RE: Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

[Guest guest]

RE Malpractice coverage while moonlighting away from your home office.

You should check with your malpractice carrier to see if your policy covers

you.

When I worked for the hospital in their owned practice, the malpractice only

covered me within their system, so I cancelled my privileges at a nearby

unaffiliated hospital.

My current policy covers ME for medical practice, so I can practice " within

the scope of care " that I registered myself in.

My opinion...

Dr Matt Levin

Pittsburgh, PA

Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

> Does anyone understand how it works to do locums within or without the

> coverage of a corporation?

>

> What I mean by this is....

>

> Clinics usually set themselves up as coprorations or somesuch to protect

> them from personal loss if sued. The Corp gives some protections against

> losing personal assets...at least that is my understanding.

>

> Anyway, if I am part of the clinic that is incorporated and I go moonlight

> and the money is paid to the Corporation, then I should be covered under

> the

> corporation in regards to assets? Yes?

>

> But what if I moonlight outside of the corp? If the money is paid to me

> directly and doesn't go through the corp.

> Does that make me an " independent contractor " without the protection of my

> clinic's corp?

>

> And if so, if I get sued from a patient I see moonlighting, will that

> expose

> my personal assets?

>

> Does this make sense?

>

> Do I need to incorporate myself for when I moonlight outside of my clinic?

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Locke, MD

> Basalt, CO

> University of Kansas Medical School 1991

> Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 1994

> 5 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB,

> Germany]

> Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999

> http://www.alpinemedical.md

> Job Share w/ Wife

> AMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04

> AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04

> AMG went " live " with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE Malpractice coverage while moonlighting away from your home office.

You should check with your malpractice carrier to see if your policy covers

you.

When I worked for the hospital in their owned practice, the malpractice only

covered me within their system, so I cancelled my privileges at a nearby

unaffiliated hospital.

My current policy covers ME for medical practice, so I can practice " within

the scope of care " that I registered myself in.

My opinion...

Dr Matt Levin

Pittsburgh, PA

Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

> Does anyone understand how it works to do locums within or without the

> coverage of a corporation?

>

> What I mean by this is....

>

> Clinics usually set themselves up as coprorations or somesuch to protect

> them from personal loss if sued. The Corp gives some protections against

> losing personal assets...at least that is my understanding.

>

> Anyway, if I am part of the clinic that is incorporated and I go moonlight

> and the money is paid to the Corporation, then I should be covered under

> the

> corporation in regards to assets? Yes?

>

> But what if I moonlight outside of the corp? If the money is paid to me

> directly and doesn't go through the corp.

> Does that make me an " independent contractor " without the protection of my

> clinic's corp?

>

> And if so, if I get sued from a patient I see moonlighting, will that

> expose

> my personal assets?

>

> Does this make sense?

>

> Do I need to incorporate myself for when I moonlight outside of my clinic?

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Locke, MD

> Basalt, CO

> University of Kansas Medical School 1991

> Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 1994

> 5 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB,

> Germany]

> Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999

> http://www.alpinemedical.md

> Job Share w/ Wife

> AMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04

> AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04

> AMG went " live " with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I always use a locum tenens company and they pay for malpractice. They

pay me less but I do locum tenens mostly across the border, in Indiana

and I don't want to carry malpractice for Indiana.

> RE Malpractice coverage while moonlighting away from your home office.

>

> You should check with your malpractice carrier to see if your policy

> covers

> you.

> When I worked for the hospital in their owned practice, the

> malpractice only

> covered me within their system, so I cancelled my privileges at a

> nearby

> unaffiliated hospital.

>

> My current policy covers ME for medical practice, so I can practice

> " within

> the scope of care " that I registered myself in.

>

> My opinion...

>

> Dr Matt Levin

> Pittsburgh, PA

>

> Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

>

>

>> Does anyone understand how it works to do locums within or without the

>> coverage of a corporation?

>>

>> What I mean by this is....

