Re: Feeling Blue

April 26, 2006

I sympathize - I too have days in which the pit I have dug seems the

only reality. I have a suggestion or two, which you can weigh against

your own experience to see if they make sense.

When I am very " depressed, " I find myself thinking, " Well, here I am

accepting my depression, but it isn't helping - it still hurts. " But

then if I remember a bit more about what I have learned on the days

that ACT *has* helped, I realize that what I am thinking of as

" accepting " in the current situation is probably " resisting. "

In other words, for me, the state of feeling depressed and (thinking

I'm depressed, too) is really a form of avoidance.

What am I resisting? The answer seems to be emotional pain of some

other sort. My mind does not want to feel that pain and so instead I

feel " depressed. " Even the belief that " nothing really matters " is a

clever form of avoidance by my mind.

So much for theory. When I feel this way, what can I actually do about

it?

I have found that one helpful technique is to let go and *really* let

myself feel everything that I am feeling - including whatever it is I

may be avoiding. Normally when I am feeling depressed, I am constantly

telling myself how horrible it is, how miserable I am, etc. But this

self-talk is just more emotional anaesthesia.

The alternative is to let myself go - to surrender completely for a

limited period of time. This isn't something I can do at the workplace

- as you say, we have to stay productive in such settings - but it

*is* something I can do at home, in private.

My form of surrender is to sit as if I were going to meditate, and get

present with my body just as I would in meditation. I start with a

body scan, taking my time and not rushing it. I explore every

millimeter of my aching throat, my numb heart, etc. I want to feel

whatever is there, even as my mind keeps chattering away that it's no

use, it doesn't make any sense, etc.

Once I've gotten present with my body, I then ask myself if I'm

willing to surrender to whatever else may be present. I don't mean

surrender in the sense of " believing, " but in the sense, again, of

dropping any defenses I have against feeling fully whatever emotional

pain is in me. I don't know what those defenses are at a conscious

level. And I can't know what pain I will or won't find - maybe it will

be like pain I've felt before, maybe not. Surrender means doing

something without knowing what will happen, but trusting that it won't

hurt you worse than you can stand.

I've borrowed this approach from two sources: First, a small book on

Zen meditation called " Being Zen, " by Ezra Bayda, and second, from a

passage in the " Get Out of Your Mind " workbook where the authors talk

about working with a deeply distressed client who had just gotten

divorced, was broke, had no job skills, etc. She was at a complete low

point, in terrible pain - and terrified of experiencing that pain. If

you have a copy of the workbook, it's on page 136.

Here's a quote from that section: " The patient felt such terrible

loneliness that she believed that if she willingly allowed herself to

feel its far-reaching effects, she would be destroyed by its intensity

.... In a therapy session, my colleague and I asked if she would allow

herself to feel her loneliness, and she kept saying no until we got

her down to agree to be fully willing for one second. She agreed to

feel openly and without defense for one second. That was a start. "

The woman stopped therapy a few months later. But the authors go on to

say that years later, they ran into her again and by this time she had

gotten a degree, a job, friends, a partner, etc. She had turned her

life around by being willing to feel her pain to its fullest extent,

starting with a little at a time.

I find this story inspirational. My own experience is that very often

a deeper pain lies beneath the numbness and misery I feel on the

surface. Getting present with that pain isn't so much about catharisis

as it is about learning a process - the process of being naked and

real rather than attempting to shield myself.

I still experience depressive feelings and thoughts. And on some days

I am back in my familiar pit. But I seem to be getting a little better

on a routine basis at noticing when I'm uncomfortable and realizing

I don't *have* to push that discomfort away. There is an alternative.

Hope this helps. And if I've said anything incorrect in ACT terms, I

hope someone else will step in and correct me.

>

> I've been having some success with ACT (although I'm not sure what

> I'm basing that on, since it's not about " feeling better, " I guess I

> just feel more freedom), but right now I'm really struggling. I

> knew when I hit one of my low lows it'd be a real test. Now, here I

> am. Very depressed, sad, empty, everything feels completely

> meaningless. My heart feels like its breaking for no reason at

> all. I think about ACT and think " what does that mean? " Part of my

> depression has always been the mental mud that accompanies it.

> Right now I can't even think of how to apply ACT. The most I know

> to do is to not resist my feelings and not buy into my thoughts.

