Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Marie~ The price for the new pRoshi 2 for first time buyers is a bit more than you quoted these days, closer to $2, 000. thats what I had to pay for mine. ~ -------------- Original message ---------------------- Hi Pete, re the pRoshi2. I have used it with many clients and when they leave treatment and resume later their improvements have held. This has impressed me in terms of being able to move on in terms of different aspects of treatment. I am especially impressed with the pRoshi when Im working on people with ptsd.. It makes the trauma work a lot more effective and efficient. ....One kid with adhd loves it and his grades show it too. An autistic kid who was terribly shy and very stuck in his routine was able to dislodge from his stuckness and go to college. He has become quite social and is able now to talk to others and carry his side of the conversation as well.. Most of this work was done with pRosh and some HEG. There may be a lot more to the pRoshi than you think.. and its cost is not $2000 but less,... $1750 or $1850. Cheers, Marie The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it " loosens up " the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused, i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advice thanks again Leib Heller .. -- Van Deusen pvdtlcgmail http://www.brain-trainer.com 305/433-3160 The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusen pvdtlcgmail http://www.brain-trainer.com 305/433-3160 The Learning Curve, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 For home training some people like the simplicity of Auditory/Visual Entrainment devices such as the *DAVID PAL* www.mindalive.com <http://www.mindalive.com> It's not the same thing as neurofeedback because it doesn't use sensors to read your brainwaves and then feedback to you, instead it uses A/V stimulation to 'drive' the brain at certain frequencies (more details on it's mechanisms can be found here <http://www.mindalive.com/articleone.htm>). It is much simpler than doing real neurofeedback on yourself and comes pre-programmed for attention training or meditation training (and many others kinds)- *http://www.mindalive.com/2_0/pal36presets.htm. *Plus the investment is significantly less than a full neurofeedback setup (only $320). But if you want very simple neurofeedback setup then the new *Cygnet *software with the *Neuroamp* may be the way to go. You can get excellent support for its use from *EEGinfo.com* and it really is simple to use and the training philosophy is very straight forward. They have the most engaging games I've seen as well. Oh and Cygnet may be cross-platform as it is based on BioEra software which runs on Mac, Win & Linux. Best Regards, Jay Rabbi Heller wrote: > Hi > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a > pendant > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 > <http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> > the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also > been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide > on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press > one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with > attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through > extensive training etc. > > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out > which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the > screen as opposed to brain patterns, > > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... > > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the > right thing > thanks again, > Leib. > > > > > > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 > <http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> > > */ Van Deusen /* wrote: > > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be > able to help you with much information about this topic. I am > independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software > from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any > specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the > webiste www.brain-trainer.com <http://www.brain-trainer.com/>, if > you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. > > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously > been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. > But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I > am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain > training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For > the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in > workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained > hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 > (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became > available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and > Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. > Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a > non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and > participate in training side-by-side with professionals. > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of > that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any > source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore > it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more > than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. > > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone > number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) > and what day/time would be best for you to speak. > > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll > give you a ring. > > Pete > > > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller@... > > wrote: > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow > me to > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a > concentration problem) > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i > don't know > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more > focused, > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or > direct to > me to an independent reputable source for advice > thanks again > Leib Heller > . > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com <http://www.brain-trainer.com/> > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 For home training some people like the simplicity of Auditory/Visual Entrainment devices such as the *DAVID PAL* www.mindalive.com <http://www.mindalive.com> It's not the same thing as neurofeedback because it doesn't use sensors to read your brainwaves and then feedback to you, instead it uses A/V stimulation to 'drive' the brain at certain frequencies (more details on it's mechanisms can be found here <http://www.mindalive.com/articleone.htm>). It is much simpler than doing real neurofeedback on yourself and comes pre-programmed for attention training or meditation training (and many others kinds)- *http://www.mindalive.com/2_0/pal36presets.htm. *Plus the investment is significantly less than a full neurofeedback setup (only $320). But if you want very simple neurofeedback setup then the new *Cygnet *software with the *Neuroamp* may be the way to go. You can get excellent support for its use from *EEGinfo.com* and it really is simple to use and the training philosophy is very straight forward. They have the most engaging games I've seen as well. Oh and Cygnet may be cross-platform as it is based on BioEra software which runs on Mac, Win & Linux. Best Regards, Jay Rabbi Heller wrote: > Hi > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a > pendant > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 > <http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> > the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also > been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide > on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press > one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with > attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through > extensive training etc. > > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out > which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the > screen as opposed to brain patterns, > > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... > > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the > right thing > thanks again, > Leib. > > > > > > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 > <http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> > > */ Van Deusen /* wrote: > > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be > able to help you with much information about this topic. I am > independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software > from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any > specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the > webiste www.brain-trainer.com <http://www.brain-trainer.com/>, if > you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. > > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously > been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. > But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I > am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain > training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For > the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in > workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained > hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 > (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became > available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and > Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. > Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a > non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and > participate in training side-by-side with professionals. > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of > that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any > source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore > it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more > than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. > > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone > number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) > and what day/time would be best for you to speak. > > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll > give you a ring. > > Pete > > > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller@... > > wrote: > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow > me to > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a > concentration problem) > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i > don't know > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more > focused, > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or > direct to > me to an independent reputable source for advice > thanks again > Leib Heller > . > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com <http://www.brain-trainer.com/> > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 For home training some people like the simplicity of Auditory/Visual Entrainment devices such as the *DAVID PAL* www.mindalive.com <http://www.mindalive.com> It's not the same thing as neurofeedback because it doesn't use sensors to read your brainwaves and then feedback to you, instead it uses A/V stimulation to 'drive' the brain at certain frequencies (more details on it's mechanisms can be found here <http://www.mindalive.com/articleone.htm>). It is much simpler than doing real neurofeedback on yourself and comes pre-programmed for attention training or meditation training (and many others kinds)- *http://www.mindalive.com/2_0/pal36presets.htm. *Plus the investment is significantly less than a full neurofeedback setup (only $320). But if you want very simple neurofeedback setup then the new *Cygnet *software with the *Neuroamp* may be the way to go. You can get excellent support for its use from *EEGinfo.com* and it really is simple to use and the training philosophy is very straight forward. They have the most engaging games I've seen as well. Oh and Cygnet may be cross-platform as it is based on BioEra software which runs on Mac, Win & Linux. Best Regards, Jay Rabbi Heller wrote: > Hi > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a > pendant > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 > <http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> > the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also > been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide > on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press > one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with > attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through > extensive training etc. > > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out > which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the > screen as opposed to brain patterns, > > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... > > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the > right thing > thanks again, > Leib. > > > > > > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 > <http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> > > */ Van Deusen /* wrote: > > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be > able to help you with much information about this topic. I am > independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software > from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any > specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the > webiste www.brain-trainer.com <http://www.brain-trainer.com/>, if > you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. > > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously > been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. > But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I > am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain > training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For > the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in > workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained > hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 > (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became > available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and > Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. > Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a > non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and > participate in training side-by-side with professionals. > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of > that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any > source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore > it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more > than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. > > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone > number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) > and what day/time would be best for you to speak. > > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll > give you a ring. > > Pete > > > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller@... > > wrote: > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow > me to > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a > concentration problem) > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i > don't know > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more > focused, > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or > direct to > me to an independent reputable source for advice > thanks again > Leib Heller > . > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com <http://www.brain-trainer.com/> > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi ,Thank you your summary does bring some clarity, 2 questions: if i wanted to use the pendant for simple focus (lets say the same type of protocol that the playatention uses) how difficult would that be IE would i get the hang of it easily 2- how do the electrodes of the pendant connect to the brain? (how much more difficult is it than the helmet) thanks so much Leib Van Deusen wrote: Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent bodybasically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advicethanks againLeib Heller . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi ,Thank you your summary does bring some clarity, 2 questions: if i wanted to use the pendant for simple focus (lets say the same type of protocol that the playatention uses) how difficult would that be IE would i get the hang of it easily 2- how do the electrodes of the pendant connect to the brain? (how much more difficult is it than the helmet) thanks so much Leib Van Deusen wrote: Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent bodybasically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advicethanks againLeib Heller . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 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Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi thanks for responding,! I'm in London nw11 Leibkarenduncan@... wrote: Hi Leib~I am a home trainer and I agree with everything Pete said about the different peices of equipment. I have a pendant and a pRoshi and both are great devices and very different from each other and often compliment each other. I dont know a lot about PlayAttention but I have heard it referred to it as a toy and from the little I have learned about the brain the one size fits all is very limiting. Brains are complicated.A thought that comes to mind is you are hoping for a lot without much effort and usually if something great comes very easily without much work it is suspect. My main concern is you don't really know what your brain is doing and what it needs to train for you to address the issues you would like to address. I highly recommend you at least have an assessment done of your brain and it may make the decision about what equipment to go with a little easier. What you need and what your 7 year old needs may likely be very different so the one size fits all may not be the way to go especially when you are working with an adult brain and then a young child. There can be many reasons you are having trouble with focus, too much slow wave activity, too much fast wave activity, too much alpha, reversed patterns and more. It would be good to know before you start a training plan.If you could let us know where you are located we may be able to find you a home trainer or clinician in your area to help you with an assessment. One equipment option you did'nt mention which is more user friendly than full EEG and has great potential for helping focus is HEG. You place a headband on your head with a light meter that records either oxygen levels or temperature levels with a goal to increase from a baseline. You would have to learn to use the software but the head band itself is simple to use by placing the sensor on different locations around the forehead, no frequency decisions to make. Your child can also use the HEG with great benefit. You can see the different HEG options at the brain-trainer site. You could go with a HEG pendant, (device, headband and Bioexplorer software) or the Pocket (with bioexplorer software or stand alone) which is a bit more costly but it also trains EEG which would give you more options in the future.I also recommend you try to learn more about the brain, if you dont put much effort into doing this right, you wont have as much success, and it will be easy to drop it all and place your equipment in the closet like an old exercise bike. Support is also important for continued success. Depending on where you are we may be able to find you a group of trainers who you can be in contact with for regular help.Hope this helps and not confuses more.