Re: where to go from here?

[Guest guest]

So........after all this..........what you really are refraining from saying is that.......both of these endos actually..........think.......if you want to call it that, that is............that your thyroid is located around the area of your uterus.........That's better than some I've seen........most think that it is located.......around the area.........of our brains........and some even......think (if you want to call it that, that is)........it's nonexiistant.........and that our bodies are made out of.......cholesterol drugs........antidepressants (#1 thing)........Premarin (with a big "P".........diet drugs.........tranquilizers......antipsychotics....anti manic drugs.......narcotic pain killers........sleep aids.........and I probably forgot some of these........but my body was made out of all of these, at one time, with chronically undertreated thyroid, so it's still hard to think these days, lol.

P.S. I'm thinking that these two doctors, secretly, wanted your uterus, because they have hidden desires to become women and were actually jealous that you had an intact one. It's getting to where NOTHING would surprise me about the Medical Mainstream Majority. You've heard of the Moral Majority? Well, this organization is a thousand times bigger.

RE: Re: where to go from here?

In 1998, at age 44, I bled so heavily that I narrowly escaped a transfusion. I was put on birth control to regulate my periods. I had a really good GYN (Dallas) and she did every test imaginable and declared my uterus healthy, however I had estrogen dominance and that’s what caused the heavy, prolonged periods. After my blood count returned to normal I tried Dr. Lee’s approach with natural progesterone cream and got off the pill, but in 5 months it all came back.

Last October (2003) my blood pressure started going up, so my new GYN (SA) took me off the pill again and tested my hormone levels. She also did ultrasounds and a biopsy and once again my uterus was diagnosed as healthy. I was at the threshold of menopause.

Within one month of getting off the pill my TSH went from 2.99 (too high for me) to .06 (way too low). My endo took me off levoxyl for about 2 weeks, at the end of which time I went in to see him. He put me on a reduced dose of levoxyl and told me that I should consider a hysterectomy because of my age (50 at the time) and the effect that estrogen has on thyroid hormones. (So, like no one has hormone problems after a hysterectomy???) In three months time on the reduced dose, my TSH was still too low and I was having a lot of hyper symptoms. He didn’t want to change the levoxyl dose, .100, so he figured a low dose of estrogen, unopposed, would “tweak” my TSH.

Three weeks after starting the estradiol I began to bleed with a vengeance. My ferritin bottomed out and I was anemic again. The GYN said to get back on the pill to regulate again and then we’d decide what to do once the anemia was gone. She said that due to my age and being so close to menopause, there was no reason for a hysterectomy.

When I talked to the endo about all this he said, “So, when are you going to get that nasty old uterus taken out?” I swear that’s word for word. I told him that my GYN said there was no need, that it is a healthy organ. He said that he realized that he couldn’t talk me into it over the phone….we’d discuss it at our next visit. Well, I haven’t been back since. I can’t see paying all that money to him just to argue over something that’s none of his business. That’s why, when my PCP worthless internist said that I need to get my GYN and endo to work together, I dumped her too. Besides, I thought that was the PCP’s job! Pull it all together!

I love my GYN and still see her, and she and my new internist will work well together if need be. She’ll do all the below the waist stuff and he does all the above the waist. I know that if either of them needs to question the other it will be cool.

Janet

Actually, the short answer to your question, why did Dr. Dons want me to have a hysterectomy?? NO PARTICULAR REASON!!

[Guest guest]

Ya know, I shudder to think of going to this endo of hers, it sends cold

chills down my spine (the one that said they were going to tweak). My God,

all of us who've been at this awhile would know that the reverse effect

would happen. The thyroid hormone would get bound up, then the signals

MIGHT be sent back to the hypothalamus, then to the pituitary that " Hey,

man, there's nothing going on out there in the body, so let's step up the

pace to get it to make more, ok? " What an idiot! Geez! This MAN needs to

carry a bleeding uterus around in his own body, and a swollen thyroid, to

boot!

, uterine fibroids are estrogen dependent, as in estrogen dominance,

when there's not much progesterone to go around to police it. Didn't you

say youre using progesterone cream, or did I dream it? This is what

happened to me, and I did have a hyst at the age of 35 or 36. Are you not

having heavy, close-together periods at this point in time?

Re: where to go from here?

