Guest guest Posted July 22, 2001 Report Share Posted July 22, 2001 I don't know about running a 5K, but I just put in 20 laps on Saturday at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on my bike for a charity bike event. I ate plain old oatmeal with fresh strawberries and a protein drink an hour before I rode. I think I could have gone longer, but the heat and humidity took it's toll. MP > Anyone have any idea of what I should eat if I want to enhance my > aerobic workout? In other words, I will be running a 5K next week > and want the best time possible. The last race I consumed a Myoplex > shake about 1 hr before the run with some real coffee added to it and > I seemed to have all the energy I needed. I was just wondering if I > should do anything more, like some extra carbs. > > Andyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2001 Report Share Posted July 22, 2001 I don't know about running a 5K, but I just put in 20 laps on Saturday at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on my bike for a charity bike event. I ate plain old oatmeal with fresh strawberries and a protein drink an hour before I rode. I think I could have gone longer, but the heat and humidity took it's toll. MP > Anyone have any idea of what I should eat if I want to enhance my > aerobic workout? In other words, I will be running a 5K next week > and want the best time possible. The last race I consumed a Myoplex > shake about 1 hr before the run with some real coffee added to it and > I seemed to have all the energy I needed. I was just wondering if I > should do anything more, like some extra carbs. > > Andyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2001 Report Share Posted July 22, 2001 I don't know about running a 5K, but I just put in 20 laps on Saturday at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on my bike for a charity bike event. I ate plain old oatmeal with fresh strawberries and a protein drink an hour before I rode. I think I could have gone longer, but the heat and humidity took it's toll. MP > Anyone have any idea of what I should eat if I want to enhance my > aerobic workout? In other words, I will be running a 5K next week > and want the best time possible. The last race I consumed a Myoplex > shake about 1 hr before the run with some real coffee added to it and > I seemed to have all the energy I needed. I was just wondering if I > should do anything more, like some extra carbs. > > Andyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 You're right, the standard " wisdom " on the subject is to have carbs after the workout. However, bear in mind that even in BFL you're not supposed to have carbs *immediately* after the workout - and on this BFL and NHE overlap. Faigin argues to have protein and good fat immediately after a workout, BUT you're allowed to have carbs later on. To reiterate: *both* BFL and NHE stipulate no carbs immediately following the workout. Regards, Andy > Andy, > > I don't particularly want to stir up the debate on post-workout carbs but I was just reading the August 2001 issue of Muscle & Fitness and this is what they have to say about it: > > Don't skimp on your postworkout carbohydrate intake. After high- intensity training, your cellular environment is primed for packing away glucose with water as stored glycogen. By limiting your carbs in the minutes and hours after a training session, you can't capitalize on this cell-volumizing opportunity. The carb-induced insulin spike will shift your from catabolism to anabolism more quickly after your workout by limiting your production of the stress hormone cortisol. You'll also burn fat as fuel for hours after a hard workout while your body completes the conversion process of changing glucose into glycogen. So after an hour of drop sets, supersets and interval training, make sure you get adequate carbs (60- 100 grams) along with your protein after the workout -- this is the RIGHT time to have your biggest carb meal of the day. > > I would say that not everyone agrees with NHE's stand on eating only protein and fat after a workout. > > Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 I should add, too, that if you read that little snippet more closely, you'll see that it disagrees with BFL as well, because it (the article) seems to be suggesting you eat right after a workout, whereas in BFL you're supposed to wait 1 hour. Andy > Andy, > > I don't particularly want to stir up the debate on post-workout carbs but I was just reading the August 2001 issue of Muscle & Fitness and this is what they have to say about it: > > Don't skimp on your postworkout carbohydrate intake. After high- intensity training, your cellular environment is primed for packing away glucose with water as stored glycogen. By limiting your carbs in the minutes and hours after a training session, you can't capitalize on this cell-volumizing opportunity. The carb-induced insulin spike will shift your from catabolism to anabolism more quickly after your workout by limiting your production of the stress hormone cortisol. You'll also burn fat as fuel for hours after a hard workout while your body completes the conversion process of changing glucose into glycogen. So after an hour of drop sets, supersets and interval training, make sure you get adequate carbs (60- 100 grams) along with your protein after the workout -- this is the RIGHT time to have your biggest carb meal of the day. > > I would say that not