~-------------- Original message ----------------------From: " Van Deusen" <pvdtlcgmail>> Leib,> > You have 3 very different options there.> > The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you> about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training> for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do.> But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others')> brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is> perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?)> > The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is> exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except> it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it> works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy> to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are> reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over> a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or> impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it> may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn> anything.> > The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply> uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I> know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it> actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you> use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most> people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it> "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear> sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in> their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who> have too little--inattentive, etc.> > Good luck.> > Pete> > On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> > > Hi > > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the> > other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised> > to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of> > this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and> > immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or> > meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc.> >> > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which> > frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as> > opposed to brain patterns,> >> > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from...> >> > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right> > thing> > thanks again,> > Leib.> >> >> >> >> >> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> >> >> > * Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail>* wrote:> >> > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able> > to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the> > sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and> > don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are> > welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you> > haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about.> >> > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been> > advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me> > happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but> > I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4> > offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional> > and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US.> > I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We> > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the> > first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught> > hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you> > are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm> > aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and> > participate in training side-by-side with professionals.> > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that> > discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you> > choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a> > huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you> > get off to a solid, informed start.> >> > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number,> > but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time> > would be best for you to speak.> >> > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you> > a ring.> >> > Pete> >> >> > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> >> > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body> > > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to> > > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a> > > concentration problem)> > > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know> > > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy> > > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,> > > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to> > > me to an independent reputable source for advice> > > thanks again> > > Leib Heller> > > .> > >> > > --> > Van Deusen> > pvdtlcgmail> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See> > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/>> >> > > >> > > > -- > Van Deusen> pvdtlcgmail> http://www.brain-trainer.com> 305/433-3160> The Learning Curve, Inc.> To: braintrainer Subject: Re: confusedDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0000 Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent bodybasically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advicethanks againLeib Heller . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi thanks for responding,! I'm in London nw11 Leibkarenduncan@... wrote: Hi Leib~I am a home trainer and I agree with everything Pete said about the different peices of equipment. I have a pendant and a pRoshi and both are great devices and very different from each other and often compliment each other. I dont know a lot about PlayAttention but I have heard it referred to it as a toy and from the little I have learned about the brain the one size fits all is very limiting. Brains are complicated.A thought that comes to mind is you are hoping for a lot without much effort and usually if something great comes very easily without much work it is suspect. My main concern is you don't really know what your brain is doing and what it needs to train for you to address the issues you would like to address. I highly recommend you at least have an assessment done of your brain and it may make the decision about what equipment to go with a little easier. What you need and what your 7 year old needs may likely be very different so the one size fits all may not be the way to go especially when you are working with an adult brain and then a young child. There can be many reasons you are having trouble with focus, too much slow wave activity, too much fast wave activity, too much alpha, reversed patterns and more. It would be good to know before you start a training plan.If you could let us know where you are located we may be able to find you a home trainer or clinician in your area to help you with an assessment. One equipment option you did'nt mention which is more user friendly than full EEG and has great potential for helping focus is HEG. You place a headband on your head with a light meter that records either oxygen levels or temperature levels with a goal to increase from a baseline. You would have to learn to use the software but the head band itself is simple to use by placing the sensor on different locations around the forehead, no frequency decisions to make. Your child can also use the HEG with great benefit. You can see the different HEG options at the brain-trainer site. You could go with a HEG pendant, (device, headband and Bioexplorer software) or the Pocket (with bioexplorer software or stand alone) which is a bit more costly but it also trains EEG which would give you more options in the future.I also recommend you try to learn more about the brain, if you dont put much effort into doing this right, you wont have as much success, and it will be easy to drop it all and place your equipment in the closet like an old exercise bike. Support is also important for continued success. Depending on where you are we may be able to find you a group of trainers who you can be in contact with for regular help.Hope this helps and not confuses more.