Re: Bitter Milk- End of Thread!

[Guest guest]

Ok, guys, this is Sara stepping in with her moderator hat on.

I feel sorry for . Basically due to timing, she got attacked by when she mentioned bitter milk and strange eggs. SHE DID NOT say who the supplier was.

was doing what a number of people have done on-list in the past; she was soliciting information and presumably marshalling her courage to approach the supplier. No one jumped the posters who were looking for possible causes to bad milk/eggs, or got called names.

over-reacted. For which she has been put on moderated status here at RawDairy. RawDairy doesn't tolerate any name calling or character-impugning. NO flaming is allowed, no name calling is allowed, for no reason whatsoever. Not even if one feels it was provoked or deserved. Names don't have a place anywhere, most certainly NOT on this Raw Dairy list where people get addicted to just hanging out here because well darn everyone is just so friendly and helpful!

K.C., I can understand you getting pissed off too. I'd be upset too if it was my cow, and someone was impugning the quality of my dear Daisy's milk. But hey, you are way close to this situation, I can afford to be more objective. I want to remind you that did not say who the supplier was. Very likely she was also marshalling up courage to approach you to discuss the situation. Many others here have been in the same boat, they feel intimidated being a "city (or suburb?) slicker" and approaching a farmer about his/her animals. They don't know what the heck to ask about. They wouldn't know which one of these two questions are appropriate: Are the cows sleeping well at night? What do the cows eat out in the field? Any more discussion on this particular situation by anyone is ended. Take it off list if need be, it has been played out here on-list.

Moral: Everyone on this list has the right to ask questions and to elicit opinions, with NO NAMES provided. Unexpected situations do happen, mistakes do happen. Cows do get into some weeds that affect milk quality, a customer might have inadvertently supplied an unclean container and so on. That doesn't mean RawDairy'ers are hereafter banned from asking what could have happened to their milk. It does mean that people are banned from replying right away, and expected to allow 24 hours to elapse before formulating a reply. Allow time to step away from the situation and to evaluate it with more objective eyes! People don't need to get to " het up" ! Life is not worth it and hey it's Thanksgiving season! Let us all keep giving thanks for our Raw Milk!

And in the future if someone had a question on milk quality and fear getting jumped on, just email me and I will post anonymously for the person. That way no one's feelings get hurt, and everyone can help the anonymous poster get to the bottom of the matter. Input from farmers are invaluable to city/suburb slickers. And it is one reason why RawDairy is in existence.

Thank you Lord for our Raw milk, for farmers being sensible enough to keep cows on grass and chickens on bugs, and for having fellow RawDairyers - to keep me on the straight and narrow and drinkin' nummy Raw Milk!

Sara

Minnesota

"Where sales at the farm is permitted"

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Sara,

I thank you for stepping in. I am sorry that you have had too. I have

met many nice people on this list, and I will miss some of them.

Allergies and sensitivities have been proven to be geneticly passed

on. And my family has many sensitivities, which I have tracked down to

a combination of exposure to environmental exposures and declining

food quality over several generations of living in a large city area

(Chicago, IL). I have consulted numerous specialsts. They have all

given me the same advice, stay far away from chemicals, eat high

quality food, and consume full fat food (for an underweight problem).

It was our mistake to think that " the country " would be chemical free

and have high quality food.

I have decided to leave this group as I will not tolerate the

emotional abuse I and my family has suffered in the last few days. I

wish everyone the best.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:56:10 -0800 (PST), Sara Rheault

wrote:

>

> Ok, guys, this is Sara stepping in with her moderator hat on.

> I feel sorry for . Basically due to timing, she got attacked by

> when she mentioned bitter milk and strange eggs. SHE DID NOT say who

> the supplier was.

> was doing what a number of people have done on-list in the past; she

> was soliciting information and presumably marshalling her courage to

> approach the supplier. No one jumped the posters who were looking for

> possible causes to bad milk/eggs, or got called names.

> over-reacted. For which she has been put on moderated status here

> at RawDairy. RawDairy doesn't tolerate any name calling or

> character-impugning. NO flaming is allowed, no name calling is allowed, for

> no reason whatsoever. Not even if one feels it was provoked or deserved.

> Names don't have a place anywhere, most certainly NOT on this Raw Dairy list

> where people get addicted to just hanging out here because well darn

> everyone is just so friendly and helpful!