> And I'm doing okay I guess at not resisting or avoiding, but it's

> hard to feel this way at work. I can't really sit and cry, I have

> to at least put up a front of being productive. And I worry about

> that aspect of ACT with depression because I know from past

> experience that depression can be self-perpetuating, that allowing

> myself to " give in " to my depression has made me spiral deeper and

> deeper into it and that the more depressed episodes one has the more

> likely they are to have more. I know there's a difference between

> ACT and giving in to my depression but honestly I can't see it right

> now. I really need some help (although I'm also really hoping by

> the time it comes I'll no longer feel this way). And I guess I'm

> acting in accordance with my values by reaching out when it goes

> against every grain of my being to put an email like this out on a

> very public level. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.

>

April 26, 2006

Sounds right on the money to me.

One thing I would like to point out about " feeling this way at work "

You can feel that way at work and still put on the so called front

of being productive. The way I look at it is if you sat there and

cried you would be giving into to the pain, By going to work and

doing what you need to do, while feeling that way, is acceptence.

That is not avoiding life, that is living life. If you did stay home

and sat around and cried, that would be avoiding life, that would be

listening to the passengers on the bus.

The question you have to ask is " can I feel this way and still live

my life in a valued direction " ? If the answer is Yes then get out

and live your life, if those feelings want to come along then great,

bring them with you. If not then they will be missing out, not you!

One other thing, I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling

better. Just becareful of how you evaluate that thought. It is just

a thought afterall, not good, not bad, just a thought.

Just a thought,

Greg

- In ACT_for_the_Public , " usable_thought "

wrote:

>

> I sympathize - I too have days in which the pit I have dug seems

the

> only reality. I have a suggestion or two, which you can weigh

against

> your own experience to see if they make sense.

>

> When I am very " depressed, " I find myself thinking, " Well, here I

am

> accepting my depression, but it isn't helping - it still hurts. "

But

> then if I remember a bit more about what I have learned on the days

> that ACT *has* helped, I realize that what I am thinking of as

> " accepting " in the current situation is probably " resisting. "

>

> In other words, for me, the state of feeling depressed and

(thinking

> I'm depressed, too) is really a form of avoidance.

>

> What am I resisting? The answer seems to be emotional pain of some

> other sort. My mind does not want to feel that pain and so instead

I

> feel " depressed. " Even the belief that " nothing really matters " is

a

> clever form of avoidance by my mind.

>

> So much for theory. When I feel this way, what can I actually do

about

> it?

>

> I have found that one helpful technique is to let go and *really*

let

> myself feel everything that I am feeling - including whatever it

is I

> may be avoiding. Normally when I am feeling depressed, I am

constantly

> telling myself how horrible it is, how miserable I am, etc. But

this

> self-talk is just more emotional anaesthesia.

>

> The alternative is to let myself go - to surrender completely for a

> limited period of time. This isn't something I can do at the

workplace

> - as you say, we have to stay productive in such settings - but it

> *is* something I can do at home, in private.

>

> My form of surrender is to sit as if I were going to meditate, and

get

> present with my body just as I would in meditation. I start with a

> body scan, taking my time and not rushing it. I explore every

> millimeter of my aching throat, my numb heart, etc. I want to feel

> whatever is there, even as my mind keeps chattering away that it's

no

> use, it doesn't make any sense, etc.

>

> Once I've gotten present with my body, I then ask myself if I'm

> willing to surrender to whatever else may be present. I don't mean

> surrender in the sense of " believing, " but in the sense, again, of

> dropping any defenses I have against feeling fully whatever

emotional

> pain is in me. I don't know what those defenses are at a conscious

> level. And I can't know what pain I will or won't find - maybe it

will

> be like pain I've felt before, maybe not. Surrender means doing

> something without knowing what will happen, but trusting that it

won't

> hurt you worse than you can stand.

>

> I've borrowed this approach from two sources: First, a small book

on

> Zen meditation called " Being Zen, " by Ezra Bayda, and second, from

a

> passage in the " Get Out of Your Mind " workbook where the authors

talk

> about working with a deeply distressed client who had just gotten

> divorced, was broke, had no job skills, etc. She was at a complete

low

> point, in terrible pain - and terrified of experiencing that pain.

If

> you have a copy of the workbook, it's on page 136.