~-------------- Original message ----------------------From: " Van Deusen" <pvdtlcgmail>> Leib,> > You have 3 very different options there.> > The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you> about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training> for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do.> But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others')> brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is> perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?)> > The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is> exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except> it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it> works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy> to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are> reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over> a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or> impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it> may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn> anything.> > The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply> uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I> know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it> actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you> use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most> people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it> "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear> sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in> their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who> have too little--inattentive, etc.> > Good luck.> > Pete> > On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> > > Hi > > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the> > other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised> > to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of> > this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and> > immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or> > meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc.> >> > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which> > frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as> > opposed to brain patterns,> >> > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from...> >> > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right> > thing> > thanks again,> > Leib.> >> >> >> >> >> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> >> >> > * Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail>* wrote:> >> > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able> > to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the> > sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and> > don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are> > welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you> > haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about.> >> > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been> > advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me> > happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but> > I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4> > offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional> > and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US.> > I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We> > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the> > first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught> > hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you> > are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm> > aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and> > participate in training side-by-side with professionals.> > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that> > discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you> > choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a> > huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you> > get off to a solid, informed start.> >> > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number,> > but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time> > would be best for you to speak.> >> > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you> > a ring.> >> > Pete> >> >> > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> >> > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body> > > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to> > > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a> > > concentration problem)> > > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know> > > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy> > > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,> > > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to> > > me to an independent reputable source for advice> > > thanks again> > > Leib Heller> > > .> > >> > > --> > Van Deusen> > pvdtlcgmail> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See> > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/>> >> > > >> > > > -- > Van Deusen> pvdtlcgmail> http://www.brain-trainer.com> 305/433-3160> The Learning Curve, Inc.> To: braintrainer Subject: Re: confusedDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0000 Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent bodybasically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advicethanks againLeib Heller . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Leib I am basically a home trainer right now (I will be a counselor soon) training my son with attention issues. I would not feel comfortable just choosing a standard protocol. Here is my experience. I took a semester level class in neurofeedback and worked for a psychologist running neurofeedback for awhile.  I then bought a system to start training my son and I am training myself. Now, I do fine with just C4 SMR (this is a standard protocol). BUT, We started with one protocol with my son (C4 SMR). He was exhausted and looked like a new mom who’s baby is not sleeping. (That is the best description I can give) We then changed to C3 Beta training (another standard protocol). He had great results but he did not sleep! So now we are tweaking the protocols. I am confident after the good results with the last protocol that we will find something but the standards did not work. It was key for me to be working with an experienced person. I am paying for supervision. I would have been frightened after we started having issues. I most likely would have thrown in the towel. So, my recommendation is to find someone in London who can do a TLC assessment. Then they can instruct you on how to hook up your son and yourself. Then, if they use the same software, you can send files to them and they can look at the sessions if needed. They can also help you tweak the standard protocols or direct you with completely different protocols if necessary. I know Pete does supervision also!   This is more money but, if you are going to buy the equipment you might as well go for it. This is not an easy area to understand.   You may luck out with a standard protocol but I would not risk it.   When we ran the C3 beta it was unbelievable. My son’s teachers, both of them, came to me asking what got into him. They said that they had never seen him so engaged in the classroom or so organized.   Unfortunately, sleep is important J so we have to find something with a bit less activation, but this showed me how powerful this can be in helping kids with attention issues. I would stay here with Pete when it comes to equipment. I had some real issues getting equipment because I do not have a license yet (and I am almost done with my degree). The only way they sold it to me was because I had taken a course, was a counseling student and had a supervisor. All the best, Connie. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Rabbi Heller Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:44 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re: confused Hi thanks for responding,! I'm in London nw11 Leib karenduncan@... wrote: Hi Leib~ I am a home trainer and I agree with everything Pete said about the different peices of equipment. I have a pendant and a pRoshi and both are great devices and very different from each other and often compliment each other. I dont know a lot about PlayAttention but I have heard it referred to it as a toy and from the little I have learned about the brain the one size fits all is very limiting. Brains are complicated. A thought that comes to mind is you are hoping for a lot without much effort and usually if something great comes very easily without much work it is suspect. My main concern is you don't really know what your brain is doing and what it needs to train for you to address the issues you would like to address. I highly recommend you at least have an assessment done of your brain and it may make the decision about what equipment to go with a little easier. What you need and what your 7 year old needs may likely be very different so the one size fits all may not be the way to go especially when you are working with an adult brain and then a young child. There can be many reasons you are having trouble with focus, too much slow wave activity, too much fast wave activity, too much alpha, reversed patterns and more. It would be good to know before you start a training plan. If you could let us know where you are located we may be able to find you a home trainer or clinician in your area to help you with an assessment. One equipment option you did'nt mention which is more user friendly than full EEG and has great potential for helping focus is HEG. You place a headband on your head with a light meter that records either oxygen levels or temperature levels with a goal to increase from a baseline. You would have to learn to use the software but the head band itself is simple to use by placing the sensor on different locations around the forehead, no frequency decisions to make. Your child can also use the HEG with great benefit. You can see the different HEG options at the brain-trainer site. You could go with a HEG pendant, (device, headband and Bioexplorer software) or the Pocket (with bioexplorer software or stand alone) which is a bit more costly but it also trains EEG which would give you more options in the future. I also recommend you try to learn more about the brain, if you dont put much effort into doing this right, you wont have as much success, and it will be easy to drop it all and place your equipment in the closet like an old exercise bike. Support is also important for continued success. Depending on where you are we may be able to find you a group of trainers who you can be in contact with for regular help. Hope this helps and not confuses more. ~ --------- Re: confused Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0000 Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it " loosens up " the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused, i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advice thanks again Leib Heller .. Error! Filename not specified. -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@... http://www.brain-trainer.com 305/433-3160 The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@... http://www.brain-trainer.com 305/433-3160 The Learning Curve, Inc.  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Leib I am basically a home trainer right now (I will be a counselor soon) training my son with attention issues. I would not feel comfortable just choosing a standard protocol. Here is my experience. I took a semester level class in neurofeedback and worked for a psychologist running neurofeedback for awhile.  I then bought a system to start training my son and I am training myself. Now, I do fine with just C4 SMR (this is a standard protocol). BUT, We started with one protocol with my son (C4 SMR). He was exhausted and looked like a new mom who’s baby is not sleeping. (That is the best description I can give) We then changed to C3 Beta training (another standard protocol). He had great results but he did not sleep! So now we are tweaking the protocols. I am confident after the good results with the last protocol that we will find something but the standards did not work. It was key for me to be working with an experienced person. I am paying for supervision. I would have been frightened after we started having issues. I most likely would have thrown in the towel. So, my recommendation is to find someone in London who can do a TLC assessment. Then they can instruct you on how to hook up your son and yourself. Then, if they use the same software, you can send files to them and they can look at the sessions if needed. They can also help you tweak the standard protocols or direct you with completely different protocols if necessary. I know Pete does supervision also!   This is more money but, if you are going to buy the equipment you might as well go for it. This is not an easy area to understand.   You may luck out with a standard protocol but I would not risk it.   When we ran the C3 beta it was unbelievable. My son’s teachers, both of them, came to me asking what got into him. They said that they had never seen him so engaged in the classroom or so organized.   Unfortunately, sleep is important J so we have to find something with a bit less activation, but this showed me how powerful this can be in helping kids with attention issues. I would stay here with Pete when it comes to equipment. I had some real issues getting equipment because I do not have a license yet (and I am almost done with my degree). The only way they sold it to me was because I had taken a course, was a counseling student and had a supervisor. All the best, Connie. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Rabbi Heller Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:44 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re: confused Hi thanks for responding,! I'm in London nw11 Leib karenduncan@... wrote: Hi Leib~ I am a home trainer and I agree with everything Pete said about the different peices of equipment. I have a pendant and a pRoshi and both are great devices and very different from each other and often compliment each other. I dont know a lot about PlayAttention but I have heard it referred to it as a toy and from the little I have learned about the brain the one size fits all is very limiting. Brains are complicated. A thought that comes to mind is you are hoping for a lot without much effort and usually if something great comes very easily without much work it is suspect. My main concern is you don't really know what your brain is doing and what it needs to train for you to address the issues you would like to address. I highly recommend you at least have an assessment done of your brain and it may make the decision about what equipment to go with a little easier. What you need and what your 7 year old needs may likely be very different so the one size fits all may not be the way to go especially when you are working with an adult brain and then a young child. There can be many reasons you are having trouble with focus, too much slow wave activity, too much fast wave activity, too much alpha, reversed patterns and more. It would be good to know before you start a training plan. If you could let us know where you are located we may be able to find you a home trainer or clinician in your area to help you with an assessment. One equipment option you did'nt mention which is more user friendly than full EEG and has great potential for helping focus is HEG. You place a headband on your head with a light meter that records either oxygen levels or temperature levels with a goal to increase from a baseline. You would have to learn to use the software but the head band itself is simple to use by placing the sensor on different locations around the forehead, no frequency decisions to make. Your child can also use the HEG with great benefit. You can see the different HEG options at the brain-trainer site. You could go with a HEG pendant, (device, headband and Bioexplorer software) or the Pocket (with bioexplorer software or stand alone) which is a bit more costly but it also trains EEG which would give you more options in the future. I also recommend you try to learn more about the brain, if you dont put much effort into doing this right, you wont have as much success, and it will be easy to drop it all and place your equipment in the closet like an old exercise bike. Support is also important for continued success. Depending on where you are we may be able to find you a group of trainers who you can be in contact with for regular help. Hope this helps and not confuses more. ~ --------- Re: confused Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0000 Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it " loosens up " the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused, i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advice thanks again Leib Heller .. Error! Filename not specified. -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@... http://www.brain-trainer.com 305/433-3160 The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@... http://www.brain-trainer.com 305/433-3160 The Learning Curve, Inc.  