> K.C., I can understand you getting pissed off too. I'd be upset too if it

> was my cow, and someone was impugning the quality of my dear Daisy's milk.

> But hey, you are way close to this situation, I can afford to be more

> objective. I want to remind you that did not say who the supplier

> was. Very likely she was also marshalling up courage to approach you to

> discuss the situation. Many others here have been in the same boat, they

> feel intimidated being a " city (or suburb?) slicker " and approaching a

> farmer about his/her animals. They don't know what the heck to ask about.

> They wouldn't know which one of these two questions are appropriate: Are the

> cows sleeping well at night? What do the cows eat out in the field? Any

> more discussion on this particular situation by anyone is ended. Take it

> off list if need be, it has been played out here on-list.

> Moral: Everyone on this list has the right to ask questions and to elicit

> opinions, with NO NAMES provided. Unexpected situations do happen, mistakes

> do happen. Cows do get into some weeds that affect milk quality, a customer

> might have inadvertently supplied an unclean container and so on. That

> doesn't mean RawDairy'ers are hereafter banned from asking what could have

> happened to their milk. It does mean that people are banned from replying

> right away, and expected to allow 24 hours to elapse before formulating a

> reply. Allow time to step away from the situation and to evaluate it with

> more objective eyes! People don't need to get to " het up " ! Life is not

> worth it and hey it's Thanksgiving season! Let us all keep giving thanks

> for our Raw Milk!

> And in the future if someone had a question on milk quality and fear

> getting jumped on, just email me and I will post anonymously for the person.

> That way no one's feelings get hurt, and everyone can help the anonymous

> poster get to the bottom of the matter. Input from farmers are invaluable

> to city/suburb slickers. And it is one reason why RawDairy is in existence.

> Thank you Lord for our Raw milk, for farmers being sensible enough to

> keep cows on grass and chickens on bugs, and for having fellow RawDairyers -

> to keep me on the straight and narrow and drinkin' nummy Raw Milk!

> Sara

> Minnesota

> " Where sales at the farm is permitted "

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Sara,

I don't mean to disagree with the moderator, but in this case, I think it is necessary.

I would like to see a few more of the producers and consumers voice their opinions/concerns. I think this is a critical topic to the Raw Dairy movement. When I talk to farmers about selling raw milk, their concerns are 1. liability and 2. dealing with consumers. And I think the two are tied together, because it only takes one consumer to potentially ruin the business. This seems like a lot of risk to the average farmer....

I think the answer is education on the part of both parties. But, to be frank, the consumers can come off rather arrogant. While I see the producers can seem reluctant to change. I know this, on both sides there is a lot to learn......

Tony Marzolino

Berkshire, NYSara Rheault wrote:

Ok, guys, this is Sara stepping in with her moderator hat on.

I feel sorry for . Basically due to timing, she got attacked by when she mentioned bitter milk and strange eggs. SHE DID NOT say who the supplier was.

was doing what a number of people have done on-list in the past; she was soliciting information and presumably marshalling her courage to approach the supplier. No one jumped the posters who were looking for possible causes to bad milk/eggs, or got called names.

over-reacted. For which she has been put on moderated status here at RawDairy. RawDairy doesn't tolerate any name calling or character-impugning. NO flaming is allowed, no name calling is allowed, for no reason whatsoever. Not even if one feels it was provoked or deserved. Names don't have a place anywhere, most certainly NOT on this Raw Dairy list where people get addicted to just hanging out here because well darn everyone is just so friendly and helpful!

K.C., I can understand you getting pissed off too. I'd be upset too if it was my cow, and someone was impugning the quality of my dear Daisy's milk. But hey, you are way close to this situation, I can afford to be more objective. I want to remind you that did not say who the supplier was. Very likely she was also marshalling up courage to approach you to discuss the situation. Many others here have been in the same boat, they feel intimidated being a "city (or suburb?) slicker" and approaching a farmer about his/her animals. They don't know what the heck to ask about. They wouldn't know which one of these two questions are appropriate: Are the cows sleeping well at night? What do the cows eat out in the field? Any more discussion on this particular situation by anyone is ended. Take it off list if need be, it has been played out here on-list.

