guess. Todays insane and inane topic is fish. That's

> right fish. Evidently the [my in-laws], or some of the [my in-laws]

> are either offended by the fact that we eschew warm water fish or

> concerned. I find it most concerning that the [my in-laws] are

even

> aware of this fact.

>

> Let me state " It is none of their business and stupid to boot. "

But

> it is an interesting new villification of Dad and I...a rather

> curious one as well. As Christ said to " What has it to do

> with thee? "

>

> First, maybe we would like [my husband's] fish, were we ever

invited

> to eat, but we have not been. (And at this point it would seem a

> bit contrived to be invited at this point.)

>

> Second, considering all the mercury fish consumption warnings

coming

> out of those areas (Don't worry, they just say don't eat fish more

> than once a week...still don't worry, but I would not make a habit

> of it) but considering those warnings, the whole fish thing takes

> on an even more distasteful thought.

>

> So, if whoever the little rumor-monger is, perhaps they can find

> something (like they already haven't) to villify us.

>

> Sorry, love, but if I don't bring this to your attention, how will

> you know.

>

> Second, just a curiosity, but you said to me last Sunday that now

> you want to study what you want to study and not what others want

> you to study. I am perplexed, who wanted you to study what? And,

> since when do you do anything you do not want to do? I found this

> all very curious.

>

> Well, have a good and hopefully mercury free day,

> Love Mom "

>

> My proposed response:

>

> " Mom,

> Seriously. Quit taking everything so personally. There is

> no " rumor mill " or anything like it. I guess if I ever get into a

> conversation with anyone and they are talking about something they

> enjoy (such as fish) and I mention that it isn't something I ever

> had unless you count fishsticks (which, fish-lovers don't) and

they

> ask in the most friendly and non-invasive way as to whether or not

> my family ever fished (because for someone who loves something

it's

> hard to believe that anyone WOULDN'T enjoy it) - then I'm supposed

> to stop all conversation there because heaven-forbid it gets back

to

> you????? I was there when [my brothers-in-law] were talking to Dad

> about it. There was nothing accusatory or gossipy about it. It was

> given in a friendly a way as possible. And they also, in that

> moment, said that he'd need to try [my husband's] because he might

> like it. An invitation was extended. And if they seem a little

> weird it's because you have most people at church terrified of you

> and they probably feel a bit bad for both wanting to be friendly

> with their brother's in-laws (because that's what normal people

do)

> and also fighting the intimidation they feel. They are good people

> who want to be good to you, but it's a little tough when very

little

> meet with your approval.

>

> But basically - I am not gossipping about you. I don't say bad

> things about you to ANYONE - not even [my husband]. [A previously

> raged-about person] doesn't hate you because of what I have

> supposedly said about you. [Another previously raged-about friend

> of mine] is not against you. While you would have me believe that

> she was stabbing me in the back last Christmas, even after you

were

> upset over her comments and shared with me what she said, I'm

still

> not sure what the problem was. I'm not telling the neighbors all

> kinds of bad things about you. I'm not saying bad things about you

> to my in-laws. And I don't think that [my aunt/nada's unmarried

> sister] was rubbing it in your face because [DH] and I invited her

> to go to a movie with us. How often does she have an invitation to

> go out on any given night? We were just doing something nice. You

> and dad have each other. However, I will remind you that we have

> invited the two of you to do things with us, too.

>

> As for the " study " comment - it wasn't anything other than just

> updating you on my life. Don't read so much into things. The world

> is not against you. I am not against you.

>

> Finally - I take it that you must have been the person who called

> while I was in the bathroom. I got to the phone as soon as I could

> do so decently, but whoever it was that called hung up when I

> answered. "

>

> What say the group? Am I nuts or just being driven there? I'm

> trying to jump out of this moving vehicle - but didn't want to be

> overly-hasty in sending out this e-mail.

>

> ~AC~

>

June 23, 2006