Re: re: Disurbing article

February 13, 2004

In a message dated 2/13/04 12:14:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lierrekeith@... writes:

> While adult heterosexual men want your girls, openly,

> publically lusting after teen girls (Brittany Spears

> et al) and no one says a word. 90% of teen pregnancies

> are caused by adult men in their twenties--by

> definition rape.

Lierre,

How on earth could you possibly say that sex between someone in their 20s and

someone in their teens is " by definition rape " ? I find that absolutely

preposterous.

Does a teenager have no capacity for consenting to any act? Is there some

magical change in brain physiology that occurs exactly at one's 20th birthday

that causes one to go from complete incapacity to reason or consent to complete

impeccability in regard to decision-making?

Chris

February 13, 2004

In a message dated 2/13/04 2:26:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lynn@... writes:

> >But at least the men haven't formed a club like NAMBLA to encourage

> >this

> >behavior.

>

> Sure they have, it's called American Popular Culture.

Really? What's their mailing address?

Chris

February 13, 2004

In a message dated 2/13/04 3:38:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> Maybe not at the 20th birthday, but definitely between the 16th and 17th

> birthdays.

No, quite definitely not. Even if this change were punctuated rather than

gradual, it is not even possible to occur within the same year for every

individual.

>

> I work at the Job Corps Center in Grand Rapids, MI for nearly seven years.

> The youngest a teenager was allowed in was 16. It was too young. But we had

> to take them as that is the age they are allowed to drop out of school.

>

> The mental difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old is

> unbelievable! In that one year they gain a tremendous amount of maturity.

Since it is established and accepted that such a thing as an intelligence

quotient exists, it is simply impossible that every 16 year old has equivalent

mental capacity.

A 16 year old with an IQ of 150 clearly has a higher mental capacity than a

17 year old with an IQ of 100, or a 20 year old with an IQ of 100, for that

matter.

Chris

February 13, 2004

In a message dated 2/13/04 3:39:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayte@...

writes:

> I thought it was legally statutory rape...maybe it depends on the state.

The simple fact that you qualify it with the word " statutory " indicate it

isn't rape. If it were, it would be called " rape. " It's just a legal

construction that has nothing to do with reality, and it varies from state to

state, and

country to country.

If you don't like the laws of reality, just legislate...

Chris

February 13, 2004

In a message dated 2/13/04 3:41:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayte@...

writes:

> The problem is heterosexuals aren't trying to make sexual acts with young

> children acceptable...NAMBLA would like to change that. The APC does not

> condone sexual abuse unless you are in the white house I suppose. NAMBLA

> says it is not sexual abuse to have a relationship with a consenting child.

> SCARRY.

So why do you equate " NAMBLA " with " homosexuals. " Is there a gene for NAMBLA

membership too?

Chris

February 13, 2004

In a message dated 2/13/04 3:57:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lynn@... writes:

> *shrug* So's PETA. I don't think NAMBLA's made much headway nor do I

> think they're likely to. I'm hardly a supporter of the group. My only

> beef with some of its detractors is that at the first mention of

> homosexuals they drag in NAMBLA, which is ridiculous.

It would be like associating vegetarians with the Animal Liberation Front.

Not every vegetarian condones the bombing of meat-packing plants, and surely

most don't.

Chris

February 13, 2004

L wrote:

> While adult heterosexual men want your girls, openly,

> publically lusting after teen girls (Brittany Spears

> et al) and no one says a word. 90% of teen pregnancies

> are caused by adult men in their twenties--by

> definition rape. By the age of 12, 92% of all girls

> have received unwanted sexual attention from adult

> men, and by the age of 14, 34% have been sexually

> abused.

You want to provide some references for those numbers? It's not that I

don't trust you, but I know for a fact that 73% of all statistics are

made up.

February 13, 2004

> But at least the men haven't formed a club like NAMBLA to encourage

> this

> behavior.

Sure they have, it's called American Popular Culture.

Lynn S.

of the cranky S's...

February 13, 2004

This is one exceptional list! There have been several threads that would

guaranteed a blow-up on almost any other list, and all were as quiet as this

one.

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Kayte Sisler [mailto:kayte@...]

[snip]

Isn't this a friendly discussion...I've never seen a discussion volatile

like this be discussed to quietly on the net.

I think we can all agree that children ought not to be used sexually whether

they consent or not.

