Re: Re: Vliet/Atlanta girl

[Guest guest]

Oh Atlanta girl, can you share some of that experience re Vliet with us? She charges plenty and then to not get what you were hoping for???? MadeleenAtlanta Girl wrote: Hey ... would you mind sharing a little on your Vliet experience? I post on another board with a women who is having quite a time with her... not necessarily bad, we just can't connect the book she wrote to her present advice... but then again, we're not doctors with loads of clinical experience... ? :-)> I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and hands > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas. Â I can't > take

the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the fifth day > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.>> I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of 10 > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet that I > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. Maybe > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any case, > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and see what > happens.>> BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it and it > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called me to > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this group > and changed my mind.>> >> > Reply-To:

rhythmicliving >> To: rhythmicliving >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you >> trust?>> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST>>>>>> >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could even use >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood work, >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took oral P, >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap too, >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all my E. >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. They >>> do

urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for 2 >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, are >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of us are >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN SKIN.....tops >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. Keep up >>> posted, thanks, )) >> Â >> Â >>>>>> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/>>>> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not >> intended as medical advice.**>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Madeleen.... she is 35, going on 36, had a blood E of 60 prior to ERT.

AFter the .15 patch she tested at 257, but still had many low E

symptoms. After a P cycle all the E value left. I also though the P

was way too high in relation to the E.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Eileen

> My Eileen, this is quite a disconcerting story.  I wonder what her

> estrogen blood levels are???  Are they up there in the 190 ng/ml

> level?  I would be surprised it they are up with that little estrogen

> and that much progesterone.   Of course I do not know what her age is

> and other circumstances, which Vliet may be taking into consideration.

> And aahh, no woman likes to have hair loss, so she sounds dismissive

> about that.  Not a wonderful thing.  

>  

> thanks for sharing this very informative post. Keep us posted as to

> her progress.

>  

> Madeleen

>  

>  

>

>

> Eileen wrote:

>> Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty!  One of the gals in our hair

>> loss BHRT group sees

>> her.  (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) 

>>

>> She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her

>> situation is complicated...

>> hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult

>> birth from which she

>> couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. 

>>

>> Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made an

>> adjustment to her

>> synthroid.  When I met this girl on a public board she was suffering

>> an extreme BCP TE on

>> top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of

>> other symptoms, ie.

>> night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall....  Many of us think

>> she is low estradiol and

>> needs a greater quantity than most.  Vliet is vehemently against

>> upping the estradiol and

>> wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot.  She was completely against this

>> girl going off the pill in

>> the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her hair

>> back and find wellness

>> on BHRT.  Those of us in our present group prompt her in confronting

>> Vliet and

>> advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some

>> experimentation. 

>> According to what I can tell Vliet is " locked in " even though our gal

>> is clearly " Screaming... "

>>

>> It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal continuing

>> to rack up huge

>> telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of

>> frustration.  She feels she can

>> not move on to another doctor after having invested so much.

>>

>> Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair

>> loss, pelvic pain.... and

>> Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P

>> and argued for her to

>> be continuos, 100 mg a day.  Finally Vliet agreed to let her try the

>> greater dose of E, which

>> puts her up to .2 mg transdermal.  In blood terms with the Vivelle

>> Dot, this should give her

>> a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any

>> standards.

>>

>> Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about

>> estradiol, yet is hell bent

>> on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal

>> with hair loss.  She

>> mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest

>> concern going.  Clearly

>> it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this

>> " care " in any way.

>>

>> Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. 

>>

>>

>>

>> This is all I know! 

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >

>> > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and

>> hands

>> > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the

>> > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.   I

>> can't

>> > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the fifth

>> day

>> > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.

>> > >

>> > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of

>> 10

>> > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting

>> > > recently.  I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet

>> that I

>> > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees.  Maybe

>> > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know.  In any case,

>> > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and see

>> what

>> > > happens.

