Guest guest Posted February 13, 2001 Report Share Posted February 13, 2001 I know that this is a terrible question, and I don't mean to trivialize depression... I too have had go-rounds with it, but have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with it? PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model or are we just plain excusing our inability to cope? (Please don't think I'm trying to be mean... I'm a devote " Paxil-er " !) I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? xoxoxoxox, Crissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Crissie wrote: << .... have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with [depression}? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. << PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, >> Yes. Absolutely. << do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model ... >> Yes. The " adults " who were supposed to love, protect and nurture us almost succeeded in destroying us emotionally. I believe there's a direct correlation between the amount of prolonged emotional trauma we KOs have experienced and the degree to which we are depressed. I believe the " normal " state for KOs is depression but most aren't even aware of it. They've had nothing to compare it to and, in fact, they're emotionally numb. They couldn't tell you what they're feeling if you asked them. And then, when still another traumatic stressing event occurs, the KO has no reserve and goes deeper into depression. KOs will write about their insomnia, lack of motivation, & etc (ie, signs of depression) and, finally, when they can't even physically move any more from depression, then they become aware that something is wrong. << I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. >> Knowing what I know now, I believe what happened to you would have been predictable from your background as a KO. << What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? >> Its common on ModOasis. This list is only 3 months old but as we read the posts we can already see KOs beginning to come out of their 'emotional cocoons'. After I'd been on these Oasis lists for around 2.5 years, one day I went into a feeling state that I didn't have a name for -- so I called it " bliss " . That was the beginning of the lifting of a lifetime of depression. At first it was like traveling on a slow-moving mood rollercoaster. I'd be driving down the street and all of a sudden I'd be aware of these wonderful feelings of " contentment " , of " well being " , of " peace " , and of " joy " . I'd never ever experienced anything like that before. There was nothing specificly that I could point to, preceeding it, that would have triggered it. The feeling of joy was the high, which would maintain for hours, and sometimes even days, and then my mood would sink back to the former level (of depression). It would happen again a couple of days later and then back down. The highs and lows happened more and more frequently but, over time, the lows didn't go as low as they'd gone before. What was happening was a re-setting of my emotional 'thermostat' to a new higher 'set point'. It finally stabilized at the new higher level and hasn't deviated during the past two years. Accompanying that change, I no longer had a need to be a control freak and stressful events no longer bothered me the way they used to. I have been at peace now for going on two years. And, I'm not the only KO that this has happened to. There are others on my more advanced lists. It just takes time and parallels the resolution of a lifetime of all the nada/fada crap that kept us emotionally off balance. And, until this resolution phase occurs, doctors have medications that can help with the depression. And what we're observing here is now being studied in the area of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) under the rubric of mind-body interactions. The pioneer in this area was Candace Pert. And the bottom line here for us KOs is, our state of health and well-being is a reflection of the toxicity in our emotional environment. Hugs & Peace, Edith ~ Empowered Survivor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Crissie wrote: << .... have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with [depression}? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. << PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, >> Yes. Absolutely. << do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model ... >> Yes. The " adults " who were supposed to love, protect and nurture us almost succeeded in destroying us emotionally. I believe there's a direct correlation between the amount of prolonged emotional trauma we KOs have experienced and the degree to which we are depressed. I believe the " normal " state for KOs is depression but most aren't even aware of it. They've had nothing to compare it to and, in fact, they're emotionally numb. They couldn't tell you what they're feeling if you asked them. And then, when still another traumatic stressing event occurs, the KO has no reserve and goes deeper into depression. KOs will write about their insomnia, lack of motivation, & etc (ie, signs of depression) and, finally, when they can't even physically move any more from depression, then they become aware that something is wrong. << I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. >> Knowing what I know now, I believe what happened to you would have been predictable from your background as a KO. << What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? >> Its common on ModOasis. This list is only 3 months old but as we read the posts we can already see KOs beginning to come out of their 'emotional cocoons'. After I'd been on these Oasis lists for around 2.5 years, one day I went into a feeling state that I didn't have a name for -- so I called it " bliss " . That was the beginning of the lifting of a lifetime of depression. At first it was like traveling on a slow-moving mood rollercoaster. I'd be driving down the street and all of a sudden I'd be aware of these wonderful feelings