Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I am thinking about ordering a sourdough starter but want to make sure I don't get in over my head as I don't bake bread very often. I'm hoping some of you are experienced sourdough folks who can give me some advice about whether I can keep the starter going with infrequent baking? Do I need to feed it daily? Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi Faith, You can keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week. I've had mine going for well over a year. Good luck! a > > I am thinking about ordering a sourdough starter but want to make sure I don't get in over my head as I don't bake bread very often. I'm hoping some of you are experienced sourdough folks who can give me some advice about whether I can keep the starter going with infrequent baking? Do I need to feed it daily? > Faith > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 One of my favorite sourdough starters is http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/ <http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/>And it is free. It has a long history, and some interesting recipes and support at the website. It's a fun adventure! Sharon, NH On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:01 PM, bubblingovernow <bubblingovernow@... > wrote: > > > I am thinking about ordering a sourdough starter but want to make sure I > don't get in over my head as I don't bake bread very often. I'm hoping some > of you are experienced sourdough folks who can give me some advice about > whether I can keep the starter going with infrequent baking? Do I need to > feed it daily? > Faith > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I know that some people make almost a cult thing about sourdough starters but my Mom, who made the best bread ever, used to make her starter from fresh the day before she wanted to bake bread. There is really nothing so magical about the starter, despite stories of inheriting the thing from a pioneer aunt or some ancient relative. I think my Mom used to put a cup or two of flour in a jar, added yeast and warm water and let it sit out on the kitchen table until the next day. Maybe she fed it a bit of sugar too. I'm not sure about the science of it but I think that the yeast ends up dying and thats what gives the bread its tang. The more starter you add, the tangier the bread. So experiment and have fun. If it flops, its just some flour, water and yeast, no big deal, just try again. If you have a memory like mine, make notes so if you hit it right, you can repeat the recipe. Trying to find a Cubalaya rooster for my adorable little hens, :-)Pat Z. Faith keeps me farming, farming keeps me broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 My starter is: 2 c each flour and water 1 t yeast 1/4 c sugar Mix well and set for 24 hours covered with a cloth. I stir it down in the morning as I usually make mine in the evening. Use all but 1/2 c for your bread and then add to the remaining half cup, 2 c flour and water, 1/4 c sugar. Feed this once a week with at least 1/2 c water and flour as well as 1 T sugar. Keep in the fridge after it has set 24 hours. You can double the recipe if ya wish for larger number of loafs you wish to make. I use my favorite bread recipe but subtract a cup of water from it to make up for the starter water. I start my dough at night and let it raise all night, then punch down and shape into loafs in the morning. It may raise quickly and other times it will take all day. You can use whole wheat flour as well for the starter but may want to add a bit less water. Kimi ******************************* www.Jremedies.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 My starter is: 2 c each flour and water 1 t yeast 1/4 c sugar Mix well and set for 24 hours covered with a cloth. I stir it down in the morning as I usually make mine in the evening. Use all but 1/2 c for your bread and then add to the remaining half cup, 2 c flour and water, 1/4 c sugar. Feed this once a week with at least 1/2 c water and flour as well as 1 T sugar. Keep in the fridge after it has set 24 hours. You can double the recipe if ya wish for larger number of loafs you wish to make. I use my favorite bread recipe but subtract a cup of water from it to make up for the starter water. I start my dough at night and let it raise all night, then punch down and shape into loafs in the morning. It may raise quickly and other times it will take all day. You can use whole wheat flour as well for the starter but may want to add a bit less water. Kimi ******************************* www.Jremedies.