>

> Here's a quote from that section: " The patient felt such terrible

> loneliness that she believed that if she willingly allowed herself

to

> feel its far-reaching effects, she would be destroyed by its

intensity

> ... In a therapy session, my colleague and I asked if she would

allow

> herself to feel her loneliness, and she kept saying no until we got

> her down to agree to be fully willing for one second. She agreed to

> feel openly and without defense for one second. That was a start. "

>

> The woman stopped therapy a few months later. But the authors go

on to

> say that years later, they ran into her again and by this time she

had

> gotten a degree, a job, friends, a partner, etc. She had turned her

> life around by being willing to feel her pain to its fullest

extent,

> starting with a little at a time.

>

> I find this story inspirational. My own experience is that very

often

> a deeper pain lies beneath the numbness and misery I feel on the

> surface. Getting present with that pain isn't so much about

catharisis

> as it is about learning a process - the process of being naked and

> real rather than attempting to shield myself.

>

> I still experience depressive feelings and thoughts. And on some

days

> I am back in my familiar pit. But I seem to be getting a little

better

> on a routine basis at noticing when I'm uncomfortable and realizing

> I don't *have* to push that discomfort away. There is an

alternative.

>

> Hope this helps. And if I've said anything incorrect in ACT terms,

I

> hope someone else will step in and correct me.

>

> >

> > I've been having some success with ACT (although I'm not sure

what

> > I'm basing that on, since it's not about " feeling better, " I

guess I

> > just feel more freedom), but right now I'm really struggling. I

> > knew when I hit one of my low lows it'd be a real test. Now,

here I

> > am. Very depressed, sad, empty, everything feels completely

> > meaningless. My heart feels like its breaking for no reason at

> > all. I think about ACT and think " what does that mean? " Part

of my

> > depression has always been the mental mud that accompanies it.

> > Right now I can't even think of how to apply ACT. The most I

know

> > to do is to not resist my feelings and not buy into my

thoughts.

> > And I'm doing okay I guess at not resisting or avoiding, but

it's

> > hard to feel this way at work. I can't really sit and cry, I

have

> > to at least put up a front of being productive. And I worry

about

> > that aspect of ACT with depression because I know from past

> > experience that depression can be self-perpetuating, that

allowing

> > myself to " give in " to my depression has made me spiral deeper

and

> > deeper into it and that the more depressed episodes one has the

more

> > likely they are to have more. I know there's a difference

between

> > ACT and giving in to my depression but honestly I can't see it

right

> > now. I really need some help (although I'm also really hoping

by

> > the time it comes I'll no longer feel this way). And I guess

I'm

> > acting in accordance with my values by reaching out when it goes

> > against every grain of my being to put an email like this out on

a

> > very public level. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or

advice.

> >

>

April 27, 2006

Hi, Irene.

> reaching out when it goes against every grain of my being

> to put an email like this out on a very public level.

Yeah. It's even worse *replying* to someone. It's like a non-lawyer

posting legal advice on Alan Dershowitz's blog. ;-)

> I know from past experience that depression can be self-

> perpetuating, that allowing myself to " give in " to my

> depression has made me spiral deeper and deeper into

> it and that the more depressed episodes one has the

> more likely they are to have more. I know there's a

> difference between ACT and giving in to my depression

> but honestly I can't see it right now.

I think I understand what you describe about being afraid to " give

in " to a depressive episode. Last week I posted about episodes that

can overwhelm me, spiraling downward, as you say, into what for me is

like physical paralysis.

I think (for me) accepting depression or making " full contact " with

it can sometimes mean spiraling downward into that

incapacitating " crash " — but I think that's only true at one level of

awareness of the feelings I'm making contact with. Thanks to some

help I got here, I have begun to see that there's a lot more detail

and a lot more going on in what I thought was just a massive,

homogenous block of depression.

With greater mindful awareness of my whole experience in my worst

depressive episodes, I'm now seeing that they don't really overwhelm

or fully incapacitate me. Even during the most painful, full-out,

deathlike depression, there are these air pockets or veins of

consciousness where the " Observer Me " is free to maneuver.

And that awareness is a start. It puts a little more space between me

and the spiraling " self-perpetuating " feelings of deep depression. I

had to explore all this from memory, since I haven't been hit that

hard lately, but it seems possible now for me to fully have & accept

the feeling of total depression AND remain vertical and working.

So maybe, with greater awareness, fully accepting depression for you

would not have to be the same thing as sitting down and bawling?

From my new standpoint, " giving in " to my depression (lying down in a

crushing paralysis) could now be an avoidance move, like

usable_thought suggests, although it wouldn't have been avoidance for

me before I realized that I had a choice. Does that make sense?

