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It is so-so common to have these setbacks, I had many of them, and then

they just finally disappeared. Antibiotics could have triggered it, but it

could be coincidence, also.

Any environmental exposure could also put a toxic load on your system. I

would just work on cleaning your body by detoxing and allow it time to heal

again. You may experience several setbacks before you are completely back

to normal.

Lynda

At 04:19 PM 10/13/2005, you wrote:

>Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing great

>for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to normal.

>But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back. Today

>i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I dont

>know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

>antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a half

>ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive already

>stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

>before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

>suggestions?

>

>

>

>

>

>Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by

>licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

>health care professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

>Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live

>a happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

>two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

>

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I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they make me feel as

though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It disappears

within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

Kenda

> Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing great

> for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to normal.

> But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back. Today

> i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I dont

> know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a half

> ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive already

> stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> suggestions?

>

>

>

>

>

> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by licensed

> health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed health care

> professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a

> happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing, two-time

> Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

>

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I can't tell you if it had anything to do with your antibiotics or

not. I had to take some in my early recovery for H-Pylori and that

made me sicker than sick so it could be. I got better when I went off

them but it set me back for a long bit. I got through it though cause

I had no choice I had to kill the H-pylori ya know.

Anyhow your still so early in the recovery process. I know for me it

took awhile before I would even consider the word cured. I now am at

the piont where the whole illness is a blurr and almost seems like

another lifetime. Kind of like having natural childbirth or something

painful like that, you recall it but never as bad as it truly was.

That is how I remmber my implant illnes. Your young and your going to

recovery. Just give it time and when the bad times hit know that this

too shall pass!

hugs

In , " auw_bree " <auw_bree@y...> wrote:

>

> Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing great

> for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to normal.

> But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back. Today

> i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I dont

> know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a half

> ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive already

> stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> suggestions?

>

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Antibiotics kill off good organisms as well as bad. .

.. This can lead to systemic fungal (Candida) problems.

.. . Most of the women who come to the group have

systemic fungal problems. It's possible that implants

and antibiotics combined to make you feel so bad.

Hugs and prayers,

Rogene

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It can lead to c-difficile, also. This put me in the ER. I was deathly ill.

Never never never again.

>

> Antibiotics kill off good organisms as well as bad. .

> . This can lead to systemic fungal (Candida) problems.

> . . Most of the women who come to the group have

> systemic fungal problems. It's possible that implants

> and antibiotics combined to make you feel so bad.

>

> Hugs and prayers,

>

> Rogene

>

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Hi. There is a possibility that you are having a herx from the

antibiotics. I was on antibiotic therapy for 3 years for my

autoimmune symptoms. I was found to have mycoplasma and they are

often implicated in many autoimmune diseases such as lupus,

arthritis,

fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc. At any rate, many people who

take

antibiotics and have pathogens (known or unknown) that cause

problems

in their body will have a herxheimer when they take antibiotics. A

herxheimer is a " cleansing reaction " caused by the die off of

pathogens that the body hasn't mopped up yet. Antibiotics given for

acne are the same antibiotics (tetracycline, minocyline, etc) that

are used to treat autoimmune diseases so it is very likely that you

are having a herx from the antibiotics.

If your feeling worse is due to the antibiotics, that is actually a

good sign that your body is responding to them by killing off

pathogens that are causing symptoms in you.

Also it could just be one of the many steps backwards (and forwards)

that our body makes with trying to heal itself.

So please don't get upset. It is most likely a transitory condition

due to one of the above causes. You might even be herxing from some

other detox you are doing. We don't always herx right away.

When I took antibiotics, I had terrible herxes: extreme fatigue,

muscle and joint pain, headaches, etc. But it was worth it, because

I

got a lot better! I no longer take the antibiotic therapy and am

doing really pretty good right now!

Hugs, kathy

--- In , " auw_bree " <auw_bree@y...>

wrote:

>

> Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

great

> for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

normal.

> But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

Today

> i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

dont

> know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

half

> ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

already

> stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> suggestions?

>

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-

Kenda

I think you are herxing to the antibiotics. Many people with fms

actually are helped by antibiotic therapy. I am one of them!

Hugs, kathy

-- In , Kenda Skaggs <skaggs@c...>

wrote:

>

> I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they make me

feel as

> though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

disappears

> within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

>

> Kenda

>

>

> > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

great

> > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

normal.

> > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

Today

> > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

dont

> > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

half

> > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

already

> > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > suggestions?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

given by licensed

> > health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

health care

> > professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> >

> > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

mislead you.

> > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about

how to live a

> > happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

two-time

> > Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >

> >

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Hi Kathy,

I don't think it's a herx. There are several antibiotics that make me sick,

generally the very strong ones. Since I weight only 100 pounds, the usual

adult dosage is way too strong for me. Most doctors don't take my weight

into account, Dr. Leu does. Something isn't right when my husband, who

weighs nearly twice what I do, has the same dose of antibiotic that I do.

Kenda

> Kenda

> I think you are herxing to the antibiotics. Many people with fms

> actually are helped by antibiotic therapy. I am one of them!

> Hugs, kathy

>

>

>

>

> -- In , Kenda Skaggs <skaggs@c...>

> wrote:

>>

>> I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they make me

> feel as

>> though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

> disappears

>> within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

>>

>> Kenda

>>

>>

>>> Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> great

>>> for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> normal.

>>> But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> Today

>>> i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> dont

>>> know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

>>> antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> half

>>> ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> already

>>> stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

>>> before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

>>> suggestions?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

> given by licensed

>>> health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

> health care

>>> professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>>>

>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> mislead you.

>>> Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about

> how to live a

>>> happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

> two-time

>>> Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>>>

>>>

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I have to second 's opinion. Doxy is one of the antibiotics a

lot of people have a hard time taking because of all it's side

effects. Systemic antibiotics are now being limited, in some areas,

for use on only serious infections because their overuse has led to so

many resistant bacteria. This is why we are seeing so much

Methlicillin Resistant Staph Aureus, MRSA, out in the community. It

started out only being in hospitals, nursing homes, etc., but now is

becoming common place in the community with many people being carriers,

ones who carry the bug but aren't sick from it. It can't be proven

where I got MRSA, whether hospital or community, but I wouldn't have

gotten it at all if antibiotics weren't so over used/prescribed.

Ican't really say that for sure, but the bacteria wouldn't have been

able to mutate and become stronger than all the common antibiotics.

On the other problem, ProActiv is another excellent product line for

the treatment of acne. Good luck to you and hope you are feeling

better soon!

Cheryl

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Okay there is just something about the word 'herxing' I don't like.

I keep reading it as 'hexing'.

Shudder

> >

> > I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they make me

> feel as

> > though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

> disappears

> > within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

> >

> > Kenda

> >

> >

> > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> great

> > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> normal.

> > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> Today

> > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> dont

> > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> half

> > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> already

> > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > > suggestions?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

> given by licensed

> > > health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

> health care

> > > professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> > >

> > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> mislead you.

> > > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about

> how to live a

> > > happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

> two-time

> > > Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > >

> > >

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Quite a bit of difference in meaning, though. What could you substitute

for the word you do not like? Look up synonyms and see if you find one you

like.

Lynda

At 11:20 PM 10/15/2005, you wrote:

>Okay there is just something about the word 'herxing' I don't like.

>I keep reading it as 'hexing'.

>Shudder

>

>

> > >

> > > I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they make me

> > feel as

> > > though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

> > disappears

> > > within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

> > >

> > > Kenda

> > >

> > >

> > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> > great

> > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > normal.

> > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> > Today

> > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> > dont

> > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> > half

> > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> > already

> > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > > > suggestions?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

> > given by licensed

> > > > health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

> > health care

> > > > professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> > > >

> > > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> > mislead you.

> > > > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about

> > how to live a

> > > > happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

> > two-time

> > > > Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > > >

> > > >

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It is just my (sometimes) warped humor, Lynda....

> > > >

> > > > I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they make me

> > > feel as

> > > > though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

> > > disappears

> > > > within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

> > > >

> > > > Kenda

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> > > great

> > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > normal.

> > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> > > Today

> > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> > > dont

> > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> > > half

> > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> > > already

> > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > > > > suggestions?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

> > > given by licensed

> > > > > health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

> > > health care

> > > > > professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> > > > >

> > > > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> > > mislead you.

> > > > > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about

> > > how to live a

> > > > > happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

> > > two-time

> > > > > Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > > > >

> > > > >

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What does herxing mean, I've never heard that term.