>

>

> Janet,

>

> Oh gosh, you poor thing! And I thought I had been through it! I

> have never in my life heard of a doctor trying to " tweak " a TSH with

> estrogen! Oh my goodness. Estrogen does bind with thyroid hormone

> but I can't believe a doctor prescribing it to a patient with

> estrogen dominant symptoms! I'm trying the natural progesterone

> cream route too because of heavy bleeding and pelvic pain. I've had

> two laparoscopic surgeries with no success. After the first lap, I

> was told I have a " small " fibroid tumor and not to worry about it.

>

> Last week, I went for my annual gyn exam and pap smear. She decided

> to have an ultrasound done to check the lining of my uterus since I

> had just had a period and it is not supposed to be thick. Well, the

> ultrasound technician said my lining was VERY thick and that I had

> substantial fibroids " everywhere, " even towards the back (and gee I

> wonder why my lower back has been hurting for weeks). The doctor

> was supposed to call me with the results and did leave one message

> but I haven't been able to get ahold of her. Now what? I didn't

> mean to interject with my own problems but I'm feeling kinda

> panicky. Can't afford a THIRD surgery and where did all those

> fibroids come from all of a sudden?!

>

> Are you back on the pill now?

[Guest guest]

Ya know, I shudder to think of going to this endo of hers, it sends cold

chills down my spine (the one that said they were going to tweak). My God,

all of us who've been at this awhile would know that the reverse effect

would happen. The thyroid hormone would get bound up, then the signals

MIGHT be sent back to the hypothalamus, then to the pituitary that " Hey,

man, there's nothing going on out there in the body, so let's step up the

pace to get it to make more, ok? " What an idiot! Geez! This MAN needs to

carry a bleeding uterus around in his own body, and a swollen thyroid, to

boot!

, uterine fibroids are estrogen dependent, as in estrogen dominance,

when there's not much progesterone to go around to police it. Didn't you

say youre using progesterone cream, or did I dream it? This is what

happened to me, and I did have a hyst at the age of 35 or 36. Are you not

having heavy, close-together periods at this point in time?

Re: where to go from here?

>

>

> Janet,

>

> Oh gosh, you poor thing! And I thought I had been through it! I

> have never in my life heard of a doctor trying to " tweak " a TSH with

> estrogen! Oh my goodness. Estrogen does bind with thyroid hormone

> but I can't believe a doctor prescribing it to a patient with

> estrogen dominant symptoms! I'm trying the natural progesterone

> cream route too because of heavy bleeding and pelvic pain. I've had

> two laparoscopic surgeries with no success. After the first lap, I

> was told I have a " small " fibroid tumor and not to worry about it.

>

> Last week, I went for my annual gyn exam and pap smear. She decided

> to have an ultrasound done to check the lining of my uterus since I

> had just had a period and it is not supposed to be thick. Well, the

> ultrasound technician said my lining was VERY thick and that I had

> substantial fibroids " everywhere, " even towards the back (and gee I

> wonder why my lower back has been hurting for weeks). The doctor

> was supposed to call me with the results and did leave one message

> but I haven't been able to get ahold of her. Now what? I didn't

> mean to interject with my own problems but I'm feeling kinda

> panicky. Can't afford a THIRD surgery and where did all those

> fibroids come from all of a sudden?!

>

> Are you back on the pill now?

[Guest guest]

Progesterone would have the opposite effect and would "treat" the bleeding problems with the uterus. When there's not enough progesterone, then that makes estrogen very dominant, even though a woman may be making only a small amt of it, at that time. Estrogen is the culprit, not progesterone.

RE: Re: where to go from here?

In 1998, when I was on natural progesterone those 5 months, I developed adenomyosis & ovarian cysts, which I’d never had before. That’s why I bled so badly after seeming to do so well. When I was put back on birth control pills, it cleared up. In case you don’t know what adenomyosis is, it’s the same as endometriosis but instead of tissue growing outside of the uterus, it grows into the wall of the uterus. Very painful when the periods start. Have never had a problem since. I don’t know if the progesterone had anything to do with it….just something to consider.

During the time that I was afraid of having to have a hysterectomy I did a lot of research on alternative therapies. For fibroids they can tie off the blood supply to the fibroid and it will shrink. For problems in the uterine lining they now do an ablation, burning off the uterine lining with some type of balloon filled with a hot substance (water?). Of course, if you plan to have (more) children this would be out of the question. If you don’t already know about these things, ask your Gyn.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Janet, have you ever had your Free T3 and your Free T4 checked, in all this time. THOSE are the thyroid hormones.

