Re: Burning Fat for Energy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/23/04 4:17:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

chris@... writes:

I have a friend here where I work who is a runner. She was talking how high

carbs is the way to go and described how it worked with the muscles and all

that. Isn't fat equally good and how does the body convert fat into energy while

exercising? ANy info would be great to pass on to her.

Hi

The fat burns primarily fat during endurance exercises, not carbohydrates.

This information can be found in any basic physiology, A & P, whatever, textbook

that discusses the heart, and is basic well-known, agreed-upon knowledge. The

longer the exercise lasts, the higher the proportion of fat is burned and the

lower the proportion of carbohydrates are burned.

I don't have a reference on hand right now. I'll see if I can find one.

Other people who have A & P text books on the list might be able to look it up, as

I'm pretty sure the info would be in there. (Unless they are old beyond a

certain date.)

Chris

[Guest guest]

Athletes involved in endurance sports eat a lot of carbs to replenish

themselves. You'll see them consuming powergels and other things

that are sugar just to keep their muscles going. In multi-day cycling

events like the Tour de France, they consume a lot of pasta every

evening in addition to gels and energy drinks during the day.

I don't think this applies to the rest of the population though. They

aren't spending hours in frequent endurance events and most

people already get too much carbs. Top tier endurance cyclists

and runners have incredibly efficient hearts (e.g. sub-35 bpm

resting pulse is not uncommon) so that may account for them

not needing as much fat as they need carbs.

Burning Fat for Energy

>

> I have a friend here where I work who is a runner. She was talking how

high carbs is the way to go and described how it worked with the muscles and

all that. Isn't fat equally good and how does the body convert fat into

energy while exercising? ANy info would be great to pass on to her.

>

> Thanks

> Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/04 7:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

virgil@... writes:

Athletes involved in endurance sports eat a lot of carbs to replenish

themselves. You'll see them consuming powergels and other things

that are sugar just to keep their muscles going. In multi-day cycling

events like the Tour de France, they consume a lot of pasta every

evening in addition to gels and energy drinks during the day.

_______

But what does it mean that they do this? Who's to say it's effective, or

more effective than eating fat, for example? I think they do this because it's

what the conventional wisdom says to do.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/04 5:55:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

virgil@... writes:

My key point is that they aren't eating much fat during

events. Its a lot of carbs, even coke. There's a

clear consequence of running out of steam that

comes from experience and not from theory.

From what I've read, it seems that burning out, or " hitting the wall " as they

say, is a very common obstacle that athletes have to deal with. I haven't

gotten the impression that most athletes have discovered the best way to avoid

the problem, and it seems probably that most of them have not even tried eating

mostly-fat meals during or before exercise. (How many of these people have

used, say, a smoothie from which most of the calories come from coconut oil?)

Also, there are some writers who are athletes themselves who do not advocate

carb-loading and who advocate the consumption of fat when one is engaging in

endurance exercise.

One point to consider here is that digestion shuts down almost completely

during heavy exercise, so whatever is of practical value will be something that

does not need digestion. So, if one were to try fat, it would have to be

coconut oil or MCT oil, not long-chain fats. Clearly fructose or dextrose would

be

a better option than long-chain fats *during* exercise for the simple reason

that the body can actually use them as they are being consumed. I would be

very surprised if most experienced athletes have tried consuming MCT oil during

exercise or during times of exercise and found that coca-cola works better.

Theory, at least, would suggest otherwise. MCT oil would be broken down for

energy quickly like sugar, but it wouldn't elicit an insulin response.

Insulin opposes the action of adrenalin, so it is hardly something you want

elevated

during a sports competition.

Chris

[Guest guest]

You have a point that conventional wisdom may not be the

best possible way. However athletes in the top

tier have experimented with diets, and carb loading is

what the majority do. But like I said before, this doesn't

apply to the majority of the population. In addition to

carbs, these athletes do eat fat, and eat like gluttons.

Another thing to consider is that for over a decade,

many cyclists have trained/dieted to a dangerous

equilibrium of losing weight to climb mountains stages

but keeping enough muscle to maintain their ability to

perform. They have a pretty good idea of what they need

to eat so that they don't collapse. And they do this

under constant medical supervision.