Sis

> > > > >

> > > > > I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they

make me

> > > > feel as

> > > > > though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

> > > > disappears

> > > > > within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kenda

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was

doing

> > > > great

> > > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > > normal.

> > > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming

back.

> > > > Today

> > > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to

another. I

> > > > dont

> > > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad

experiences with

> > > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a

week and a

> > > > half

> > > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad.

Ive

> > > > already

> > > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the

way i was

> > > > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone

have any

> > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of

advice

> > > > given by licensed

> > > > > > health care professionals. Consult your physician or

licensed

> > > > health care

> > > > > > professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

politicians

> > > > mislead you.

> > > > > > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions

about

> > > > how to live a

> > > > > > happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus

ing,

> > > > two-time

> > > > > > Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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Herx is the term used for the bad way you feel because the body is ridding

itself of yeast and your symptoms get worse when that is happening. Maybe

someone else can do a better description. You simply feel crappy when you

first treat yeast.

Lynda

At 07:22 AM 10/16/2005, you wrote:

>What does herxing mean, I've never heard that term.

>

>Sis

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I react very strongly when I take most antibiotics, they

>make me

> > > > > feel as

> > > > > > though I have fibro -- my whole body is extremely achy. It

> > > > > disappears

> > > > > > within 24 hours after stopping the antibiotic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kenda

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was

>doing

> > > > > great

> > > > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > > > normal.

> > > > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming

>back.

> > > > > Today

> > > > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to

>another. I

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad

>experiences with

> > > > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a

>week and a

> > > > > half

> > > > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad.

>Ive

> > > > > already

> > > > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the

>way i was

> > > > > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone

>have any

> > > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of

>advice

> > > > > given by licensed

> > > > > > > health care professionals. Consult your physician or

>licensed

> > > > > health care

> > > > > > > professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

>politicians

> > > > > mislead you.

> > > > > > > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions

>about

> > > > > how to live a

> > > > > > > happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus

>ing,

> > > > > two-time

> > > > > > > Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

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--- Well most of my symptoms started after after i had surgery to

remove a kidney stone. I was very fatigued and short of breath and

had some brain fog but once i started taking doxy i started having

vision problems, aches more intense fatigue and brain fog. I didnt

contribute the worsening to the antibiotic though. How could a herx

from antibiotics be good if the antibiotics kill off the good and

the bad.

In , " mikat828 " <mikat828@y...> wrote:

>

> Hi. There is a possibility that you are having a herx from the

> antibiotics. I was on antibiotic therapy for 3 years for my

> autoimmune symptoms. I was found to have mycoplasma and they are

> often implicated in many autoimmune diseases such as lupus,

> arthritis,

> fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc. At any rate, many people who

> take

> antibiotics and have pathogens (known or unknown) that cause

> problems

> in their body will have a herxheimer when they take antibiotics.

A

> herxheimer is a " cleansing reaction " caused by the die off of

> pathogens that the body hasn't mopped up yet. Antibiotics given

for

> acne are the same antibiotics (tetracycline, minocyline, etc) that

> are used to treat autoimmune diseases so it is very likely that

you

> are having a herx from the antibiotics.

> If your feeling worse is due to the antibiotics, that is actually

a

> good sign that your body is responding to them by killing off

> pathogens that are causing symptoms in you.

> Also it could just be one of the many steps backwards (and

forwards)

> that our body makes with trying to heal itself.

> So please don't get upset. It is most likely a transitory

condition

> due to one of the above causes. You might even be herxing from

some

> other detox you are doing. We don't always herx right away.

> When I took antibiotics, I had terrible herxes: extreme fatigue,

> muscle and joint pain, headaches, etc. But it was worth it,

because

> I

> got a lot better! I no longer take the antibiotic therapy and am

> doing really pretty good right now!

> Hugs, kathy

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> great

> > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> normal.

> > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> Today

> > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> dont

> > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> half

> > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> already

> > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > suggestions?

> >

>

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Kathy,

What is mycoplasma and how did you know you have it?

I was dx wtih multiple autoimmune illnesses.

Why do you take antibiotics for autoimmune illness?

Sorry I have so many questions!

> > >

> > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> > great

> > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > normal.

> > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> > Today

> > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> > dont

> > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> > half

> > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> > already

> > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > > suggestions?