>> > >

>> > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol.  My doctor suggested it

>> and it

>> > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called

>> me to

>> > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this

>> group

>> > > and changed my mind.

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >> From: Nuimom@...

>> > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving

>> > >> To: rhythmicliving

>> > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you

>> > >> trust?

>> > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>> > >> hatfield100@... writes:

>> > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day

>> > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could

>> even use

>> > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood

>> work,

>> > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took

>> oral P,

>> > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap

>> too,

>> > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all my

>> E.

>> > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares.

>> They

>> > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat

>> > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for 2

>> > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL,

>> are

>> > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of us

>> are

>> > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN

>> SKIN.....tops

>> > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. Keep

>> up

>> > >>> posted, thanks, ))

>> > >> Â

>> > >> Â

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>> > >>

>> > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not

>> > >> intended as medical advice.**

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

[Guest guest]

Atlanta Girl wrote: After a P cycle all the E value left. Eileen, you mean the E dropped way down again, what day(s)???? Is she measuring E on day 12 and 22???? Madeleen > My Eileen, this is quite a disconcerting story. I wonder what her > estrogen blood levels are??? Are they up there in the 190 ng/ml > level? I would be surprised it they are up with that little estrogen > and that much progesterone.   Of course I do not know what her age is > and other circumstances, which Vliet may be taking into consideration.> And aahh, no woman likes to have hair

loss, so she sounds dismissive > about that. Not a wonderful thing.  >  > thanks for sharing this very informative post. Keep us posted as to > her progress.>  > Madeleen>  >  >>> Eileen wrote:>> Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty! One of the gals in our hair >> loss BHRT group sees>> her. (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) >>>> She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her >> situation is complicated...>> hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult >> birth from which she>> couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. >>>> Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made an >> adjustment to her>>

synthroid. When I met this girl on a public board she was suffering >> an extreme BCP TE on>> top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of >> other symptoms, ie.>> night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall.... Many of us think >> she is low estradiol and>> needs a greater quantity than most. Vliet is vehemently against >> upping the estradiol and>> wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot. She was completely against this >> girl going off the pill in>> the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her hair >> back and find wellness>> on BHRT. Those of us in our present group prompt her in confronting >> Vliet and>> advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some >> experimentation. >> According to what I can tell Vliet is "locked in" even

though our gal >> is clearly "Screaming...">>>> It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal continuing >> to rack up huge>> telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of >> frustration. She feels she can>> not move on to another doctor after having invested so much.>>>> Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair >> loss, pelvic pain.... and>> Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P >> and argued for her to>> be continuos, 100 mg a day. Finally Vliet agreed to let her try the >> greater dose of E, which>> puts her up to .2 mg transdermal. In blood terms with the Vivelle >> Dot, this should give her>> a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any >> standards.>>>>

Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about >> estradiol, yet is hell bent>> on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal >> with hair loss. She>> mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest >> concern going. Clearly>> it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this >> "care" in any way.>>>> Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. >>>>>>>> This is all I know! >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and >> hands>> > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the>> > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I >> can't>> > > take the oral stuff because I get

blinding headaches by the fifth >> day>> > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.>> > >>> > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of >> 10>> > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting>> > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet >> that I>> > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. Maybe>> > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any case,>> > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and see >> what>> > > happens.>> > >>> > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it >> and it>> > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called

>> me to>> > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this >> group>> > > and changed my mind.>> > >>> > > >> > >> > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving >> > >> To: rhythmicliving >> > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you>> > >> trust?>> > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> >> > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day>> > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could >> even use>> >

>>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood >> work,>> > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took >> oral P,>> > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap >> too,>> > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all my >> E.>> > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. >> They>> > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat>> > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for 2>> > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, >> are>> > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of us >> are>> > >>> still purging it.Be sure

you keep your P on VERY THIN >> SKIN.....tops>> > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. Keep >> up>> > >>> posted, thanks, )) >> > >> Â>> > >> Â>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/>> > >>>> > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not>> > >> intended as medical advice.**>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>

[Guest guest]

It dropped down or appeared to drop down with the return of low E

symptoms being the indicator during the 5th day on P and after the 12

days were over... don't know when she tested. Is day 12 and 22 from

the Sex, Lies,.... book?

