Guest guest Posted June 10, 2006 Report Posted June 10, 2006 Chris: The only way we have fought rising rates in Illinois is by switching location and applying to multiple insurance carriers, despite our broker's advice to stay with one insurer. We have also been able to contract for part-time rates these are not a full 50% off but lower than full coverage for 20 hours per week. We also apply for loss free credits, emr credits, and discuss the unique aspect of our clinic with any that will listen. That said, the doctor down the street who sees 30+ per day and claims $300,000/ year income with two malpractice suits only has a 15% added premium. Go figure. Good luck: flores chris wrote: Hello -Has anyone had luck in reducing or negotiating downtheir malpractice premium based on the low-volumemicropractice model? I currently have my policythrough The Doctor's Company, and they will beescalating their premiums annually, I believe that isthe standard approach.Any ideas?Rancho Mirage, CAUC Irvine Med School 1990Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Residency 1993No OB, but otherwise full spectrum (peds, adolescents,adults, geriatrics, women's health, etc.)includinghospitalMinor skin procedures - no cosmetic servicesNo insurance or Medicare at all - but assist patientsin obtaining reimbursement if possible1000 SF Office2 exam rooms and a separate interview roomJust my wife (non-medical) and I working together7 months in practice__________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 I also have malpractice through The Doctor's Company and my premiums jumped from about $5000 my first year up to about $12000 this year. They said it would plateau in the 5th year at I forget what price. Since it seemed kind of high, I called and asked if they could reduce my premium since I had a low volume practice. The women I spoke with said they had no adjustments for a low volume practice; they only went by the total number of hours worked. She suggested I write a letter specifying my office hours, and I did, indicating a total of 20 hours per week (their cutoff for a part-time practice). However, even after submitting my request to the "underwriter", she called me back to say they declined to lower the premiums. This was a few months ago and I'm still deciding if I should switch insurers and apply as a part-time practice. I think it's easier to apply as a part-time practice and then expand to a full-time practice rather than the other way around. Good luck and let me know if you have any success at finding a lower premium. SetoSouth Pasadena, CAHello -Has anyone had luck in reducing or negotiating downtheir malpractice premium based on the low-volumemicropractice model? I currently have my policythrough The Doctor's Company, and they will beescalating their premiums annually, I believe that isthe standard approach.Any ideas?Rancho Mirage, CAUC Irvine Med School 1990Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Residency 1993No OB, but otherwise full spectrum (peds, adolescents,adults, geriatrics, women's health, etc.)includinghospitalMinor skin procedures - no cosmetic servicesNo insurance or Medicare at all - but assist patientsin obtaining reimbursement if possible1000 SF Office2 exam rooms and a separate interview roomJust my wife (non-medical) and I working together7 months in practice__________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 I have contacted a couple of insurance companies and have not gotten any positive results pushing the benefits of our practices. However, I agree with that you have to shop around. In the past 3 years, my premiums have gone from $7500 to $10,000 to $12,500. This year, they said my premium would be $13,750 so I went to another company who said they could cover me for $12,100. When I told this to the original insurance agent, he went to bat and got my current malpractice carrier to match that price. All told, I saved $1600 and gave my agent notice that continued escalation of premiums would not be met without my independent investigation of available options. Hopefully, next year, he will remember this and work a little harder for me. By the way, the premiums for FPs in our area ran from a low of $12,100 to a high of $22,000. That’s a huge variation for essentially the same coverage. Again, it pays to shop around. Malpractice Premiums Hello - Has anyone had luck in reducing or negotiating down their malpractice premium based on the low-volume micropractice model? I currently have my policy through The Doctor's Company, and they will be escalating their premiums annually, I believe that is the standard approach. Any ideas? Rancho Mirage, CA UC Irvine Med School 1990 Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Residency 1993 No OB, but otherwise full spectrum (peds, adolescents, adults, geriatrics, women's health, etc.)including hospital Minor skin procedures - no cosmetic services No insurance or Medicare at all - but assist patients in obtaining reimbursement if possible 1000 SF Office 2 exam rooms and a separate interview room Just my wife (non-medical) and I working together 7 months in practice __________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 I DID have success with this, tho’ not quite as I expected. My carrier had no concern whatsoever how many patients I see. But they decreased my premium from $10K /year to $7K per year when I told them how much time I spend with patients. (less is better) From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of flores chris Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 4:51 PM To: Subject: Malpractice Premiums Hello - Has anyone had luck in reducing or negotiating down their malpractice premium based on the low-volume micropractice model? I currently have my policy through The Doctor's Company, and they will be escalating their premiums annually, I believe that is the standard approach. Any ideas? Rancho Mirage, CA