>>

>> Clinics usually set themselves up as coprorations or somesuch to

>> protect

>> them from personal loss if sued. The Corp gives some protections

>> against

>> losing personal assets...at least that is my understanding.

>>

>> Anyway, if I am part of the clinic that is incorporated and I go

>> moonlight

>> and the money is paid to the Corporation, then I should be covered

>> under

>> the

>> corporation in regards to assets? Yes?

>>

>> But what if I moonlight outside of the corp? If the money is paid to

>> me

>> directly and doesn't go through the corp.

>> Does that make me an " independent contractor " without the protection

>> of my

>> clinic's corp?

>>

>> And if so, if I get sued from a patient I see moonlighting, will that

>> expose

>> my personal assets?

>>

>> Does this make sense?

>>

>> Do I need to incorporate myself for when I moonlight outside of my

>> clinic?

>>

>> Thoughts?

>>

>> Locke, MD

>> Basalt, CO

>> University of Kansas Medical School 1991

>> Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 1994

>> 5 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB,

>> Germany]

>> Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999

>> http://www.alpinemedical.md

>> Job Share w/ Wife

>> AMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04

>> AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04

>> AMG went " live " with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I always use a locum tenens company and they pay for malpractice. They

pay me less but I do locum tenens mostly across the border, in Indiana

and I don't want to carry malpractice for Indiana.

> RE Malpractice coverage while moonlighting away from your home office.

>

> You should check with your malpractice carrier to see if your policy

> covers

> you.

> When I worked for the hospital in their owned practice, the

> malpractice only

> covered me within their system, so I cancelled my privileges at a

> nearby

> unaffiliated hospital.

>

> My current policy covers ME for medical practice, so I can practice

> " within

> the scope of care " that I registered myself in.

>

> My opinion...

>

> Dr Matt Levin

> Pittsburgh, PA

>

> Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

>

>

>> Does anyone understand how it works to do locums within or without the

>> coverage of a corporation?

>>

>> What I mean by this is....

>>

>> Clinics usually set themselves up as coprorations or somesuch to

>> protect

>> them from personal loss if sued. The Corp gives some protections

>> against

>> losing personal assets...at least that is my understanding.

>>

>> Anyway, if I am part of the clinic that is incorporated and I go

>> moonlight

>> and the money is paid to the Corporation, then I should be covered

>> under

>> the

>> corporation in regards to assets? Yes?

>>

>> But what if I moonlight outside of the corp? If the money is paid to

>> me

>> directly and doesn't go through the corp.

>> Does that make me an " independent contractor " without the protection

>> of my

>> clinic's corp?

>>

>> And if so, if I get sued from a patient I see moonlighting, will that

>> expose

>> my personal assets?

>>

>> Does this make sense?

>>

>> Do I need to incorporate myself for when I moonlight outside of my

>> clinic?

>>

>> Thoughts?

>>

>> Locke, MD

>> Basalt, CO

>> University of Kansas Medical School 1991

>> Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 1994

>> 5 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB,

>> Germany]

>> Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999

>> http://www.alpinemedical.md

>> Job Share w/ Wife

>> AMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04

>> AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04

>> AMG went " live " with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Matt.

Having my malpractice cover me in the office and as a locum isn't the

issue...but yes, I have checked with my malpractice and for the locum type

practice I am doing, they have said they will cover me.

I'm more concerned that if I get sued by working outside the office and

getting paid directly (check made to " Locke, MD " and not to " XYZ

Clinic, Inc " that I will somehow be designated as working outside the

protection of my Corporation.

I'll probably talk to Copic and my medical attorney, but thought someone

might have experienced this.

Cheers

Locke

Re: Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

RE Malpractice coverage while moonlighting away from your home office.

You should check with your malpractice carrier to see if your policy covers

you.

When I worked for the hospital in their owned practice, the malpractice only

covered me within their system, so I cancelled my privileges at a nearby

unaffiliated hospital.