> > >

> >

>

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I just googled mycoplasma. WHy on earth do the neurologistsm, ENT and

rheumatolgoists

not mention this????

Argggggg

> > > >

> > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> > > great

> > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > normal.

> > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming back.

> > > Today

> > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another. I

> > > dont

> > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences with

> > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and a

> > > half

> > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> > > already

> > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i was

> > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have any

> > > > suggestions?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Mycoplasma

Mycoplasma is scary stuff! . . . My doctor told me

that she wasn't going to test me for it . . . and

that, if I did have it, she wouldn't manage my

treatment - extended antibiotics! Because of the

fungal/antibiotic issue, she wasn't comfortable

treating for it! Perhaps if she thought patients would

stay on a strict anti-fungal diet she would rethink

her position. We know how hard that is to do!

If you'll do a websearch for " Garth Nicolson

mycoplasma treatment " , you'll find Dr. Neicolson's

papers and the story behind mycoplasma. It's very sad!

Hugs,

Rogene

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Auw_bree,

Trying to control fungal problems while taking

antibiotics is a juggling act. You'll never " win "

while taking antibiotics. The best you can do is to

try to put good organisms back in your body faster

than they are getting killed off! . . . It's not easy!

One should be absolutely sure they really need to take

an antibiotic and not take them unnecessarily. But, if

you need them, you need them. You have to do the

damage control later.

Hugs,

Rogene

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Sis,

When you are trying to get rid of fungal-type

problems, or toxins that are deposited in any number

of locations in your body, you may experience what is

called a herx.

In the case fungal problems, when the organisms die

off, there is a toxic byproduct that will make you

feel worse, but only temporarily. The trick it to

learn the difference between a herx and being sick.

After you see the difference, you will begin to

appreciate the herxes because you will know that " you

needed that " and that, when it's over, you'll feel

better than you have in some time.

It's similar with toxins . . . For example, there are

B-B like things that can accumulate in ones feet that

are full of toxins. . . There is a name for them I

can't remember. . . If one of these were to burst

outside the body, the stench is incredible (I was

told). When I get a massage and the therapists breaks

these, I have a spacey, other-world feeling that may

last all day as my body flushes this gunk. You can

have a similar feeling when doing sweat therapies as

the toxins stored in the fatty tissues get stirred up,

ready for release.

That's why we suggest easing into these programs. You

don't want the herx to be so bad that you stop

detoxing. It's better to take it slow and keep it

tolerable than to quit detoxing altogether.

Does this help?

Hugs,

Rogene

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Hi molly

I just wrote a long reply and lost it before I could send it! That

is so maddening! I will try again. Dr. Mcpherson Brown first

discovered mycoplasma in the joint fluid of animals with arthritis.

When treated with tetracycline family of antibiotics, they killed

myco's and the arthritis got better. He worked with patients for

over twenty years and had success with RA, lupus and other

auotimmune conditions. Double blind studies have been done--

especially for RA and have shown some efficacy. Trouble is that

many doctors don't understand myco's or don't buy the theory. Or

they say they heard it doesn't work. Yet 67-85% of people on ap

(antibiotic protocol) get better. Many have to stay on the

antibiotics or the symptoms creep back in, and many have to tweak

their therapy after five or more years). This therapy however has

saved lives and I know of people dying from scleroderma who were

saved by this therapy. Their is a wellknown rheumatologist in

Boston that uses this therapy. I went to a doctor in Iowa to get

the therapy. Some mycoplasma are not implicated in disease, but at

least five are. I had two of them. Mycoplasma Fermantans is

thought to be the result of biowarfare engineering done to a more

harmless mycoplasma. I have that one. Many gulf war veterans have

that one also. For alot more info on this subject, there are two

websites that are notable for supporting the work of Dr. Brown.

They are www.roadback.org and www.rheumatic.org. If I had RA,

lupus, scleroderma, mctd (I had that), polymositis, fms, chronic

fatigue, and more and I wasn't getting better I would definitely

give this a try. Instead many doctors give their patients

methotrexate, imuran, remicade, and other serious immunesuppressing

drugs.

While on the ap it is important to take acidolphus, primal defense

etc. It is also important to control yeast through diet, etc. This

therapy has worked well for many people and the sites listed above

can give you much more detailed about how and why they work then I

can here.