UC Irvine Med School 1990 Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Residency 1993 No OB, but otherwise full spectrum (peds, adolescents, adults, geriatrics, women's health, etc.)including hospital Minor skin procedures - no cosmetic services No insurance or Medicare at all - but assist patients in obtaining reimbursement if possible 1000 SF Office 2 exam rooms and a separate interview room Just my wife (non-medical) and I working together 7 months in practice __________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 For those in California I would recommend looking at MIEC (Medical Insurance Exchange of California). I found them to have the lowest rates, after shopping around, and they also have reduced rates for part time (10 hrs/wk and 20 hrs/wk categories). I have found them extremely reasonable. Good luck! R. , M.D., M.P.H.I also have malpractice through The Doctor's Company and my premiums jumped from about $5000 my first year up to about $12000 this year. They said it would plateau in the 5th year at I forget what price. Since it seemed kind of high, I called and asked if they could reduce my premium since I had a low volume practice. The women I spoke with said they had no adjustments for a low volume practice; they only went by the total number of hours worked. She suggested I write a letter specifying my office hours, and I did, indicating a total of 20 hours per week (their cutoff for a part-time practice). However, even after submitting my request to the "underwriter", she called me back to say they declined to lower the premiums. This was a few months ago and I'm still deciding if I should switch insurers and apply as a part-time practice. I think it's easier to apply as a part-time practice and then expand to a full-time practice rather than the other way around. Good luck and let me know if you have any success at finding a lower premium. SetoSouth Pasadena, CAHello -Has anyone had luck in reducing or negotiating downtheir malpractice premium based on the low-volumemicropractice model? I currently have my policythrough The Doctor's Company, and they will beescalating their premiums annually, I believe that isthe standard approach.Any ideas?Rancho Mirage, CAUC Irvine Med School 1990Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Residency 1993No OB, but otherwise full spectrum (peds, adolescents,adults, geriatrics, women's health, etc.)includinghospitalMinor skin procedures - no cosmetic servicesNo insurance or Medicare at all - but assist patientsin obtaining reimbursement if possible1000 SF Office2 exam rooms and a separate interview roomJust my wife (non-medical) and I working together7 months in practice____________________________! ______________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Posted June 11, 2006 For those in California I would recommend looking at MIEC (Medical Insurance Exchange of California). I found them to have the lowest rates, after shopping around, and they also have reduced rates for part time (10 hrs/wk and 20 hrs/wk categories). I have found them extremely reasonable. Good luck! R. , M.D., M.P.H.I also have malpractice through The Doctor's Company and my premiums jumped from about $5000 my first year up to about $12000 this year. They said it would plateau in the 5th year at I forget what price. Since it seemed kind of high, I called and asked if they could reduce my premium since I had a low volume practice. The women I spoke with said they had no adjustments for a low volume practice; they only went by the total number of hours worked. She suggested I write a letter specifying my office hours, and I did, indicating a total of 20 hours per week (their cutoff for a part-time practice). However, even after submitting my request to the "underwriter", she called me back to say they declined to lower the premiums. This was a few months ago and I'm still deciding if I should switch insurers and apply as a part-time practice. I think it's easier to apply as a part-time practice and then expand to a full-time practice rather than the other way around. Good luck and let me know if you have any success at finding a lower premium. SetoSouth Pasadena, CAHello -Has anyone had luck in reducing or negotiating downtheir malpractice premium based on the low-volumemicropractice model? I currently have my policythrough The Doctor's Company, and they will beescalating their premiums annually, I believe that isthe standard approach.Any ideas?Rancho Mirage, CAUC Irvine Med School 1990Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Residency 1993No OB, but otherwise full spectrum (peds, adolescents,adults, geriatrics, women's health, etc.)includinghospitalMinor skin procedures - no cosmetic servicesNo insurance or Medicare at all - but assist patientsin obtaining reimbursement if possible1000 SF Office2 exam rooms and a separate interview roomJust my wife (non-medical) and I working together7 months in practice____________________________! ______________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Posted June 12, 2006 , I am in Ohio, and have coverage through Medical Protective. I ahave just converted from full to part time coverage. Re: Malpractice Premiums I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/06 Quote
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Posted June 12, 2006 , I am in Ohio, and have coverage through Medical Protective. I ahave just converted from full to part time coverage. Re: Malpractice Premiums I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/06 Quote