My current policy covers ME for medical practice, so I can practice " within

the scope of care " that I registered myself in.

My opinion...

Dr Matt Levin

Pittsburgh, PA

Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

> Does anyone understand how it works to do locums within or without the

> coverage of a corporation?

>

> What I mean by this is....

>

> Clinics usually set themselves up as coprorations or somesuch to protect

> them from personal loss if sued. The Corp gives some protections against

> losing personal assets...at least that is my understanding.

>

> Anyway, if I am part of the clinic that is incorporated and I go moonlight

> and the money is paid to the Corporation, then I should be covered under

> the

> corporation in regards to assets? Yes?

>

> But what if I moonlight outside of the corp? If the money is paid to me

> directly and doesn't go through the corp.

> Does that make me an " independent contractor " without the protection of my

> clinic's corp?

>

> And if so, if I get sued from a patient I see moonlighting, will that

> expose

> my personal assets?

>

> Does this make sense?

>

> Do I need to incorporate myself for when I moonlight outside of my clinic?

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Locke, MD

> Basalt, CO

> University of Kansas Medical School 1991

> Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 1994

> 5 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB,

> Germany]

> Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999

> http://www.alpinemedical.md

> Job Share w/ Wife

> AMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04

> AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04

> AMG went " live " with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE Coverage outside office.

Seems like you're looking at corporate protection vs your working outside of

corporation.

Bottom line as it was explained to me is that malpractice is the biggest

risk, corporate malpractice binder (which I have) covers my employees for

acts in the corporate name in malpractice.

Corporate insurance covers slip and fall, physical plant, etc, that would

have to come from the place you work at.

I know you're asking if the income from the moonlighting going directly to

you would be reachable-- the malpractice covers YOU, and risk, not the

income generated, I would think.

If it was only the money you brought home from moonlighting that was at

risk, well, that would be alot more accountable anyway, and insurance

wouldn't cost so much? ;-)

Check with the insurer, of course.

Dr Matt Levin

Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

>

>

>> Does anyone understand how it works to do locums within or without the

>> coverage of a corporation?

>>

>> What I mean by this is....

>>

>> Clinics usually set themselves up as coprorations or somesuch to protect

>> them from personal loss if sued. The Corp gives some protections against

>> losing personal assets...at least that is my understanding.

>>

>> Anyway, if I am part of the clinic that is incorporated and I go

>> moonlight

>> and the money is paid to the Corporation, then I should be covered under

>> the

>> corporation in regards to assets? Yes?

>>

>> But what if I moonlight outside of the corp? If the money is paid to me

>> directly and doesn't go through the corp.

>> Does that make me an " independent contractor " without the protection of

>> my

>> clinic's corp?

>>

>> And if so, if I get sued from a patient I see moonlighting, will that

>> expose

>> my personal assets?

>>

>> Does this make sense?

>>

>> Do I need to incorporate myself for when I moonlight outside of my

>> clinic?

>>

>> Thoughts?

>>

>> Locke, MD

>> Basalt, CO

>> University of Kansas Medical School 1991

>> Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 1994

>> 5 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB,

>> Germany]

>> Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999

>> http://www.alpinemedical.md

>> Job Share w/ Wife

>> AMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04

>> AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04

>> AMG went " live " with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I spoke to a health care attorney here in Ohio. He says that incorporated or not, it doesn't protect you from professional malpractice. It DOES protect your personal assets if there is some non-professional service type of suit (someone falls in the office etc...). He says that based on previous cases (there is a legal term for this that I don't recall) the corporation doesn't protect your personal assets should you commit malpractice. He also says that it would be very unusual for there to be a award greater than your malpractice liability limit. He charged me $350 for that, so I hope it helps.

