Re: Help me die with Dignity

[Guest guest]

You don't want to be talked out of it, fine. I don't think anyone

could. I'm just wondering who it is that wants to die? You or your

mind. The same mind that is throwing you all the crap about not

accomplishing anything and only having minor succes in life. That is

quite a story your mind has built for your life. Hell I have the same

thoughts and no matter how much I do accomplish it still tells me

crap like, " oh anyone could do that " or " it isn't that much " blah

blah blah.

Are you really going to let your mind murder You??? The same you that

you believe will pass to another life.

I know your in pain, so is everyone else on this planet. We are

programmed for that. We have to see everything as a threat. That is

how we have survived. I just wonder if you have tried getting with

the pain you are feeling? What have you got to lose? maybe instead of

running away from it you should run to it. Feel it, embrace it. And

if you try and say your not running away from it that is total BS.

Killing yourself is the ultimate in running away.

You say you will reincarnate into someone else and you want peace.

That's what people have been looking for since we became aware of our

pain. You say you want Peace, what could be more peaceful then

acceptance of what is? Peace is the total acceptance of your life

just the way it is. Not trying to change it, not trying to end it,

not trying to prolong it. Just being.

Why prolong finding peace into the next life, when you can do so

right now in this life. Why do you want to do it all again? What's

wrong with right now??????? Like I said what do you have to lose.

There are people right here that can help you find that peace, and

then maybe you can tell your mind to go to hell or heaven and leave

you here.

Greg

>

> Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

>

> Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

> >

> > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Greg, this is awesome. Thank you, you've given me some good things

to consider while I go through this process. I'll stay with your

words for a while as I continue to write.

thank you much,

sacred fool

> >

> > Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

> >

> > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

All I can say is that we've all had similar thoughts and feelings at

various times in our lives. We're all in this together.

>

> Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

>

> Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

Sacred Fool,

After reading through your website, I get the impression that you are

feeling depressed, angry and frustrated with the hurt that life has

caused you.

I assure you that every person on this forum has experienced similar

feelings at some time or another. Some of us experience them on a

daily basis.

The feelings themselves are neither right nor wrong. They just are.

They represent natural human reactions to the hardships of life.

They may not be pleasant or helpful to our lives, but they are there,

and they have a right to be there. We have to accept their

occurrence as feelings. But we do NOT have to accept the notion that

they represent the verdicts on our futures.

Regardless of what your thoughts might be telling you, there are

viable possibilities in front of you other than the grisly

possibility that your mind has advertised. Why not pursue those

other possibilities, just to see what happens?

Can you let your feelings of depression, anger, and frustation just

be there for a moment while you take real, concrete actions in the

world to improve your situation? Can you coexist with the unwanted

features of your life just long enough to give the principles of ACT

a try and start moving in a valued direction? If you can do these

things, you will learn lessons about yourself and about your life

that will literally transform you as a person. I sense that this

sort of transformation--rather than a death by suicide--is what you

really want.

Good luck, and please enlighten us on the specifics of your situation

so that we can offer you more help,

--

> > >

> > > Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

> > >

> > > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

> > >

> > > Thank you.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

> > > >

> > > > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

I have felt like this too SF...several times a week.

You have asked for help..and the only way I was helped or was able to

help myself was via a very deep level of self honesty.

I will temper that a little here, but will say this;

Your head is lying to you.

Its all up you...always was and will be.

Life is not fair or just, never was.

There is no dignity in death...only death.

If you really do want to die with dignity, love, grace, peace,

fortitude and hope, then why not try and live with those things for a

while and try them on for size...how else will you recognize them?

Do you really want to die or are you trying to live so hard its hurting?

In answering those last two - honestly - I gave myself time and

eventually, saved my own life.

wishing you well.

hariahinoz

[Guest guest]

Further to the sentiments you expressed hariahinoz - I often refer

back to the message expressed in the poem by Oliver ...