RE: where to go from here?

His credentials are exactly why I chose to write to him….no more endos for me! There’s nothing they can do, except the radiology part of it, that any up-to-date internist can’t do, or GP for that matter. Endos don’t seem to want to deal with people they can’t easily treat and dismiss. Even Lakhian in Dallas told me that I didn’t need her once I started meds (translate: I don’t want to see YOU anymore, can’t deal with it.) A teachable, well-informed and compassionate internist is worth 1000 specialists as far as I’m concerned.

When I had my last TSH I was down to .53 from 11.7. Dr. Ozan said that this was in the normal range and that he’d really like to concentrate on getting my anemia taken care of. When I explained what my optimal TSH range is (1.2-1.7) and that I suffer significant symptoms when I go the slightest bit out of 1.0 and 2.0, he immediately sat down and figured out how to adjust my dose of levoxyl without causing another wild swing and told me to get checked again in 4 weeks, (I respond very quickly to any changes in my dose). My other doctors would not have listened, would have offered antidepressants, and I would not be feeling as good as I am today (not 100% yet, but feeling hopeful for the first time in four years!)

I think that with my experiences, all the research I’ve done, and communication with other thyroid patients on Shomon’s site, I’m at a place where I can say, “Listen to ME, do the proper labs, write a proper prescription. I’ll call you when I need you.” Ozan fits the bill for me.

BTW, you have Dr. Noble in on your Top Doc list and I just want to give him two “Thumbs Up!”. When I first presented with thyroid symptoms my doctors were useless. I knew him from taking my kids to him for allergy treatment. He wasn’t on our insurance so I went just for a consultation and he told me immediately that he strongly suspected hyperthyroid and told me to go back to my internist (Dallas) and ask for the proper tests (for insurance coverage). He offered to contact her himself and tell her what he thought. Well, the correct tests were done and an apology was given. Unfortunately, I didn’t consult with Dr. Noble again after my scan & uptake. I just went willie-nillie back to Lakhian and had my thyroid nuked. Still kicking myself in the butt over that one. When I moved here to SA 4 months later and couldn’t find a decent doctor or get my TSH to stay in a decent range, I wrote to Noble telling him what was going on and he actually called me long distance to give me guidance and encouragement!

Janet

[Guest guest]

Janet, have you ever had your Free T3 and your Free T4 checked, in all this time. THOSE are the thyroid hormones.

RE: where to go from here?

His credentials are exactly why I chose to write to him….no more endos for me! There’s nothing they can do, except the radiology part of it, that any up-to-date internist can’t do, or GP for that matter. Endos don’t seem to want to deal with people they can’t easily treat and dismiss. Even Lakhian in Dallas told me that I didn’t need her once I started meds (translate: I don’t want to see YOU anymore, can’t deal with it.) A teachable, well-informed and compassionate internist is worth 1000 specialists as far as I’m concerned.

When I had my last TSH I was down to .53 from 11.7. Dr. Ozan said that this was in the normal range and that he’d really like to concentrate on getting my anemia taken care of. When I explained what my optimal TSH range is (1.2-1.7) and that I suffer significant symptoms when I go the slightest bit out of 1.0 and 2.0, he immediately sat down and figured out how to adjust my dose of levoxyl without causing another wild swing and told me to get checked again in 4 weeks, (I respond very quickly to any changes in my dose). My other doctors would not have listened, would have offered antidepressants, and I would not be feeling as good as I am today (not 100% yet, but feeling hopeful for the first time in four years!)

I think that with my experiences, all the research I’ve done, and communication with other thyroid patients on Shomon’s site, I’m at a place where I can say, “Listen to ME, do the proper labs, write a proper prescription. I’ll call you when I need you.” Ozan fits the bill for me.

BTW, you have Dr. Noble in on your Top Doc list and I just want to give him two “Thumbs Up!”. When I first presented with thyroid symptoms my doctors were useless. I knew him from taking my kids to him for allergy treatment. He wasn’t on our insurance so I went just for a consultation and he told me immediately that he strongly suspected hyperthyroid and told me to go back to my internist (Dallas) and ask for the proper tests (for insurance coverage). He offered to contact her himself and tell her what he thought. Well, the correct tests were done and an apology was given. Unfortunately, I didn’t consult with Dr. Noble again after my scan & uptake. I just went willie-nillie back to Lakhian and had my thyroid nuked. Still kicking myself in the butt over that one. When I moved here to SA 4 months later and couldn’t find a decent doctor or get my TSH to stay in a decent range, I wrote to Noble telling him what was going on and he actually called me long distance to give me guidance and encouragement!