[Guest guest]

Ditto. My lawyer said that incorporation does NOT protect you from professional liability (i.e. malpractice). The laywer charged me $100/hr for the consultation. And then $300 to fill out a couple of forms, not including the fees that the state imposes on incorporation. I think the whole thing cost about $700. I later found out that you can incorporate yourself--just find the forms and fill it out. Questions about how to fill the forms out? Ask your state business incorporation office. I got incorporated as a PLLC: professional limitetd liabilitility corporation (aka an LLC, limited liability corporation). This where collaboration might come handy. Find a few docs in your State who are starting the same type of practice as you are, and as a little group, do some research, and talk about it together. Then just have one of you go to talk to

a lawyer and an accountant. The rest can take the same advice. Split the cost of the lawyer and accountant fees. We're not talking about complex incorporation scheme, like C or S structures. This is not like IBM or something. So you don't need in depth individividual consultations wiith each costing $350/hr. I think it's good to talk to both a lawyer and an account because they bring different perspective to the incorporation process: one from a legal standpoint, the other from a money/tax standpoint. And the accountant can tell you how to file as a business entity with the local and county courts because you'll need to pay County business tax as well. Incorporation laws are State-specific. What applies to your cousin in Nevada, does not apply you in Montana, unless you incorporate your business as a Nevada business. Once you figure out what your corporate entity is, do the forms yourself. That's how I would save money if I had to do it all over again. mkcl6@... wrote: I spoke to a health care attorney here in Ohio. He says that incorporated or not, it doesn't protect you from professional malpractice. It DOES protect your personal assets if there is some non-professional service type of suit (someone falls in the office etc...). He says that based on previous cases (there is a legal term for this that I don't recall) the corporation doesn't protect your personal assets should you commit malpractice. He also says that it would be very unusual for there to be a award greater than

your malpractice liability limit. He charged me $350 for that, so I hope it helps.

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, .

That is somewhat my understanding, but I thought the corporation did give your personal assets some protection in a malpractice suit, but I must have been wrong.

I'll double check.

Cheers

Locke

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of mkcl6@...Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:43 AMTo: Subject: Re: Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

I spoke to a health care attorney here in Ohio. He says that incorporated or not, it doesn't protect you from professional malpractice. It DOES protect your personal assets if there is some non-professional service type of suit (someone falls in the office etc...). He says that based on previous cases (there is a legal term for this that I don't recall) the corporation doesn't protect your personal assets should you commit malpractice. He also says that it would be very unusual for there to be a award greater than your malpractice liability limit. He charged me $350 for that, so I hope it helps.

[Guest guest]

Yes, a corp will definitely protect your

personal assets. If that were not the case then someone could sue any

large company, say General Motors, and their president/CEO could lose his personal

assets, which is obviously not the case. A corp may not be a fail-proof

shield but it helps (as does an LLC, etc).

DB

Re:

Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

I spoke to a health care attorney here in Ohio. He says that

incorporated or not, it doesn't protect you from professional

malpractice. It DOES protect your personal assets if there is some

non-professional service type of suit (someone falls in the office

etc...). He says that based on previous cases (there is a legal term for

this that I don't recall) the corporation doesn't protect your personal assets

should you commit malpractice. He also says that it would be very unusual

for there to be a award greater than your malpractice liability limit. He

charged me $350 for that, so I hope it helps.

[Guest guest]

This issue is covered in detail on

www.nolo.com

Great place to go for generic legal advice, and they do of course

recommend that you check with State law.

G

At 10:05 AM 5/1/2006, you wrote:

Yes, a corp will definitely protect your personal assets. If that

were not the case then someone could sue any large company, say General

Motors, and their president/CEO could lose his personal assets, which is

obviously not the case. A corp may not be a fail-proof shield but

it helps (as does an LLC, etc).

DB

Re: Independent Contractor &

Locum Tenens

I spoke to a health care attorney here in Ohio. He says that

incorporated or not, it doesn't protect you from professional

malpractice. It DOES protect your personal assets if there is some

non-professional service type of suit (someone falls in the office

etc...). He says that based on previous cases (there is a legal

term for this that I don't recall) the corporation doesn't protect your

personal assets should you commit malpractice. He also says that it

would be very unusual for there to be a award greater than your

malpractice liability limit. He charged me $350 for that, so I hope

it helps.