For me, it helped to first start noticing more about the " wiggle

room " between resisting a deep depressive crash that's imminent and

giving in to it.

If this doesn't make sense, I apologize. Please feel free to follow

up, if you want. This is very tricky stuff to talk about. And of

course my experience may not be helpful to you. Thanks for reading.

April 27, 2006

I loved everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

Here's my two cents about the workplace ...

In my own personal pain experience, I developed a lot of " rules "

about how I could or could not behave at work. We all grew up with

those TV adds " Never let them see you sweat. " And the concept of

having to hold up a professional front took a really big toll on my

physical body.

With ACT I am trying to give myself a little more wiggle room. For

me it doesn't mean telling people at work anything about my personal

pain story. Because I'm not looking for them to listen, comfort or

sympathize. I'm at work, and I want to keep this professional and

productive.

But what " professional and productive " LOOKS LIKE has changed for me

with ACT. Take for instance earlier this week. I had a big board

meeting ... AND my body felt awful. (All the familiar sensations of

a really big crash, waves of tearfullness, racing, adrenaline,

shaking ... all my stuff.) But instead of trying to cover any of

it ... I walked into the meeting smiled and turned to one of the

board members and said " my body is having a flare today, just ignore

anything it does. " And then I smiled and looked him right in the

eyes. I spent the next two hours, shaking, twitching and yes even

left twice briefly to cry in a nearby room. But my voice did not

reflect anything that my body was doing. I was still able to speak

clearly and make the presentations that I needed to do. I was

funny, witty and my contribution was valuable. But my " body " still

was in full blown flair for the entire meeting (actually it kept on

rolling for another three hours even after it ended.)

I never would have allowed myself to " look vulnerable " before I read

the workbook. And I honestly have no idea what people " thought "

about these odd body movements and behaviors. But it's likely that

whatever they were thinking it had more to do with their own story

than about my own personal pain.

So what happens if I have tears fall down my cheek AND I am still

participating fully at work? I can still smile or even wink at

someone to let them know that " I am OK " even though I may look

otherwise.

I'd really like to say that allowing myself or my body to just

be ... made it easier, or that it made the pain less, or that I'm SO

looking forward to the next board meeting. But it didn't, it wasn't

and no I can't really say that yet. But after carrying around that

image of the pain in my head (which I still have in my purse) I am

beginning to be more open to the idea of taking my pain anywhere it

is that I have to go.

~EM

> >

> > I sympathize - I too have days in which the pit I have dug seems

> the

> > only reality. I have a suggestion or two, which you can weigh

> against

> > your own experience to see if they make sense.

> >

> > When I am very " depressed, " I find myself thinking, " Well, here

I

> am

> > accepting my depression, but it isn't helping - it still hurts. "

> But

> > then if I remember a bit more about what I have learned on the

days

> > that ACT *has* helped, I realize that what I am thinking of as

> > " accepting " in the current situation is probably " resisting. "

> >

> > In other words, for me, the state of feeling depressed and

> (thinking

> > I'm depressed, too) is really a form of avoidance.

> >

> > What am I resisting? The answer seems to be emotional pain of

some

> > other sort. My mind does not want to feel that pain and so

instead

> I

> > feel " depressed. " Even the belief that " nothing really matters "

is

> a

> > clever form of avoidance by my mind.

> >

> > So much for theory. When I feel this way, what can I actually do

> about

> > it?

> >

> > I have found that one helpful technique is to let go and

*really*

> let

> > myself feel everything that I am feeling - including whatever it

> is I

> > may be avoiding. Normally when I am feeling depressed, I am

> constantly

> > telling myself how horrible it is, how miserable I am, etc. But

> this

> > self-talk is just more emotional anaesthesia.

> >

> > The alternative is to let myself go - to surrender completely

for a

> > limited period of time. This isn't something I can do at the

> workplace

> > - as you say, we have to stay productive in such settings - but

it

> > *is* something I can do at home, in private.

> >

> > My form of surrender is to sit as if I were going to meditate,

and

> get

> > present with my body just as I would in meditation. I start with

a

> > body scan, taking my time and not rushing it. I explore every

> > millimeter of my aching throat, my numb heart, etc. I want to

feel

> > whatever is there, even as my mind keeps chattering away that

it's

> no

> > use, it doesn't make any sense, etc.