>

>

> Atlanta Girl wrote: After a P cycle all

> the E value left.

>> Eileen, you mean the E dropped way down again, what day(s)????  Is

>> she measuring E on day 12 and 22????

>> Madeleen

>>  

>>  

>>

>>

>> > My Eileen, this is quite a disconcerting story.  I wonder what her

>> > estrogen blood levels are???  Are they up there in the 190 ng/ml

>> > level?  I would be surprised it they are up with that little

>> estrogen

>> > and that much progesterone.   Of course I do not know what her

>> age is

>> > and other circumstances, which Vliet may be taking into

>> consideration.

>> > And aahh, no woman likes to have hair loss, so she sounds dismissive

>> > about that.  Not a wonderful thing.  

>> >  

>> > thanks for sharing this very informative post. Keep us posted as to

>> > her progress.

>> >  

>> > Madeleen

>> >  

>> >  

>> >

>> >

>> > Eileen wrote:

>> >> Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty!  One of the gals in our

>> hair

>> >> loss BHRT group sees

>> >> her.  (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) 

>> >>

>> >> She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her

>> >> situation is complicated...

>> >> hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult

>> >> birth from which she

>> >> couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. 

>> >>

>> >> Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made

>> an

>> >> adjustment to her

>> >> synthroid.  When I met this girl on a public board she was

>> suffering

>> >> an extreme BCP TE on

>> >> top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of

>> >> other symptoms, ie.

>> >> night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall....  Many of us think

>> >> she is low estradiol and

>> >> needs a greater quantity than most.  Vliet is vehemently against

>> >> upping the estradiol and

>> >> wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot.  She was completely against this

>> >> girl going off the pill in

>> >> the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her

>> hair

>> >> back and find wellness

>> >> on BHRT.  Those of us in our present group prompt her in

>> confronting

>> >> Vliet and

>> >> advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some

>> >> experimentation. 

>> >> According to what I can tell Vliet is " locked in " even though our

>> gal

>> >> is clearly " Screaming... "

>> >>

>> >> It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal

>> continuing

>> >> to rack up huge

>> >> telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of

>> >> frustration.  She feels she can

>> >> not move on to another doctor after having invested so much.

>> >>

>> >> Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair

>> >> loss, pelvic pain.... and

>> >> Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P

>> >> and argued for her to

>> >> be continuos, 100 mg a day.  Finally Vliet agreed to let her try

>> the

>> >> greater dose of E, which

>> >> puts her up to .2 mg transdermal.  In blood terms with the Vivelle

>> >> Dot, this should give her

>> >> a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any

>> >> standards.

>> >>

>> >> Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about

>> >> estradiol, yet is hell bent

>> >> on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal

>> >> with hair loss.  She

>> >> mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest

>> >> concern going.  Clearly

>> >> it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this

>> >> " care " in any way.

>> >>

>> >> Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. 

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> This is all I know! 

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> >

>> >> > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and

>> >> hands

>> >> > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in

>> the

>> >> > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.   I

>> >> can't

>> >> > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the

>> fifth

>> >> day

>> >> > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.

>> >> > >

>> >> > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading

>> of

>> >> 10

>> >> > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since

>> starting

>> >> > > recently.  I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr.

>> Vliet

>> >> that I

>> >> > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. 

>> Maybe

>> >> > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know.  In any

>> case,

>> >> > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and

>> see

>> >> what

>> >> > > happens.

>> >> > >

>> >> > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol.  My doctor

>> suggested it

>> >> and it

>> >> > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called

>> >> me to

>> >> > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this

>> >> group

>> >> > > and changed my mind.

>> >> > >

>> >> > >

>> >> > >> From: Nuimom@...