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 I haven't read all the replies. Maybe others can comment. I beleive there is another system similar to Play Attention ie Smart Brain. Mark Re: confused Hi thanks for responding,! I'm in London nw11 Leibkarenduncancomcast (DOT) net wrote: Hi Leib~I am a home trainer and I agree with everything Pete said about the different peices of equipment. I have a pendant and a pRoshi and both are great devices and very different from each other and often compliment each other. I dont know a lot about PlayAttention but I have heard it referred to it as a toy and from the little I have learned about the brain the one size fits all is very limiting. Brains are complicated.A thought that comes to mind is you are hoping for a lot without much effort and usually if something great comes very easily without much work it is suspect. My main concern is you don't really know what your brain is doing and what it needs to train for you to address the issues you would like to address. I highly recommend you at least have an assessment done of your brain and it may make the decision about what equipment to go with a little easier. What you need and what your 7 year old needs may likely be very different so the one size fits all may not be the way to go especially when you are working with an adult brain and then a young child. There can be many reasons you are having trouble with focus, too much slow wave activity, too much fast wave activity, too much alpha, reversed patterns and more. It would be good to know before you start a training plan.If you could let us know where you are located we may be able to find you a home trainer or clinician in your area to help you with an assessment. One equipment option you did'nt mention which is more user friendly than full EEG and has great potential for helping focus is HEG. You place a headband on your head with a light meter that records either oxygen levels or temperature levels with a goal to increase from a baseline. You would have to learn to use the software but the head band itself is simple to use by placing the sensor on different locations around the forehead, no frequency decisions to make. Your child can also use the HEG with great benefit. You can see the different HEG options at the brain-trainer site. You could go with a HEG pendant, (device, headband and Bioexplorer software) or the Pocket (with bioexplorer software or stand alone) which is a bit more costly but it also trains EEG which would give you more options in the future.I also recommend you try to learn more about the brain, if you dont put much effort into doing this right, you wont have as much success, and it will be easy to drop it all and place your equipment in the closet like an old exercise bike. Support is also important for continued success. Depending on where you are we may be able to find you a group of trainers who you can be in contact with for regular help.Hope this helps and not confuses more.~-------------- Original message ----------------------From: " Van Deusen" <pvdtlcgmail>> Leib,> > You have 3 very different options there.> > The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you> about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training> for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do.> But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others')> brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is> perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?)> > The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is> exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except> it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it> works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy> to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are> reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over> a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or> impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it> may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn> anything.> > The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply> uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I> know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it> actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you> use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most> people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it> "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear> sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in> their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who> have too little--inattentive, etc.> > Good luck.> > Pete> > On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> > > Hi > > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the> > other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised> > to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of> > this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and> > immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or> > meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc.> >> > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which> > frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as> > opposed to brain patterns,> >> > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from...> >> > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right> > thing> > thanks again,> > Leib.> >> >> >> >> >> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> >> >> > * Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail>* wrote:> >> > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able> > to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the> > sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and> > don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are> > welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you> > haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about.> >> > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been> > advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me> > happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but> > I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4> > offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional> > and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US.> > I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We> > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the> > first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught> > hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you> > are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm> > aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and> > participate in training side-by-side with professionals.> > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that> > discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you> > choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a> > huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you> > get off to a solid, informed start.> >> > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number,> > but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time> > would be best for you to speak.> >> > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you> > a ring.> >> > Pete> >> >> > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> >> > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body> > > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to> > > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a> > > concentration problem)> > > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know> > > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy> > > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,> > > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to> > > me to an independent reputable source for advice> > > thanks again> > > Leib Heller> > > .> > >> > > --> > Van Deusen> > pvdtlcgmail> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See> > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/>> >> > > >> > > > -- > Van Deusen> pvdtlcgmail> http://www.brain-trainer.com> 305/433-3160> The Learning Curve, Inc.> From: " Van Deusen" <pvdtlcgmail>To: braintrainer Subject: Re: confusedDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0000 Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent bodybasically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advicethanks againLeib Heller .. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 I haven't read all the replies. Maybe others can comment. I beleive there is another system similar to Play Attention ie Smart Brain. Mark Re: confused Hi thanks for responding,! I'm in London nw11 Leibkarenduncancomcast (DOT) net wrote: Hi Leib~I am a home trainer and I agree with everything Pete said about the different peices of equipment. I have a pendant and a pRoshi and both are great devices and very different from each other and often compliment each other. I dont know a lot about PlayAttention but I have heard it referred to it as a toy and from the little I have learned about the brain the one size fits all is very limiting. Brains are complicated.A thought that comes to mind is you are hoping for a lot without much effort and usually if something great comes very easily without much work it is suspect. My main concern is you don't really know what your brain is doing and what it needs to train for you to address the issues you would like to address. I highly recommend you at least have an assessment done of your brain and it may make the decision about what equipment to go with a little easier. What you need and what your 7 year old needs may likely be very different so the one size fits all may not be the way to go especially when you are working with an adult brain and then a young child. There can be many reasons you are having trouble with focus, too much slow wave activity, too much fast wave activity, too much alpha, reversed patterns and more. It would be good to know before you start a training plan.If you could let us know where you are located we may be able to find you a home trainer or clinician in your area to help you with an assessment. One equipment option you did'nt mention which is more user friendly than full EEG and has great potential for helping focus is HEG. You place a headband on your head with a light meter that records either oxygen levels or temperature levels with a goal to increase from a baseline. You would have to learn to use the software but the head band itself is simple to use by placing the sensor on different locations around the forehead, no frequency decisions to make. Your child can also use the HEG with great benefit. You can see the different HEG options at the brain-trainer site. You could go with a HEG pendant, (device, headband and Bioexplorer software) or the Pocket (with bioexplorer software or stand alone) which is a bit more costly but it also trains EEG which would give you more options in the future.I also recommend you try to learn more about the brain, if you dont put much effort into doing this right, you wont have as much success, and it will be easy to drop it all and place your equipment in the closet like an old exercise bike. Support is also important for continued success. Depending on where you are we may be able to find you a group of trainers who you can be in contact with for regular help.Hope this helps and not confuses more.