Janet

[Guest guest]

Dr. Diane Fetchick. Anyone been to her? She is on the top doc list

at about.com. Hmmm...

> > > I got " fired " by my endo today. She said that she has done all

> > that

> > > she can for me-- " its not my thyroid " . She thinks I have a mood

> > > disorder and told me to get a 2nd opinion from another endo.

> She

> > > said that if the 2nd opinion found something that she missed to

> > let

> > > her know and she will apologize. What a comfort, huh?

> > >

> > > Also said that I might have to go to nutritional doctor (which

I

> > > have gone to a homeopath nurse) that uses biodentical hormones

> and

> > > saliva testing. I read in my chart that she wrote " no follow

up

> > > here " . (Note: my saliva cortisol and DHEAS were elevated)

> > >

> > > I mentioned to her that I wanted my prolactin, ACTH, CRH and

> > > cortisol tested. I think she saw that I was doing my homework

> and

> > > didn't like it. She apparently doesn't want to deal with it.

> > Sound

> > > familiar?

> > >

> > > My TSH came back at 2.46. I asked her is she was aware that

the

> > > levels have been lowered to 3.0. No comment. Maybe she is

> > > brainwashed by insurance companies, you think?

> > >

> > > I am taking .075 levoxyl and have tried Armour, by itself, and

> > > cytomel too. Both made me feel worse. I haven't tried Armour

> > ALONG

> > > with the levoxyl, so I asked her if she could prescribe it.

She

> > > said that she doesn't do the two together. Whats up with that?

> > >

> > > What do you think about ear nose and throat doc? My daughter's

> > ENT

> > > said that he treats thyroid patients. Maybe he could do more

> lab

> > > work to solve this mystery as to why I don't feel so good.

> > >

> > > My TSH is still high, to me---where should I go from here?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dr. Diane Fetchick. Anyone been to her? She is on the top doc list

at about.com. Hmmm...

> > > I got " fired " by my endo today. She said that she has done all

> > that

> > > she can for me-- " its not my thyroid " . She thinks I have a mood

> > > disorder and told me to get a 2nd opinion from another endo.

> She

> > > said that if the 2nd opinion found something that she missed to

> > let

> > > her know and she will apologize. What a comfort, huh?

> > >

> > > Also said that I might have to go to nutritional doctor (which

I

> > > have gone to a homeopath nurse) that uses biodentical hormones

> and

> > > saliva testing. I read in my chart that she wrote " no follow

up

> > > here " . (Note: my saliva cortisol and DHEAS were elevated)

> > >

> > > I mentioned to her that I wanted my prolactin, ACTH, CRH and

> > > cortisol tested. I think she saw that I was doing my homework

> and

> > > didn't like it. She apparently doesn't want to deal with it.

> > Sound

> > > familiar?

> > >

> > > My TSH came back at 2.46. I asked her is she was aware that

the

> > > levels have been lowered to 3.0. No comment. Maybe she is

> > > brainwashed by insurance companies, you think?

> > >

> > > I am taking .075 levoxyl and have tried Armour, by itself, and

> > > cytomel too. Both made me feel worse. I haven't tried Armour

> > ALONG

> > > with the levoxyl, so I asked her if she could prescribe it.

She

> > > said that she doesn't do the two together. Whats up with that?

> > >

> > > What do you think about ear nose and throat doc? My daughter's

> > ENT

> > > said that he treats thyroid patients. Maybe he could do more

> lab

> > > work to solve this mystery as to why I don't feel so good.

> > >

> > > My TSH is still high, to me---where should I go from here?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dr. Diane Fetchick. Anyone been to her? She is on the top doc list

at about.com. Hmmm...

> > > I got " fired " by my endo today. She said that she has done all

> > that

> > > she can for me-- " its not my thyroid " . She thinks I have a mood

> > > disorder and told me to get a 2nd opinion from another endo.

> She

> > > said that if the 2nd opinion found something that she missed to

> > let

> > > her know and she will apologize. What a comfort, huh?