everyone agrees with NHE's stand on eating only protein and fat after a workout. > > Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 Tom, < Hey guys, I thought I was getting this thing down, but I opened my mail this morning and read several conflicting posts concerning carb consumption after a workout. I'm looking for max fat burn > Both BFL and NHE (the eating plan I go by) stipulate no carbs immediately following the workout, so that's a non-issue. < so I work out in the morning, shower, dress, and go to the office so my first meal is by necessity about an hour after my workout. > Wouldn't have to be. You could come to your workout with a protein shake ready to go, also including some Udo's or other such good-fat oil. When you're done your workout you gulp down that shake and there's your first meal. Because there are no carbs it won't interfere with fat-burning, and it will expedite the restoration of amino acids to your muscles. Now at first blush someone might say that conflicts with BFL because every meal is supposed to have both a protein and a carb. Not so. We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you want to maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your meals. The difference is that I'm suggesting it should be the first meal, whereas most others would likely say the last meal. Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 , Please see my response to Tom before you prejudge, and note my lack of insulting language in my reply to you. Apparently you'd rather just create arguments than actually listen to what someone is saying. Both BFL and NHE stipulate no carbs immediately following the workout. Tom asked about carb consumption following workouts, and in that vein I answered within BFL principles. I added the feature of a protein-and-fat shake immediately post- workout, but that also is based on science and falls within the range of BFL tweaks. What will hinder the fat-burning effect post-workout is an immediate insulin spike, but the protein-and-fat shake doesn't give rise to that. It's also strange that you would accuse me of not being altruistic just because I have a different point of view - as if you and I disagreeing somehow translates into my not having a genuine interest in helping anyone. That's not only ungracious to me, it's also illogical. < I have asked him to scientifically prove the value of NHE, and he has never been able to do it. > I have referred you and others repeatedly to Rob Faigin's site where you can find out more, but apparently you haven't bothered. There's enough information already there to give you some indication as to whether or not he's knowledgeable in the field in which he writes. Once again, the site is http://www.extique.com/nhe.html . If this is insufficient, I suppose I could also begin citing NHE's scientific documentation, which is rather extensive. I also find it interesting that aside from your useless and baseless railing against me, you never actually responded to Tom's request for help, despite ostensibly being the more altruistic between the two of us. Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 As someone pointed out earlier, the book says not to have anything to eat for one hour after cardio. I don't generally follow this advice though. Not that I don't agree with it, but I do my cardio in the morning and then eat my first meal before I go to work so I don't have time to wait 1 hr unless I get up earlier. Sounds to me like you are doing it to maximize your efforts and there is nothing in the BFL book that says you can't have carbs after the post workout meal. Andyman Hey guys, I thought I was getting this thing down, but I opened my mail this morning and read several conflicting posts concerning carb consumption after a workout. I'm looking for max fat burn so I work out in the morning, shower, dress, and go to the office so my first meal is by necessity about an hour after my workout. I'm working hard at this and want to maximize my efforts. Should I be having lots of carbs at that first meal or almost none. Confused again. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 Jen, why are you doing BFL? What does "fallen off track" mean? Is it with the workouts only or eating too? Your message only includes the workouts. How are they slipping? Wanting to help... Brett From: Tojo Foxy Help, For about almost 2 weeks now i have fallen off track. I have been slipping with my workouts and aroebic. can you guyd please help me get back on track. PLEASE> Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 All, re: " We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you want to maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your meals. " I was looking in thie BFL book and couldn't find this. Did I miss something? I want to lose a lot of fat, should I be skipping the carbs in a meal because if so I'm messing up. Jeanne > Tom, > > < Hey guys, I thought I was getting this thing down, but I opened my > mail this morning and read several conflicting posts concerning carb > consumption after a workout. I'm looking for max fat burn > > > Both BFL and NHE (the eating plan I go by) stipulate no carbs > immediately following the workout, so that's a non-issue. > > < so I work out in the morning, shower, dress, and go to the office > so my first meal is by necessity about an hour after my workout. > > > Wouldn't have to be. You could come to your workout with a protein > shake ready