The Journey One day you finally knewwhat you had to do, and began,though the voices around youkept shoutingtheir bad advice --though the whole housebegan to trembleand you felt the old tugat your ankles."Mend my life!"each voice cried.But you didn't stop.You knew what you had to do,though the wind priedwith its stiff fingersat the very foundations,though their melancholywas terrible.It was already lateenough, and a wild night,and the road full of fallenbranches and stones.But little by little,as you left their voices behind,the stars began to burnthrough the sheets of clouds,and there was a new voicewhich you slowlyrecognized

as your own,that kept you companyas you strode deeper and deeperinto the world,determined to dothe only thing you could do --determined to savethe only life you could save.

Re: Help me die with Dignity

> > > > > > >> > > > Please check out: http://helpmedie. wordpress. com/> > > > > > > > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.> > > > > > > > Thank you.> > > >> > >> >>I have felt like this too SF...several times a week.You have asked for help..and the only way I was helped or was able tohelp myself was via a very deep level of self honesty. I will temper that a little here, but will say this;Your head is lying to you.Its all up

you...always was and will be.Life is not fair or just, never was.There is no dignity in death...only death.If you really do want to die with dignity, love, grace, peace,fortitude and hope, then why not try and live with those things for awhile and try them on for size...how else will you recognize them?Do you really want to die or are you trying to live so hard its hurting? In answering those last two - honestly - I gave myself time andeventually, saved my own life.wishing you well.hariahinoz

Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

" Everything has either a price or a dignity. Whatever

has a price can be replaced by something else as its

equivalent; on the other hand, whatever is above all

price, and therefore admits of no equivalent, has a

dignity. But that which constitutes the condition

under which alone something can be an end in itself

does not have mere relative worth, i.e., price, but an

intrinsic worth, i.e., a dignity. " (p. 53, italics in

original). Immanual Kant.

I will not say anything specific or try to talk you

out of anything--suffice it to say Kant and his

thinking have gained quite a lot of respect in modern

times espeicially in light of modern scientific

insights into non-local and virtual reality as

revealed by the science of physics. In short the

possibility grows that we humans are far more than the

superficial beings the mechanistic idealogues would

have us believe.

Mike

--- Katy Roe wrote:

> Further to the sentiments you expressed hariahinoz -

> I often refer

> back to the message expressed in the poem by

> Oliver ...

>

> The Journey

>

> One day you finally knew

> what you had to do, and began,

> though the voices around you

> kept shouting

> their bad advice --

> though the whole house

> began to tremble

> and you felt the old tug

> at your ankles.

> " Mend my life! "

> each voice cried.

> But you didn't stop.

> You knew what you had to do,

> though the wind pried

> with its stiff fingers

> at the very foundations,

> though their melancholy

> was terrible.

> It was already late

> enough, and a wild night,

> and the road full of fallen

> branches and stones.

> But little by little,

> as you left their voices behind,

> the stars began to burn

> through the sheets of clouds,

> and there was a new voice

> which you slowly

> recognized as your own,

> that kept you company

> as you strode deeper and deeper

> into the world,

> determined to do

> the only thing you could do --

> determined to save

> the only life you could save.

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Help me die with

> Dignity

>

>

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Please check out: http://helpmedie.

> wordpress. com/

> > > > >

> > > > > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just

> help me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> I have felt like this too SF...several times a week.

>

> You have asked for help..and the only way I was

> helped or was able to

> help myself was via a very deep level of self

> honesty.

>

> I will temper that a little here, but will say this;

>

> Your head is lying to you.

>

> Its all up you...always was and will be.

>

> Life is not fair or just, never was.

>

> There is no dignity in death...only death.

>

> If you really do want to die with dignity, love,

> grace, peace,

> fortitude and hope, then why not try and live with

> those things for a

> while and try them on for size...how else will you

> recognize them?

>

> Do you really want to die or are you trying to live

> so hard its hurting?