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 First advice - dont buy sourdough starter. You can make it at home for free, in one day. Look it up on the web. The way I do it, is to add flour and water to a pancake batter consistency. Then you can let it sit for a few days covered with plastic wrap. Just add 1 cup flour and 1 cup water each morning and night and stir it in. Use rye flour or whole wheat to get best results. After it's started, you can use unbleached all purpose or bread flour, or keep with the rye or whole wheat. To jump start things, I add a small handfull of raisins. They are covered with wild yeast and get my culture started in 1 day. Again, it's all on the internet with pictures and everything. I use mine once a month. So I just feed it for two days on the counter, and then use most of it. Then put the rest in a glass jar and seal it up in the frige till it's time to make more bread. If you go longer, you'll want to feed it some flour and water every 2-4 weeks to keep it alive in the frige. If you buy starter, it will turn into whatever wild yeast is in your home within a few months anyway, so you might as well save the money. Thaddeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 First advice - dont buy sourdough starter. You can make it at home for free, in one day. Look it up on the web. The way I do it, is to add flour and water to a pancake batter consistency. Then you can let it sit for a few days covered with plastic wrap. Just add 1 cup flour and 1 cup water each morning and night and stir it in. Use rye flour or whole wheat to get best results. After it's started, you can use unbleached all purpose or bread flour, or keep with the rye or whole wheat. To jump start things, I add a small handfull of raisins. They are covered with wild yeast and get my culture started in 1 day. Again, it's all on the internet with pictures and everything. I use mine once a month. So I just feed it for two days on the counter, and then use most of it. Then put the rest in a glass jar and seal it up in the frige till it's time to make more bread. If you go longer, you'll want to feed it some flour and water every 2-4 weeks to keep it alive in the frige. If you buy starter, it will turn into whatever wild yeast is in your home within a few months anyway, so you might as well save the money. Thaddeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Do I need to feed it daily? Faith Faith, You can create a sourdough starter that lives in the refrigerator and is refreshed every ten days or so. Then when you are going to use it you remove it from the refrigerator and refresh it a few times over two days and it is ready to go. The yeast in sourdough is C. milleri which is a different yeast than baker's yeast which is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae. If you add yeast to a starter then you do not have sourdough. This is more than a technicality as sourdough is a much healthier overall product than those breads made with baker's yeast. If health is your concern by all means do not add yeast. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Do I need to feed it daily? Faith Faith, You can create a sourdough starter that lives in the refrigerator and is refreshed every ten days or so. Then when you are going to use it you remove it from the refrigerator and refresh it a few times over two days and it is ready to go. The yeast in sourdough is C. milleri which is a different yeast than baker's yeast which is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae. If you add yeast to a starter then you do not have sourdough. This is more than a technicality as sourdough is a much healthier overall product than those breads made with baker's yeast. If health is your concern by all means do not add yeast. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 This cannot be emphasized enough. Finally, someone who speaks with knowledge.......... Sharon, NH On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:05 AM, jshields99827 wrote: > > The yeast in sourdough is C. milleri which is a different yeast than > baker's yeast which is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae. If you add yeast to a > starter then you do not have sourdough. This is more than a technicality as > sourdough is a much healthier overall product than those breads made with > baker's yeast. If health is your concern by all means do not add yeast. > > Jeff > > _ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 This cannot be emphasized enough. Finally, someone who speaks with knowledge.......... Sharon, NH On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:05 AM, jshields99827 wrote: > > The yeast in sourdough is C. milleri which is a different yeast than > baker's yeast which is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae. If you add yeast to a > starter then you do not have sourdough. This is more than a technicality as > sourdough is a much healthier overall product than those breads made with > baker's yeast. If health is your concern by all means do not add yeast. > > Jeff > > _ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 This is patently untrue and one of those myths that needs to be put to rest. A sourdough culture that has thrived for decades has done so NOT because it becomes infested with wild yeast. It has survived because it has built a strong, proven colony of symbiotic bacteria and yeast that are healthy and quite capable of fighting off invaders. Sharon, NH > > > If you buy starter, it will turn into whatever wild yeast is in your home > within a few months anyway, so you might as well save the money. > > Thaddeus > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 This is patently untrue and one of those myths that needs to be put to rest. A sourdough culture that has thrived for decades has done so NOT because it becomes infested with wild yeast. It has survived because it