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Posted June 12, 2006 Absolutely no luck with MLMIC in New York. I tried to get a part time discount. I sent them articles. Back then, I definitely worked less than 20 hours a week (direct patient contact.) I sent them proof of my schedule. I sent them explanations that the rest of the time I did secretarial work, calling insurances, billing that one would not need malpractice insurance for. etc. They said I was not eligible for a part time discount. So, I increased my hours. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Posted June 12, 2006 Absolutely no luck with MLMIC in New York. I tried to get a part time discount. I sent them articles. Back then, I definitely worked less than 20 hours a week (direct patient contact.) I sent them proof of my schedule. I sent them explanations that the rest of the time I did secretarial work, calling insurances, billing that one would not need malpractice insurance for. etc. They said I was not eligible for a part time discount. So, I increased my hours. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Posted June 13, 2006 You are kidding! I am going to have to ask them again, did you get much of a break? Re: Malpractice Premiums , I am in Ohio, and have coverage through Medical Protective. I ahave just converted from full to part time coverage. Re: Malpractice Premiums I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/06 Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Posted June 13, 2006 You are kidding! I am going to have to ask them again, did you get much of a break? Re: Malpractice Premiums , I am in Ohio, and have coverage through Medical Protective. I ahave just converted from full to part time coverage. Re: Malpractice Premiums I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/06 Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Posted June 13, 2006 , I got a 30% reduction for being part time. We explained my micropractice to the agent, and have to write a letter stating that my patient contact hours are 20 hours or less. I also found out that I had been carrying coorporate coverage that I didn't need because I have no full time employees. You can also get a 5% reduction by taking their on-line risk course. There site is down, so I havn't done this yet. HTH. Re: Malpractice Premiums I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/06 Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 6/12/06 Quote
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Posted June 13, 2006 , I got a 30% reduction for being part time. We explained my micropractice to the agent, and have to write a letter stating that my patient contact hours are 20 hours or less. I also found out that I had been carrying coorporate coverage that I didn't need because I have no full time employees. You can also get a 5% reduction by taking their on-line risk course. There site is down, so I havn't done this yet. HTH. Re: Malpractice Premiums I am fairly sure this issue may vary from state to state, but I have has a part-time practice for going on 5 years now and every year I try to find a part-time policy and am told they are not offered anymore. While I know some people who have one, they are "grandfathered in". My former co-worker who has one with Medical Protective (which is occurrence based, so no tail needed) pays $9000 here in Columbus, OH. I have a policy with Medical Protective also and pay $17000 a year. Does anyone have any idea how much a tail costs on the policies you have talked about. I always think of my more expensive policy as being so because I am buying the tail up front. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/06 Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 6/12/06 Quote
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Posted June 13, 2006 I have MLMIC in NY and I did qualify for a substantial discount due to part time (less than 20 hrs per week). Lots of variation here. G At 11:45 AM 6/12/2006, you wrote: Absolutely no luck with MLMIC in New York. I tried to get a part time discount. I sent them articles. Back then, I definitely worked less than 20 hours a week (direct patient contact.) I sent them proof of my schedule. I sent them explanations that the rest of the time I did secretarial work, calling insurances, billing that one would not need malpractice insurance for. etc. They said I was not eligible for a part time discount. So, I increased my hours. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Posted June 13, 2006 I have MLMIC in NY and I did qualify for a substantial discount due to part time (less than 20 hrs per week). Lots of variation here. G At 11:45 AM 6/12/2006, you wrote: Absolutely no luck with MLMIC in New York. I tried to get a part time discount. I sent them articles. Back then, I definitely worked less than 20 hours a week (direct patient contact.) I sent them proof of my schedule. I sent them explanations that the rest of the time I did secretarial work, calling insurances, billing that one would not need malpractice insurance for. etc. They said I was not eligible for a part time discount. So, I increased my hours. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2006 Report Posted June 14, 2006 My husband pointed out that I had been paying the full time rate for 5 years. Why would they let me pay less? By the way, I also sent some of your articles, Gordon. I think their verbal, but not written, response was that if I take call for myself, then I am " working " more than 20 hours per week. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2006 Report Posted June 14, 2006 My husband pointed out that I had been paying the full time rate for 5 years. Why would they let me pay less? By the way, I also sent some of your articles, Gordon. I think their verbal, but not written, response was that if I take call for myself, then I am " working " more than 20 hours per week. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2006 Report Posted June 14, 2006 DISAGREE with counting call in liability. I think liability increases with the number of patients seen per week and patient panel regardless of call.Doctor A 20 hours pat contact hours25 patients seen weekly400 patient panel24/7 call (and 1-2 calls/mo)Doctor B40 + pt contact hours100 patients per week1200 patient panel24/7 call (many calls per week) OR rotating call in call group (usual scenario)Who has more liability risk? Doctor B Liability risk INCREASES in proportion to the following (in order of significance)1) MISCOMMUNICATION (more likely in production driven atmosphere with rotating providers) lack of compassion, human connection, perceived disrespect falls under #12) SYSTEM DYSFUNCTION (production driven atmosphere encouraged more system errors)3) LARGE PATIENT PANEL (increased liability not necessarily even related to higher number pts but certainly related to a production driven atmosphere which leads to #1,2,3)Over and over again I hear at malpractice risk reduction courses that suits have little to do with a bad doc - more to do with system dysfunction, production driven rather than relationship driven atmosphere which PISSES patients off. If patient perceives a bad outcome was related to a doctor who was on a production frenzy to enhance his/her personal salary you can bet they will want to sue ya! Over and over again stats show that even with a bad outcome if patients like you they will have compassion for you despite their outcome and not sue - a RELATIONSHIP model achieves this! SO, L.O.V.E. ideal micropractice model regardless of PT or FT status is best indicator of low liability in my mind. I think PT overall would give lesser liability exposure due to lesser pt load but relationship driven model is the big key here.Maybe we can get PT discount AND MICROPRACTICE discounts eventually!!Pamela That does bring up a good point. Is it the actual office contact hours or total hours in any form of clinical care that qualifies a doctor as part time? If you count being on call (and I think I would argue that you should because you are most definitely still incurring liability then) then I would think very few doctors would qualify for a part time discount. Maybe that is splitting hairs but technically if one takes all of their own call then they are “working” 168 hours per week. Aren’t you still practicing medicine by medical board standards if you answer a patient phone call after hours? Re: Malpractice Premiums My husband pointed out that I had been paying the full time rate for 5 years. Why would they let me pay less? By the way, I also sent some of your articles, Gordon. I think their verbal, but not written, response was that if I take call for myself, then I am "working" more than 20 hours per week.Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2006 Report Posted June 15, 2006 I just asked my current insurance broker about part-time discount and he told me that the definition of part time is 20 hours/week total patient care, not just office but phone calls, hospital, nursing home *and* clinical administrative activities such as reviewing lab results and writing letters to patients. I told him that most doctors would consider 40hrs/ wk to be part time by that definition. He just laughed. > > That does bring up a good point. Is it the actual office contact hours or > total hours in any form of clinical care that qualifies a doctor as part > time? If you count being on call (and I think I would argue that you should > because you are most definitely still incurring liability then) then I would > think very few doctors would qualify for a part time discount. Maybe that > is splitting hairs but technically if one takes all of their own call then > they are " working " 168 hours per week. Aren't you still practicing > medicine by medical board standards if you answer a patient phone call after > hours? > > > > > > > > Re: Malpractice Premiums > > > > My husband pointed out that I had been paying the full time rate for 5 > years. Why would they let me pay less? > By the way, I also sent some of your articles, Gordon. > I think their verbal, but not written, response was that if I take call for > myself, then I am " working " more than 20 hours per week. > > Naureen > Quote
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Posted June 27, 2006 Naureen, I have had part-time (less than 20 hours) malpractice coverage with MLMIC since 2002 and I live in Binghamton, NY. Cost is $2500 and is an occurrence policy at 1.3 Mil/3.9 Mil limit for FP excl surgery and covers colposcopy and end. bx and acup. I had no trouble getting the insurance. I just have to justify my hours each year. I wonder why your weren't able to get it. Janice Pegels Re: Malpractice Premiums Absolutely no luck with MLMIC in New York. I tried to get a part time discount. I sent them articles. Back then, I definitely worked less than 20 hours a week (direct patient contact.) I sent them proof of my schedule. I sent them explanations that the rest of the time I did secretarial work, calling insurances, billing that one would not need malpractice insurance for. etc. They said I was not eligible for a part time discount. So, I increased my hours. Naureen Quote
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Posted June 27, 2006 Naureen, I have had part-time (less than 20 hours) malpractice coverage with MLMIC since 2002 and I live in Binghamton, NY. Cost is $2500 and is an occurrence policy at 1.3 Mil/3.9 Mil limit for FP excl surgery and covers colposcopy and end. bx and acup. I had no trouble getting the insurance. I just have to justify my hours each year. I wonder why your weren't able to get it. Janice Pegels Re: Malpractice Premiums Absolutely no luck with MLMIC in New York. I tried to get a part time discount. I sent them articles. Back then, I definitely worked less than 20 hours a week (direct patient contact.) I sent them proof of my schedule. I sent them explanations that the rest of the time I did secretarial work, calling insurances, billing that one would not need malpractice insurance for. etc. They said I was not eligible for a part time discount. So, I increased my hours. Naureen Quote
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