My key point is that they aren't eating much fat during

events. Its a lot of carbs, even coke. There's a

clear consequence of running out of steam that

comes from experience and not from theory. And my

second point is, it doesn't mean everyone should

eat like them.

Re: Burning Fat for Energy

>

> In a message dated 8/24/04 7:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> virgil@... writes:

> Athletes involved in endurance sports eat a lot of carbs to replenish

> themselves. You'll see them consuming powergels and other things

> that are sugar just to keep their muscles going. In multi-day cycling

> events like the Tour de France, they consume a lot of pasta every

> evening in addition to gels and energy drinks during the day.

> _______

>

> But what does it mean that they do this? Who's to say it's effective, or

> more effective than eating fat, for example? I think they do this because

it's

> what the conventional wisdom says to do.

[Guest guest]

Sorry to rain on someone's page, but a quick fact check shows that

Wolde did not set the record for fastest time. He had a record for

most margin between him and the next place (3 minutes).

http://www.runningtimes.com/issues/02sep/wolde.htm

His time was not a record at that time, and times have improved

a lot since then.

http://www.marathonguide.com/history/records/index.cfm

Re: Burning Fat for Energy

> Hi (I'm new here)

>

> Have you taken a look at Barry Groves' site? He's an honorary Weston A

> Price member. He's got an article on athletics and carbs. He says it's

> a myth that carbohydrate is a good fuel source, and that makes a lot

> of sense to me at least, since before I low carbed I'd get exhausted

> just climbing a flight of stairs!

>

> Here's a quote just to illustrate the point:

>

> Now let's look at a real athlete

>

> It was 1968 at the Mexico City Olympic Games. The spectators at the

> marathon went wild as a relatively unknown Ethiopian, Mamo Wolde, won

> the marathon. Not only was the thirty-six-year-old runner the oldest

> man ever to win this prestigious event, he did it in a time that has

> not been bettered to this day.

>

> So what was Wolde's secret?

>

> Wolde grew up in an Ethiopian village. His life consisted of running

> after and hunting wild game on foot. His diet was one high in animal

> meat and fat, with practically no carbohydrate. Subsequent tests

> showed that Wolde's body, under conditions of physical load, readily

> burned fat as its main energy source. Wolde had no concept of 'hitting

> the wall'. It had never happened to him.

>

> http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/athletic_diet.html

>

>

>

>

> > I have a friend here where I work who is a runner. She was talking

> how high carbs is the way to go and described how it worked with the

> muscles and all that. Isn't fat equally good and how does the body

> convert fat into energy while exercising? ANy info would be great to

> pass on to her.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Chris

> >

[Guest guest]

We won't know if MCT oils are better than simple sugars for the

majority of endurance athletes until someone starts winning with

it & other people can replicate the results. Thats what seems to

happen with training innovations like power meters, aero

equipment, acclimation and supplements. (They don't take

notice until someone beats them). I'm definitely open to the

possibility though.

I know personally I like to stay with the blandedst foods when

cycling or else I feel queasy or burp up. I'm afraid that if I ate

something oily before a trip, I'd need to squeeze something

out halfway through. Having said that, I'll definitely try coconut

oil one day when I have more money.

Since you mentioned adrenalin, what are your experiences

with it? I know that for me adrenalin is something to avoid

unless absolutely necessary.

In cycling and martial arts, we train the adrenalin response

out of our system (to a point!). It increases the chance of

doing something stupid and you can really feel awful

after. I feel the adrenalin " dump " when my life in danger

(cycling) or someone is going to beat me up good. :-)

Re: Burning Fat for Energy

> In a message dated 8/24/04 5:55:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> virgil@... writes:

> My key point is that they aren't eating much fat during

> events. Its a lot of carbs, even coke. There's a

> clear consequence of running out of steam that

> comes from experience and not from theory.

> >From what I've read, it seems that burning out, or " hitting the wall " as

they

> say, is a very common obstacle that athletes have to deal with. I haven't

> gotten the impression that most athletes have discovered the best way to

avoid

> the problem, and it seems probably that most of them have not even tried

eating

> mostly-fat meals during or before exercise. (How many of these people

have

> used, say, a smoothie from which most of the calories come from coconut

oil?)

