Is this OCD or something else

[Guest guest]

I would like the advice of parents who have experienced incidents

like this with their kids.

My daughter has been diagnosed with OCD (3 years ago). Her symptoms

seem to constantly change. The latest is the worst.

She is usually the most thoughtful, kindest child in the world.

Thanksgiving Day was beautiful. Just the immediate family, nice

quiet dinner and off to the movies. Saw a comedy and all were

laughing.

As she left the theater she saw a " friend " from the past and

started " OCDing " . She insisted that I walk back to the theater and

leave again. When I refused, she became agressive. She pulled my

sweater...took off my necklace and threw it...threw my wallet in the

trashcan....and looked and sounded like she was possessed talking in

a deep tone. She did not hurt me; she was acting with " controlled

agression " not violent. When I tried to get to the car she held on

to my legs. Then I got into the car and she started pounding on the

windows. It did not bother her that dozens of people were watching.

I was afraid that someone would call the police, so I parked the car

and walked back to the theater as she wanted. She then got back into

the car and said " Wasn't that a funny movie, mommy? " as if nothing

had happened.

Is this a part of OCD? What other disorder could this be a sign of?

I have an appointment with her psychiatrist in 3 weeks, but I wanted

some input from you knowledgable parents.

PAH

[Guest guest]

Hi PAH, in my experience with my OCD child this episode seems like plain OCD

to me. Is your child younger? In a way that you may not understand

(because OCD is like that LOL), seeing the friend triggered an obsession,

which brought on sudden anxiety that broadsided your child, which created

the urgent need for your child to do a compulsion to relieve the anxiety.

Being surprised by anxiety like that feels like an attack which can explain

her out of character aggression. Spurred by the need to relieve the

anxiety, she did obnoxious behaviors to force you to cooperate with the

compulsion. IMO this is a particular cross that OCD kids bear--they

frequently must manipulate an adult (parent, teacher, etc.) to be allowed to

do a compulsion. An adult OCDer would just have returned to the theater to

exit " correctly " and relieve their anxiety, I'm assuming your daughter

thought you would not allow her to do this and so was forced to act in an

extreme manner to get you to cooperate.

In my child, out of character behavior has been my most reliable tip-off

that OCD/anxiety is involved in a situation.

I know that the " just right, just so " type of compulsions are pretty common,

after getting it " right " the anxiety vanishes, and then the OCDer may

proceed on as if nothing happened. My child does this, talking about it

" ruins " the " correctness " and she may have to do the thing again. Have you

asked your daughter to talk about this episode and explain what was

happening to her then? She may be able/willing to offer some insight into

it. For example, did she change her voice on purpose, maybe that is OCD's

voice (to her)?

Certainly talk to her doctor about this, but you may also want to consider

that your daughter needs further therapy or perhaps a med adjustment to

reduce her symptoms to a more comfortable level.

Take care,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

> I would like the advice of parents who have experienced incidents

> like this with their kids.

> My daughter has been diagnosed with OCD (3 years ago). Her symptoms

> seem to constantly change. The latest is the worst.

> She is usually the most thoughtful, kindest child in the world.

> Thanksgiving Day was beautiful. Just the immediate family, nice

> quiet dinner and off to the movies. Saw a comedy and all were

> laughing.

> As she left the theater she saw a " friend " from the past and

> started " OCDing " . She insisted that I walk back to the theater and

> leave again. When I refused, she became agressive. She pulled my

> sweater...took off my necklace and threw it...threw my wallet in the

> trashcan....and looked and sounded like she was possessed talking in

> a deep tone. She did not hurt me; she was acting with " controlled

> agression " not violent. When I tried to get to the car she held on

> to my legs. Then I got into the car and she started pounding on the

> windows. It did not bother her that dozens of people were watching.

> I was afraid that someone would call the police, so I parked the car

> and walked back to the theater as she wanted. She then got back into

> the car and said " Wasn't that a funny movie, mommy? " as if nothing

> had happened.

>

> Is this a part of OCD? What other disorder could this be a sign of?

> I have an appointment with her psychiatrist in 3 weeks, but I wanted

> some input from you knowledgable parents.

> PAH

[Guest guest]

Hi PAH, in my experience with my OCD child this episode seems like plain OCD

to me. Is your child younger? In a way that you may not understand

(because OCD is like that LOL), seeing the friend triggered an obsession,

which brought on sudden anxiety that broadsided your child, which created

the urgent need for your child to do a compulsion to relieve the anxiety.