> >

> > Once I've gotten present with my body, I then ask myself if I'm

> > willing to surrender to whatever else may be present. I don't

mean

> > surrender in the sense of " believing, " but in the sense, again,

of

> > dropping any defenses I have against feeling fully whatever

> emotional

> > pain is in me. I don't know what those defenses are at a

conscious

> > level. And I can't know what pain I will or won't find - maybe

it

> will

> > be like pain I've felt before, maybe not. Surrender means doing

> > something without knowing what will happen, but trusting that it

> won't

> > hurt you worse than you can stand.

> >

> > I've borrowed this approach from two sources: First, a small

book

> on

> > Zen meditation called " Being Zen, " by Ezra Bayda, and second,

from

> a

> > passage in the " Get Out of Your Mind " workbook where the authors

> talk

> > about working with a deeply distressed client who had just gotten

> > divorced, was broke, had no job skills, etc. She was at a

complete

> low

> > point, in terrible pain - and terrified of experiencing that

pain.

> If

> > you have a copy of the workbook, it's on page 136.

> >

> > Here's a quote from that section: " The patient felt such terrible

> > loneliness that she believed that if she willingly allowed

herself

> to

> > feel its far-reaching effects, she would be destroyed by its

> intensity

> > ... In a therapy session, my colleague and I asked if she would

> allow

> > herself to feel her loneliness, and she kept saying no until we

got

> > her down to agree to be fully willing for one second. She agreed

to

> > feel openly and without defense for one second. That was a

start. "

> >

> > The woman stopped therapy a few months later. But the authors go

> on to

> > say that years later, they ran into her again and by this time

she

> had

> > gotten a degree, a job, friends, a partner, etc. She had turned

her

> > life around by being willing to feel her pain to its fullest

> extent,

> > starting with a little at a time.

> >

> > I find this story inspirational. My own experience is that very

> often

> > a deeper pain lies beneath the numbness and misery I feel on the

> > surface. Getting present with that pain isn't so much about

> catharisis

> > as it is about learning a process - the process of being naked

and

> > real rather than attempting to shield myself.

> >

> > I still experience depressive feelings and thoughts. And on some

> days

> > I am back in my familiar pit. But I seem to be getting a little

> better

> > on a routine basis at noticing when I'm uncomfortable and

realizing

> > I don't *have* to push that discomfort away. There is an

> alternative.

> >

> > Hope this helps. And if I've said anything incorrect in ACT

terms,

> I

> > hope someone else will step in and correct me.

> >

> > >

> > > I've been having some success with ACT (although I'm not sure

> what

> > > I'm basing that on, since it's not about " feeling better, " I

> guess I

> > > just feel more freedom), but right now I'm really struggling.

I

> > > knew when I hit one of my low lows it'd be a real test. Now,

> here I

> > > am. Very depressed, sad, empty, everything feels completely

> > > meaningless. My heart feels like its breaking for no reason

at

> > > all. I think about ACT and think " what does that mean? " Part

> of my

> > > depression has always been the mental mud that accompanies

it.

> > > Right now I can't even think of how to apply ACT. The most I

> know

> > > to do is to not resist my feelings and not buy into my

> thoughts.

> > > And I'm doing okay I guess at not resisting or avoiding, but

> it's

> > > hard to feel this way at work. I can't really sit and cry, I

> have

> > > to at least put up a front of being productive. And I worry

> about

> > > that aspect of ACT with depression because I know from past

> > > experience that depression can be self-perpetuating, that

> allowing

> > > myself to " give in " to my depression has made me spiral deeper

> and

> > > deeper into it and that the more depressed episodes one has

the

> more

> > > likely they are to have more. I know there's a difference

> between

> > > ACT and giving in to my depression but honestly I can't see it

> right

> > > now. I really need some help (although I'm also really hoping

> by

> > > the time it comes I'll no longer feel this way). And I guess

> I'm

> > > acting in accordance with my values by reaching out when it

goes

> > > against every grain of my being to put an email like this out

on

> a

> > > very public level. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or

> advice.

> > >

> >

>

April 27, 2006

I don't know how ACT canon this is but from my personal experience...

When I 'give in' to depression, I obsess about the negative, have anxious

thoughts about how 'being depressed' will affect my life, get angry that 'I

can't just be happy', tell myself that I'm a broken human being, mentally

beat myself up about my failures and inadequacies, etc, but I don't really

just acknowledge the way I'm feeling.