> Also, there are some writers who are athletes themselves who do not

advocate

> carb-loading and who advocate the consumption of fat when one is engaging

in

> endurance exercise.

>

> One point to consider here is that digestion shuts down almost completely

> during heavy exercise, so whatever is of practical value will be something

that

> does not need digestion. So, if one were to try fat, it would have to be

> coconut oil or MCT oil, not long-chain fats. Clearly fructose or dextrose

would be

> a better option than long-chain fats *during* exercise for the simple

reason

> that the body can actually use them as they are being consumed. I would

be

> very surprised if most experienced athletes have tried consuming MCT oil

during

> exercise or during times of exercise and found that coca-cola works

better.

>

> Theory, at least, would suggest otherwise. MCT oil would be broken down

for

> energy quickly like sugar, but it wouldn't elicit an insulin response.

> Insulin opposes the action of adrenalin, so it is hardly something you

want elevated

> during a sports competition.

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

MCT?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/25/04 12:58:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

virgil@... writes:

Since you mentioned adrenalin, what are your experiences

with it? I know that for me adrenalin is something to avoid

unless absolutely necessary.

In cycling and martial arts, we train the adrenalin response

out of our system (to a point!).

________

Are you saying your adrenaline doesn't increase when you exercise?

I'm not sure how to describe my experience with adrenaline, beyond that it

increases when I exercise, and induces lipolysis and has other physiological

effects that go hand in hand with exercise.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/25/04 3:23:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

But some athletes DO take MCT, and say it works quite well. I know it

does for me (tho I'm no athlete!) ... if I need energy but don't want to eat

a meal, a Tbls. of MCT keeps me going for hours. Coconut oil works too,

I'd guess because it has MCT in it. I don't know why it hasn't caught on more.

Maybe because there is no MCT sponsored athlete ...

______

Not to forget, the conventional wisdom is that if you eat a high-fat meal,

your chance of heart attack during exercise is greatly increased. And I imagine

some people might look at the bottle and say, " Oh my God! All that saturated

fat! "

Chris

[Guest guest]

>I would be

>very surprised if most experienced athletes have tried consuming MCT oil during

>exercise or during times of exercise and found that coca-cola works better.

Chris:

But some athletes DO take MCT, and say it works quite well. I know it

does for me (tho I'm no athlete!) ... if I need energy but don't want to eat

a meal, a Tbls. of MCT keeps me going for hours. Coconut oil works too,

I'd guess because it has MCT in it. I don't know why it hasn't caught on more.

Maybe because there is no MCT sponsored athlete ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:12:03 +1000

" " <sand8013@...> wrote:

> MCT?

>

medium-chain triglycerides

War, the God That Failed

http://tinyurl.com/2npch

" They told just the same,

That just because a tyrant has the might

By force of arms to murder men downright

And burn down house and home and leave all flat

They call the man a captain, just for that.

But since an outlaw with his little band

Cannot bring half such mischief on the land

Or be the cause of so much harm and grief,

He only earns the title of a thief. "

--Geoffrey Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/25/04 11:33:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

moodvirus@... writes:

The fact is, you use up over 2000 calories - all of your glycogen

supplies - in a marathon, therefore you need to be able to burn fat to

reach the finish line. If your insulin levels are too high, your body

chemistry won't let you do this, and you hit a wall.

I agree. But it should be pointed out further that endurance running does

NOT use glycogen as the fuel of choice, but fat. You don't need to run out of

glycogen to burn fat. Your heart *begins* with the preference for fat.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Not to forget, the conventional wisdom is that if you eat a high-fat meal,

>your chance of heart attack during exercise is greatly increased. And I

imagine

>some people might look at the bottle and say, " Oh my God! All that saturated

>fat! "

>

>Chris

The name " triglycerides " got to me! " wow, you mean I'm adding triglycerides

to my blood? Triglycerides are bad! " What did convince me is 1) I lose

weight with them and 2) there are high levels of MCT in breast milk, and

those babies aren't getting heart attacks and 3) it is used with high risk

babies and young children as a fat replacement, because it absorbs well.

One downside though: if you are an older woman, you will SWEAR you

are getting a hot flash when you take MCT! It really increases your

metabolism. Coconut oil does the same, all that MCT...

Heidi Jean