Being surprised by anxiety like that feels like an attack which can explain

her out of character aggression. Spurred by the need to relieve the

anxiety, she did obnoxious behaviors to force you to cooperate with the

compulsion. IMO this is a particular cross that OCD kids bear--they

frequently must manipulate an adult (parent, teacher, etc.) to be allowed to

do a compulsion. An adult OCDer would just have returned to the theater to

exit " correctly " and relieve their anxiety, I'm assuming your daughter

thought you would not allow her to do this and so was forced to act in an

extreme manner to get you to cooperate.

In my child, out of character behavior has been my most reliable tip-off

that OCD/anxiety is involved in a situation.

I know that the " just right, just so " type of compulsions are pretty common,

after getting it " right " the anxiety vanishes, and then the OCDer may

proceed on as if nothing happened. My child does this, talking about it

" ruins " the " correctness " and she may have to do the thing again. Have you

asked your daughter to talk about this episode and explain what was

happening to her then? She may be able/willing to offer some insight into

it. For example, did she change her voice on purpose, maybe that is OCD's

voice (to her)?

Certainly talk to her doctor about this, but you may also want to consider

that your daughter needs further therapy or perhaps a med adjustment to

reduce her symptoms to a more comfortable level.

Take care,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

> I would like the advice of parents who have experienced incidents

> like this with their kids.

> My daughter has been diagnosed with OCD (3 years ago). Her symptoms

> seem to constantly change. The latest is the worst.

> She is usually the most thoughtful, kindest child in the world.

> Thanksgiving Day was beautiful. Just the immediate family, nice

> quiet dinner and off to the movies. Saw a comedy and all were

> laughing.

> As she left the theater she saw a " friend " from the past and

> started " OCDing " . She insisted that I walk back to the theater and

> leave again. When I refused, she became agressive. She pulled my

> sweater...took off my necklace and threw it...threw my wallet in the

> trashcan....and looked and sounded like she was possessed talking in

> a deep tone. She did not hurt me; she was acting with " controlled

> agression " not violent. When I tried to get to the car she held on

> to my legs. Then I got into the car and she started pounding on the

> windows. It did not bother her that dozens of people were watching.

> I was afraid that someone would call the police, so I parked the car

> and walked back to the theater as she wanted. She then got back into

> the car and said " Wasn't that a funny movie, mommy? " as if nothing

> had happened.

>

> Is this a part of OCD? What other disorder could this be a sign of?

> I have an appointment with her psychiatrist in 3 weeks, but I wanted

> some input from you knowledgable parents.

> PAH

[Guest guest]

Hi PAH, my daughter's pdoc has said he sometimes diagnoses by pharmacology,

meaning that if he gives a med that should reduce tics, say, and a behavior

reduces, it can be assumed it was tic related. So the idea of trying out

depakote, to see if the target behavior diminishes and so may be bipolar (or

seizure-related?) in origin, is not too far-fetched I guess.

This is just my opinion, I am not a doctor: the NP seems to be trying to be

both a pdoc (diagnosing a new condition and prescribing a new class of med

for your child) and also a psychodynamic therapist (saying your child has

control issues that need consequenced.) I would also be nervous about this,

and would probably not accept a new diagnosis for my child from an NP,

instead I would ask for her to be evaluated by a child psychiatrist to rule

in or out bipolar disorder. If she is misdiagnosed and doesn't have OCD

after all, or has OCD plus comorbid BP, her med management is going to be

tricky and require an expert.

Does your daughter have a CBT/ERP therapist? If so, why not review this

situation and her behaviors with that person. Or if she doesn't, get her

one, this therapy is very effective to reduce OCD symptoms in children and

the results are long-lasting.

Take care,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

> -Kathy,

> If you read my previous reply to another parent, the nurse practioner

> at the psychiatrist's office told me that this is not OCD and she

> thinks it is Bipolar. She wrote a script for Depakote that I have

> not filled yet. She told me that I had to trust her and work with her

> and try the Depakote. I am nervous about this. The NP also told me

> that my daughter had a " control " issue and had to suffer consequences

> for any behaviors where she tried to exert control over me or any

> other member of the family. I tried to explain to her that when this

> happens in our house, consequences mean nothing----she would give up

> anything or suffer anything rather than give in. That makes me think

> it is the OCD and not a behavior problem.

> PAH--