> > >

> > > Also said that I might have to go to nutritional doctor (which

I

> > > have gone to a homeopath nurse) that uses biodentical hormones

> and

> > > saliva testing. I read in my chart that she wrote " no follow

up

> > > here " . (Note: my saliva cortisol and DHEAS were elevated)

> > >

> > > I mentioned to her that I wanted my prolactin, ACTH, CRH and

> > > cortisol tested. I think she saw that I was doing my homework

> and

> > > didn't like it. She apparently doesn't want to deal with it.

> > Sound

> > > familiar?

> > >

> > > My TSH came back at 2.46. I asked her is she was aware that

the

> > > levels have been lowered to 3.0. No comment. Maybe she is

> > > brainwashed by insurance companies, you think?

> > >

> > > I am taking .075 levoxyl and have tried Armour, by itself, and

> > > cytomel too. Both made me feel worse. I haven't tried Armour

> > ALONG

> > > with the levoxyl, so I asked her if she could prescribe it.

She

> > > said that she doesn't do the two together. Whats up with that?

> > >

> > > What do you think about ear nose and throat doc? My daughter's

> > ENT

> > > said that he treats thyroid patients. Maybe he could do more

> lab

> > > work to solve this mystery as to why I don't feel so good.

> > >

> > > My TSH is still high, to me---where should I go from here?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dr.

Fetchick is one of the 6 drs I wrote to explaining my situation and asking if

there was a way we could work together.

She’s one of the 5 who never responded, not that I have a right to

expect her to, but I was so tired of paying money for office visits that

produced bad results, that I figured I save us all the time and energy.

Of course

this doesn’t mean she’s not a good doctor, maybe just too busy.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Dr.

Fetchick is one of the 6 drs I wrote to explaining my situation and asking if

there was a way we could work together.

She’s one of the 5 who never responded, not that I have a right to

expect her to, but I was so tired of paying money for office visits that

produced bad results, that I figured I save us all the time and energy.

Of course

this doesn’t mean she’s not a good doctor, maybe just too busy.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Jan,

I certainly do intend to ask Dr. R. about it, once I have all the

info. He's about the only one I trust anyway. I'm still waiting on

a call from the gyn to confirm whether it's fibroids or not, how

serious it is, etc. and it'll be a week tomorrow since that

disturbing ultrasound. Some docs don't mind keepin' their patients

in the dark. And here I was wondering if the prog. cream was causing

them to proliferate?

Thanks!

> Fibroids can sometimes be shrunk with bio-equivalent hormones. It

is a slow process, but it is worth a try. You may want to ask Dr. R

what he thinks about this.

>

[Guest guest]

Jan,

I certainly do intend to ask Dr. R. about it, once I have all the

info. He's about the only one I trust anyway. I'm still waiting on

a call from the gyn to confirm whether it's fibroids or not, how

serious it is, etc. and it'll be a week tomorrow since that

disturbing ultrasound. Some docs don't mind keepin' their patients

in the dark. And here I was wondering if the prog. cream was causing

them to proliferate?

Thanks!

> Fibroids can sometimes be shrunk with bio-equivalent hormones. It

is a slow process, but it is worth a try. You may want to ask Dr. R

what he thinks about this.

>

[Guest guest]

I've heard of her but am sure glad I didn't try her. Actually, a

good cardiologist in town didn't have very nice things to say about

her or her practice.

Don't let that about.com top doc list fool you. Anyone can post a

recommendation about any doctor. Someone posted that they like my

nightmare S.A. Endo (Fischer) whom I would never, ever recommend to

anybody. The top doc list on this site is checked and double checked.

Thanks.

> >

> > Yes, please share with us who this endo is in San

> > who " fired " you. It's obvious from her treatment of you that

> anyone

> > in S.A. with thyroid problems should steer clear of this one.

Let

> > us know what you decide to do. Maybe try Janet's new Dr. on

> > Bandera???

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've heard of her but am sure glad I didn't try her. Actually, a

good cardiologist in town didn't have very nice things to say about

her or her practice.

Don't let that about.com top doc list fool you. Anyone can post a

recommendation about any doctor. Someone posted that they like my

nightmare S.A. Endo (Fischer) whom I would never, ever recommend to

anybody. The top doc list on this site is checked and double checked.

Thanks.

> >

> > Yes, please share with us who this endo is in San

> > who " fired " you. It's obvious from her treatment of you that

> anyone

> > in S.A. with thyroid problems should steer clear of this one.

