Re: Crazy high numbers on hormone tests!!!

[Guest guest]

Saliva tests are notariously inaccurate.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Sonii Nagel

Any ideas anyone?

[Guest guest]

Saliva tests are notariously inaccurate.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Sonii Nagel

Any ideas anyone?

[Guest guest]

I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.Sonii-

I bet you're right Sonii,

[Guest guest]

I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.Sonii-

I bet you're right Sonii,

[Guest guest]

May 26 is when my Dr. appointment is. Any ideas anyone?

How about maybe saliva tests arent reliable? Check it with serum levels.

[Guest guest]

I know there are many here who do not think they are effective but

the more I study this issue it seems that the blood test have their

flaws.

I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.

Sonii-

-- In rhythmicliving , " Valarie "

wrote:

>

> Saliva tests are notariously inaccurate.

>

> Val

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Sonii Nagel

>

>

> Any ideas anyone?

>

[Guest guest]

You know, I could say that yes, saliva tests are supposed to be

better for finding the hormones STUCK in our fat, but when Laurel

did a saliva test for P, and she KNEW she was overdose on it, it did

NOT show up. Perhaps it is the right person who knows how to DO

the saliva test is what is important.

>

> I know there are many here who do not think they are effective but

> the more I study this issue it seems that the blood test have

their

> flaws.

>

> I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.

>

> Sonii-

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know, I could say that yes, saliva tests are supposed to be

better for finding the hormones STUCK in our fat, but when Laurel

did a saliva test for P, and she KNEW she was overdose on it, it did

NOT show up. Perhaps it is the right person who knows how to DO

the saliva test is what is important.

>

> I know there are many here who do not think they are effective but

> the more I study this issue it seems that the blood test have

their

> flaws.

>

> I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.

>

> Sonii-

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know , last summer I tested with ZRT labs before I found this

doctor who uses Diagnos-techs and my E was way high, like 239 in a

range of 1-10 and P was way low at 379 in a range of 500-3000 and

Testosterone was high and DHEA barely normal and I was taking it

orally at 25mg. This was about a month after I had totally stopped

WP and was just using 2-3mg of E.

When I started WP, the previous Jan. blood test on day 12 showed

normal E,P and T and again on day 21 normal E and P and low T

Then when I blood tested again a few months later in April, the day

12 E was norml at 213 and the P was the same at .8 that it had been

before starting WP. Why didn't any of the high amounts of P or E

show up on the blood tests?

Day 21 in April T, had climbed up to 29 from 12 in early Feb., DHEA

was somewhat higher, but E had skyrocketed up to 562 and P up to

3.8. This test was done on April 29th and I continued the WP through

about mid to late May but I was starting to feel awful and freaking

out emotionally. I was feeling really anxious and volatile and

having some huge blow ups with my kids and husband over stupid small

issues. I was out of control and didn't know what to do. My doctor

suggested I take anti-depressants just to get through this hard

time. I refused and went home and cried. I talked to the

compounding pharmacist and he suggested I do a series of acupuncture

treatments to help me clear some of the high levels of hormones so I

did and that helped so much. The acupuncturist suggested I see her

doctor who had helped her through menopause issues with natural

hormones and he used saliva testing. I went ahead and did the ZRT

test waiting to get into see this new doctor.

All fall and spring I have not re tested hormones since I was feeling

pretty good and more evened out and he did test my neurotransmitters

and put me on Tyrosine, SamE and 5HTP. But I still was having either

long or short cycles and not using any P which this doctor actually

prefered. I stayed on my armour and have upped it to 2.5 gr. which I

divide morning and afternoon.

Looking back, my hormone levels were actually very good and I wished

I had just left this all alone and just worked on my thyroid. I

think it may take a long time to come back to where I was or I may

never be the same. My friend was just diagnosed with breast cancer

last week and had a lumpectomy and will start chemo and radiation

soon. She is 50 and was a nurse, now real estate agent who never

takes antibiotics, supplements, or anything. She also couldn't have

children so never nursed. I think that is my greatest fear with

these high hormone levels, that I may have set myself up for some

type of cancer. My doctor said he sees 4-5 women a week with breast

cancer.

Don't we all just want to feel good and stay healthy as we get

older? Whether the tests are blood or saliva, I just want some

answers that will put keep me on that path.

I just re-read post number 815 on the Hormones and Health group. I

think there is much wisdom in that, especially for those of us who

tried this crazy experiement with hormone levels higher than

pregnancy.

