Re: I have a question about Chapter 6

[Guest guest]

> Maybe I should just be making room for the somatic memories. > If I could connect these two things maybe that is where I could > catch them. I know that if you do not have somatic (body) > memories it may be hard to know. It is so hard to diffuse > body feelings without thoughts.

Hi - I am not the author of the book you are reading, but I am very interested in what you say & have a few ideas to share, in case they are helpful.

I think it might be very helpful for you to follow up on marginal_thought’s suggestion - that is, in addition to “Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life,†which you now have, you might also consider reading “Finding Life Beyond Trauma: Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy to Heal from Post-Traumatic Stress and Trauma-Related Problems,†by M. Follette & , Ph.D. Pistorello. Although the ideas in ACT are meant to apply to a wide variety life situations, “Finding Life Beyond Trauma†is specifically addressed to people in your situation. So I think it might help answer some of your questions or at least put them into context.

Beyond that, I wanted to ask about “somatic memories.†I am guessing from your posts that your experience of “somatic memories†is similar to what people sometimes call “flashbacks.†In other words, you are experiencing something internal which you believe is related to the original event - hence can be labeled “somatic memories†- but that unlike memories, seems to be happening right now, in the present. I am guessing this sort of experience is mostly made up of bodily sensations, plus perhaps images & emotions also, since you say it doesn’t have “thoughts†attached to it.

If this not too far off, then here are some thoughts of mine:

First, is it possible that therapists who specialize in “somatic memories†would say that someone in your position needs to do certain kinds of work with your body or mind to “release†these memories and thereby get rid of the disturbing symptoms that they cause? In other words, would the assumption be that these special memories of pain & trauma must themselves be “gotten rid of†before a person can heal?

If so, then ACT is a little different. ACT does not ask you to believe any particular thing about where memories or trauma might be “held†or encoded or stored. It says that what we normally call “trauma†is an ongoing response to pain - a learned response common to all human beings who use language to think with (meaning just about everybody). According to ACT, what we need to let go of is not the original pain, however deep it may have been, and not our current pain, however deep & difficult that pain may be. Rather, we will benefit most by learning to let go of the suffering we cause ourselves by trying to resist pain in the first place - by defining it as unbearable, permanently damaging, etc.

So if you want to try the ACT approach, try this: see if you can gently let yourself get in touch with your somatic experiences directly, for what they are right now. Remember the exercise from Chapter 4 of “Get Out of Your Mind,†in which you hold your breath the usual way (letting your mind tell you what to think of the experience) and then a second time, this time letting yourself feel the experience directly? When doing this exercise, would it make any difference as to the particular labels our minds want to assign to the experience? Or do all labels have something in common - namely, the property of being labels?

To put it another way, the thoughts you may want to work with in relation to these disturbing experiences (which we are agreeing to label "somatic memories") are not thoughts that are somehow "stored" or "carried" by the experiences themselves - rather, they are the thoughts you are having RIGHT NOW about having these experiences RIGHT NOW. If you did this, what thoughts might show up?

If it is helpful, remember that even people with very scary and painful symptoms such as hearing voices (i.e. people with the label “schizophrenicsâ€) have been helped by ACT to hear such voices without having to obey them or run from them in any other way. And this has allowed these persons to engage in their lives and do the things they care about deeply, rather than stay stuck in trying to fight their symptoms. Other people have also been helped by ACT - for example, persons with scary body sensations related to panic attacks. And people with trauma symptoms have also been helped. So it’s good you’re looking into ACT to see if it can help you. I don't know much about somatically oriented therapies, but perhaps there is a shared message despite the differences - which is that if we are kind to ourselves, we can discover a deeper wisdom beyond words, in our present experience.

--Randy

P.S. There is a very moving book written a few years ago by a Vietnam veteran who later became a Buddhist monk. He endured such hellish combat during his tour of duty that even today he has flashbacks every night & many days about being in combat or under attack or seeing soldiers dying. And yet he has used mindfulness in a way very similar to ACT to find peace with his symptoms and to make a meaningful life for himself and others. If you are interested, the book is “At Hell’s Gate: A Soldier’s Journey from War to Peace,†by Claude Anshin (Shambala, paperback edition 2006, 184 pages, $12.95).

[Guest guest]

(My apologies - I used Yahoo's " Rich-Text Editor (Beta) " to post

with, and now I see that the only browser which seems to that kind of

post properly is Internet Explorer. Other browers turn curly quotes

and curly apostrophes into weird nonsense symbols. So I am reposting

this in good old " non-rich text " so it is readable. - Randy)

> Maybe I should just be making room for the somatic memories.

> If I could connect these two things maybe that is where I could

> catch them. I know that if you do not have somatic (body)

> memories it may be hard to know. It is so hard to diffuse

> body feelings without thoughts.