Let

> > us know what you decide to do. Maybe try Janet's new Dr. on

> > Bandera???

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the information. Yes, I have heard of

adenomyosis but two doctors have dismissed it without checking. How

can that be? I don't understand how progesterone cream can

exacerbate estrogen dominance symptoms. I thought it was supposed to

halt the symptoms by evening things out!

It's good to know about the ablation too. I hadn't heard of that.

No more babies for me!

> In 1998, when I was on natural progesterone those 5 months, I

developed

> adenomyosis & ovarian cysts, which I'd never had before. That's

why I bled

> so badly after seeming to do so well. When I was put back on

birth control

> pills, it cleared up. In case you don't know what adenomyosis is,

it's the

> same as endometriosis but instead of tissue growing outside of the

uterus,

> it grows into the wall of the uterus. Very painful when the

periods start.

> Have never had a problem since. I don't know if the progesterone

had

> anything to do with it….just something to consider.

>

> During the time that I was afraid of having to have a hysterectomy

I did a

> lot of research on alternative therapies. For fibroids they can

tie off the

> blood supply to the fibroid and it will shrink. For problems in

the uterine

> lining they now do an ablation, burning off the uterine lining with

some

> type of balloon filled with a hot substance (water?). Of course,

if you

> plan to have (more) children this would be out of the question. If

you don'

> t already know about these things, ask your Gyn.

>

> Janet

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the information. Yes, I have heard of

adenomyosis but two doctors have dismissed it without checking. How

can that be? I don't understand how progesterone cream can

exacerbate estrogen dominance symptoms. I thought it was supposed to

halt the symptoms by evening things out!

It's good to know about the ablation too. I hadn't heard of that.

No more babies for me!

> In 1998, when I was on natural progesterone those 5 months, I

developed

> adenomyosis & ovarian cysts, which I'd never had before. That's

why I bled

> so badly after seeming to do so well. When I was put back on

birth control

> pills, it cleared up. In case you don't know what adenomyosis is,

it's the

> same as endometriosis but instead of tissue growing outside of the

uterus,

> it grows into the wall of the uterus. Very painful when the

periods start.

> Have never had a problem since. I don't know if the progesterone

had

> anything to do with it….just something to consider.

>

> During the time that I was afraid of having to have a hysterectomy

I did a

> lot of research on alternative therapies. For fibroids they can

tie off the

> blood supply to the fibroid and it will shrink. For problems in

the uterine

> lining they now do an ablation, burning off the uterine lining with

some

> type of balloon filled with a hot substance (water?). Of course,

if you

> plan to have (more) children this would be out of the question. If

you don'

> t already know about these things, ask your Gyn.

>

> Janet

[Guest guest]

Actually,

one of them IS a woman! Maybe she

feels she needs two?? (LOL)

Janet

[Guest guest]

Yeah, when

I beg, scream and kick.

My former internist

would only do a TSH once a year, although I could con her PA or Nurse prac. into

doing more by rotating who I scheduled with.

I had to

go to Doctor Hysterectomy in order to get a TSH and a Ft4 (he wouldn’t do Ft3).

So when I

found Dr. Ozan in October he automatically, without my having to ask, did the

TSH, Ft3, Ft4, and thyroid antibodies as well as estrogen/progest./testost. etc. He never does a TSH without at least

doing the Ft4, and until I’m satisfied with my levels, or if there are

any significant changes in my

weight, meds, diet, etc., he will check my thyroid levels every 3-4

weeks.

Janet

[Guest guest]

You are saying that this doc had "Uterus Envy"? I think it is more like the height of misogyny. . . . wrote:

So........after all this..........what you really are refraining from saying is that.......both of these endos actually..........think.......if you want to call it that, that is............that your thyroid is located around the area of your uterus.........That's better than some I've seen........most think that it is located.......around the area.........of our brains........and some even......think (if you want to call it that, that is)........it's nonexiistant.........and that our bodies are made out of.......cholesterol drugs........antidepressants (#1 thing)........Premarin (with a big "P".........diet drugs.........tranquilizers......antipsychotics....anti manic drugs.......narcotic pain killers........sleep aids.........and I probably forgot some of these........but my body was made out of all of these, at one time, with chronically undertreated thyroid, so it's still hard to think these days, lol.