February 13, 2004

Maybe not at the 20th birthday, but definitely between the 16th and 17th

birthdays.

I work at the Job Corps Center in Grand Rapids, MI for nearly seven years.

The youngest a teenager was allowed in was 16. It was too young. But we had

to take them as that is the age they are allowed to drop out of school.

The mental difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old is

unbelievable! In that one year they gain a tremendous amount of maturity.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

In a message dated 2/13/04 12:14:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lierrekeith@... writes:

> While adult heterosexual men want your girls, openly,

> publically lusting after teen girls (Brittany Spears

> et al) and no one says a word. 90% of teen pregnancies

> are caused by adult men in their twenties--by

> definition rape.

Lierre,

How on earth could you possibly say that sex between someone in their 20s

and

someone in their teens is " by definition rape " ? I find that absolutely

preposterous.

Does a teenager have no capacity for consenting to any act? Is there some

magical change in brain physiology that occurs exactly at one's 20th

birthday

that causes one to go from complete incapacity to reason or consent to

complete

impeccability in regard to decision-making?

Chris

February 13, 2004

Hardly a club. NAMBLA is actually quite active in pushing their agenda.

The American Popular Culture is how you live and what you give to society.

I happen to know a lot of great families that don't allow their girls to

idolize Brittany and didn't watch the half time show for the recent football

game. There is quite a conservative movement.

The problem is heterosexuals aren't trying to make sexual acts with young

children acceptable...NAMBLA would like to change that. The APC does not

condone sexual abuse unless you are in the white house I suppose. NAMBLA

says it is not sexual abuse to have a relationship with a consenting child.

SCARRY.

Re: re: Disurbing article

> But at least the men haven't formed a club like NAMBLA to encourage

> this

> behavior.

Sure they have, it's called American Popular Culture.

Lynn S.

of the cranky S's...

February 13, 2004

>> Sure they have, it's called American Popular Culture.

>

> Really? What's their mailing address?

1515 Broadway

New York, NY 10036

Lynn S.

February 13, 2004

I thought it was legally statutory rape...maybe it depends on the state.

Re: re: Disurbing article

In a message dated 2/13/04 12:14:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lierrekeith@... writes:

> While adult heterosexual men want your girls, openly,

> publically lusting after teen girls (Brittany Spears

> et al) and no one says a word. 90% of teen pregnancies

> are caused by adult men in their twenties--by

> definition rape.

Lierre,

How on earth could you possibly say that sex between someone in their 20s

and

someone in their teens is " by definition rape " ? I find that absolutely

preposterous.

Does a teenager have no capacity for consenting to any act? Is there some

magical change in brain physiology that occurs exactly at one's 20th

birthday

that causes one to go from complete incapacity to reason or consent to

complete

impeccability in regard to decision-making?

Chris

February 13, 2004

Oops - That should have been " I worked. . . "

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Judith Alta [mailto:jaltak@...]

Maybe not at the 20th birthday, but definitely between the 16th and 17th

birthdays.

I work at the Job Corps Center in Grand Rapids, MI for nearly seven years.

The youngest a teenager was allowed in was 16. It was too young. But we had

to take them as that is the age they are allowed to drop out of school.

The mental difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old is

unbelievable! In that one year they gain a tremendous amount of maturity.

Judith Alta

February 13, 2004

> Hardly a club. NAMBLA is actually quite active in pushing their

> agenda.

*shrug* So's PETA. I don't think NAMBLA's made much headway nor do I

think they're likely to. I'm hardly a supporter of the group. My only

beef with some of its detractors is that at the first mention of

homosexuals they drag in NAMBLA, which is ridiculous. Since Ted Bundy

and Ridgway don't have an official club with an official agenda,

how's this: It's like bringing up Aryan Nations or Rev Fred Phelps (the

guy who wants to put up a monument congratulating the killers of

Shepard) every time someone mentions Christianity. They

definitely have clubs and agendas, they're definitely pushing them, and

they have about as much to do with Christianity as chalk does with

cheese.

Lynn S.

February 13, 2004

Its Massachusetts law. Anyone over 21 having sex with anyone under 17 is

statutory rape. 18-21 to 17 down to 14 is considered less. Child under 14 is

child rape and will get biggest jail time if over 21, less if 14-21. Reasons

for this is it may be consenting with older children but the emotional

maturity of the different ages comes into play. The bigger the age

difference the bigger the difference between understanding any of it and the

responsibility. In other words by 21 the state expects that this should be

known and if its done anyway its taking advantage of immaturity and

naieveness.