~-------------- Original message ----------------------From: " Van Deusen" <pvdtlcgmail>> Leib,> > You have 3 very different options there.> > The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you> about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training> for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do.> But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others')> brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is> perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?)> > The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is> exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except> it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it> works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy> to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are> reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over> a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or> impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it> may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn> anything.> > The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply> uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I> know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it> actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you> use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most> people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it> "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear> sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in> their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who> have too little--inattentive, etc.> > Good luck.> > Pete> > On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> > > Hi > > its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the> > other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised> > to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of> > this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and> > immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or> > meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc.> >> > with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which> > frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as> > opposed to brain patterns,> >> > i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from...> >> > sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right> > thing> > thanks again,> > Leib.> >> >> >> >> >> > http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11> >> >> > * Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail>* wrote:> >> > I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able> > to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the> > sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and> > don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are> > welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you> > haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about.> >> > I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been> > advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me> > happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but> > I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4> > offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional> > and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US.> > I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We> > developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the> > first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught> > hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you> > are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm> > aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and> > participate in training side-by-side with professionals.> > You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that> > discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you> > choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a> > huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you> > get off to a solid, informed start.> >> > The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number,> > but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time> > would be best for you to speak.> >> > If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you> > a ring.> >> > Pete> >> >> > On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote:> >> > > Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent body> > > basically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to> > > administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a> > > concentration problem)> > > there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know> > > which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy> > > (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,> > > i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to> > > me to an independent reputable source for advice> > > thanks again> > > Leib Heller> > > .> > >> > > --> > Van Deusen> > pvdtlcgmail> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See> > how. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51732/*http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/>> >> > > >> > > > -- > Van Deusen> pvdtlcgmail> http://www.brain-trainer.com> 305/433-3160> The Learning Curve, Inc.> From: " Van Deusen" <pvdtlcgmail>To: braintrainer Subject: Re: confusedDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0000 Leib, You have 3 very different options there. The Pendant (with BioExplorer software and some electrodes) will cost you about $1,050 with shipping, and it will be able to do any kind of training for any kind of brain activation targets you are ever likely to want to do. But the hope that you can start messing around with your (and others') brains without having to know anything about the brain or the technology is perhaps a bit naive (we can all HOPE, can't we?) The other two options are, indeed, one-size-fits-all options, and that is exactly their attraction. PlayAttention has a very slick website (except it's almost impossible to find out how much it costs or how exactly it works.) It is a helmet with saline electrodes, so it should be quite easy to use. It uses some classic training protocols (where the electrodes are reading and what frequencies they are training), which have been proven over a number of years to work with 60-70% of people who have attention or impulse control problems. If it works, it will be a great solution, so it may well be worth taking a flier on it, since you won't really have to learn anything. The pROSHI is a $2000 item that doesn't even look at the EEG. It simply uses flashing light patterns to entrain the brain and try to move it. I know many people who love it, but I don't know of anyone who says that it actually resulted in any kind of lasting change in brain funtion. If you use it daily, you'll have results--as long as you keep using it. Most people I know are using it prior to a neurofeedback session, because it "loosens up" the brain and makes it easier to train. I also have the clear sense that it is much more useful with people who have excessive activity in their brains--too fast, anxious, compulsive, etc.