P.S. I'm thinking that these two doctors, secretly, wanted your uterus, because they have hidden desires to become women and were actually jealous that you had an intact one. It's getting to where NOTHING would surprise me about the Medical Mainstream Majority. You've heard of the Moral Majority? Well, this organization is a thousand times bigger.

RE: Re: where to go from here?

In 1998, at age 44, I bled so heavily that I narrowly escaped a transfusion. I was put on birth control to regulate my periods. I had a really good GYN (Dallas) and she did every test imaginable and declared my uterus healthy, however I had estrogen dominance and that’s what caused the heavy, prolonged periods. After my blood count returned to normal I tried Dr. Lee’s approach with natural progesterone cream and got off the pill, but in 5 months it all came back.

Last October (2003) my blood pressure started going up, so my new GYN (SA) took me off the pill again and tested my hormone levels. She also did ultrasounds and a biopsy and once again my uterus was diagnosed as healthy. I was at the threshold of menopause.

Within one month of getting off the pill my TSH went from 2.99 (too high for me) to .06 (way too low). My endo took me off levoxyl for about 2 weeks, at the end of which time I went in to see him. He put me on a reduced dose of levoxyl and told me that I should consider a hysterectomy because of my age (50 at the time) and the effect that estrogen has on thyroid hormones. (So, like no one has hormone problems after a hysterectomy???) In three months time on the reduced dose, my TSH was still too low and I was having a lot of hyper symptoms. He didn’t want

to change the levoxyl dose, .100, so he figured a low dose of estrogen, unopposed, would “tweak” my TSH.

Three weeks after starting the estradiol I began to bleed with a vengeance. My ferritin bottomed out and I was anemic again. The GYN said to get back on the pill to regulate again and then we’d decide what to do once the anemia was gone. She said that due to my age and being so close to menopause, there was no reason for a hysterectomy.

When I talked to the endo about all this he said, “So, when are you going to get that nasty old uterus taken out?” I swear that’s word for word. I told him that my GYN said there was no need, that it is a healthy organ. He said that he realized that he couldn’t talk me into it over the phone….we’d discuss it at our next visit. Well, I haven’t been back since. I can’t see paying all that money to him just to argue over something that’s none of his business. That’s why, when my PCP worthless internist said that I

need to get my GYN and endo to work together, I dumped her too. Besides, I thought that was the PCP’s job! Pull it all together!

I love my GYN and still see her, and she and my new internist will work well together if need be. She’ll do all the below the waist stuff and he does all the above the waist. I know that if either of them needs to question the other it will be cool.

Janet

Actually, the short answer to your question, why did Dr. Dons want me to have a hysterectomy?? NO PARTICULAR REASON!!__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> , uterine fibroids are estrogen dependent, as in estrogen

dominance,

> when there's not much progesterone to go around to police it.

Didn't you

> say youre using progesterone cream, or did I dream it? This is

what

> happened to me, and I did have a hyst at the age of 35 or 36. Are

you not

> having heavy, close-together periods at this point in time?

:

Yes, yes, and yes. I am on the progesterone cream because of the

estrogen dominance symptoms -- way heavy bleeding, prolonged

bleeding, terrible breast pain, pms, you name it. It seems to have

helped start alleviating some of the symptoms already but I have

heard from one or two women who said they started on the

progesterone cream and the opposite happened and they were in for a

hysterectomy before they knew what was happening. I have read the

estrogen can kick up for a bit first before settling down but who

knows and then all of a sudden I have fibroids everywhere and the

doctor won't call to confirm that? I'm lost again. And tired, I'd

better go to bed, or I'll be a walking zombie at work again

tomorrow! Are you doing okay with the cream?

[Guest guest]

Hehe!

RE: Re: where to go from here?

Actually, one of them IS a woman! Maybe she feels she needs two?? (LOL)

Janet

[Guest guest]

Hehe!

RE: Re: where to go from here?

Actually, one of them IS a woman! Maybe she feels she needs two?? (LOL)

Janet

[Guest guest]

I just wish someone could explain to me why high estrogen is purportedly the

problem whenever one suffers symptoms most typically experienced during the

low estrogen and high progesterone half of our cycle. The period starts at

all only when estrogen dips low enough and progesterone rises high enough to

trigger it. Water retention, cramping, heavy bleeding, sore breasts etc -

these are common during the low estrogen /high progesterone phase of the

cycle and nowhere to be seen during the high estrogen/low progesterone half

of the cycle.