>> >> > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving

>> >> > >> To: rhythmicliving

>> >> > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do

>> you

>> >> > >> trust?

>> >> > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>> >> > >> hatfield100@... writes:

>> >> > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th

>> day

>> >> > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I

>> could

>> >> even use

>> >> > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood

>> >> work,

>> >> > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took

>> >> oral P,

>> >> > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap

>> >> too,

>> >> > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all

>> my

>> >> E.

>> >> > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares.

>> >> They

>> >> > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the

>> fat

>> >> > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this

>> for 2

>> >> > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL,

>> >> are

>> >> > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of

>> us

>> >> are

>> >> > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN

>> >> SKIN.....tops

>> >> > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best.

>> Keep

>> >> up

>> >> > >>> posted, thanks, ))

>> >> > >> Â

>> >> > >> Â

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not

>> >> > >> intended as medical advice.**

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >>

>> >> > >>

[Guest guest]

Karin... She was fine before giving birth, although had been on and off

BCP, so this most likely created some residual issues, one of which was

hair loss. Seems for some of us the hair follicle can be predisposed

to T sensitivity in the absence of E with follows birth as well. What

you wrote makes sense. It's so sad, her one child will most certainly

be her only and the physical issues interfere. I have thought that

sometimes you need to " load " a little more on hormones in order to feed

the system and can then back off when the body catches up. Vliet

finally did agree to upping the E from .15 to .2 after a big hoopla on

the phone a few times. I fear the high level of P she has her on will

oppose the E too much. ???

Eileen

> Hi Eileen,

> Just read your post in reference to this poor girl. I remember

> reading in one of the womens

> hormone books (I think it was written by some NYC gyn/endos/ forget

> name) and they did

> state somewhere that sometimes after giving birth there is some shock

> (lack of better

> word) to the endochrine system which then carries with it thyroid

> failure and premature

> ovarian failure and I think it has to do with the pituitary. Its

> something like massive

> endochrine failure and all of the various hormones need to be

> replaced. How was this

> person before she gave birth?

> Karin

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and

> hands

> > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the

> > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.   I

> can't

> > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the

> fifth day

> > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.

> > > >

> > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading

> of 10

> > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since

> starting

> > > > recently.  I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet

> that I

> > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. 

> Maybe

> > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know.  In any

> case,

> > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and

> see what

> > > > happens.

> > > >

> > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol.  My doctor suggested

> it and it

> > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called

> me to

> > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this

> group

> > > > and changed my mind.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >> From: Nuimom@

> > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving

> > > >> To: rhythmicliving

> > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do

> you

> > > >> trust?

> > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> > > >> hatfield100@ writes:

> > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day

> > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I

> could even use

> > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood

> work,

> > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took

> oral P,

> > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap

> too,

> > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all

> my E.

> > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares.

> They

> > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat

> > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for

> 2

> > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL,

> are

> > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of

> us are

> > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN

> SKIN.....tops

> > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best.

> Keep up

> > > >>> posted, thanks, ))

> > > >> Â

> > > >> Â

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

> > > >>

> > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not

> > > >> intended as medical advice.**

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Atlanta Girl wrote: It dropped down or appeared to drop down with the return of low E symptoms being the indicator during the 5th day on P and after the 12 days were over... don't know when she tested. Is day 12 and 22 from the Sex, Lies,.... book? I would want to have her test me at the peaks and valleys of both follicular and luteal phase to see where the E and P end up. Of course the E is supposed to drop down in the luteal phase, but the question is how much and how low does it go. You do still need E during the cycle. And the E peaks again during the P cycle except lower than P, but still a bell curve. Day 12 is peak follicular phase and day 21 or 22 is peak of luteal phase. Day 13 and day 1 would be the

valleys. So, yes according to Wiley's book (ugh I can hardly believe it that I just pulled this book off the shelf) the E and P readings should be the inverse. So Day 12 for a healthy young woman the E would be 425 and P 1.7 and on day 21 it should be E-150, P-21. Of course this can vary and there ought to be an expected age range and phase of cycle on the lab report. So have her take a look to see when the E and P were obtained and suggest she get more numbers at different times in the cycle. Madeleen >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Madeleen!!!! I know how much time it takes to construct

and post with detailed info- I have posted this to our group.... Eileen

>

>>  

>> So have her take a look to see when the E and P were obtained and

>> suggest she get more numbers at different times in the cycle.

