Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Posted February 22, 2006 I went to see Dr. Vliet in 2003 because of severe, chronic insomnia. After reading her book "Screaming..." I became convinced that low E was the cause. My previous doctor had insisted that blood levels of E not go above 100 and didn't check FSH.Vliet was expensive then but I see she is even more expensive now. I paid $2550 for the first visit. I see that now it is $3400. I was not disappointed with the first visit though. Before seeing Dr. Vliet, you see her nurse who does some tests and spends a lot of time with you going over stuff. Dr. Vliet spent an hour and a half with me and was very thorough. She was concerned that I hadn't been taking enough P because I hadn't had any periods. (The previous doctor had me taking P for only 7 days every 3 months and didn't seem concerned that I wasn't having periods.) She put me on a BCP with high progestin, called the Nuvaring and I had my first period in 8 years. She had me get an ultrasound when I got back to LA and although the endometrium was fine, a large mass was discovered and it appeared to be the ovary itself. So, I had an ovarian cancer scare and had to have surgery just to find out what the mass actually was. Vliet was very helpful throughout this ordeal and advised me on the pros and cons of having my uterus removed while the surgeon was in there anyway. She thought it would be a good idea and after the excruciating pain of the period I had just had, I didn't want to go through that again so had the hysterectomy. As it turns out the mass was a fibroid, not an ovarian tumor but the ovary had to come out because everything was stuck together. Vlet started me on oral E but I processed it so rapidly that I was having to take it every 4 hours around the clock to prevent hot flashes and I was taking way too much. Next she tried E injections, as they are supposed to be absorbed gradually. That didn't work either. Then she had me try the patch but that wasn't good either. My gynecologist told me about the Femring, which Vliet hadn't used yet because it was new but Vliet was fine with me trying it. Through experimentation, I found that I needed to use a .1 patch and change it every 2 days and I needed to use 2 Femrings at a time, inserting one on the 1st of the month and one on the 15th to keep the E levels high enough and steady enough. I also found that the Femrings only lasted me a month, not the 3 months the manufacturers claim. Vliet said this was common and advised that the patch be changed every 2 days, not 3 1/2 as the manufacturers recommended. After E levels were pretty good, Vliet put me on some oral T at a low dose. The only problem was that none of this helped my insomnia and after 10 years of it on a nightly basis, I was desperate. Vliet didn't really know what the cause of it would be if it wasn't insomnia. She advised me to go to a sleep lab and have a study done, which I did. The lab didn't know either and just said it was probably a "behavioral" problem! So, although I wasn't unhappy with Vliet, after six months I began to search for yet another doctor and found one locally that I wanted to try because he said he could handle the insomnia with low dose hydrocortisone to support the adrenals. I thought I could see both at the same time but the new doctor also wanted to tinker with my E, P and T and insisted that it was malpractice for me not to take P, whether I had a uterus or not. Vliet was adamant that I could only have one "hormone manager" and that if I insisted on seeing the other doctor, she would withdraw because she couldn't be effective if someone else was altering what she said. She also became angry that the other doctor was suggesting hydrocortisone and said I did not need it and it would hurt me. Because Vliet didn't have an answer for the insomnia and the new doctor said he did, I somewhat reluctantly let Dr. Vliet know that I would no longer be consulting her. In hindsight that was probably a bad move. I recently realized that the new (now old) doctor was a bit of a wild man when it came to monitoring hormone levels. He put me on T cream and looking back at my blood tests for about a year and a half with him, the T levels were WAY too high. I didn't realize it at the time. It was only when I lost about 75% of the hair on the top of my head that I twigged. This hair loss is more distressing to me than not sleeping. You girls that are going through it know what I mean. It's devastating emotionally to see yourself become one of those "balding old ladies". If I had stuck with Vliet, I would probably still have all my hair as she took a very measured, controlled approach to adding hormones. And, the insomnia is still not handled (the hydrocortisone didn't help and it was so difficult to wean off of it) and it appears that it may be due to heavy metal toxicity, not low hormones. That's the road I'm going down now. I hope this data is helpful, even though it's long. I liked Vliet and felt she really knew her stuff, even though her stuff was limited to certain hormone issues. Of course, maybe I felt that way because she projects an air of confidence and knowledge and makes her recommendations without hesitation. On the other hand, she thought "adrenal fatigue" was a scam and I don't think it is. What is the hair loss BHRT group that you're part of? Reply-To: rhythmicliving To: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you trust?Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:35:18 -0500>Hey ... would you mind sharing a little on your Vliet >experience? I post on another board with a women who is having >quite a time with her... not necessarily bad, we just can't connect >the book she wrote to her present advice... but then again, we're >not doctors with loads of clinical experience... ? :-)>>>>I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and >>hands so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in >>the bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I >>can't take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the >>fifth day - from digestive byproducts, I've read.>>>>I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of 10 >>but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting >>recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet >>that I no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. >>Maybe different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any >>case, during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and >>see what happens.>>>>BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it >>and it sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy >>called me to get my address, I had done my internet research and >>found this group and changed my mind.>>>>>>> >>Reply-To: rhythmicliving >>>To: rhythmicliving >>>Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you >>>trust?>>>Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST>>>>>>>>>>>>>almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day >>>>of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could >>>>even use the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my >>>>blood work, that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>I took oral P, 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt >>>>like crap too, dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, >>>>blocked all my E. PLEASE let us know about your urine test and >>>>how it compares. They do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, >>>>but I think the fat storage issue for P will still be there. I >>>>went thru this for 2 years during the WP phase of my >>>>life.....kindda why we on RL, are giving a heads up about the >>>>dangers of P build-up....some of us are still purging it.Be sure >>>>you keep your P on VERY THIN SKIN.....tops of feet ect.....some >>>>are finding vaginal application best. Keep up posted, thanks, >>>>)) >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/>>>>>>**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not >>>intended as medical advice.**>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Posted February 22, 2006 Thanks so much . It's a more balanced picture from someone who has been to her and not a second hand account like mine. The BHRT, with a hair emphasis, is growhair@ yahoogroups.com. Most of us are from hair site and powersurge. Again, thanks for your story. > I went to see Dr. Vliet in 2003 because of severe, chronic insomnia. > After reading her book " Screaming... " I became convinced that low E > was the cause. My previous doctor had insisted that blood levels of E > not go above 100 and didn't check FSH. > > Vliet was expensive then but I see she is even more expensive now. I > paid $2550 for the first visit. I see that now it is $3400. > > I was not disappointed with the first visit though. Before seeing Dr. > Vliet, you see her nurse who does some tests and spends a lot of time > with you going over stuff. Dr. Vliet spent an hour and a half with me > and was very thorough. > > She was concerned that I hadn't been taking enough P because I hadn't > had any periods. (The previous doctor had me taking P for only 7 days > every 3 months and didn't seem concerned that I wasn't having > periods.) She put me on a BCP with high progestin, called the > Nuvaring and I had my first period in 8 years. > > She had me get an ultrasound when I got back to LA and although the > endometrium was fine, a large mass was discovered and it appeared to > be the ovary itself. So, I had an ovarian cancer scare and had to > have surgery just to find out what the mass actually was. > > Vliet was very helpful throughout this ordeal and advised me on the > pros and cons of having my uterus removed while the surgeon was in > there anyway. She thought it would be a good idea and after the > excruciating pain of the period I had just had, I didn't want to go > through that again so had the hysterectomy. > > As it turns out the mass was a fibroid, not an ovarian tumor but the > ovary had to come out because everything was stuck together. > > Vlet started me on oral E but I processed it so rapidly that I was > having to take it every 4 hours around the clock to prevent hot > flashes and I was taking way too much. Next she tried E injections, > as they are supposed to be absorbed gradually. That didn't work > either. Then she had me try the patch but that wasn't good either. > > My gynecologist told me about the Femring, which