>

> In answering those last two - honestly - I gave

> myself time and

> eventually, saved my own life.

>

> wishing you well.

>

> hariahinoz

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________

> Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox

> http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

>

Mike C.

No man is free who is not master of himself.

Epictetus (55 AD - 135 AD)

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

Powerful. I appreciate the food for thought.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please check out: http://helpmedie.

> > wordpress. com/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just

> > help me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > I have felt like this too SF...several times a week.

> >

> > You have asked for help..and the only way I was

> > helped or was able to

> > help myself was via a very deep level of self

> > honesty.

> >

> > I will temper that a little here, but will say this;

> >

> > Your head is lying to you.

> >

> > Its all up you...always was and will be.

> >

> > Life is not fair or just, never was.

> >

> > There is no dignity in death...only death.

> >

> > If you really do want to die with dignity, love,

> > grace, peace,

> > fortitude and hope, then why not try and live with

> > those things for a

> > while and try them on for size...how else will you

> > recognize them?

> >

> > Do you really want to die or are you trying to live

> > so hard its hurting?

> >

> > In answering those last two - honestly - I gave

> > myself time and

> > eventually, saved my own life.

> >

> > wishing you well.

> >

> > hariahinoz

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> __________________________________________________________

> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox

> > http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

> >

>

>

>

> Mike C.

>

>

> No man is free who is not master of himself.

> Epictetus (55 AD - 135 AD)

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

[Guest guest]

" If you really do want to die with dignity, love, grace, peace,

fortitude and hope, then why not try and live with those things for a

while and try them on for size...how else will you recognize them? "

This question really hits home for me, hariahinoz. Thank you. I

have suffered a tremendous deal because I have tried so hard to live,

indeed, with these virtues, but have come up short. I have lived

with very little dignity, love, grace and peace. I have had quite a

messy life, thanks to my own shortcomings. Finding compassion for

msyelf may be beyond me at this point, Nevertheless, your question

is haunting, and I will stay with it for a while. Thank you!

Arjuna

> > > > >

> > > > > Please check out: http://helpmedie.wordpress.com/

> > > > >

> > > > > Please don't try to talk me out of it. Just help me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> I have felt like this too SF...several times a week.

>

> You have asked for help..and the only way I was helped or was able

to

> help myself was via a very deep level of self honesty.

>

> I will temper that a little here, but will say this;

>

>

> Your head is lying to you.

>

> Its all up you...always was and will be.

>

> Life is not fair or just, never was.

>

> There is no dignity in death...only death.

>

>

> If you really do want to die with dignity, love, grace, peace,

> fortitude and hope, then why not try and live with those things for

a

> while and try them on for size...how else will you recognize them?

>

> Do you really want to die or are you trying to live so hard its

hurting?

>

>

> In answering those last two - honestly - I gave myself time and

> eventually, saved my own life.

>

>

> wishing you well.

>

>

>

>

> hariahinoz

>

[Guest guest]

In this short youtube video, mindfulness master Eckhart Tolle ("The Power of Now") speaks on a topic that I believe relates to this conversation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugWiDv17Yg & feature=related

Namaste'

[Guest guest]

In this short youtube video, mindfulness master Eckhart Tolle ( " The Power of Now " ) speaks on a topic that I believe relates to this conversation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugWiDv17Yg & feature=related <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugWiDv17Yg & amp;feature=related>

Namaste'

-----------

I enjoyed seeing that, . Thanks much for sharing that!

ACT is new to me, though mindfulness per se is not, and I am just soaking it all in.

My 2 cents worth on the topic of ending a life, is simply a few considerations from my own experience, for what it’s worth.... First, at a time when I discussed my own deep pain and thoughts of suicide, many years ago, with a therapist, it all became food for thought for me. I remember him telling me about clients he’d had who reported to him, years later, that they were awfully glad that they had not followed through on suicide (or their attempts went awry and they were grateful), because of various later positive outcomes. That struck me, personally, as an important piece of my puzzle. I decided that I’d never know how my life would end up turning out if I did not see it through, even though I was excruciatingly tired of my suffering.