Hi - I am not the author of the book you are reading, but I am very

interested in what you say & have a few ideas to share, in case they

are helpful.

I think it might be very helpful for you to follow up on

marginal_thought's suggestion - that is, in addition to " Get Out of

Your Mind and Into Your Life, " which you now have, you might also

consider reading " Finding Life Beyond Trauma: Using Acceptance and

Commitment Therapy to Heal from Post-Traumatic Stress and Trauma-

Related Problems, " by M. Follette and Pistorello.

Although the ideas in ACT are meant to apply to a wide variety of

life situations, " Finding Life Beyond Trauma " is specifically

addressed to people in your situation. So I think it might help

answer some of your questions or at least put them into context.

Beyond that, I wanted to ask about " somatic memories. " I am guessing

from your posts that your experience of " somatic memories " is similar

to what people sometimes call " flashbacks. " In other words, you are

experiencing something internal which you believe is related to the

original event - hence can be labeled " somatic memories " - but that

unlike memories, seems to be happening right now, in the present. I

am guessing this sort of experience is mostly made up of bodily

sensations, plus perhaps images and emotions also, since you say it

doesn't have thoughts attached to it.

If this not too far off, then here are some thoughts of mine:

First, is it possible that therapists who specialize in " somatic

memories " would say that someone in your position needs to do certain

kinds of work with your body or mind to " release " these memories and

thereby get rid of the disturbing symptoms that they cause? In other

words, would the assumption be that these special memories of pain &

trauma must themselves be " gotten rid of " before a person can heal?

If so, then ACT is a little different. ACT does not ask you to

believe any particular thing about where memories or trauma might

be " held " or encoded or stored. It says that what we normally

call " trauma " is an ongoing response to pain - a learned response

common to all human beings who use language to think with (meaning

just about everybody). According to ACT, what we need to let go of is

not the original pain, however deep it may have been, and not our

current pain, however deep & difficult that pain may be. Rather, we

will benefit most by learning to let go of the suffering we cause

ourselves by trying to resist pain in the first place - by defining

it as unbearable, permanently damaging, etc.

So if you want to try the ACT approach, try this: see if you can

gently let yourself get in touch with your somatic experiences

directly, for what they are right now. Remember the exercise from

Chapter 4 of " Get Out of Your Mind, " in which you hold your breath

the usual way (letting your mind tell you what to think of the

experience) and then a second time, this time letting yourself feel

the experience directly? When doing this exercise, would it make any

difference as to the particular labels our minds want to assign to

the experience? Or do all labels have something in common - namely,

the property of being labels?

To put it another way, the thoughts you may want to work with in

relation to these disturbing experiences (which we are agreeing to

label " somatic memories " ) are not thoughts that are somehow " stored "

or " carried " by the experiences themselves - rather, they are the

thoughts you are having RIGHT NOW about having these experiences

RIGHT NOW. If you did this, what thoughts might show up?

If it is helpful, remember that even people with very scary and

painful symptoms such as hearing voices (i.e. people with the

label " schizophrenics " ) have been helped by ACT to hear such voices

without having to obey them or run from them in any other way. And

this has allowed these persons to engage in their lives and do the

things they care about deeply, rather than stay stuck in trying to

fight their symptoms. Other people have also been helped by ACT - for

example, persons with scary body sensations related to panic attacks.

And people with trauma symptoms have also been helped. So it's good

you're looking into ACT to see if it can help you. I don't know much

about somatically oriented therapies, but perhaps there is a shared

message despite the differences - which is that if we are kind to

ourselves, we can discover a deeper wisdom beyond words, in our

present experience.

--Randy

P.S. There is a very moving book written a few years ago by a Vietnam

veteran who later became a Buddhist monk. He endured such hellish

combat during his tour of duty that even today he has flashbacks

every night and many days about being in combat or under attack or

seeing soldiers dying. And yet he has used mindfulness in a way very

similar to ACT to find peace with his symptoms and to make a

meaningful life for himself and others. If you are interested, the

book is " At Hell's Gate: A Soldier's Journey from War to Peace, " by

Claude Anshin (Shambala, paperback edition 2006, 184 pages,

$12.95).

[Guest guest]

Hi Randy,

This was very helpful. I may have to get both of those books. ACT

has been helping with this and so has some books by Albert Ellis and

the ABC model. Really, most of my issue is my beliefs about the

symptoms and getting myself upset about it. Before, this was just

anxiety until my therapist 5 years ago told me it was somatic

memories and the like. I a starting to think that she sort of

brought this stuff on and maybe it is not as much as I thought. Not

sure and of course this is a long story. I am trying to find a

therapist I can trust now.

At any rate, thanks for the info I really appreciate it. Hope you

are having a great holiday if in the USA.