Moral: Everyone on this list has the right to ask questions and to elicit opinions, with NO NAMES provided. Unexpected situations do happen, mistakes do happen. Cows do get into some weeds that affect milk quality, a customer might have inadvertently supplied an unclean container and so on. That doesn't mean RawDairy'ers are hereafter banned from asking what could have happened to their milk. It does mean that people are banned from replying right away, and expected to allow 24 hours to elapse before formulating a reply. Allow time to step away from the situation and to evaluate it with more objective eyes! People don't need to get to " het up" ! Life is not worth it and hey it's Thanksgiving season! Let us all keep giving thanks for our Raw Milk!

And in the future if someone had a question on milk quality and fear getting jumped on, just email me and I will post anonymously for the person. That way no one's feelings get hurt, and everyone can help the anonymous poster get to the bottom of the matter. Input from farmers are invaluable to city/suburb slickers. And it is one reason why RawDairy is in existence.

Thank you Lord for our Raw milk, for farmers being sensible enough to keep cows on grass and chickens on bugs, and for having fellow RawDairyers - to keep me on the straight and narrow and drinkin' nummy Raw Milk!

Sara

Minnesota

"Where sales at the farm is permitted"

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Tony, I agree with you. As a producer/supplier of raw milk, I'm always

looking for ways to improve the area I milk in and the way I can best work

with the milk after I collect it. Unfortunately, it all takes money, and

I don't have a lot. I know what I would like to do, but that will all be

down the road a bit. In the mean time, I just keep everything as clean as

I can.

I've actually been very lucky as far as customers go. They all know what

they want and are pleased with the cleanliness of the milk they get from

me. I always ask how they enjoyed the milk if they don't offer up the

info to make sure they are happy with the product. So far, so good.

As a producer/supplier, I have to be sure that everything is always good

for the consumer and I know the people I deal with are appreciative of

this.

You are so right about being ruined by just one mistate or one screw up.

That's why I started the share program. Where I am, selling raw milk is

almost worse then selling drugs in the eyes of the authorities. All I

needed was one person to be a spy and they would have taken my cow and I

would have been devistated. Now, with the share program, I know that

can't happen. By keeping the milk clean in good clean bottles and

immediately refrigerated, at least I know that they are getting what they

expect.

K.C.

> Hello Sara,

> I don't mean to disagree with the moderator, but in this case, I think

> it is necessary.

>

> I would like to see a few more of the producers and consumers voice

> their opinions/concerns. I think this is a critical topic to the Raw

> Dairy movement. When I talk to farmers about selling raw milk, their

> concerns are 1. liability and 2. dealing with consumers. And I think

> the two are tied together, because it only takes one consumer to

> potentially ruin the business. This seems like a lot of risk to the

> average farmer....

>

> I think the answer is education on the part of both parties. But, to be

> frank, the consumers can come off rather arrogant. While I see the

> producers can seem reluctant to change. I know this, on both sides

> there is a lot to learn......

>

> Tony Marzolino

> Berkshire, NY

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

I have no objection at all to members here voicing opinions and concerns. What I do object to is people jumping others for their expressing said opinions and concerns. That's the big difference there! No name calling, no impugning of character, and so on down the list, is allowed here. It shouldn't be allowed anywhere, as a matter of fact, but I'm limiting myself (I only have so much weight to throw around anyhow!) to this list. I'm sure you agree with me here..it will be better to have someone anonymously post a concern compared to no posted concerns. We want to hear the bad as well as the good, we don't want to hear only good and when we do hear bad, we don't want to resort to intimidating or overbearing tactics.

Hope this helps. People can certainly post on this topic when and if "bad" milk taste comes up again, it's just this recent triangle has been ended.

Sara

Tony Marzolino wrote:

Hello Sara,

I don't mean to disagree with the moderator, but in this case, I think it is necessary.

I would like to see a few more of the producers and consumers voice their opinions/concerns. I think this is a critical topic to the Raw Dairy movement. When I talk to farmers about selling raw milk, their concerns are 1. liability and 2. dealing with consumers. And I think the two are tied together, because it only takes one consumer to potentially ruin the business. This seems like a lot of risk to the average farmer....

I think the answer is education on the part of both parties. But, to be frank, the consumers can come off rather arrogant. While I see the producers can seem reluctant to change. I know this, on both sides there is a lot to learn......

Tony Marzolino

Berkshire, NY

Sara Rheault Owner Remembering Our Angels www.rememberingourangels.com sara@...

"Come check it out!"__________________________________________________