If I just mindfully accept, 'I'm feeling very, very down right now.' then

that tends to be where it ends. And maybe I realize something along the

lines of 'Well, it's been a long day' or 'I'm not feeling very good about a

situation at work.' but I don't let my 'mind' run all over me with negative

judgements and dire predictions.

I guess I see a difference between accepting the way you're feeling and

letting your mind continue to generate negativity or, as you put it well,

'mental mud'. I try to distinguish between what I'm feeling and what my

mind is extrapolating from the way I'm feeling (like 'I'm depressed so I'm

going to ruin my life').

Maybe this isn't real willingness and canon ACT is stoically listening to it

all, but I don't see allowing myself to dwell in 'mental mud' furthering my

goals or benefitting myself or others in any way. I'm sure I could

masochistically insult myself all day, but my interpretation of the 'C' part

is that I have other things to do. I guess I see accepting that my mind can

and does churn out certain thoughts doesn't mean I have to listen too them

all.

- Emma

>

>Reply-To: ACT_for_the_Public

>To: ACT_for_the_Public

>Subject: Feeling Blue

>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:02:53 -0000

>

>I've been having some success with ACT (although I'm not sure what

>I'm basing that on, since it's not about " feeling better, " I guess I

>just feel more freedom), but right now I'm really struggling. I

>knew when I hit one of my low lows it'd be a real test. Now, here I

>am. Very depressed, sad, empty, everything feels completely

>meaningless. My heart feels like its breaking for no reason at

>all. I think about ACT and think " what does that mean? " Part of my

>depression has always been the mental mud that accompanies it.

>Right now I can't even think of how to apply ACT. The most I know

>to do is to not resist my feelings and not buy into my thoughts.

>And I'm doing okay I guess at not resisting or avoiding, but it's

>hard to feel this way at work. I can't really sit and cry, I have

>to at least put up a front of being productive. And I worry about

>that aspect of ACT with depression because I know from past

>experience that depression can be self-perpetuating, that allowing

>myself to " give in " to my depression has made me spiral deeper and

>deeper into it and that the more depressed episodes one has the more

>likely they are to have more. I know there's a difference between

>ACT and giving in to my depression but honestly I can't see it right

>now. I really need some help (although I'm also really hoping by

>the time it comes I'll no longer feel this way). And I guess I'm

>acting in accordance with my values by reaching out when it goes

>against every grain of my being to put an email like this out on a

>very public level. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.

>

April 27, 2006

Thanks to all who responded. Yes, everything that was said made completesense (scary). I feel blessed to be a part of this group with such smart andhelpful people who I know can relate to what I'm talking about. For me justknowing I'm not alone is a huge relief. Fortunately I am feeling better today(the monkey's off my back, the circus is still in town), but I printed out youremails so that the next time I fall into the abyss and my mind turns to mush Iwill have something to refer to. I actually have done some exploration along thelines of what was suggested. In fact the same section of the book that Rreferred to was one that I recently practiced when I was suffering with anxietyand it was very helpful. One of the greatest things I get from ACT is theempowerment of just not backing down from feelings that have debilitated me inthe past.

I love the idea that the state of being depressed is a form of avoidance. Andeven before I knew about ACT I practiced the technique of just putting on my"depression jacket" and going about my life with the inside of my head feelinglike a dipsy dumpster and learned that no one really knew what was going oninside my head and that going about my life kept me from spiraling further. So Iguess when I say "giving in to my depression" what I mean is allowing it to keepme from living which is a form of avoidance. There are some days thoughwhen going about your life feels like climbing Mt. Everest, arms heavy, minddull, etc. but that is the ACTion right there, doing it anyway. This is all alot clearer today than it was yesterday although even yesterday I think I knewall this and the bottom line is (and I come up against this time and again): Ijust don't want to feel this way, I don't want to sit with it, exploreit, wriggle around in it, I want it to go away. I guess what I want is reallyjust another thought that I need to acknowledge and send to the back of the bus.What I'm learning and I hope will someday become second nature to me is the onlyway out is through. Thanks again for all your input.