to go, also including some Udo's or other such good-fat > oil. When you're done your workout you gulp down that shake and > there's your first meal. Because there are no carbs it won't > interfere with fat-burning, and it will expedite the restoration of > amino acids to your muscles. > > Now at first blush someone might say that conflicts with BFL because > every meal is supposed to have both a protein and a carb. Not so. > We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you want to > maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your meals. > The difference is that I'm suggesting it should be the first meal, > whereas most others would likely say the last meal. > > Regards, > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > Sounds to me like you are doing it to maximize your efforts and there > is nothing in the BFL book that says you can't have carbs after the > post workout meal. > > Andyman No, but Bill later amended that. It was talked about on this list quite a while ago, perhaps before you were here. Regards, AndyD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > Sounds to me like you are doing it to maximize your efforts and there > is nothing in the BFL book that says you can't have carbs after the > post workout meal. > > Andyman No, but Bill later amended that. It was talked about on this list quite a while ago, perhaps before you were here. Regards, AndyD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Jen, I noticed in that meal log that your meals are somewhat tightly spaced together. When do you work out and when do you go to bed? Regards, Andy > > Hi Brett, > i am on BFL becuase i want to lose weight, tone down and become slighlty defined. I have not been slipping on my meals. Infact i have mastered that. I think i going off track becuase im to lazy. Today i meet with a trainer. so starting to day he will train me. I think i need someone to push me and be there with me. I was to lazy and didn't putt my all into it. but now i am putting everything i have, my heart and soul. I really want to do this. See the thing is that im really heavy which is no excuse but its slows me down and i have less confidence in everything i do. So hopefully with my new trainer i will get that drive i need. I would love to here from you on your thoughts. Thanks for your help. > Also i just wanted to lay my meal plain down to see if its ok. > 7.30am-palm size thin Top sirlion w/ Palm siz bake potato & lots of salad. > 9.30-10am-whole wheat tortila w/ lean ham or Palm siz lean meat & lots of salad. > 12.00pm-palm size salmon w/ palm siz bake patato & salad (love salad) > 2.00pm-NITRO-TECH high protien bar > 4.00pm- 1 slice lean ham w/ 2-3 small fat free no sodium water crackers. > 6.00pm- salad w/ brown rice (palmsize) w/ top sirlion meat(lean & thin) > Thanks for your help > jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Jen, I noticed in that meal log that your meals are somewhat tightly spaced together. When do you work out and when do you go to bed? Regards, Andy > > Hi Brett, > i am on BFL becuase i want to lose weight, tone down and become slighlty defined. I have not been slipping on my meals. Infact i have mastered that. I think i going off track becuase im to lazy. Today i meet with a trainer. so starting to day he will train me. I think i need someone to push me and be there with me. I was to lazy and didn't putt my all into it. but now i am putting everything i have, my heart and soul. I really want to do this. See the thing is that im really heavy which is no excuse but its slows me down and i have less confidence in everything i do. So hopefully with my new trainer i will get that drive i need. I would love to here from you on your thoughts. Thanks for your help. > Also i just wanted to lay my meal plain down to see if its ok. > 7.30am-palm size thin Top sirlion w/ Palm siz bake potato & lots of salad. > 9.30-10am-whole wheat tortila w/ lean ham or Palm siz lean meat & lots of salad. > 12.00pm-palm size salmon w/ palm siz bake patato & salad (love salad) > 2.00pm-NITRO-TECH high protien bar > 4.00pm- 1 slice lean ham w/ 2-3 small fat free no sodium water crackers. > 6.00pm- salad w/ brown rice (palmsize) w/ top sirlion meat(lean & thin) > Thanks for your help > jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > All, re: " We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you > want to > maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your > meals. " I was looking in thie BFL book and couldn't find this. Did I > miss something? I want to lose a lot of fat, should I be skipping > the carbs in a meal because if so I'm messing up. Jeanne Read: http://www.hussman.com/eas/ Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > All, re: " We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you > want to > maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your > meals. " I was looking in thie BFL book and couldn't find this. Did I > miss something? I want to lose a lot of fat, should I be skipping > the carbs in a meal because if so I'm messing up. Jeanne Read: http://www.hussman.com/eas/ Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > I have been to that site, looked at every page. I did NOT see one CLINICAL > reference ANYWHERE (barring the 1990 NJoM article... nice touch, but of no > significant value). I did NOT see a single study referenced. Did you read the endorsements? > Lastly, the program that Mr. Faigin suggests