Re: eyes one more thought.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that Bill,

But I would offer one little bit to your

comments. I have always been led to understand that the Pupil of

the eye expands and contracts in accordance with certain sorts of stimuli that

it picks up. Thus a woman is likely to have her pupils expand when

she looks on a baby. A lover’s pupil will expand when he looks

erotically on his partner, or even on a photo of a desirable

woman. I think too, that a hungry person’s eyes will show the

same variation when he looks at some delicious food.

Now in these cases it appears to be some

sort of neurological excitement that brings about the pupil changes, and since

the things I listed above are essentially pleasurable, then we surely would

have to say that some degree of emotional development would be discernable from

the change. Okay Bill?

As a side issue, I recall the tests that

showed how if men are given the choice of photos of women with normal pupils on

one hand, and of women with altered photos showing artificially enhanced pupils

on the other. They invariably without knowing why, chose the ones

with the dilated pupils. They apparently looked much more sexy in a

subliminal fashion.

Ron.

Ron H

From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of WD Loughman

Sent: Friday, 11 April 2008 1:54

PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re:

t-them's fightin words!

Princess wrote:

> Ron and Daneka,

>

> What about where the eyes actually reflect more light when someone feels

> better? It is the reflectivity I am seeing. Also, the whites of the

> eyes change color. Yes, I have seen this succenly change from sad to

> happy- from dark and opaque to light and bright and reflective!

The eye's pupil always is dark (no " light " at all; actually it's

" black " ). The eye's iris always has some color, generally lighter than

" black " .

As the iris muscles contract, the pupil's area expands; as they

expand, the pupil's area contracts. The *ratio* of " dark " to

" lighter "

in the eye thus changes with the iris' contractile state.

Usually this happens quite rapidly when the amount of light entering

the pupil changes. Thus, seen from a small distance, the eye may *seem*

to lighten or darken as the light striking it changes.

Really sharp-eyed people might notice this. Maybe even use it in aid of

extracting emotional meaning from *other* facial features.

But Ron's right: the eyeball *itself* contributes little or nothing to

assessment of emotion.

The " white of the eye " doesn't change at all on any time scale useful

for judging current emotion. Apart from the iris effect described

above, the living eye's " reflectivity " doesn't change either.

- Bill, 75, AS

[Guest guest]

Ron H. wrote:

> Thanks for that Bill,

>

> But I would offer one little bit to your comments. I have always been

> led to understand that the Pupil of the eye expands and contracts in

> accordance with certain sorts of stimuli that it picks up.

No. The pupil can't pick up anything; it's a *hole* so to speak.

The physical thing which expands and contracts is the *iris*, a

muscular band which defines the opening/hole. *It* expands and

contracts in the way I described, leaving the " hole " to fend for itself.

That's not completely " just semantics " , 'cause the " neurological

excitement " you cite below can't connect with the hole, after all. That

is: ...ain't not no nerves in the hole.

> Thus a

> woman is likely to have her pupils expand when she looks on a baby. A

> lover’s pupil will expand when he looks erotically on his partner, or

> even on a photo of a desirable woman. I think too, that a hungry

> person’s eyes will show the same variation when he looks at some

> delicious food.

Yes, so long as we understand " pupil " isn't a physical/corporeal thing.

In poetry, etc. it doesn't matter.

But when we embed our words in a discussion of AS/NT and the like,

*what causes what*, we need to be fairly precise, I think.

>

> Now in these cases it appears to be some sort of neurological excitement

> that brings about the pupil changes, and since the things I listed above

> are essentially pleasurable, then we surely would have to say that some

> degree of emotional development would be discernable from the change.

> Okay Bill?

We-e-e-ll, within the limits I described here and earlier. I *did*

say that some sharp-eyed people could see it, and maybe use it.

>

> As a side issue, I recall the tests that showed how if men are given the

> choice of photos of women with normal pupils on one hand, and of women

> with altered photos showing artificially enhanced pupils on the other.

> They invariably without knowing why, chose the ones with the dilated

> pupils. They apparently looked much more sexy in a subliminal fashion.

Maybe not so subliminal. Think of Indian women's use of kohl to darken

the eyes, and our own culture's similar practices. Makes for a

mysterious, " alluring " come-hither look?

- Bill, 75, AS; ...married 40-years (2nd time 'round)

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Ron, Bill, Daneka and - Hi!

What an interesting conversation!!!!! For me eye contact was

REQUIRED!

or 'demanded' at school, because the headmaster felt that if you

could look him in the eye then you were honest. Needless to say, I

received beatings for different reasons almost every day because in

cases where it came to benefit of the doubt, I seemed the most

suspect, I suppose.