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf OfearthmtherSent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:48 AMTo:ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re:Feeling Blue

I loved everyone's thoughts and suggestions.Here's my two centsabout the workplace ...In my own personal pain experience, I developeda lot of "rules" about how I could or could not behave at work. Weall grew up with those TV adds "Never let them see you sweat." Andthe concept of having to hold up a professional front took a really bigtoll on my physical body.With ACT I am trying to give myself alittle more wiggle room. For me it doesn't mean telling people atwork anything about my personal pain story. Because I'm not lookingfor them to listen, comfort or sympathize. I'm at work, and I wantto keep this professional and productive. But what"professional and productive" LOOKS LIKE has changed for me withACT. Take for instance earlier this week. I had a big boardmeeting ... AND my body felt awful. (All the familiar sensations ofa really big crash, waves of tearfullness, racing, adrenaline, shaking... all my stuff.) But instead of trying to cover any of it ... Iwalked into the meeting smiled and turned to one of the board members andsaid "my body is having a flare today, just ignore anything itdoes." And then I smiled and looked him right in the eyes. Ispent the next two hours, shaking, twitching and yes even left twicebriefly to cry in a nearby room. But my voice did not reflectanything that my body was doing. I was still able to speak clearlyand make the presentations that I needed to do. I was funny, wittyand my contribution was valuable. But my "body" still was in fullblown flair for the entire meeting (actually it kept on rolling foranother three hours even after it ended.)I never would have allowedmyself to "look vulnerable" before I read the workbook. And Ihonestly have no idea what people "thought" about these odd body movementsand behaviors. But it's likely that whatever they were thinking ithad more to do with their own story than about my own personalpain.So what happens if I have tears fall down my cheek AND I am stillparticipating fully at work? I can still smile or even wink atsomeone to let them know that "I am OK" even though I may lookotherwise.I'd really like to say that allowing myself or my bodyto just be ... made it easier, or that it made the pain less, or that I'mSO looking forward to the next board meeting. But it didn't, itwasn't and no I can't really say that yet. But after carrying aroundthat image of the pain in my head (which I still have in my purse) I ambeginning to be more open to the idea of taking my pain anywhere it isthat I have to go.~EM--- InACT_for_the_Public , "gregpeery" wrote:>> Sounds right on the money to me. > > Onething I would like to point out about "feeling this way at work" >You can feel that way at work and still put on the so called front > ofbeing productive. The way I look at it is if you sat there and > criedyou would be giving into to the pain, By going to work and > doing whatyou need to do, while feeling that way, is acceptence. > That is notavoiding life, that is living life. If you did stay home > and sataround and cried, that would be avoiding life, that would be >listening to the passengers on the bus. > > The question youhave to ask is "can I feel this way and still live > my life in avalued direction"? If the answer is Yes then get out > and live yourlife, if those feelings want to come along then great, > bring themwith you. If not then they will be missing out, not you!> > Oneother thing, I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling >better. Just becareful of how you evaluate that thought. It is just> a thought afterall, not good, not bad, just a thought.>> Just a thought,> > Greg> > - InACT_for_the_Public , "usable_thought" ><rburgess@> wrote:> >> > I sympathize - I too havedays in which the pit I have dug seems > the> > only reality.I have a suggestion or two, which you can weigh > against> >your own experience to see if they make sense. > > > >When I am very "depressed," I find myself thinking, "Well, here I >am> > accepting my depression, but it isn't helping - it stillhurts." > But> > then if I remember a bit more about what Ihave learned on the days> > that ACT *has* helped, I realizethat what I am thinking of as> > "accepting" in the currentsituation is probably "resisting." > > > > In other words,for me, the state of feeling depressed and > (thinking> > I'mdepressed, too) is really a form of avoidance.> > > > Whatam I resisting? The answer seems to be emotional pain of some> >other sort. My mind does not want to feel that pain and so instead> I> > feel "depressed." Even the belief that "nothing reallymatters" is > a> > clever form of avoidance by my mind.