Vliet hadn't used yet > because it was new but Vliet was fine with me trying it. Through > experimentation, I found that I needed to use a .1 patch and change it > every 2 days and I needed to use 2 Femrings at a time, inserting one > on the 1st of the month and one on the 15th to keep the E levels high > enough and steady enough. I also found that the Femrings only lasted > me a month, not the 3 months the manufacturers claim. Vliet said this > was common and advised that the patch be changed every 2 days, not 3 > 1/2 as the manufacturers recommended. > > After E levels were pretty good, Vliet put me on some oral T at a low > dose. > > The only problem was that none of this helped my insomnia and after 10 > years of it on a nightly basis, I was desperate. Vliet didn't really > know what the cause of it would be if it wasn't insomnia. She advised > me to go to a sleep lab and have a study done, which I did. The lab > didn't know either and just said it was probably a " behavioral " > problem! > > So, although I wasn't unhappy with Vliet, after six months I began to > search for yet another doctor and found one locally that I wanted to > try because he said he could handle the insomnia with low dose > hydrocortisone to support the adrenals. I thought I could see both at > the same time but the new doctor also wanted to tinker with my E, P > and T and  insisted that it was malpractice for me not to take P, > whether I had a uterus or not.  > > Vliet was adamant that I could only have one " hormone manager " and > that if I insisted on seeing the other doctor, she would withdraw > because she couldn't be effective if someone else was altering what > she said. She also became angry that the other doctor was suggesting > hydrocortisone and said I did not need it and it would hurt me. > > Because Vliet didn't have an answer for the insomnia and the new > doctor said he did, I somewhat reluctantly let Dr. Vliet know that I > would no longer be consulting her. > > In hindsight that was probably a bad move. I recently realized that > the new (now old) doctor was a bit of a wild man when it came to > monitoring hormone levels. He put me on T cream and looking back at > my blood tests for about a year and a half with him, the T levels > were WAY too high. I didn't realize it at the time. It was only when > I lost about 75% of the hair on the top of my head that I twigged. > > This hair loss is more distressing to me than not sleeping. You girls > that are going through it know what I mean. It's devastating > emotionally to see yourself become one of those " balding old ladies " . > > If I had stuck with Vliet, I would probably still have all my hair as > she took a very measured, controlled approach to adding hormones. > > And, the insomnia is still not handled (the hydrocortisone didn't help > and it was so difficult to wean off of it) and it appears that it may > be due to heavy metal toxicity, not low hormones. That's the road I'm > going down now. > > I hope this data is helpful, even though it's long. I liked Vliet and > felt she really knew her stuff, even though her stuff was limited > to certain hormone issues. Of course, maybe I felt that way because > she projects an air of confidence and knowledge and makes her > recommendations without hesitation. On the other hand, she thought > " adrenal fatigue " was a scam and I don't think it is. > > What is the hair loss BHRT group that you're part of? > > >> From:  Atlanta Girl >> Reply-To:  rhythmicliving >> To:  rhythmicliving >> Subject:  Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you >> trust? >> Date:  Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:35:18 -0500 >> >Hey ... would you mind sharing a little on your Vliet >> >experience?  I post on another board with a women who is having >> >quite a time with her... not necessarily bad, we just can't connect >> >the book she wrote to her present advice... but then again, we're >> >not doctors with loads of clinical experience... ? :-) >> > >> > >> >>I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and >> >>hands so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in >> >>the bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I >> >>can't take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the >> >>fifth day - from digestive byproducts, I've read. >> >> >> >>I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of 10 >> >>but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting >> >>recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet >> >>that I no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. >> >>Maybe different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any >> >>case, during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and >> >>see what happens. >> >> >> >>BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it >> >>and it sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy >> >>called me to get my address, I had done my internet research and >> >>found this group and changed my mind. >> >> >> >> >> >>>  From: Nuimom@... >> >>>Reply-To: rhythmicliving >> >>>To: rhythmicliving >> >>>Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you >> >>>trust? >> >>>Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, >> >>>hatfield100@... writes: >> >>>>almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day >> >>>>of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could >> >>>>even use the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my >> >>>>blood work, that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >>>>I took oral P, 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt >> >>>>like crap too, dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, >> >>>>blocked all my E. PLEASE let us know about your urine test and >> >>>>how it compares. They do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, >> >>>>but I think the fat storage issue for P will still be there. I >> >>>>went thru this for 2 years during the WP phase of my >> >>>>life.....kindda why we on RL, are giving a heads up about the >> >>>>dangers of P build-up....some of us are still purging it.Be sure >> >>>>you keep your P on VERY THIN SKIN.....tops of feet ect.....some >> >>>>are finding vaginal application best. Keep up posted, thanks, >> >>>>)) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ >> >>> >> >>>**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not >> >>>intended as medical advice.** >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Quote
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Posted February 23, 2006 , Another amazing thorough post and experience dealing with hormones and working hard on getting well!! Thank you for sharing. I can see why you went with the new doctor who was offering help other than sleep apnea machines. Not getting enough sleep is not a state any of us can tolerate well over time and the body never gets to heal. So I totally understand why you went that route. It just makes it real clear to me that the road to balanced hormones (all of them including thyroid and adrenals) is not to be taken lightly. Not even with the EXPERTS! I have been doing BHRT for a year now and I am adjusting continuously to get to a healthier place. And add all this to the Wylie protocol which has left many of us struggling to come down from high doses....and where we were never told (until afterwards) that you do not come down from these doses without having to go through hell and back. So we learn from trial and error. Madeleen Hatfield wrote: I went to see Dr. Vliet in 2003 because of severe, chronic insomnia. After reading her book "Screaming..." I became convinced that low E was the cause. My previous doctor had insisted that blood levels of E not go above 100 and didn't check FSH.Vliet was expensive then but I see she is even more expensive now. I paid $2550 for the first visit. I see that now it is $3400. I was not disappointed with the first visit though. Before seeing Dr. Vliet, you see her nurse who does some tests and spends a lot of time with you going over stuff. Dr. Vliet spent an hour and a half with me and was very thorough. She was concerned that I hadn't been taking enough P because I hadn't had any periods. (The previous doctor had me taking P for only 7 days every 3 months and didn't seem concerned that I wasn't having periods.) She put me on a BCP with high progestin, called the Nuvaring and I had my first period in 8 years. She had me get an ultrasound when I got back to LA and although the endometrium was fine, a large mass was discovered and it appeared to be the ovary itself. So, I had an ovarian cancer scare and had to have surgery just to find out what the mass actually was. Vliet was very helpful throughout this ordeal and advised me on the pros and cons of having my uterus removed while the surgeon was in there anyway. She thought it would be a good idea and after the excruciating pain of the period I had just had, I didn't want to go through that again so had the hysterectomy. As it turns out the mass was a fibroid, not an ovarian tumor but the ovary had to come out because everything was stuck together. Vlet started me on oral E but I processed it so rapidly that I was having to take it every 4 hours around the clock to prevent hot flashes and I was taking way too much. Next she tried E injections, as they are supposed to be absorbed gradually. That didn't work either. Then she had me try the patch but that wasn't good either. My gynecologist told me about the Femring, which Vliet hadn't used yet because it was new but Vliet was fine with me trying it. Through experimentation, I found that I needed to use a .1 patch and change it every 2 days and I needed to use 2 Femrings at a time, inserting one on the 1st of the month and one on the 15th to keep the E levels high enough and steady enough. I also found that the Femrings only lasted me a month, not the 3 months the manufacturers claim. Vliet said this was common and advised that the patch be changed every 2 days, not 3 1/2 as the manufacturers recommended. After E levels were pretty good, Vliet put me on some oral T at a low dose. The only problem was that none of this helped my insomnia and after 10 years of it on a nightly basis, I was desperate. Vliet didn't really know what the cause of it would be if it wasn't insomnia. She advised me to go to a sleep lab and have a study done, which I did. The lab didn't know either and just said it was probably a "behavioral" problem! So, although