Hugs, kathy

> > > > >

> > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was

doing

> > > > great

> > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > > normal.

> > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming

back.

> > > > Today

> > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to

another. I

> > > > dont

> > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences

with

> > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week

and a

> > > > half

> > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad.

Ive

> > > > already

> > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way

i was

> > > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone

have any

> > > > > suggestions?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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-

Hi. the herx from an antibiotic is good in the sense that it

confirms that the antibiotic is hitting its target--i.e. it is

killing off pathogens that are making you ill and the toxins from

the pathogens are making you feel worse until they can be

eliminated. Yes, antibiotics can kill off good bacteria in the gut,

that is why you need to be replacing them with good diet and taking

plenty of acidolpis and probiotics. For some people this is the

only way they have been able to regain their health from some

autoimmune diseases.

It is hard to tell a herx from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic

or even a side effect of an antibiotic. Ap doctors monitor their

patients and are supposed to be experienced in how to know. Some

blood tests help in this area. For instance wbc may go up in a

herx, but lower in a flare.

Obviously, if you can get better without antibiotics, that would be

preferable. But if you can't, they are a godsend, and the gut flora

can be replaced.

All I was pointing out is that your reaction to the doxy may have

well been a herx--thus confirming that you have pathogens in your

body making you ill. That is good info to know. Of course, there

are other ways to try to get rid of pathogens first. I would try

those over the ap therapy first. People seriously ill with lupus or

scleroderma don't have the time to try these things first. Ap

therapy is most likely to have the best impact and they can also do

all the adjunctive therapies such as detox, cleanses, and diet

changes, etc. Hope this clarifies what I was talking about

somewhat.

Hugs, kathy

-- In , " auw_bree " <auw_bree@y...>

wrote:

>

> --- Well most of my symptoms started after after i had surgery to

> remove a kidney stone. I was very fatigued and short of breath

and

> had some brain fog but once i started taking doxy i started having

> vision problems, aches more intense fatigue and brain fog. I

didnt

> contribute the worsening to the antibiotic though. How could a

herx

> from antibiotics be good if the antibiotics kill off the good and

> the bad.

>

>

>

> In , " mikat828 " <mikat828@y...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi. There is a possibility that you are having a herx from the

> > antibiotics. I was on antibiotic therapy for 3 years for my

> > autoimmune symptoms. I was found to have mycoplasma and they

are

> > often implicated in many autoimmune diseases such as lupus,

> > arthritis,

> > fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc. At any rate, many people

who

> > take

> > antibiotics and have pathogens (known or unknown) that cause

> > problems

> > in their body will have a herxheimer when they take

antibiotics.

> A

> > herxheimer is a " cleansing reaction " caused by the die off of

> > pathogens that the body hasn't mopped up yet. Antibiotics given

> for

> > acne are the same antibiotics (tetracycline, minocyline, etc)

that

> > are used to treat autoimmune diseases so it is very likely that

> you

> > are having a herx from the antibiotics.

> > If your feeling worse is due to the antibiotics, that is

actually

> a

> > good sign that your body is responding to them by killing off

> > pathogens that are causing symptoms in you.

> > Also it could just be one of the many steps backwards (and

> forwards)

> > that our body makes with trying to heal itself.

> > So please don't get upset. It is most likely a transitory

> condition

> > due to one of the above causes. You might even be herxing from

> some

> > other detox you are doing. We don't always herx right away.

> > When I took antibiotics, I had terrible herxes: extreme fatigue,

> > muscle and joint pain, headaches, etc. But it was worth it,

> because

> > I

> > got a lot better! I no longer take the antibiotic therapy and

am

> > doing really pretty good right now!

> > Hugs, kathy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was doing

> > great

> > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > normal.

> > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming

back.

> > Today

> > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to another.

I

> > dont

> > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences

with

> > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week and

a

> > half

> > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad. Ive

> > already

> > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way i

was

> > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone have

any

> > > suggestions?

> > >

> >

>

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Thank you Kathy,

I have been diagnosed with possible lupus (or mixed connective tissue disease) -

rheumy

now thinks the latter because of high RNP antibodies. IT seems every time I

have a blood

test the antibodies that were high are no longer, and new antibodies are high.

Sigh.