would increase your ketone > levels, increase your glucose output through urination, AND increase your > protein output in urination. Not to mention the nice attack it'll do on the > liver: LDH levels WILL rise, as well as AST and ALT. These hgiher than > normal protein intake ratios have been clinically proven time and time again > to lead to liver disease due to the rise in isoenzymes (LDH, AST, and ALT). What " higher than normal " protein levels do you think Faigin has in mind? > SO, FOR THE LAST TIME... STOP POSTING ABOUT NHE. IT IS AN UNSAFE METHOD > *ESPECIALLY* FOR THOSE NEW TO FITNESS. If that's the case, why does Bill endorse a similar plan in MM magazine? And by the way, YOU ARE NOT THE LIST-OWNER, so you really have no business telling me " for the last time stop posting about NHE. " Ever since you've arrived here you've acted like you own the thing. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > Lastly, the program that Mr. Faigin suggests would increase your ketone > levels, So? Faigin writes: " Dr. Atkins is credited with having popularized ketones, and the sticks you buy at the drug store, which when peed upon, turn purplish if ketones are present in the urine. Ketone testing has added a much needed element of suspenseful fascination to the otherwise boring and mundane urinary process. Nonetheless, the significance of ketosis for fat burning is overrated in general; and, specifically, it has limited relevance to the NHE Eating Plan. " The questions I get on this subject fall into two categories. 1) NHE practitioners who test negative; and, therefore, infer that they must be doing something wrong. 2) NHE practitioners who test positive; and, therefore, infer that they must be doing something wrong. Both of these groups are wrong in drawing this conclusion. (Logic suggests that there are two other groups of people who test either positive or negative; and, therefore infer that they are doing everything right. This conclusion, too, is unwarranted, but these folks are less motivated to inquire because they believe based on the results of the ketone test that they are succeeding rather than failing - which may or may not be the case.) " To those who fear ketosis because supposedly it is dangerous (and are not diabetic nor have any other metabolic condition): ketosis is neither the hazardous nor unhealthy condition that the high- carbohydrate folks insist on saying it is. " To those who fear ketosis because they believe that ketosis is a catabolic state: it's not. However, chronic low-carbohydrate consumption, which coincides with ketosis, precludes optimal anabolic hormonal enhancement (see p. 139 of NHE). The NHE Eating Plan is not a " chronic " but rather a " cyclical " low-carbohydrate diet, and it is designed to be more anabolic (and more lipolytic), calorie-for- calorie, than a chronic low or high carbohydrate diet. " http://www.extique.com/askrob0-1.htm#0-1-3-1 " I want to clarify that the NHE Eating Plan is not a ketogenic diet per se. Ketosis occurs only 1) during the metabolic-shift period, and 2) mildly in some individuals at the tail end of the downcycle. My objections to a conventional low-carbohydrate diet are detailed on p. 139 of NHE. Furthermore, as evidence mounts showing the profoundly healthful properties of phytochemicals found in fruits and vegetables, I become increasingly convinced that a ketogenic diet (which severely limits intake of many phytochemical-rich foods) is inconsistent with optimal health. " http://www.extique.com/askrob2-1.htm#2-1-1-1 > increase your glucose output through urination, AND increase your > protein output in urination. Not to mention the nice attack it'll do on the > liver: LDH levels WILL rise, as well as AST and ALT. I'll get back to you on these. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > Lastly, the program that Mr. Faigin suggests would increase your ketone > levels, So? Faigin writes: " Dr. Atkins is credited with having popularized ketones, and the sticks you buy at the drug store, which when peed upon, turn purplish if ketones are present in the urine. Ketone testing has added a much needed element of suspenseful fascination to the otherwise boring and mundane urinary process. Nonetheless, the significance of ketosis for fat burning is overrated in general; and, specifically, it has limited relevance to the NHE Eating Plan. " The questions I get on this subject fall into two categories. 1) NHE practitioners who test negative; and, therefore, infer that they must be doing something wrong. 2) NHE practitioners who test positive; and, therefore, infer that they must be doing something wrong. Both of these groups are wrong in drawing this conclusion. (Logic suggests that there are two other groups of people who test either positive or negative; and, therefore infer that they are doing everything right. This conclusion, too, is unwarranted, but these folks are less motivated to inquire because they believe based on the results of the ketone test that they are succeeding rather than failing - which may or may not be the case.) " To those who fear ketosis because supposedly it is dangerous (and are not diabetic nor have any other metabolic condition): ketosis is neither the hazardous nor unhealthy condition that the high- carbohydrate folks insist on saying it is. " To those who fear ketosis because they believe that ketosis is a catabolic state: it's not. However, chronic low-carbohydrate consumption, which