ALSO the 'estrogen dominance' theory is supposed to affect primarily women

moving into the period of our lives CLINICALLY DEFINED by the drop in

estrogen production - a drop not mirrored by a drop in progesterone levels

for another ten years or so. I read the man's book and it makes sense

unless you consider the above. He has a theory and it very far from proven,

in my opinion. Having said that, I do not doubt for one instant that there

are women who can be helped by progesterone therapy. For most of us, I

doubt it.

I also went on a true progesterone cream to correct premenopausal symptoms -

and I battled hypoglycemia and persistent fatigue for almost a year

afterward. It took a LONG time to correct the damage. Another thing to

consider is that in my case, anyway, it looks as if my body was using up

it's estrogen because it wasn't getting enough thyroid hormone. I only know

that I felt better when I finally went on estradiol (low dose) but even

better still on Armour - when I was able to drop the estradiol altogether.

Terijo

Message: 19

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 06:06:06 -0000

Subject:

>

> , uterine fibroids are estrogen dependent, as in estrogen

dominance,

> when there's not much progesterone to go around to police it.

Didn't you

> say youre using progesterone cream, or did I dream it? This is

what

> happened to me, and I did have a hyst at the age of 35 or 36. Are

you not

> having heavy, close-together periods at this point in time?

:

Yes, yes, and yes. I am on the progesterone cream because of the

estrogen dominance symptoms -- way heavy bleeding, prolonged

bleeding, terrible breast pain, pms, you name it. It seems to have

helped start alleviating some of the symptoms already but I have

heard from one or two women who said they started on the

progesterone cream and the opposite happened and they were in for a

hysterectomy before they knew what was happening. I have read the

estrogen can kick up for a bit first before settling down but who

knows and then all of a sudden I have fibroids everywhere and the

doctor won't call to confirm that? I'm lost again. And tired, I'd

better go to bed, or I'll be a walking zombie at work again

tomorrow! Are you doing okay with the cream?

[Guest guest]

I just wish someone could explain to me why high estrogen is purportedly the

problem whenever one suffers symptoms most typically experienced during the

low estrogen and high progesterone half of our cycle. The period starts at

all only when estrogen dips low enough and progesterone rises high enough to

trigger it. Water retention, cramping, heavy bleeding, sore breasts etc -

these are common during the low estrogen /high progesterone phase of the

cycle and nowhere to be seen during the high estrogen/low progesterone half

of the cycle.

ALSO the 'estrogen dominance' theory is supposed to affect primarily women

moving into the period of our lives CLINICALLY DEFINED by the drop in

estrogen production - a drop not mirrored by a drop in progesterone levels

for another ten years or so. I read the man's book and it makes sense

unless you consider the above. He has a theory and it very far from proven,

in my opinion. Having said that, I do not doubt for one instant that there

are women who can be helped by progesterone therapy. For most of us, I

doubt it.

I also went on a true progesterone cream to correct premenopausal symptoms -

and I battled hypoglycemia and persistent fatigue for almost a year

afterward. It took a LONG time to correct the damage. Another thing to

consider is that in my case, anyway, it looks as if my body was using up

it's estrogen because it wasn't getting enough thyroid hormone. I only know

that I felt better when I finally went on estradiol (low dose) but even

better still on Armour - when I was able to drop the estradiol altogether.

Terijo

Message: 19

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 06:06:06 -0000

Subject:

>

> , uterine fibroids are estrogen dependent, as in estrogen

dominance,

> when there's not much progesterone to go around to police it.

Didn't you

> say youre using progesterone cream, or did I dream it? This is

what

> happened to me, and I did have a hyst at the age of 35 or 36. Are

you not

> having heavy, close-together periods at this point in time?

:

Yes, yes, and yes. I am on the progesterone cream because of the

estrogen dominance symptoms -- way heavy bleeding, prolonged

bleeding, terrible breast pain, pms, you name it. It seems to have

helped start alleviating some of the symptoms already but I have

heard from one or two women who said they started on the

progesterone cream and the opposite happened and they were in for a

hysterectomy before they knew what was happening. I have read the

estrogen can kick up for a bit first before settling down but who

knows and then all of a sudden I have fibroids everywhere and the

doctor won't call to confirm that? I'm lost again. And tired, I'd

better go to bed, or I'll be a walking zombie at work again

tomorrow! Are you doing okay with the cream?