Sonii

--

- In rhythmicliving , " " wrote:

>

> You know, I could say that yes, saliva tests are supposed to be

> better for finding the hormones STUCK in our fat, but when Laurel

> did a saliva test for P, and she KNEW she was overdose on it, it

did

> NOT show up. Perhaps it is the right person who knows how to DO

> the saliva test is what is important.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I know there are many here who do not think they are effective

but

> > the more I study this issue it seems that the blood test have

> their

> > flaws.

> >

> > I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.

> >

> > Sonii-

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know , last summer I tested with ZRT labs before I found this

doctor who uses Diagnos-techs and my E was way high, like 239 in a

range of 1-10 and P was way low at 379 in a range of 500-3000 and

Testosterone was high and DHEA barely normal and I was taking it

orally at 25mg. This was about a month after I had totally stopped

WP and was just using 2-3mg of E.

When I started WP, the previous Jan. blood test on day 12 showed

normal E,P and T and again on day 21 normal E and P and low T

Then when I blood tested again a few months later in April, the day

12 E was norml at 213 and the P was the same at .8 that it had been

before starting WP. Why didn't any of the high amounts of P or E

show up on the blood tests?

Day 21 in April T, had climbed up to 29 from 12 in early Feb., DHEA

was somewhat higher, but E had skyrocketed up to 562 and P up to

3.8. This test was done on April 29th and I continued the WP through

about mid to late May but I was starting to feel awful and freaking

out emotionally. I was feeling really anxious and volatile and

having some huge blow ups with my kids and husband over stupid small

issues. I was out of control and didn't know what to do. My doctor

suggested I take anti-depressants just to get through this hard

time. I refused and went home and cried. I talked to the

compounding pharmacist and he suggested I do a series of acupuncture

treatments to help me clear some of the high levels of hormones so I

did and that helped so much. The acupuncturist suggested I see her

doctor who had helped her through menopause issues with natural

hormones and he used saliva testing. I went ahead and did the ZRT

test waiting to get into see this new doctor.

All fall and spring I have not re tested hormones since I was feeling

pretty good and more evened out and he did test my neurotransmitters

and put me on Tyrosine, SamE and 5HTP. But I still was having either

long or short cycles and not using any P which this doctor actually

prefered. I stayed on my armour and have upped it to 2.5 gr. which I

divide morning and afternoon.

Looking back, my hormone levels were actually very good and I wished

I had just left this all alone and just worked on my thyroid. I

think it may take a long time to come back to where I was or I may

never be the same. My friend was just diagnosed with breast cancer

last week and had a lumpectomy and will start chemo and radiation

soon. She is 50 and was a nurse, now real estate agent who never

takes antibiotics, supplements, or anything. She also couldn't have

children so never nursed. I think that is my greatest fear with

these high hormone levels, that I may have set myself up for some

type of cancer. My doctor said he sees 4-5 women a week with breast

cancer.

Don't we all just want to feel good and stay healthy as we get

older? Whether the tests are blood or saliva, I just want some

answers that will put keep me on that path.

I just re-read post number 815 on the Hormones and Health group. I

think there is much wisdom in that, especially for those of us who

tried this crazy experiement with hormone levels higher than

pregnancy.

Sonii

--

- In rhythmicliving , " " wrote:

>

> You know, I could say that yes, saliva tests are supposed to be

> better for finding the hormones STUCK in our fat, but when Laurel

> did a saliva test for P, and she KNEW she was overdose on it, it

did

> NOT show up. Perhaps it is the right person who knows how to DO

> the saliva test is what is important.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I know there are many here who do not think they are effective

but

> > the more I study this issue it seems that the blood test have

> their

> > flaws.

> >

> > I think this is more like WP still stuck in my system.

> >

> > Sonii-

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

As I've said before, we can all use hormone meters. But if it

doesn't show up in our blood level, then how do we test?

As for Wiley protocol, who knows HOW long it will take for all that

P to get out of us. Did the accupuncture really help? It's pretty

scary that your doctor sees 4 or 5 women a week with BC!!

Let me put it to you this way. I was bleeding heavily BEFORE I went

on any natural HRT. So I NEEDED it to stay healthy! (except no

doctor has yet figured out my appropriate level or the appropriate

form of natural HRT I should use). Creams are out for me. But I

think we are damned if we do HRT or damned if we don't!