[Guest guest]

I was too lazy to google it earlier, but here is what FPM says...

Thanks for everyone personal inputs so far.

Locke.

http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20050400/ask.html

Choosing the right legal structure

Q I am setting up a legal structure for my practice. What options do I have?

AThe most common choices are a sole proprietorship, a partnership, a limited liability company (LLC) or a corporation. Forming and operating a corporation or an LLC is more complicated and costly than a sole proprietorship or partnership, but these structures limit the owners' personal liability for business debts and court judgments against the business. Corporations and LLCs are good options for business owners who run a risk of being sued by customers or clients or piling up a lot of business debt, or who have a lot of personal assets they want to protect from business creditors.

For more information, go to the Small Business Administration Web site at http://www.sba.gov or call .

HenryAAFPLeawood, Kan

http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20051100/42choo.html

Protecting yourself

Physicians looking at practice entity options should make certain they understand the degree to which they may be liable for malpractice or creditor problems that occur within the practice. Limiting your liability exposure is a laudable goal, but keep in mind that you cannot limit your personal liability for your own professional negligence or malpractice by operating as a particular type of entity. However, operating as a PC, LLP or LLC generally can protect you against personal liability for malpractice committed by another physician in the practice. (General partnerships do not offer this protection, while sole proprietorships do not need this protection.) Additionally, if you are a shareholder of a PC or member of an LLC, you will generally not be held personally liable for claims against the practice.

The two main factors to consider areliability protection and financial implications.

In matters of financial liability involving creditors, the distinction between an LLC and an LLP is also important. An LLP will generally not protect members against creditors of the LLP itself, whereas members of an LLC are generally liable only to the extent of their investment in the company. For these reasons, group practices often prefer PCs, which provide for complete protection against financial creditors other than the IRS, or LLCs.

Practice entities at a glance

Sole proprietorship

General partnership

Limited liability company (LLC)

Limited liability partnership (LLP)

Professional corporation (C corporation)

Professional corporation (S corporation)

Provides personal liability protection from one's own negligence

No

No

No

No

No

No

Provides personal liability protection from a partner's negligence

N/A

No

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Provides personal liability protection from claims against the practice

No

No

Yes

No

Yes

Yes

Provides personal liability protection from creditors

No

No

Yes, except to the extent of one's investment in the LLC

No

Yes

Yes

Taxation rules

Net income passed through to owner

Net income passed through to partners

Net income passed through to members

Net income passed through to partners

35-percent tax on net income

Net income passed through to shareholders

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Brock DOSent: Monday, May 01, 2006 7:06 AMTo: Subject: RE: Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

Yes, a corp will definitely protect your personal assets. If that were not the case then someone could sue any large company, say General Motors, and their president/CEO could lose his personal assets, which is obviously not the case. A corp may not be a fail-proof shield but it helps (as does an LLC, etc).

DB

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Locke's in ColoradoSent: Monday, May 01, 2006 8:50 AMTo: Subject: RE: Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

Thanks, .

That is somewhat my understanding, but I thought the corporation did give your personal assets some protection in a malpractice suit, but I must have been wrong.

I'll double check.

Cheers

Locke

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of mkcl6@...Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:43 AMTo: Subject: Re: Independent Contractor & Locum Tenens

I spoke to a health care attorney here in Ohio. He says that incorporated or not, it doesn't protect you from professional malpractice. It DOES protect your personal assets if there is some non-professional service type of suit (someone falls in the office etc...). He says that based on previous cases (there is a legal term for this that I don't recall) the corporation doesn't protect your personal assets should you commit malpractice. He also says that it would be very unusual for there to be a award greater than your malpractice liability limit. He charged me $350 for that, so I hope it helps.