Now eye contact means that I give something of myself to the

conversation and to the person I am conversing with. I am " saying " :

I

am listening to you, I care about what you're saying, I have

attention

only for you at this moment. Of course staring would be

uncomfortable

for the other person, so I have learned the eye responses (looking

aside briefly, nodding my head with or without extra blinking ) all

of

these eye-related gestures are a language that communicates

something

non-verbally. I have studied this over the years by watching people

very closely - I wanted to understand what it meant when they did

things. I am now living in a new country and in this country people

arent as expressive with their body language as they are with their

faces. For the first two years I couldn't speak the language and so

I

was severely dependant on any signs possible. There were many

contradictions that I discovered as I learned the language, because

here what people do when they are angry/irritated is to say polite

sentences while their faces are saying what they really feel.

Interpreting this was the challenge for me, but I saw the neccessity

of learning the local face-language. And I think that I have learned

a

lot over these last few years...it has given me an advantage at work

that other foreigners seem to miss out on.

As for the eye itself, the twins have greeny brown eyes. When they

are

tired or up to mischief, then their eyes often go green - mostly

they

are a light brown/mustardy colour. At night their pupils expand like

a

cat's - I have supposed that it has to do with the light more than

their emotion (so your discussion points are food for thought) so I

am

going to pay attention to this to see whether I can notice trends.

My

eyes are such a dark brown that people often stare at me to see if

they can discern where the pupil starts and ends - epecially here in

Europe where the norm is blue/grey eyes. I have also heard often

that

my eyes are so very expressive - however, I wonder if they really

convey what I am feeling or thinking because people often get that

wrong...perhaps my eyes are misleading then...LOL I hope I don't get

into trouble inadvertantly by 'communicating something' that I dont

mean!

You are all asleep now, so Good morning for when you awake,

Rochelle

> [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of WD

Loughman

[Guest guest]

"Ron H." wrote: Ron Said: Thanks for that Bill, But I would offer one little bit to your comments. I have always been led to understand that the Pupil of the eye expands and contracts in accordance with certain sorts of stimuli that it picks up. Thus a woman is likely to have her pupils expand when she looks on a baby. A lover’s pupil will expand when he looks erotically on his partner, or even on a photo of a desirable woman. I think too, that a hungry person’s eyes will show the same variation when he looks at some delicious food. Now in these cases it appears to be

some sort of neurological excitement that brings about the pupil changes, and since the things I listed above are essentially pleasurable, then we surely would have to say that some degree of emotional development would be discernable from the change. Okay Bill? me here: Ron i hope you dont mind if i intercept this. i dont know as much as bill but i do know a little about this one. What you have described is a sympathetic neurological response, the nervous system that prepares the body for fighting, fleeing, feeding and f-ing. The response to a newborn has been studied, humans like things with large eyes compared to their foreheads, large surface area to volume ratio

small ears, no teeth and a list of other criterias that describe a baby..the appearance of a baby to most humans including man humans does set off a multivariate neurological response that can be manifested amongst other things as dilated pupils. It is a reason why so many tourists approach koalas as they have such large eyes compared to the foreheads , think of that creepy creature in lord of the rings.....he looked so harmless...with his big eyes...think of all the cartoons you have seen a s a child where they show a loony tunes character acting sweet and innocent with big, exaggerated blinking eyes. You said: As a side issue, I recall the tests that showed how if men are given the choice of photos of women with normal pupils on one hand, and of women with altered photos showing artificially enhanced pupils on the other. They invariably without knowing why, chose the ones with the dilated pupils. They apparently looked much more sexy in a subliminal fashion. me here: yeah i think a lot of men are receptive to a woman who is prepared to commit to a (very) short term relationship by looking at facial features. this was printed in the Times just this week. eye contact and jaw shape as well as proportin of eyes to nose. there was an explanation but i didnt read any further. Ron. Ron H 36 m diagnosed AS still has a scar on my leg from that "cute" koala i chased as a kid. From:

aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of WD LoughmanSent: Friday, 11 April 2008 1:54 PMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: t-them's fightin words! Princess wrote:> Ron and Daneka,> > What about where the eyes actually reflect more light when someone feels > better? It is the reflectivity I am seeing. Also,

the whites of the > eyes change color. Yes, I have seen this succenly change from sad to > happy- from dark and opaque to light and bright and reflective!The eye's pupil always is dark (no "light" at all; actually it's "black"). The eye's iris always has some color, generally lighter than "black".As the iris muscles contract, the pupil's area expands; as they expand, the pupil's area contracts. The *ratio* of "dark" to "lighter" in the eye thus changes with the iris' contractile state.Usually this happens quite rapidly when the amount of light entering the pupil changes. Thus, seen from a small distance, the eye may *seem* to lighten or darken as the light striking it changes.Really sharp-eyed people might notice this. Maybe even use it in aid of extracting emotional meaning from *other* facial features.But Ron's right: the eyeball *itself* contributes little or nothing to assessment of

emotion.The "white of the eye" doesn't change at all on any time scale useful for judging current emotion. Apart from the iris effect described above, the living eye's "reflectivity" doesn't change either.- Bill, 75, AS

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