Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Posted June 4, 2006 Our Western minds have trouble with things that aren’t yes or no, black or white. I have been playing one color, you all the other. It sounds to me like you are working on balancing between A) “trying too hard” as a way to avoid pain and suffering and “not trying at all” as a way to avoid pain and suffering. When you start thinking of “ideals” you recognize “trying too hard” and wrap that all together with any sort of value or goal and throw it out. This starts to sound like not showing up for life, or hiding out from the things we care about, but I don’t think that’s what you mean, or what you are doing. We know that neither of these choices will make pain and suffering go away. Neither will the middle road. So we trudge slowly on, accepting the pain and letting it go, but not letting it keep us from where we are going, where ever that might be today. ACT is a balance between defusing from comparing/evaluating/judging/not good enough/must try harder (what you are focusing on) and allowing ourselves to care about things without hurting ourselves over it (valued direction without worrying about the result). The idea in applying ACT is to work on what each individual may need most to come back into balance at any given time. Greg R From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Bel Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:03 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: values yep it does make sense Becca. It may be against ACT philosophy, I don't know, but I have to do what I believe is right for me on a fundamental basis and it is this. To not analyse what exactly is my values as it sends my mind into a spin with trying to pin down many things that I think are non conceptual and to simply LIVE and be mindful. If I allow myself to simply 'be' and be willing to stuff things up in all domanins if necessary and then just live again. I have found that experience is the grand master, and the willingness to not get it perfect. VERY VERY hard work for those of us who are trying to escape the fact that if we try sooooooo hard we may avoid future pain and suffering. Life simply cannot work like that, as much as I would love it to be like that! Bugger! Somehow for me at the moment, trying to pin down exactly what are my values, how do they play out etc engenders a distrust of myself to actually handle forthcoming situations. It may be avoidance of values, I am not sure, but that's ok too, because I am committing to life without having to be exactly articulate on what are my values. I guess trusting myself to work it out as I go along the merry path of life and trusting that a deep wisdom exists within me and can be accessed only through 'non striving for it'. Making a committment to live with or without anxiety is the key for me. If thinking were to work, I'd do it, it doesn't for me 70% of the time and I go by percentages, for some less analytical it probably does work and it's why CBT is powerful for some people. A friend once said to me 'there is a difference between reflecting and worrying', I KNOW when I am worrying (see previous posts!!) and I know when I am reflecting. They come from SUCH different spaces for me, but it's my EXPERIENCE that has shown me this..a case of getting trapped into trying to think over and over and over again and then realising that 'hey this doesn't work', if I didn't have this experience I couldn't be saying with self-authority that it is true for me, it would be just lip service. I guess the thing that still gets me through the day or any forthcoming situation is not to be trying to pin point all of my values but to actaully ask myself in a situation that is tricky is 'is this behavior useful'. And that comes into all domains, not wanting to cook properly if i am anxious, wanting to not exercise if i feel crap, withdrawing if I feel not heard. So instead of being drawn into mindy stuff of 'ahhh what is my value, what would it do'..I just simply ask 'is this useful'. Everyone adapts things to how they need to I think. The approach I am taking may not work forever, but I trust that I will work something out if that happens. And there may be a time in my life where I can articulate very easily what are my values without spinning out, but for now, I just want to live, learn, stuff up, learn, live and don't get me wrong it SCARES THE BEJEZUZ out of me as my mind wants a full proof plan of action, but my life can't work like that. So yep the anxiety comes along for the ride as asking it take a hike just doesn't work, if it did, NONE of us would be doing any of this work. Long post I know! Metta to all Bel > > Just found this in my draft box: thought i'd sent it. It's what got > me started... > > excessive self-determination is a real mind-trap. values aren't > goals. you write: > > > . Thank goodness for > > > mindfulness! > > maybe you value mindfulness. awareness. acceptance. action that > flows from commitment to that. thinking mind has no way to drag that > value anywhere. > > maybe you value paying attention and experiencing all of this angst > with tender and " defused " awareness. > maybe you are already right on the bulls eye mark, and all those > shoulds and oughts that arise around projected " ideal situations " > are just mind misunderstanding the function of values. > i can't imagine what i would say if someone asked me what i would see > if my " work was being lived out " " ideally " . maybe i'd start > spinning, too. > maybe i would say " work, being lived. no ideals. " ideals are > daydreams. how could anyone get clear on that? that's a spinning > wheel, no wonder you get dizzy. > > what use is speculating about " ideal " work, " ideal " life, what it > would look like? ideals as goals just drag your attention away from > acceptance and flexibility and awareness. > > does that make sense? > . > > > > > > ok, my mind is getting in a pickle! I do not have the book to work > > through, I am just doing exercises that the psych is giving me. I > > have these bulls eyes sheets to do with marking with an x with the > > some of the values I have put forward to her. There are questions > > relating to what I would see if my 'work' was being lived out, what > > would work look like ideally to me and a few other things. > > It seems every time I attempt to answer the questions I cna't get > > clear on it and I end up not knowing anything about my values!. So, > > I notice those thoughts and feelings that go with it, and I put the > > exercise down. Only problem is that I have an appointment with her > > tomorrow arvo and this was supposed to be my homework but I can't > > finish the homework without my mind going into a spin! Think i'll > > just do the best I can with it and not worry about it as it's really > > not helping the situation! > > > > argh! > > any suggestions anyone? Greg? > > > > B > > > > > > > yeah I think I understand a bit about what you are pointing at but > > I > > > can see my mind is a bit agitated with trying to figure it all out > > > at the mo, so perhaps in the morning or when my mind settles a > > > little I may understand a little more : ). Thank goodness for > > > mindfulness! > > > Thank you for replying > > > Bel > > > > > > > > For me, I think there are a few different things going on there. > > > > > > > > What I value helps me know what direction I can commit to taking. > > > > Then there is " what I have been actually doing " which may or may > > > not > > > > match up well with the direction I can take based on my values. > > > > > > > > What other people see me as may be a reflection of the result > > > > of what I have been doing... My read is that ACT is not about > > > > the result, but the direction I choose based on values. > > > > > > > > Also, other people's perceptions of you may be based on their > > > > values, not yours. > > > > > > > > So this could create a lot of confusion if you start comparing > > what > > > > other people think about what they see you doing to the > > direction > > > > you may choose to go in with your life based on your values.\ > > > > > > > > And the comparing/contrasting would create a lot of that mental > > > > activity that we always engage in, that isn't always so helpful. > > > > > > > > Does this make any sense? > > > > > > > > Greg R > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: ACT_for_the_Public > > > > [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Bel > > > > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 7:35 AM > > > > To: ACT_for_the_Public > > > > Subject: values > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > I have a question re: values. I just did the 'imagine your > > > funeral' > > > > exercise with my ACT therapist, I found it really lovely. > > However, > > > I > > > > was wondering if its at all relevent if people close to you see > > > you > > > > differently to how you imagined people saw you at your funeral. > > I > > > told > > > > my friend of what I felt people were saying about me at my > > funeral > > > and > > > > she told me that 'well that's not how I would see you', not to > > say > > > > you're not those things, but I would see you as....etc. > > > > It's made me kind of feel a bit fake with how I viewed my life > > and > > > > maybe I am valuing things that aren't actually what I truly > > value. > > > But > > > > I do wonder if it's really only me who knows what I value and of > > > > course different people will have different takes on me! I Have > > > > noticed a LOT of mind chatter since starting the valuse based > > > stuff, > > > > has anyone else come across this? > > > > > > > > Bel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote
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