coincides with ketosis, precludes optimal anabolic hormonal enhancement (see p. 139 of NHE). The NHE Eating Plan is not a " chronic " but rather a " cyclical " low-carbohydrate diet, and it is designed to be more anabolic (and more lipolytic), calorie-for- calorie, than a chronic low or high carbohydrate diet. " http://www.extique.com/askrob0-1.htm#0-1-3-1 " I want to clarify that the NHE Eating Plan is not a ketogenic diet per se. Ketosis occurs only 1) during the metabolic-shift period, and 2) mildly in some individuals at the tail end of the downcycle. My objections to a conventional low-carbohydrate diet are detailed on p. 139 of NHE. Furthermore, as evidence mounts showing the profoundly healthful properties of phytochemicals found in fruits and vegetables, I become increasingly convinced that a ketogenic diet (which severely limits intake of many phytochemical-rich foods) is inconsistent with optimal health. " http://www.extique.com/askrob2-1.htm#2-1-1-1 > increase your glucose output through urination, AND increase your > protein output in urination. Not to mention the nice attack it'll do on the > liver: LDH levels WILL rise, as well as AST and ALT. I'll get back to you on these. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > SO, FOR THE LAST TIME... STOP POSTING ABOUT NHE. IT IS AN UNSAFE METHOD > *ESPECIALLY* FOR THOSE NEW TO FITNESS. , please describe for me this method you're convinced is so dangerous. I'm not convinced you really know what it is. Thanks, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > SO, FOR THE LAST TIME... STOP POSTING ABOUT NHE. IT IS AN UNSAFE METHOD > *ESPECIALLY* FOR THOSE NEW TO FITNESS. , please describe for me this method you're convinced is so dangerous. I'm not convinced you really know what it is. Thanks, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > These hgiher than > normal protein intake ratios have been clinically proven time and time again > to lead to liver disease due to the rise in isoenzymes (LDH, AST, and ALT). Case in point (in the argument that you really don't know NHE): Faigin nowhere mentions any " protein ratios. " Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 > These hgiher than > normal protein intake ratios have been clinically proven time and time again > to lead to liver disease due to the rise in isoenzymes (LDH, AST, and ALT). Case in point (in the argument that you really don't know NHE): Faigin nowhere mentions any " protein ratios. " Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 It is not in the book. It is one of Hussmann's tweaks. Andyman > > Tom, > > > > < Hey guys, I thought I was getting this thing down, but I opened > my > > mail this morning and read several conflicting posts concerning > carb > > consumption after a workout. I'm looking for max fat burn > > > > > Both BFL and NHE (the eating plan I go by) stipulate no carbs > > immediately following the workout, so that's a non-issue. > > > > < so I work out in the morning, shower, dress, and go to the office > > so my first meal is by necessity about an hour after my workout. > > > > > Wouldn't have to be. You could come to your workout with a protein > > shake ready to go, also including some Udo's or other such good- fat > > oil. When you're done your workout you gulp down that shake and > > there's your first meal. Because there are no carbs it won't > > interfere with fat-burning, and it will expedite the restoration of > > amino acids to your muscles. > > > > Now at first blush someone might say that conflicts with BFL > because > > every meal is supposed to have both a protein and a carb. Not so. > > We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you want to > > maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your > meals. > > The difference is that I'm suggesting it should be the first meal, > > whereas most others would likely say the last meal. > > > > Regards, > > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 It is not in the book. It is one of Hussmann's tweaks. Andyman > > Tom, > > > > < Hey guys, I thought I was getting this thing down, but I opened > my > > mail this morning and read several conflicting posts concerning > carb > > consumption after a workout. I'm looking for max fat burn > > > > > Both BFL and NHE (the eating plan I go by) stipulate no carbs > > immediately following the workout, so that's a non-issue. > > > > < so I work out in the morning, shower, dress, and go to the office > > so my first meal is by necessity about an hour after my workout. > > > > > Wouldn't have to be. You could come to your workout with a protein > > shake ready to go, also including some Udo's or other such good- fat > > oil. When you're done your workout you gulp down that shake and > > there's your first meal. Because there are no carbs it won't > > interfere with fat-burning, and it will expedite the restoration of > > amino acids to your muscles. > > > > Now at first blush someone might say that conflicts with BFL > because > > every meal is supposed to have both a protein and a carb. Not so. > > We're all agreed that in the BFL range of eating if you want to > > maximize fat-burning you skip the carb portion at one of your > meals. > > The difference is that I'm suggesting it should be the first meal, > > whereas most others would likely say the last meal. > > > > Regards, > > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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