of " contentment " , of " well being " , of " peace " , and of " joy " . I'd never ever experienced anything like that before. There was nothing specificly that I could point to, preceeding it, that would have triggered it. The feeling of joy was the high, which would maintain for hours, and sometimes even days, and then my mood would sink back to the former level (of depression). It would happen again a couple of days later and then back down. The highs and lows happened more and more frequently but, over time, the lows didn't go as low as they'd gone before. What was happening was a re-setting of my emotional 'thermostat' to a new higher 'set point'. It finally stabilized at the new higher level and hasn't deviated during the past two years. Accompanying that change, I no longer had a need to be a control freak and stressful events no longer bothered me the way they used to. I have been at peace now for going on two years. And, I'm not the only KO that this has happened to. There are others on my more advanced lists. It just takes time and parallels the resolution of a lifetime of all the nada/fada crap that kept us emotionally off balance. And, until this resolution phase occurs, doctors have medications that can help with the depression. And what we're observing here is now being studied in the area of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) under the rubric of mind-body interactions. The pioneer in this area was Candace Pert. And the bottom line here for us KOs is, our state of health and well-being is a reflection of the toxicity in our emotional environment. Hugs & Peace, Edith ~ Empowered Survivor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Crissie wrote: << .... have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with [depression}? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. << PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, >> Yes. Absolutely. << do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model ... >> Yes. The " adults " who were supposed to love, protect and nurture us almost succeeded in destroying us emotionally. I believe there's a direct correlation between the amount of prolonged emotional trauma we KOs have experienced and the degree to which we are depressed. I believe the " normal " state for KOs is depression but most aren't even aware of it. They've had nothing to compare it to and, in fact, they're emotionally numb. They couldn't tell you what they're feeling if you asked them. And then, when still another traumatic stressing event occurs, the KO has no reserve and goes deeper into depression. KOs will write about their insomnia, lack of motivation, & etc (ie, signs of depression) and, finally, when they can't even physically move any more from depression, then they become aware that something is wrong. << I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. >> Knowing what I know now, I believe what happened to you would have been predictable from your background as a KO. << What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? >> Its common on ModOasis. This list is only 3 months old but as we read the posts we can already see KOs beginning to come out of their 'emotional cocoons'. After I'd been on these Oasis lists for around 2.5 years, one day I went into a feeling state that I didn't have a name for -- so I called it " bliss " . That was the beginning of the lifting of a lifetime of depression. At first it was like traveling on a slow-moving mood rollercoaster. I'd be driving down the street and all of a sudden I'd be aware of these wonderful feelings of " contentment " , of " well being " , of " peace " , and of " joy " . I'd never ever experienced anything like that before. There was nothing specificly that I could point to, preceeding it, that would have triggered it. The feeling of joy was the high, which would maintain for hours, and sometimes even days, and then my mood would sink back to the former level (of depression). It would happen again a couple of days later and then back down. The highs and lows happened more and more frequently but, over time, the lows didn't go as low as they'd gone before. What was happening was a re-setting of my emotional 'thermostat' to a new higher 'set point'. It finally stabilized at the new higher level and hasn't deviated during the past two years. Accompanying that change, I no longer had a need to be a control freak and stressful events no longer bothered me the way they used to. I have been at peace now for going on two years. And, I'm not the only KO that this has happened to. There are others on my more advanced lists. It just takes time and parallels the resolution of a lifetime of all the nada/fada crap that kept us emotionally off balance. And, until this resolution phase occurs, doctors have medications that can help with the depression. And what we're observing here is now being studied in the area of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) under the rubric of mind-body interactions. The pioneer in this area was Candace Pert. And the bottom line here for us KOs is, our state of health and well-being is a reflection of the toxicity in our emotional environment. Hugs & Peace, Edith ~ Empowered Survivor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on this list! We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, guilt trips and even rages by our disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. Hugs, Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on this list! We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, guilt trips and even rages by our disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. Hugs, Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on this list! We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, guilt trips and even rages by our disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. Hugs, Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Another thought - I've also read that children that are abused as children or subjected to lots of stressors can have a chemical depletion occurs in their brains that leads to a lifetime of depression. I'm looking forward to that day that Edith is talking about. I feel good now, because of the lack of fog, but I'm ready for that bliss! Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Hi Ilene, You wrote: << Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on this list! >> Actually, we're in agreement and we're talking about the same thing. Uh oh, here comes the lecture... <g> There are 3 systems that interact on the inside of our bodies -- the nervous system, the endocrine system (ie, which produces hormones), and the immune system. When these systems are in balance, then the world is a wonderful place to live in. When they are imbalanced, then the world is not so nice. These 3 systems continuously chatter amongst themselves about 'local' conditions. They send messages back and forth and carry on conversations via specialized cells called cytokines. We've all heard/read that STRESS is a killer. In the *nervous system*, stress can result in blood pressure changes that result in strokes and heart attacks. Also, stress can result in a depletion of serotonin in the brain (and Prozac, for example, can slow down the serotonin recycling process). Our craving for " something sweet " (eg, a cookie) when studying serves to temporarily boost our serotonin level. In the *endocrine system*, stress can result in missed/delayed menstrual periods, malfunction of the thyroid, adrenal & etc glands (the adrenals which are involved in our hard-wired fight-flight reactions). And, finally, our *immune system* when stressed takes a dive and not only accounts for the colds students are prone to get during/after final exams, for example, but this powerful system can even turn on itself and the end result is autoimmune diseases -- such as the only too prevalent lupus on these Oasis lists. We KOs differ genetically at birth in our resiliency in these 3 systems. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, however, and the long-term negativity and stress that we KOs have endured since cutting our first tooth predisposes us towards depression -- as well as toward other illness (vs wellness) outcomes later in life. As a teenager, my weakest link became my cardiovascular system -- because of the untreated rheumatic fever that I had that left me with a damaged heart valve. This not only kept me out of PE classes in high school, but I was told to never have children. I have experienced tachycardias from the age of 16 whenever adrenalin pumped into my blood stream from any kind of stress. It kept me from doing lots of things during my lifetime -- no sports activities, & etc -- but I learned to live with it, got married, had two kids, supported them and my third kid (the BP hubby), taught music for a dozen years, went to college and became a full-time professor for 37 years, and although retired, I still have my part-time business that takes up my slack time. I was driven and did lots of stuff that other people only dream of. And, in lots of ways my life was good. My life slowly changed, however, starting from that lightbulb effect back in January of 1996. At that time, I was so stressed that I couldn't even send half the posts I wrote to this list. The voice in my head condemned me continuously and my forehead and hands would be dripping wet by the time I was ready to press the " Send " key. After all these years on all these lists, I have only recently found my voice. And that's when I twisted Randi's arm to let me get this list up and running. So, returning to Ilene, you wrote: << We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, guilt trips and even rages by our disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. >> Exactly. So, to make my long story short, we're both talking about the same thing. I have to laugh when I think about something that happened two years ago. I had a former student who was in town and had nowhere to stay. I offered her my couch and she not only moved in but she stayed for 3 months. She had just separated from, and was in the process of divorcing, her NPD hubby. One of the things that she insisted on was that I hang my diplomas, credentials, and certificates of achievement up on the wall. Until I did that, I had never put together the idea that I had rightfully earned them -- with my own sweat and that they were important. They represented MY achievements and MY successes. And there they were up on the wall reminding me daily of the fact that *I* had earned them. I would never have done that on my own. By seeing MY Self *mirrored* in her eyes (our nadas never mirrored us as normal mothers do their kids), that was another small but important step on my journey toward the light at the end of the tunnel. My life is gooooooooood, now. Hugs & Peace, Edith ~ Psychobiologist (ie, PNI'er) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 I sure get easily depressed. I have been dignosed with dysthymia and eridophobia. Pirjo > I know that this is a terrible question, and I don't mean to trivialize depression... I too have had go-rounds with it, but have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with it? PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model or are we just plain excusing our inability to cope? (Please don't think I'm trying to be mean... I'm a devote " Paxil-er " !) > > I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. > > What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? > > xoxoxoxox, > Crissie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 I sure get easily depressed. I have been dignosed with dysthymia and eridophobia. Pirjo > I know that this is a terrible question, and I don't mean to trivialize depression... I too have had go-rounds with it, but have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with it? PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model or are we just plain excusing our inability to cope? (Please don't think I'm trying to be mean... I'm a devote " Paxil-er " !) > > I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. > > What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? > > xoxoxoxox, > Crissie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 I sure get easily depressed. I have been dignosed with dysthymia and eridophobia. Pirjo > I know that this is a terrible question, and I don't mean to trivialize depression... I too have had go-rounds with it, but have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number of us have struggled with it? PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL role model or are we just plain excusing our inability to cope? (Please don't think I'm trying to be mean... I'm a devote " Paxil-er " !) > > I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't figure any of it out. > > What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO groups, or just ModOasis? > > xoxoxoxox, > Crissie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 I got fibromyalgia instead - I hope that keeps heart problems and cancer out... Pirjo > > > Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, > that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on > this list! > > We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, > guilt trips and even rages by our > disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are > surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. > > Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much > greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- > more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't > visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. > > Hugs, > Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 I got fibromyalgia instead - I hope that keeps heart problems and cancer out... Pirjo > > > Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, > that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on > this list! > > We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, > guilt trips and even rages by our > disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are > surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. > > Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much > greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- > more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't > visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. > > Hugs, > Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 >I've also read that children that are abused as children or > subjected to lots of stressors can have a chemical depletion occurs >in their brains that leads to a lifetime of depression. Hi Ilene- I've read this also. It's amazing how much the brain and it's chemicals act like diabetes or low blood sugar. I've been on Prozac for a year now and it's absolutely changed my life. I feel like I'm the adult I would have been if I hadn't been so physically wracked with stress as a child. Thanks, Rosemary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2001 Report Share Posted February 17, 2001 In a message dated 2/14/01 7:06:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, ilene@... writes: << I've also read that children that are abused as children or subjected to lots of stressors can have a chemical depletion occurs in their brains that leads to a lifetime of depression. >> Ilene, that's really interesting and I'll be willling to bet its true. After many years of stress, etc., it would make sense that brain pathways would be set in a particular way and resistance to change. do you remember where you read this? thanks, Lissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2001 Report Share Posted February 17, 2001 In a message dated 2/15/01 5:34:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, vinna@... writes: << I sure get easily depressed. I have been dignosed with dysthymia and eridophobia. >> Pirjo, what is " eridophobia " ? Lissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2001 Report Share Posted February 17, 2001 I'm afraid I don't remember where I read it, but I'm almost certain I've seen it several differnt places. If I find it again , I'll post it. Ilene In a message dated 2/14/01 7:06:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, ilene@... writes: << I've also read that children that are abused as children or subjected to lots of stressors can have a chemical depletion occurs in their brains that leads to a lifetime of depression. >> Ilene, that's really interesting and I'll be willling to bet its true. After many years of stress, etc., it would make sense that brain pathways would be set in a particular way and resistance to change. do you remember where you read this? thanks, Lissa ~ People joining this list must read the guidelines and agree to them before posting. To get off the list, send a blank message to ModOasis-unsubscribeeGroups. Send questions & concerns to ModOasis-owneronelist. " Stop Waking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2001 Report Share Posted February 17, 2001 Being afraid of conflicts. Pirjo > In a message dated 2/15/01 5:34:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, vinna@a... > writes: > > << I sure get easily depressed. I have been dignosed with dysthymia and > eridophobia. >> > > Pirjo, what is " eridophobia " ? > > Lissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 > > << > ... have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number > of us have struggled with [depression}? > >> > > Yes. Yes. Yes. > > << > PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, > >> > > Yes. Absolutely. > > << > do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL > role model ... > >> > > Yes. The " adults " who were supposed to love, protect and nurture us > almost succeeded in destroying us emotionally. I believe there's a > direct correlation between the amount of prolonged emotional trauma we > KOs have experienced and the degree to which we are depressed. I believe > the " normal " state for KOs is depression but most aren't even aware of > it. They've had nothing to compare it to and, in fact, they're > emotionally numb. They couldn't tell you what they're feeling if you > asked them. And then, when still another traumatic stressing event > occurs, the KO has no reserve and goes deeper into depression. KOs will > write about their insomnia, lack of motivation, & etc (ie, signs of > depression) and, finally, when they can't even physically move any more > from depression, then they become aware that something is wrong. > > << > I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was > stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I > actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little > depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything > (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I > truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I > have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, > intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually > lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure > people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic > attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's > death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't > figure any of it out. > >> > > Knowing what I know now, I believe what happened to you would have been > predictable from your background as a KO. > > << > What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO > groups, or just ModOasis? > >> > > Its common on ModOasis. This list is only 3 months old but as we read > the posts we can already see KOs beginning to come out of their > 'emotional cocoons'. > > After I'd been on these Oasis lists for around 2.5 years, one day I went > into a feeling state that I didn't have a name for -- so I called it > " bliss " . That was the beginning of the lifting of a lifetime of > depression. At first it was like traveling on a slow-moving mood > rollercoaster. I'd be driving down the street and all of a sudden I'd be > aware of these wonderful feelings of " contentment " , of " well being " , of > " peace " , and of " joy " . I'd never ever experienced anything like that > before. There was nothing specificly that I could point to, preceeding > it, that would have triggered it. The feeling of joy was the high, which > would maintain for hours, and sometimes even days, and then my mood > would sink back to the former level (of depression). It would happen > again a couple of days later and then back down. The highs and lows > happened more and more frequently but, over time, the lows didn't go as > low as they'd gone before. What was happening was a re-setting of my > emotional 'thermostat' to a new higher 'set point'. It finally > stabilized at the new higher level and hasn't deviated during the past > two years. Accompanying that change, I no longer had a need to be a > control freak and stressful events no longer bothered me the way they > used to. I have been at peace now for going on two years. And, I'm not > the only KO that this has happened to. There are others on my more > advanced lists. It just takes time and parallels the resolution of a > lifetime of all the nada/fada crap that kept us emotionally off balance. > > And, until this resolution phase occurs, doctors have medications that > can help with the depression. And what we're observing here is now being > studied in the area of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) under the rubric of > mind-body interactions. The pioneer in this area was Candace Pert. And > the bottom line here for us KOs is, our state of health and well- being > is a reflection of the toxicity in our emotional environment. > > Hugs & Peace, > Edith > > ~ Empowered Survivor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 > > << > ... have you all noticed that it seems that a significantly high number > of us have struggled with [depression}? > >> > > Yes. Yes. Yes. > > << > PTSD aside, do you think that it could be something biological, > >> > > Yes. Absolutely. > > << > do you think it is a direct result of our lack of a positive EMOTIONAL > role model ... > >> > > Yes. The " adults " who were supposed to love, protect and nurture us > almost succeeded in destroying us emotionally. I believe there's a > direct correlation between the amount of prolonged emotional trauma we > KOs have experienced and the degree to which we are depressed. I believe > the " normal " state for KOs is depression but most aren't even aware of > it. They've had nothing to compare it to and, in fact, they're > emotionally numb. They couldn't tell you what they're feeling if you > asked them. And then, when still another traumatic stressing event > occurs, the KO has no reserve and goes deeper into depression. KOs will > write about their insomnia, lack of motivation, & etc (ie, signs of > depression) and, finally, when they can't even physically move any more > from depression, then they become aware that something is wrong. > > << > I know that for me personally, my trouble came when our 2nd baby was > stillborn... I really didn't handle that well at all. I think I > actually completely stopped functioning. I'm sure that a little > depression is to be expected, but I'm normally in control of everything > (which I think stems from feeling so out of control as a child). I > truly had to be told to get up and go potty. Talk about overboard. I > have very severe asthma and I actually ended up in the hospital, > intubated with a respirator breathing for me... I think I had actually > lost my will to live. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to secure > people. Ever since then I've been suffering from terrible panic > attacks, which I think stem from my lack of control over Baby Tanner's > death... Maybe that was just the icing on the cake. I still can't > figure any of it out. > >> > > Knowing what I know now, I believe what happened to you would have been > predictable from your background as a KO. > > << > What do you guys think? Edith - is this common throughout the WTO > groups, or just ModOasis? > >> > > Its common on ModOasis. This list is only 3 months old but as we read > the posts we can already see KOs beginning to come out of their > 'emotional cocoons'. > > After I'd been on these Oasis lists for around 2.5 years, one day I went > into a feeling state that I didn't have a name for -- so I called it > " bliss " . That was the beginning of the lifting of a lifetime of > depression. At first it was like traveling on a slow-moving mood > rollercoaster. I'd be driving down the street and all of a sudden I'd be > aware of these wonderful feelings of " contentment " , of " well being " , of > " peace " , and of " joy " . I'd never ever experienced anything like that > before. There was nothing specificly that I could point to, preceeding > it, that would have triggered it. The feeling of joy was the high, which > would maintain for hours, and sometimes even days, and then my mood > would sink back to the former level (of depression). It would happen > again a couple of days later and then back down. The highs and lows > happened more and more frequently but, over time, the lows didn't go as > low as they'd gone before. What was happening was a re-setting of my > emotional 'thermostat' to a new higher 'set point'. It finally > stabilized at the new higher level and hasn't deviated during the past > two years. Accompanying that change, I no longer had a need to be a > control freak and stressful events no longer bothered me the way they > used to. I have been at peace now for going on two years. And, I'm not > the only KO that this has happened to. There are others on my more > advanced lists. It just takes time and parallels the resolution of a > lifetime of all the nada/fada crap that kept us emotionally off balance. > > And, until this resolution phase occurs, doctors have medications that > can help with the depression. And what we're observing here is now being > studied in the area of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) under the rubric of > mind-body interactions. The pioneer in this area was Candace Pert. And > the bottom line here for us KOs is, our state of health and well- being > is a reflection of the toxicity in our emotional environment. > > Hugs & Peace, > Edith > > ~ Empowered Survivor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 >Ilene said " " Personally, I believe the saying `depression is anger turned inward'. " I never bought the " anger turned inward " Freudian thing myself. I see depression as a reaction to helplessness, and this is being borne out by animal studies too. Depression may have been a kind of adaptive reaction when we were kids. Disassociation and going inward was the best way to wait out our BPD-caregivers' rages when we were kids, but disassociation is maladaptive now that we are adults; Immobilizing depression probably helped make us invisible and kept us out of the line of fire many times as kids, and but now that we are adults it is maladaptive. Unfortunately there are permanent or at least resistant brain changes after long-term stress and depression that make additional depression likely. This is an issue I have been struggling with rather acutely since Thanksgiving. I am really frustrated that she can send me into a depression so easily, and that I seem to have so little self-control in this area. Again the realization that eliminating contact with her is the right thing for me to do for myself, darn this is hard. I carry so much guilt. > > Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, > that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on > this list! > > We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, > guilt trips and even rages by our > disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are > surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. > > Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much > greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- > more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't > visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. > > Hugs, > Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 >Ilene said " " Personally, I believe the saying `depression is anger turned inward'. " I never bought the " anger turned inward " Freudian thing myself. I see depression as a reaction to helplessness, and this is being borne out by animal studies too. Depression may have been a kind of adaptive reaction when we were kids. Disassociation and going inward was the best way to wait out our BPD-caregivers' rages when we were kids, but disassociation is maladaptive now that we are adults; Immobilizing depression probably helped make us invisible and kept us out of the line of fire many times as kids, and but now that we are adults it is maladaptive. Unfortunately there are permanent or at least resistant brain changes after long-term stress and depression that make additional depression likely. This is an issue I have been struggling with rather acutely since Thanksgiving. I am really frustrated that she can send me into a depression so easily, and that I seem to have so little self-control in this area. Again the realization that eliminating contact with her is the right thing for me to do for myself, darn this is hard. I carry so much guilt. > > Personally, I believe the saying " depression is anger turned inward " . I, think, > that sometimes it may be only a chemical problem, such as diabetes, but not on > this list! > > We KOs weren't allowed to express our true feelings. After repeated put downs, > guilt trips and even rages by our > disfunctional parents, we buried our anger and other emotions. Now they are > surfacing in the form of depression and other ailments. > > Unfortunately, I read the other day that wormen with depression are at much > greater risk for heart disease and breast cancer- > more to thank our nadas and fadas for. Of course this may mean they just don't > visit a doctor because of depression and so many things go undetected. > > Hugs, > Ilene in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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