--rather than those who have too little--inattentive, etc. Good luck. Pete On Dec 3, 2007 8:00 AM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi its all too confusing for me, so far I've seen 3 thins one is a pendant http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 the other is 'playattention' which looks very impresive i've also been advised to look into pRoshi, but i think im not equiped to decide on any of this, basically, i want something which allows me to press one button and immediately enter a session that will help me with attention and /or meditative states, i'd rather not have to go through extensive training etc. with the pendant I'm afraid that it will take me ages to figure out which frequency is best for me etc. also i would prefer games on the screen as opposed to brain patterns, i also want something that my 7 year old son can benefit from... sorry for being difficult but i do want to make sure that i get the right thing thanks again, Leib. http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=11 Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: I'm not sure what independent body would have much knowledge to be able to help you with much information about this topic. I am independent in the sense that I distribute equipment and software from various sources and don't work for--am not a part of--any specific organization. You are welcome to take a look at the webiste www.brain-trainer.com, if you haven't already seen it, to get a sense off what we are about. I'm not sure that I'll suggest the same 2 things you've previously been advised to look into--or perhaps offer another alternative. But I'll me happy to speak with you and give you my thoughts. I am not a clinician, but I set up and ran a very successful brain training program in Atlanta (4 offices) from 1992 to 2001. For the past 5 years I've taught professional and lay trainers in workshops all over the world and throughout the US. I've trained hundreds of clients and assessed well over a thousand. We developed and operated a successful home training program in 1998 (when the first inexpensive 2-channel amplifiers became available). I've taught hundreds of people ranging from MD's and Ph.D.'s to home trainers like you are seeking to become. Brain-trainer is one of the few places of which I'm aware where a non-clinician can actually purchase equipment and software and participate in training side-by-side with professionals. You can buy from brain-trainer (we are the only site I know of that discounts prices of this equipment and software) or from any source you choose. You can take my advice or completely ignore it. It won't make a huge difference to me either way. I am more than happy though to help you get off to a solid, informed start. The number you sent in your other e-mail was, I assume, a phone number, but I'm not sure where it is (what time zone you are in) and what day/time would be best for you to speak. If you are interested, please let me know some options, and I'll give you a ring. Pete On Dec 2, 2007 7:41 PM, Rabbi Heller <rabbiheller> wrote: Hi I'm looking for advice from an independent bodybasically I'm interested in buying equipment that would allow me to administer biofeedback sessions from home on my own (i have a concentration problem) there are 2 things that Ive been advised to look into and i don't know which one would better suit my needs, i want something easy (uncomplicated) that will allow me to train to become more focused,i would greatly appreciate it if you can either advise me or direct to me to an independent reputable source for advicethanks againLeib Heller .. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 sondra please dont leave i do enjoy your post and i am by no means a professional just a mom of a six yr old with autism trying to find our way lesley confused I to not be of to know if had offended of people here or why my words just come and no one ever to does back and forth with me. I ot have maked several attempts to post and it is of not to come to back so not sure if doing them wrong I to know have issues to syntax and grammar but I to do my best. not sure if my words are of just too hard to understand or not. I to feel as if my words go out and hit a wall and just drop off there. I to been of to read and observe of the word patterns and tried of hard to figure out how to connect here and still not understand of how. maybe because the list is of more for professionals who work behaviors instead. I to not be of a professional but have of lived of autism all of the life of me. so can only offer that input. I to like to have been of included here but understand if not welcomed here too. so for me have decided to be of to leave of this group. sondra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 sondra you are welcome here, you are a bit hard to understand because of your grammar but we are just a bunch of mothers and grandmothers who have children with autism. we will try to answer the questions you have as best we can, if not we may be able to point you to a different group that may be able to help you better. Please stay and try to help us help you. Sharon Subject: confusedTo: AutismBehaviorProblems Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 7:57 AM I to not be of to know if had offended of people here or why my words just come and no one ever to does back and forth with me. I ot have maked several attempts to post and it is of not to come to back so not sure if doing them wrong I to know have issues to syntax and grammar but I to do my best. not sure if my words are of just too hard to understand or not. I to feel as if my words go out and hit a wall and just drop off there. I to been of to read and observe of the word patterns and tried of hard to figure out how to connect here and still not understand of how. maybe because the list is of more for professionals who work behaviors instead. I to not be of a professional but have of lived of autism all of the life of me. so can only offer that input. I to like to have been of included here but understand if not welcomed here too. so for me have decided to be of to leave of this group. sondra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Sondra, I have enjoyed your posts and commented in the past. I do know that if I don't have anything new or experience that fits a certain situation I tend not to respond to any ones posts. I think if you ask questions in your posts or ask for opinions then more people will respond. We are mostly parents and grandparents and I know I really value your input. Kellie To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:57:48 AMSubject: confused I to not be of to know if had offended of people here or why my words just come and no one ever to does back and forth with me. I ot have maked several attempts to post and it is of not to come to back so not sure if doing them wrong I to know have issues to syntax and grammar but I to do my best. not sure if my words are of just too hard to understand or not. I to feel as if my words go out and hit a wall and just drop off there. I to been of to read and observe of the word patterns and tried of hard to figure out how to connect here and still not understand of how. maybe because the list is of more for professionals who work behaviors instead. I to not be of a professional but have of lived of autism all of the life of me. so can only offer that input. I to like to have been of included here but understand if not welcomed here too. so for me have decided to be of to leave of this group. sondra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Sondra, please don't leave the group!! Your words and wisdom are much needed and appreciated! It helps to hear from someone living with Autism and going through what our kids go through!StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TFrom: "sondra" Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:57:48 -0000To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: confused I to not be of to know if had offended of people here or why my words just come and no one ever to does back and forth with me. I ot have maked several attempts to post and it is of not to come to back so not sure if doing them wrong I to know have issues to syntax and grammar but I to do my best. not sure if my words are of just too hard to understand or not. I to feel as if my words go out and hit a wall and just drop off there. I to been of to read and observe of the word patterns and tried of hard to figure out how to connect here and still not understand of how. maybe because the list is of more for professionals who work behaviors instead. I to not be of a professional but have of lived of autism all of the life of me. so can only offer that input. I to like to have been of included here but understand if not welcomed here too. so for me have decided to be of to leave of this group. sondra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Sondra, I'm sorry you feel that way. I always read your posts; I just don't always respond. When I read where someone has responded; then I don't respond because I don't think I have anything to add. I'm glad you let us know how you feel. love and blessings, Pat K confused I to not be of to know if had offended of people here or why my words just come and no one ever to does back and forth with me. I ot have maked several attempts to post and it is of not to come to back so not sure if doing them wrong I to know have issues to syntax and grammar but I to do my best. not sure if my words are of just too hard to understand or not. I to feel as if my words go out and hit a wall and just drop off there. I to been of to read and observe of the word patterns and tried of hard to figure out how to connect here and still not understand of how. maybe because the list is of more for professionals who work behaviors instead. I to not be of a professional but have of lived of autism all of the life of me. so can only offer that input. I to like to have been of included here but understand if not welcomed here too. so for me have decided to be of to leave of this group. sondra A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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