I wasn't unhappy with Vliet, after six months I began to search for yet another doctor and found one locally that I wanted to try because he said he could handle the insomnia with low dose hydrocortisone to support the adrenals. I thought I could see both at the same time but the new doctor also wanted to tinker with my E, P and T and insisted that it was malpractice for me not to take P, whether I had a uterus or not. Vliet was adamant that I could only have one "hormone manager" and that if I insisted on seeing the other doctor, she would withdraw because she couldn't be effective if someone else was altering what she said. She also became angry that the other doctor was suggesting hydrocortisone and said I did not need it and it would hurt me. Because Vliet didn't have an answer for the insomnia and the new doctor said he did, I somewhat reluctantly let Dr. Vliet know that I would no longer be consulting her. In hindsight that was probably a bad move. I recently realized that the new (now old) doctor was a bit of a wild man when it came to monitoring hormone levels. He put me on T cream and looking back at my blood tests for about a year and a half with him, the T levels were WAY too high. I didn't realize it at the time. It was only when I lost about 75% of the hair on the top of my head that I twigged. This hair loss is more distressing to me than not sleeping. You girls that are going through it know what I mean. It's devastating emotionally to see yourself become one of those "balding old ladies". If I had stuck with Vliet, I would probably still have all my hair as she took a very measured, controlled approach to adding hormones. And, the insomnia is still not handled (the hydrocortisone didn't help and it was so difficult to wean off of it) and it appears that it may be due to heavy metal toxicity, not low hormones. That's the road I'm going down now. I hope this data is helpful, even though it's long. I liked Vliet and felt she really knew her stuff, even though her stuff was limited to certain hormone issues. Of course, maybe I felt that way because she projects an air of confidence and knowledge and makes her recommendations without hesitation. On the other hand, she thought "adrenal fatigue" was a scam and I don't think it is. What is the hair loss BHRT group that you're part of? Reply-To: rhythmicliving To: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you trust?Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:35:18 -0500>Hey ... would you mind sharing a little on your Vliet >experience? I post on another board with a women who is having >quite a time with her... not necessarily bad, we just can't connect >the book she wrote to her present advice... but then again, we're >not doctors with loads of clinical experience... ? :-)>>>>I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and >>hands so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in >>the bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I >>can't take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the >>fifth day - from digestive byproducts, I've read.>>>>I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of 10 >>but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting >>recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet >>that I no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. >>Maybe different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any >>case, during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and >>see what happens.>>>>BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it >>and it sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy >>called me to get my address, I had done my internet research and >>found this group and changed my mind.>>>>>>> >>Reply-To: rhythmicliving >>>To: rhythmicliving >>>Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you >>>trust?>>>Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST>>>>>>>>>In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, >>>hatfield100@... writes:>>>>almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day >>>>of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could >>>>even use the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my >>>>blood work, that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>I took oral P, 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt >>>>like crap too, dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, >>>>blocked all my E. PLEASE let us know about your urine test and >>>>how it compares. They do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, >>>>but I think the fat storage issue for P will still be there. I >>>>went thru this for 2 years during the WP phase of my >>>>life.....kindda why we on RL, are giving a heads up about the >>>>dangers of P build-up....some of us are still purging it.Be sure >>>>you keep your P on VERY THIN SKIN.....tops of feet ect.....some >>>>are finding vaginal application best. Keep up posted, thanks, >>>>)) >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/>>>>>>**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not >>>intended as medical advice.**>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote
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