Second, I concluded----again, for myself----that if life was indeed a continuity of consciousness, whether here in my body and present personality, or “elsewhere” in any other form, then I would likely be dragging my thoughts and feelings along with me in the “hereafter!” I felt absolutely trapped by that, but it also reinforced the idea that perhaps I’d better just suck it up and deal with WHATEVER in the here and now. I can’t be sure, but I’m sensing that starting over in a some new life won’t entirely free me or anyone from the consciousness I carry. (Damn! LOL)

Lastly, I relate to the poster (Was it Arjuna? Sorry I’m not recalling!) in having had a background of learning and teaching as described. I had intended to be a minister with a “new thought” church, but did not do so because I could not serve as anyone’s model of well-being, by any stretch of the imagination. It was a most painful, life-altering sadness I felt to realize that my former upbeat, supposedly knowledgeable self could be so beat up and disillusioned. It all seemed like a sham....

Yet, I find value in new ways of being-----despite it all. I’m learning in a whole new way.

Pat

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

For me it is true also -- I believe that ending my life would not

relieve me from the pain of living, and of having to eventually turn

and face my own creations so-to-speak, in some other incarnation, or

other reality. If I thought it would be an end to my problems,

suicide would be a foregone conclusion given my own circumstances.

But as Eckhart so astutely points out, the future is merely an

abstraction - to think that by putting off and denying the pain, a

better future will manifest (whether in this life or some other), is

simply an illusion. The pain, and the miscreations, will only

increase in their intensity until we turn and face the self in all

it's madness.

The pain of identification with our stories, I think is especially

troublesome when we don't have some other person or circumstance that

is obviously " to blame " . Dis-identifying is difficult when it seems

clear that we are really the only one responsible for our failures in

life, for the great humiliation the ego suffers (compared to the pain

of abuse by an offender - but not to diminish this pain either). When

it feels ultimately that there is nothing left, it seems unbearable --

I know this place quite intimately.

Yet, as Arjuna points out, it is indeed a choice - to end one's life

or not.

Namaste'

>

> Second, I concluded----again, for myself----that if life was indeed a

> continuity of consciousness, whether here in my body and present

> personality, or ³elsewhere² in any other form, then I would likely be

> dragging my thoughts and feelings along with me in the ³hereafter!²

I felt

> absolutely trapped by that, but it also reinforced the idea that

perhaps I¹d

> better just suck it up and deal with WHATEVER in the here and now.

I can¹t

> be sure, but I¹m sensing that starting over in a some new life won¹t

> entirely free me or anyone from the consciousness I carry. (Damn! LOL)

>

> Lastly, I relate to the poster (Was it Arjuna? Sorry I¹m not

recalling!) in

> having had a background of learning and teaching as described. I had

> intended to be a minister with a ³new thought² church, but did not

do so

> because I could not serve as anyone¹s model of well-being, by any

stretch of

> the imagination. It was a most painful, life-altering sadness I felt to

> realize that my former upbeat, supposedly knowledgeable self could be so

> beat up and disillusioned. It all seemed like a sham....

>

> Yet, I find value in new ways of being-----despite it all. I¹m

learning in

> a whole new way.

>

> Pat

>

[Guest guest]

Very Good! Tolle was suicidal, quite suicidal before

he woke up. Being in the depths has been an

oppurtunity for many souls. See also l's 'Man's

search for Meaning. "

Mike C.

--- wrote:

> In this short youtube video, mindfulness master

> Eckhart Tolle ( " The Power of

> Now " ) speaks on a topic that I believe relates to

> this conversation:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugWiDv17Yg

>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugWiDv17Yg & feature=related>

> & feature=related

>

> Namaste'

>

>

Mike C.