>>  

>> Madeleen

>>  

>>  

>>  

>>  

>>  

>>  

[Guest guest]

karin... you are like me in that i will craft a protocol based on my

own studies and research. many women are unable to grasp a hormonal

understanding that frees them fear. vliet has placed tons of fear in

her over various hormonal issues. last conversation when this girl

mentioned lessening the p dose, vliet welled up into into anger and

said, " the last thing we need is for you to start bleeding

uncontrollably " !! freaked her OUT.

> Find a gyn that will do an occasional sono to

> check for hyperplasia.

i appreciate what you are saying as i think it is a viable responsible

road to take, although most of the medical profession would not agree.

but, what are you to do if you have a 'paradoxical' thing happening

with p....????

> I think it is a genetic

> predisposition to what available enzymes you have to convert one

> hormone to another.

meaning p converts to t faster with you... or....?

question: should hyperplasia be discovered what is the treatment?

karin, if there is anything else you can tell me about the uterine

lining and the 'thickening' that results from unopposed e i would

appreciate it. because you are on the path you are you must have done

homework on this.

thanks so much for your thoughtfulness,

Atlanta Girl

> Why can't she use the E and not use the P? Find a gyn that will do an

> occasional sono to

> check for hyperplasia. That is what I do. I go see 2 Dr's and kind of

> do my own thing. I

> have finally had hair grow back on my head after stopping the

> aldactone and the P.

> Everytime I try to use the smallest amount of P I loose hair. I think

> it is a genetic

> predisposition to what available enzymes you have to convert one

> hormone to another.

> Just a guess.

> Karin

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >  > >

> > >  > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my

> feet and

> > > hands

> > >  > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels

> in the

> > >  > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.

>   I

> > > can't

> > >  > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the

> > > fifth day

> > >  > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.

> > >  > > >

> > >  > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood

> reading

> > > of 10

> > >  > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since

> > > starting

> > >  > > > recently.  I have had a hysterectomy and was told by

> Dr. Vliet

> > > that I

> > >  > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor

> disagrees. 

> > > Maybe

> > >  > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know.  In

> any

> > > case,

> > >  > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose

> and

> > > see what

> > >  > > > happens.

> > >  > > >

> > >  > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol.  My doctor

> suggested

> > > it and it

> > >  > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy

> called

> > > me to

> > >  > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found

> this

> > > group

> > >  > > > and changed my mind.

> > >  > > >

> > >  > > >

> > >  > > >> From: Nuimom@

> > >  > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving

> > >  > > >> To: rhythmicliving

> > >  > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh!

> Who do

> > > you

> > >  > > >> trust?

> > >  > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > >  > > >> hatfield100@ writes:

> > >  > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the

> 14th day

> > >  > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I

> found I

> > > could even use

> > >  > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my

> blood

> > > work,

> > >  > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I

> took

> > > oral P,

> > >  > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like

> crap

> > > too,

> > >  > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked

> all

> > > my E.

> > >  > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it

> compares.

> > > They

> > >  > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think

> the fat

> > >  > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru

> this for

> > > 2

> > >  > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we

> on RL,

> > > are

> > >  > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P

> build-up....some of

> > > us are

> > >  > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN

> > > SKIN.....tops

> > >  > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application

> best.

> > > Keep up

> > >  > > >>> posted, thanks, ))

> > >  > > >> Â

> > >  > > >> Â

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and

> is not

> > >  > > >> intended as medical advice.**

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >>

> > >  > > >>