Have seen it work both ways with males over 21 and under17 women, usually if

they become pregnant its pushed for child support with statutory rape added.

Had a neighbor who was seduced by an 18 year old girl who became pregnant

when he was 14. She ended up getting support when he was old enough to work

but she was charged with statutory rape.

> How on earth could you possibly say that sex between someone in their 20s

and

> someone in their teens is " by definition rape " ? I find that absolutely

> preposterous.

Wanita

February 13, 2004

I know a 15 year old girl that would put many adults to shame, both in

maturity and intelligence. But mental capacity does not guarantee maturity.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

In a message dated 2/13/04 3:38:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> Maybe not at the 20th birthday, but definitely between the 16th and 17th

> birthdays.

No, quite definitely not. Even if this change were punctuated rather than

gradual, it is not even possible to occur within the same year for every

individual.

>

> I work at the Job Corps Center in Grand Rapids, MI for nearly seven years.

> The youngest a teenager was allowed in was 16. It was too young. But we

had

> to take them as that is the age they are allowed to drop out of school.

>

> The mental difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old is

> unbelievable! In that one year they gain a tremendous amount of maturity.

Since it is established and accepted that such a thing as an intelligence

quotient exists, it is simply impossible that every 16 year old has

equivalent

mental capacity.

A 16 year old with an IQ of 150 clearly has a higher mental capacity than a

17 year old with an IQ of 100, or a 20 year old with an IQ of 100, for that

matter.

Chris

February 13, 2004

Children are impressionable. And a child (yes, a teenager is still a child)

is very impressionable. It is much easier to hand a child a " line " than an

adult. You can't call it consent if they were conned into it. Even if there

was no force.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

> How on earth could you possibly say that sex between someone in their 20s

and

> someone in their teens is " by definition rape " ? I find that absolutely

> preposterous.

February 13, 2004

Judith Alta wrote:

> I know a 15 year old girl that would put many adults to shame, both in

> maturity and intelligence. But mental capacity does not guarantee

> maturity.

Neither does age.

February 13, 2004

Wanita Sears wrote:

> Have seen it work both ways with males over 21 and under17 women,

> usually if they become pregnant its pushed for child support with

> statutory rape added. Had a neighbor who was seduced by an 18 year

> old girl who became pregnant when he was 14. She ended up getting

> support when he was old enough to work but she was charged with

> statutory rape.

Wow. That's just...that's outrageous. The child support racket is bad

enough as it is, but to force it on a minor seduced by a woman four

years older than him is madness. Did he appeal (to a higher

court--obviously he appealed to her)?

February 13, 2004

>> The problem is heterosexuals aren't trying to make sexual acts with young

children acceptable... <<

This is not true. There are organized pedophile organizations for men who want

to have sex with girls too. You can find some of them, as I did, by doing a

quick google search just now, listed here:

http://www.puellula.org/HFP/Links.html

There is a reason that NAMBLA gets so much attention, and that is because

anti-gay propganda keeps the spotlight on them, so it can continue to demonize

gay people. That fact is that NAMBLA is despised and outcast by virtually all

gay and lesbian people. The pathetic few sickos who comprise NAMBLA love all the

attention they get - it feeds their agenda perfectly to be used in this way.

They would have faded away long ago, otherwise.

Christie

February 13, 2004

,

Welfare brought him to court for paternity to get all or some of what they'd

paid her back, mostly in hopes of his being able to pay enough to get her

off welfare. He was able to charge her with statutory rape but that didn't

relieve him of supporting in their eyes. Probably right about now the son is

18 and he won't have to pay soon. When my husband was on Social Security

disability from getting hit by a motorcycle and we had full custody of their

daughter, his ex wife was not pursued in the same vehement manner he was

pursued for support for her. Got none, seemed effort wasn't made, they

attached his check immediately, and proving he couldn't pay after the

accident was a mess.

> Wow. That's just...that's outrageous. The child support racket is bad

> enough as it is, but to force it on a minor seduced by a woman four

> years older than him is madness. Did he appeal (to a higher

> court--obviously he appealed to her)?

Wanita

February 13, 2004

Often have I wondered what excuse the court system in this country uses as

an excuse for brains.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Wanita Sears [mailto:wanitawa@...]