has built a strong, proven colony of symbiotic bacteria and yeast that are healthy and quite capable of fighting off invaders. Sharon, NH > > > If you buy starter, it will turn into whatever wild yeast is in your home > within a few months anyway, so you might as well save the money. > > Thaddeus > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 If you don't do this already, when you take some out to use it, or want to boost your starter, add rye flour. Rye is the ONLY grain, other than teff, that has a complete range of eco-system of lactic-acid bacteria. Good for you, a......... Sharon, NH > > > Hi Faith, > > You can keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week. I've had mine going > for well over a year. > > Good luck! > > a > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 If you don't do this already, when you take some out to use it, or want to boost your starter, add rye flour. Rye is the ONLY grain, other than teff, that has a complete range of eco-system of lactic-acid bacteria. Good for you, a......... Sharon, NH > > > Hi Faith, > > You can keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week. I've had mine going > for well over a year. > > Good luck! > > a > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 > > > I know that some people make almost a cult thing about sourdough > No, actually, Pat, it is an " educated " thing. > starters but my Mom, who made the best bread ever, used to make her > starter from fresh the day before she wanted to bake bread. There is > really nothing so magical about the starter, despite stories of > inheriting the thing from a pioneer aunt or some ancient relative. > Yet again, good try, but wrong. You're not talking about a real sourdough bread. You can make your bread however you want, but honestly, the method you've described will not do what real sourdough does - break down the starches/sugars in the grains, making them more easily-digestible, as well as reducing the impact they will make on blood sugars. Also, a real sourdough process has advantages for those who suffer from Candida, while your mother's method will FEED the bad yeast in the gut, making health worse. Your mother was making a " sponge " , or a quick-fermentation which can be measured in hours, and will never, ever develop the full-range of lactic-acid bacteria that a traditional sourdough, made from a culture, will develop. A traditional sourdough bread is measured in days, NOT hours, and is a healthy food well-tolerated by some Celiacs and those suffering diabetes. Your mother was using a modern quick-bread technique that has little to do with traditional bread-baking. It should not be confused with real sourdough which has a great many health benefits, especially for those who have developed health problems like Candida, from years of eating baker's bread yeast, or quick-breads which make the problem worse. Sharon, NH I think my Mom used to put a cup or two of flour in a jar, added yeast > and warm water and let it sit out on the kitchen table until the next > day. Maybe she fed it a bit of sugar too. > I'm not sure about the science of it but I think that the yeast ends up > dying and thats what gives the bread its tang. The more starter you add, > the tangier the bread. So experiment and have fun. If it flops, its > just some flour, water and yeast, no big deal, just try again. If you > have a memory like mine, make notes so if you hit it right, you can > repeat the recipe. > > Trying to find a Cubalaya rooster for my adorable little hens, > :-)Pat Z. > Faith keeps me farming, farming keeps me broke. > > > -- I just happen to think that in life we need to be a little like the farmer, who puts back into the soil what he takes out " ~ Newman Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will have plenty to eat. Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 > > > I know that some people make almost a cult thing about sourdough > No, actually, Pat, it is an " educated " thing. > starters but my Mom, who made the best bread ever, used to make her > starter from fresh the day before she wanted to bake bread. There is > really nothing so magical about the starter, despite stories of > inheriting the thing from a pioneer aunt or some ancient relative. > Yet again, good try, but wrong. You're not talking about a real sourdough bread. You can make your bread however you want, but honestly, the method you've described will not do what real sourdough does - break down the starches/sugars in the grains, making them more easily-digestible, as well as reducing the impact they will make on blood sugars. Also, a real sourdough process has advantages for those who suffer from Candida, while your mother's method will FEED the bad yeast in the gut, making health worse. Your mother was making a " sponge " , or a quick-fermentation which can be measured in hours, and will never, ever develop the full-range of lactic-acid bacteria that a traditional sourdough, made from a culture, will develop. A traditional sourdough bread is measured in days, NOT hours, and is a healthy food well-tolerated by some Celiacs and those suffering diabetes. Your mother was using a modern quick-bread technique that has little to do with traditional bread-baking. It should not