You have to have a VERY knowledgeable doctor is all I can say. Then

there is the issue of depression. As I said in my previous post -

I am weaning off Effexor. Now I hope I don't get " crazy " with those

terrible mood swings I had. Maybe all along it was my hormones.

>

> I know , last summer I tested with ZRT labs before I found

this

> doctor who uses Diagnos-techs and my E was way high, like 239 in a

> range of 1-10 and P was way low at 379 in a range of 500-3000 and

> Testosterone was high and DHEA barely normal and I was taking it

> orally at 25mg. This was about a month after I had totally

stopped

> WP and was just using 2-3mg of E.

>

>

[Guest guest]

As I've said before, we can all use hormone meters. But if it

doesn't show up in our blood level, then how do we test?

As for Wiley protocol, who knows HOW long it will take for all that

P to get out of us. Did the accupuncture really help? It's pretty

scary that your doctor sees 4 or 5 women a week with BC!!

Let me put it to you this way. I was bleeding heavily BEFORE I went

on any natural HRT. So I NEEDED it to stay healthy! (except no

doctor has yet figured out my appropriate level or the appropriate

form of natural HRT I should use). Creams are out for me. But I

think we are damned if we do HRT or damned if we don't!

You have to have a VERY knowledgeable doctor is all I can say. Then

there is the issue of depression. As I said in my previous post -

I am weaning off Effexor. Now I hope I don't get " crazy " with those

terrible mood swings I had. Maybe all along it was my hormones.

>

> I know , last summer I tested with ZRT labs before I found

this

> doctor who uses Diagnos-techs and my E was way high, like 239 in a

> range of 1-10 and P was way low at 379 in a range of 500-3000 and

> Testosterone was high and DHEA barely normal and I was taking it

> orally at 25mg. This was about a month after I had totally

stopped

> WP and was just using 2-3mg of E.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sonii Nagel wrote: I think that is my greatest fear with these high hormone levels, that I may have set myself up for some type of cancer. My doctor said he sees 4-5 women a week with breast cancer. Sonii, I hear you loud and clear, BUT it may be helpful to know if these women with breast cancer your doctor sees are doing BHRT??? That would give us an inkling of what may be going on here. Perhaps these women were not doing any hormones replacement therapy??? Or if they were what were they taking? Premarin Progestin? There is so much fear

mongering regarding hormones and it is all centered on whatever approach the particular doctor/naturopath/nutritionist has decided to follow, and we know their opinions vary quite a bit, not only in what the "best way" to test is or in how big or small the dosage, and or what hormones they are willing to touch or not touch. The problem with the fear mongering is that it makes it so difficult for us to make decisions that are right for us. I went to see a thyroid doctor with and the endo did not like postmeno women to be any higher than E=60 although my gyno has no problem with estradiol whatsoever, and readings like yours do not face her if it means that you feel better. Here

is something of interest. New studies are indicating that estrogen and testosterone together are more likely to prevent breast cancer. See below. Madeleen Menopause. 2004 Sep-Oct;11(5):531-5. Related Articles, Links Comment in: Menopause. 2004 Sep-Oct;11(5):505-7.Breast cancer incidence in postmenopausal women using testosterone in addition to usual hormone therapy.Dimitrakakis C, RA, Liu A, Bondy CA.Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA.OBJECTIVE: There is now convincing evidence that usual hormone therapy for ovarian failure increases the risk for breast cancer. We have previously shown that

ovarian androgens normally protect mammary epithelial cells from excessive estrogenic stimulation, and therefore we hypothesized that the addition of testosterone to usual hormone therapy might protect women from breast cancer. DESIGN: This was a retrospective, observational study that followed 508 postmenopausal women receiving testosterone in addition to usual hormone therapy in South Australia. Breast cancer status was ascertained by mammography at the initiation of testosterone treatment and biannually thereafter. The average age at the start of follow-up was 56.4 years, and the mean duration of follow-up was 5.8 years. Breast cancer incidence in this group was compared with that of untreated women and women using usual hormone therapy reported in the medical literature and to age-specific local population rates. RESULTS: There were seven cases of invasive breast cancer in this population of testosterone users, for an incidence of 238 per 100,000 woman-years. The rate

for estrogen/progestin and testosterone users was 293 per 100,000 woman-years--substantially less than women receiving estrogen/pro-gestin in the Women's Health Initiative study (380 per 100,000 woman-years) or in the "Million Women" Study (521 per 100,000 woman-years). The breast cancer rate in our testosterone users was closest to that reported for hormone therapy never-users in the latter study (283 per 100,000 woman-years), and their age-standardized rate was the same as for the general population in South Australia. CONCLUSIONS: These observations suggest that the addition of testosterone to conventional hormone therapy for postmenopausal women does not increase and may indeed reduce the hormone therapy-associated breast cancer risk-thereby returning the incidence to the normal rates observed in the general, untreated population.PMID: 15356405 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >

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[Guest guest]

Sonii Nagel wrote: I think that is my greatest fear with these high hormone levels, that I may have set myself up for some type of cancer. My doctor said he sees 4-5 women a week with breast cancer. Sonii, I hear you loud and clear, BUT it may be helpful to know if these women with breast cancer your doctor sees are doing BHRT??? That would give us an inkling of what may be going on here. Perhaps these women were not doing any hormones replacement therapy??? Or if they were what were they taking? Premarin Progestin? There is so much fear

mongering regarding hormones and it is all centered on whatever approach the particular doctor/naturopath/nutritionist has decided to follow, and we know their opinions vary quite a bit, not only in what the "best way" to test is or in how big or small the dosage, and or what hormones they are willing to touch or not touch. The problem with the fear mongering is that it makes it so difficult for us to make decisions that are right for us. I went to see a thyroid doctor with and the endo did not like postmeno women to be any higher than E=60 although my gyno has no problem with estradiol whatsoever, and readings like yours do not face her if it means that you feel better. Here

is something of interest. New studies are indicating that estrogen and testosterone together are more likely to prevent breast cancer. See below. Madeleen Menopause. 2004 Sep-Oct;11(5):531-5. Related Articles, Links Comment in: Menopause. 2004 Sep-Oct;11(5):505-7.Breast cancer incidence in postmenopausal women using testosterone in addition to usual hormone therapy.Dimitrakakis C, RA, Liu A, Bondy CA.Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA.OBJECTIVE: There is now convincing evidence that usual hormone therapy for ovarian failure increases the risk for breast cancer. We have previously shown that

ovarian androgens normally protect mammary epithelial cells from excessive estrogenic stimulation, and therefore we hypothesized that the addition of testosterone to usual hormone therapy might protect women from breast cancer. DESIGN: This was a retrospective, observational study that followed 508 postmenopausal women receiving testosterone in addition to usual hormone therapy in South Australia. Breast cancer status was ascertained by mammography at the initiation of testosterone treatment and biannually thereafter. The average age at the start of follow-up was 56.4 years, and the mean duration of follow-up was 5.8 years. Breast cancer incidence in this group was compared with that of untreated women and women using usual hormone therapy reported in the medical literature and to age-specific local population rates. RESULTS: There were seven cases of invasive breast cancer in this population of testosterone users, for an incidence of 238 per 100,000 woman-years. The rate

for estrogen/progestin and testosterone users was 293 per 100,000 woman-years--substantially less than women receiving estrogen/pro-gestin in the Women's Health Initiative study (380 per 100,000 woman-years) or in the "Million Women" Study (521 per 100,000 woman-years). The breast cancer rate in our testosterone users was closest to that reported for hormone therapy never-users in the latter study (283 per 100,000 woman-years), and their age-standardized rate was the same as for the general population in South Australia. CONCLUSIONS: These observations suggest that the addition of testosterone to conventional hormone therapy for postmenopausal women does not increase and may indeed reduce the hormone therapy-associated breast cancer risk-thereby returning the incidence to the normal rates observed in the general, untreated population.PMID: 15356405 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >

Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

Now why on earth do you suppose the endo would make a statement like

this? Why would they not " like " to see postmeno women higher than E-

60? How about finding out what the hell makes US feel GOOD???

This makes me crazy. Who determined that 60 is correct?? My E was at

60 and I was hot flashing like crazy and miserably in pain. Did the

endo explain this?

>

>

> I went to see a thyroid doctor with and the endo did not like

postmeno women to be any higher than E=60

[Guest guest]

Now why on earth do you suppose the endo would make a statement like

this? Why would they not " like " to see postmeno women higher than E-

60? How about finding out what the hell makes US feel GOOD???

This makes me crazy. Who determined that 60 is correct?? My E was at

60 and I was hot flashing like crazy and miserably in pain. Did the

endo explain this?

>

>

> I went to see a thyroid doctor with and the endo did not like

postmeno women to be any higher than E=60