No man is free who is not master of himself.

Epictetus (55 AD - 135 AD)

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

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[Guest guest]

> Very Good! Tolle was suicidal, quite suicidal before

> he woke up.

I believe this was the case with many awakened beings - Byron

( " The Work " ) for example. She suffered severe suicidal depression and

didn't get out of bed for a couple of years.

I personally feel this is quite significant, yet it is often

diminished by even these teachers themselves, who mainly go on to

provide a description of the awakened state. It seems to me that they

were able to attain this state because they became intimately familiar

with their own darkness. And of course, most people will go on

avoiding their darkness for as long as possible -- until things start

to fall apart, and the personality can no longer sufficiently patch

the self together again.

In my experience, we cannot transcend, dis-identify or " defuse " (as in

ACT) from our thoughts, until we make a conscious (energetic as

opposed to intellectual) connection with them. In addition to many of

the processes in ACT, I've found the techniques in " voice dialog " as

developed by Hal & Sidra Stone to be particularly valuable in

reclaiming dis-owned parts so that they may then be dis-identified

with. An adaptation of voice dialog is the " Big Mind " process taught

be Genpo Roshi, which has also been helpful to me.

With many teachings, including " The Work " , it can be easy to fool

oneself into believing one merely need recognize these energies in the

self, make the connection, and then the expectation arises that they

will no longer create problems. Of course, we know that is not true.

I'm not saying I think these methods are without value, I just think

that they can lead to further repression if the " student " is not

diligent and aware in their approach.

~

[Guest guest]

A great post and I definitely agree with you here.

>

> > Very Good! Tolle was suicidal, quite suicidal before

> > he woke up.

>

> I believe this was the case with many awakened beings - Byron

> ( " The Work " ) for example. She suffered severe suicidal depression

and

> didn't get out of bed for a couple of years.

>

> I personally feel this is quite significant, yet it is often

> diminished by even these teachers themselves, who mainly go on to

> provide a description of the awakened state. It seems to me that

they

> were able to attain this state because they became intimately

familiar

> with their own darkness. And of course, most people will go on

> avoiding their darkness for as long as possible -- until things

start

> to fall apart, and the personality can no longer sufficiently patch

> the self together again.

>

> In my experience, we cannot transcend, dis-identify or " defuse " (as

in

> ACT) from our thoughts, until we make a conscious (energetic as

> opposed to intellectual) connection with them. In addition to many

of

> the processes in ACT, I've found the techniques in " voice dialog " as

> developed by Hal & Sidra Stone to be particularly valuable in

> reclaiming dis-owned parts so that they may then be dis-identified

> with. An adaptation of voice dialog is the " Big Mind " process

taught

> be Genpo Roshi, which has also been helpful to me.

>

> With many teachings, including " The Work " , it can be easy to fool

> oneself into believing one merely need recognize these energies in

the

> self, make the connection, and then the expectation arises that they

> will no longer create problems. Of course, we know that is not true.

> I'm not saying I think these methods are without value, I just think

> that they can lead to further repression if the " student " is not

> diligent and aware in their approach.

>

> ~

>

[Guest guest]

> that they can lead to further repression if the " student " is not

> diligent and aware in their approach.

....and I might add " extremely patient " - distorted emotions will heal,

but in their own sweet time (my sense is that they truly have a mind

of their own)! I think it's can be misleading sometimes when people

consider that certain indivduals had a spontaneous, more or less

permanent awakening -- as if this is what could or should happen to

us. Even Eckhart makes this point in another of his youtube videos --

that it is very rare to experience instant awakening -- I believe he

says in his cute little accent, " one has to have suffered dreadfully! "

in order for this to happen. I think most of us must content ourselves

with making gradual progress towards greater clarity and authenticity

as we reclaim more and more of ourselves over time -- perhaps a very

long time.

~