be confused with real sourdough which has a great many health benefits, especially for those who have developed health problems like Candida, from years of eating baker's bread yeast, or quick-breads which make the problem worse. Sharon, NH I think my Mom used to put a cup or two of flour in a jar, added yeast > and warm water and let it sit out on the kitchen table until the next > day. Maybe she fed it a bit of sugar too. > I'm not sure about the science of it but I think that the yeast ends up > dying and thats what gives the bread its tang. The more starter you add, > the tangier the bread. So experiment and have fun. If it flops, its > just some flour, water and yeast, no big deal, just try again. If you > have a memory like mine, make notes so if you hit it right, you can > repeat the recipe. > > Trying to find a Cubalaya rooster for my adorable little hens, > :-)Pat Z. > Faith keeps me farming, farming keeps me broke. > > > -- I just happen to think that in life we need to be a little like the farmer, who puts back into the soil what he takes out " ~ Newman Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will have plenty to eat. Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Great discussion, thanks everyone. I am interested in checking out the site Sharon suggested, I am also thinking about buying a starter from http://www.culturesforhealth.com/Sourdough-Starter-c7/ as I am ordering a water kefir starter from them anyone bc I can't seem to find anyone local who already has a water kefir starter. They seem to have an interesting variety. Sharon, good to know about rye flour, does it change taste? I notice cultures for health has several different flour mixes with a variety of sourdough cultures in each one. I've already tried to make my own and it definitely went bad although I followed instructions in Cooking for the Love of the World, which is a great book, some of you may enjoy checking it out. The author lives in Viroqua WI, when she lived in Denmark she had a sourdough starter over 100 years old. http://www.christopherushomeschool.org/bookstore-for-waldorf-homeschooling/other\ -publishers/cooking-for-the-love-of-the-world-anne-marie-fryer.html I'm not sure why it went bad, perhaps since I had it in the same closet as my kombucha? Can you mix ferments in the same small area? Or who knows. I thought about trying again with raisins or grapes but I think I'd just rather get an established starter this time. Also, I haven't heard of feeding it sugar before, does this change the yeast somehow? Everything I've seen just calls for feeding it flour and water. I don't plan on adding yeast, that's the point of getting an established starter as far as I'm concerned. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Great discussion, thanks everyone. I am interested in checking out the site Sharon suggested, I am also thinking about buying a starter from http://www.culturesforhealth.com/Sourdough-Starter-c7/ as I am ordering a water kefir starter from them anyone bc I can't seem to find anyone local who already has a water kefir starter. They seem to have an interesting variety. Sharon, good to know about rye flour, does it change taste? I notice cultures for health has several different flour mixes with a variety of sourdough cultures in each one. I've already tried to make my own and it definitely went bad although I followed instructions in Cooking for the Love of the World, which is a great book, some of you may enjoy checking it out. The author lives in Viroqua WI, when she lived in Denmark she had a sourdough starter over 100 years old. http://www.christopherushomeschool.org/bookstore-for-waldorf-homeschooling/other\ -publishers/cooking-for-the-love-of-the-world-anne-marie-fryer.html I'm not sure why it went bad, perhaps since I had it in the same closet as my kombucha? Can you mix ferments in the same small area? Or who knows. I thought about trying again with raisins or grapes but I think I'd just rather get an established starter this time. Also, I haven't heard of feeding it sugar before, does this change the yeast somehow? Everything I've seen just calls for feeding it flour and water. I don't plan on adding yeast, that's the point of getting an established starter as far as I'm concerned. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Faith, Sharon " unsubbed " herself from this list. Wanted you to know so you won't wonder about why you've not heard from her in case you had other comments/questions directed her way. Sugar is not generally used in sourdough starter, though it might be part of a recipe. Feeding starter is only done with water and flour. You may take an established starter, divide it, and feed one a white flour and the other a wheat flour, so you'll have white and wheat starter. Really, an established starter can take any type of flour you feed it ... but some become more or less fragile depending on the flour you use. I keep my kombucha and sourdough starters on my counter within close proximity of each other, though both jars are covered around tightly so light doesn't ruin the fermentation process. My kombucha is not tightly sealed on TOP, but has a cloth over the top secured with a rubber band. ~Laur ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Great