Robyn

> > Maybe I should just be making room for the somatic memories.

> > If I could connect these two things maybe that is where I could

> > catch them. I know that if you do not have somatic (body)

> > memories it may be hard to know. It is so hard to diffuse

> > body feelings without thoughts.

>

> Hi - I am not the author of the book you are reading, but I am very

> interested in what you say & have a few ideas to share, in case

they

> are helpful.

>

> I think it might be very helpful for you to follow up on

> marginal_thought's suggestion - that is, in addition to " Get Out of

> Your Mind and Into Your Life, " which you now have, you might also

> consider reading " Finding Life Beyond Trauma: Using Acceptance and

> Commitment Therapy to Heal from Post-Traumatic Stress and Trauma-

> Related Problems, " by M. Follette and

Pistorello.

> Although the ideas in ACT are meant to apply to a wide variety of

> life situations, " Finding Life Beyond Trauma " is specifically

> addressed to people in your situation. So I think it might help

> answer some of your questions or at least put them into context.

>

> Beyond that, I wanted to ask about " somatic memories. " I am

guessing

> from your posts that your experience of " somatic memories " is

similar

> to what people sometimes call " flashbacks. " In other words, you are

> experiencing something internal which you believe is related to the

> original event - hence can be labeled " somatic memories " - but that

> unlike memories, seems to be happening right now, in the present. I

> am guessing this sort of experience is mostly made up of bodily

> sensations, plus perhaps images and emotions also, since you say it

> doesn't have thoughts attached to it.

>

> If this not too far off, then here are some thoughts of mine:

>

> First, is it possible that therapists who specialize in " somatic

> memories " would say that someone in your position needs to do

certain

> kinds of work with your body or mind to " release " these memories

and

> thereby get rid of the disturbing symptoms that they cause? In

other

> words, would the assumption be that these special memories of pain

&

> trauma must themselves be " gotten rid of " before a person can heal?

>

> If so, then ACT is a little different. ACT does not ask you to

> believe any particular thing about where memories or trauma might

> be " held " or encoded or stored. It says that what we normally

> call " trauma " is an ongoing response to pain - a learned response

> common to all human beings who use language to think with (meaning

> just about everybody). According to ACT, what we need to let go of

is

> not the original pain, however deep it may have been, and not our

> current pain, however deep & difficult that pain may be. Rather, we

> will benefit most by learning to let go of the suffering we cause

> ourselves by trying to resist pain in the first place - by defining

> it as unbearable, permanently damaging, etc.

>

> So if you want to try the ACT approach, try this: see if you can

> gently let yourself get in touch with your somatic experiences

> directly, for what they are right now. Remember the exercise from

> Chapter 4 of " Get Out of Your Mind, " in which you hold your breath

> the usual way (letting your mind tell you what to think of the

> experience) and then a second time, this time letting yourself feel

> the experience directly? When doing this exercise, would it make

any

> difference as to the particular labels our minds want to assign to

> the experience? Or do all labels have something in common - namely,

> the property of being labels?

>

> To put it another way, the thoughts you may want to work with in

> relation to these disturbing experiences (which we are agreeing to

> label " somatic memories " ) are not thoughts that are

somehow " stored "

> or " carried " by the experiences themselves - rather, they are the

> thoughts you are having RIGHT NOW about having these experiences

> RIGHT NOW. If you did this, what thoughts might show up?

>

> If it is helpful, remember that even people with very scary and

> painful symptoms such as hearing voices (i.e. people with the

> label " schizophrenics " ) have been helped by ACT to hear such voices

> without having to obey them or run from them in any other way. And

> this has allowed these persons to engage in their lives and do the

> things they care about deeply, rather than stay stuck in trying to

> fight their symptoms. Other people have also been helped by ACT -

for

> example, persons with scary body sensations related to panic

attacks.

> And people with trauma symptoms have also been helped. So it's good

> you're looking into ACT to see if it can help you. I don't know

much

> about somatically oriented therapies, but perhaps there is a shared

> message despite the differences - which is that if we are kind to

> ourselves, we can discover a deeper wisdom beyond words, in our

> present experience.

>

> --Randy

>

> P.S. There is a very moving book written a few years ago by a

Vietnam

> veteran who later became a Buddhist monk. He endured such hellish

> combat during his tour of duty that even today he has flashbacks

> every night and many days about being in combat or under attack or

> seeing soldiers dying. And yet he has used mindfulness in a way

very

> similar to ACT to find peace with his symptoms and to make a

> meaningful life for himself and others. If you are interested, the

> book is " At Hell's Gate: A Soldier's Journey from War to Peace, " by

> Claude Anshin (Shambala, paperback edition 2006, 184 pages,

> $12.95).

>