I have also been diagnosed with autoimmune thyroid disease (thyroid antibodies

high) and

a 'definite' diagnosis of multiple sclerosis. Oh, I forgot, there is also a dx

of fibromyalgia

but I guess my former rheumy didn't consider that worth mentioning since she

didn't - I

saw it later on my medical records.

One thing I would wonder -- there is much about the overruse of antibiotics and

strains

becoming resistant to them. Wouldn't this be a concern with an ongoing use of

antibiotic?

I will definitely ask my rheumy about this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was

> doing

> > > > > great

> > > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > > > normal.

> > > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming

> back.

> > > > > Today

> > > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to

> another. I

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences

> with

> > > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week

> and a

> > > > > half

> > > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad.

> Ive

> > > > > already

> > > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way

> i was

> > > > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone

> have any

> > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Kathy,

Also, thank you for taking the time to write this out, again! I know how

maddening

vanishing replies can be. ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i was

> doing

> > > > > great

> > > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally back to

> > > > > normal.

> > > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are coming

> back.

> > > > > Today

> > > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to

> another. I

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad experiences

> with

> > > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a week

> and a

> > > > > half

> > > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel bad.

> Ive

> > > > > already

> > > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the way

> i was

> > > > > > before, not after having these two good months. Anyone

> have any

> > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Molly

My opinion is that people who are validly taking antibiotics are not

increasing antibiotic resistance. It is people who take them for

viruses or when they don't feel good. It is most especially in my

opinion a problem that we eat animals every day that have been fed a

steady stream of antibiotics and drink milk from the same source.

When you have an autoimmune disease and it does not respond to other

forms of treatment--and by that I mean natural--I would never

consider taking autoimmune suppressing drugs--antibiotic therapy can

be a valid and lifesaving choice. If you are interested in the

antibiotic therapy, the best advice would be to go the roadback

foundation website. There are also books you can buy on the

antibiotic protocol. The website can help you find a dr. in your

area that works with them. As I stated before, many doctors either

don't know anything about it, or have heard someone say it doesn't

work. They often won't prescribe it. My regular internal medicine

guy was skeptical until I gave him the info. He was open enough to

look at it and then said he would prescribe the antibiotics so I

didnt' have to keep going to Iowa. Many rheumatologists are taught

only to prescribe painkillers and immunesuppressing drugs so I

wouldn't count on your rheumy having used it or having anything

positive to say. But then most doctors don't think saline implants

are a problem, and most laugh at detoxing the body or many of the

things we have done here to get well. The roadback foundation has a

large membership and is a great site for info and support.

MOst of the people doing the protocol are well aware of the need to

keep their bowel flora healthy. Their is also a site for people who

follow the Marshall Protocol. This was named after the man who

found that the antibiotic protocol would put sarcoidosis in

remission especially when first combined with a therapy that keeps

all forms of vitamin D away from the patient. It is a very involved

explanation as to why, but they also think they may have success

with this therapy with other autoimmune illnesses. Time will tell.

Anyway, suffice it to say that antibiotics do much more than people

realize. Like everything else, they have great potential to both

heal and harm. They have even found that doxycycline helps protect

the integrity of the middle lining of the heart. Apparently the

tetra family of antibiotics can affect collagen and they can also

have antimflammatory applications.

I think it is nice to know that if you are seriously ill with an

autoimmune condition, that this is one more weapon in our arsenal to

possibly overcome our diseases. As I said before it is much less

riskier than traditional drugs used by rheumatologists. Hope this

explanation helps, but the best info would come from the website

www.roadback.org.

Hugs, kathy

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ive been explanted for almost three months now and i

was

> > doing

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > for the last two months, almost like i was totally

back to

> > > > > > normal.

> > > > > > > But this last week i feel like my old symptoms are

coming

> > back.

> > > > > > Today

> > > > > > > i could barely breath just walking from one room to

> > another. I

> > > > > > dont

> > > > > > > know why it would regress. Has anyone had bad

experiences

> > with

> > > > > > > antibiotics, i started taking one for my acne about a

week

> > and a

> > > > > > half

> > > > > > > ago and im worried if that is whats making me feel

bad.

> > Ive

> > > > > > already

> > > > > > > stopped taking it but i cant imagine going back to the

way

> > i was

> > > > > > > before, not after having these two good months.

Anyone

> > have any

> > > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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