discussion, thanks everyone. I am interested in checking out the site Sharon suggested, I am also thinking about buying a starter from http://www.culturesforhealth.com/Sourdough-Starter-c7/ as I am ordering a water kefir starter from them anyone bc I can't seem to find anyone local who already has a water kefir starter. Sharon, good to know about rye flour, does it change taste? I notice cultures for health has several different flour mixes with a variety of sourdough cultures in each one. ---------------snip---------> perhaps since I had it in the same closet as my kombucha? Can you mix ferments in the same small area? Or who knows. I thought about trying again with raisins or grapes but I think I'd just rather get an established starter this time. Also, I haven't heard of feeding it sugar before, does this change the yeast somehow? Everything I've seen just calls for feeding it flour and water. I don't plan on adding yeast, that's the point of getting an established starter as far as I'm concerned. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Faith, Sharon " unsubbed " herself from this list. Wanted you to know so you won't wonder about why you've not heard from her in case you had other comments/questions directed her way. Sugar is not generally used in sourdough starter, though it might be part of a recipe. Feeding starter is only done with water and flour. You may take an established starter, divide it, and feed one a white flour and the other a wheat flour, so you'll have white and wheat starter. Really, an established starter can take any type of flour you feed it ... but some become more or less fragile depending on the flour you use. I keep my kombucha and sourdough starters on my counter within close proximity of each other, though both jars are covered around tightly so light doesn't ruin the fermentation process. My kombucha is not tightly sealed on TOP, but has a cloth over the top secured with a rubber band. ~Laur ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Great discussion, thanks everyone. I am interested in checking out the site Sharon suggested, I am also thinking about buying a starter from http://www.culturesforhealth.com/Sourdough-Starter-c7/ as I am ordering a water kefir starter from them anyone bc I can't seem to find anyone local who already has a water kefir starter. Sharon, good to know about rye flour, does it change taste? I notice cultures for health has several different flour mixes with a variety of sourdough cultures in each one. ---------------snip---------> perhaps since I had it in the same closet as my kombucha? Can you mix ferments in the same small area? Or who knows. I thought about trying again with raisins or grapes but I think I'd just rather get an established starter this time. Also, I haven't heard of feeding it sugar before, does this change the yeast somehow? Everything I've seen just calls for feeding it flour and water. I don't plan on adding yeast, that's the point of getting an established starter as far as I'm concerned. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 > I'm not sure why it went bad, Faith Faith, How old was the sourdough when it " went bad " ? There is a period in the early stages of creating a sourdough starter when a bacterial action that is stinky can take place. This smell is the result of various bacteria eating their way through the flour in an unbalanced environment and often occurs in the first few days of a new starter. Once the desirable lactic and acetic bacteria take over and begin a harmonious existence with the yeasts that are present the smell goes away. In other words a new starter can stink for a couple of days but it is not necessarily a sign that it has gone bad. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 > I'm not sure why it went bad, Faith Faith, How old was the sourdough when it " went bad " ? There is a period in the early stages of creating a sourdough starter when a bacterial action that is stinky can take place. This smell is the result of various bacteria eating their way through the flour in an unbalanced environment and often occurs in the first few days of a new starter. Once the desirable lactic and acetic bacteria take over and begin a harmonious existence with the yeasts that are present the smell goes away. In other words a new starter can stink for a couple of days but it is not necessarily a sign that it has gone bad. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 It was on Day 3 or 4. Faith > > > I'm not sure why it went bad, Faith > > Faith, > > How old was the sourdough when it " went bad " ? There is a period in the early stages of creating a sourdough starter when a bacterial action that is stinky can take place. This smell is the result of various bacteria eating their way through the flour in an unbalanced environment and often occurs in the first few days of a new starter. Once the desirable lactic and acetic bacteria take over and begin a harmonious existence with the yeasts that are present the smell goes away. In other words a new starter can stink for a couple of days but it is not necessarily a sign that it has gone bad. > > Jeff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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