> > > > So much for theory. When I feel this way, what canI actually do > about> > it? > > > > Ihave found that one helpful technique is to let go and *really* >let> > myself feel everything that I am feeling - including whateverit > is I> > may be avoiding. Normally when I am feelingdepressed, I am > constantly> > telling myself how horribleit is, how miserable I am, etc. But > this> > self-talk isjust more emotional anaesthesia. > > > > The alternativeis to let myself go - to surrender completely for a> > limitedperiod of time. This isn't something I can do at the >workplace> > - as you say, we have to stay productive in suchsettings - but it> > *is* something I can do at home, inprivate. > > > > My form of surrender is to sit as if Iwere going to meditate, and > get> > present with my bodyjust as I would in meditation. I start with a> > body scan,taking my time and not rushing it. I explore every> > millimeter ofmy aching throat, my numb heart, etc. I want to feel> > whateveris there, even as my mind keeps chattering away that it's >no> > use, it doesn't make any sense, etc. > > >> Once I've gotten present with my body, I then ask myself if I'm>> willing to surrender to whatever else may be present. I don'tmean> > surrender in the sense of "believing," but in the sense,again, of> > dropping any defenses I have against feeling fullywhatever > emotional> > pain is in me. I don't know whatthose defenses are at a conscious> > level. And I can't knowwhat pain I will or won't find - maybe it > will> > belike pain I've felt before, maybe not. Surrender means doing> >something without knowing what will happen, but trusting that it >won't> > hurt you worse than you can stand. > > >> I've borrowed this approach from two sources: First, a small book> on> > Zen meditation called "Being Zen," by Ezra Bayda, andsecond, from > a> > passage in the "Get Out of Your Mind"workbook where the authors > talk> > about working with adeeply distressed client who had just gotten> > divorced, was broke,had no job skills, etc. She was at a complete > low> >point, in terrible pain - and terrified of experiencing that pain.> If> > you have a copy of the workbook, it's on page 136.> > > > Here's a quote from that section: "The patientfelt such terrible> > loneliness that she believed that if shewillingly allowed herself > to> > feel its far-reachingeffects, she would be destroyed by its > intensity> > ... Ina therapy session, my colleague and I asked if she would >allow> > herself to feel her loneliness, and she kept saying nountil we got> > her down to agree to be fully willing for onesecond. She agreed to> > feel openly and without defense for onesecond. That was a start."> > > > The woman stoppedtherapy a few months later. But the authors go > on to> > saythat years later, they ran into her again and by this time she >had> > gotten a degree, a job, friends, a partner, etc. She hadturned her> > life around by being willing to feel her pain toits fullest > extent,> > starting with a little at a time.> > > > I find this story inspirational. My own experienceis that very > often> > a deeper pain lies beneath thenumbness and misery I feel on the> > surface. Getting present withthat pain isn't so much about > catharisis> > as it is aboutlearning a process - the process of being naked and> > realrather than attempting to shield myself. > > > > I stillexperience depressive feelings and thoughts. And on some > days>> I am back in my familiar pit. But I seem to be getting a little >better> > on a routine basis at noticing when I'm uncomfortable andrealizing> > I don't *have* to push that discomfort away. Thereis an > alternative.> > > > Hope this helps. And ifI've said anything incorrect in ACT terms, > I> > hopesomeone else will step in and correct me.> > > > >> >> > > I've been having some success with ACT (althoughI'm not sure > what > > > I'm basing that on, since it'snot about "feeling better," I > guess I > > > just feelmore freedom), but right now I'm really struggling. I > >> knew when I hit one of my low lows it'd be a real test. Now,> here I > > > am. Very depressed, sad, empty,everything feels completely > > > meaningless. My heartfeels like its breaking for no reason at > > > all. Ithink about ACT and think "what does that mean?" Part > of my> > > depression has always been the mental mud that accompaniesit. > > > Right now I can't even think of how to applyACT. The most I > know > > > to do is to not resistmy feelings and not buy into my > thoughts. > > >And I'm doing okay I guess at not resisting or avoiding, but > it's> > > hard to feel this way at work. I can't really sit andcry, I > have > > > to at least put up a front of beingproductive. And I worry > about > > > that aspect ofACT with depression because I know from past > > > experiencethat depression can be self-perpetuating, that > allowing > >> myself to "give in" to my depression has made me spiral deeper >and > > > deeper into it and that the more depressed episodes onehas the > more > > > likely they are to havemore. I know there's a difference > between > > >ACT and giving in to my depression but honestly I can't see it > right> > > now. I really need some help (although I'm alsoreally hoping > by > > > the time it comes I'll no longerfeel this way). And I guess > I'm > > > acting inaccordance with my values by reaching out when it goes > > >against every grain of my being to put an email like this out on >a > > > very public level. Thanks in advance for anysuggestions or > advice.> > >>>>

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April 27, 2006

>

> I've been having some success with ACT (although I'm not sure what

> I'm basing that on, since it's not about " feeling better, " I guess

I

> just feel more freedom), but right now I'm really struggling. I

> knew when I hit one of my low lows it'd be a real test. Now, here

I

> am. Very depressed, sad, empty, everything feels completely

> meaningless. My heart feels like its breaking for no reason at

> all. I think about ACT and think " what does that mean? " Part of

my