Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 We left at 9pm last thursday for the airport and landed in Madrid at 4am Saturday morning .I was offline traveling ....I have access to internet here in my hotel though . Thank goodness or I would be bored to tears ,rofl . I am so glad your helping them out with meds , that is so awesome . Did you hook up with Jerry's group getting stuff into the effected areas ? silvianursey wrote: Liz....where have you been? We've been making sure nobody run out of meds. Same with people who get their prescriptions from mail in pharmacies in Lousiana. The drug companies were very generous and gave us whatever we needed. Getting them there was the difficult part. Sivia > > I hadnt even thought about how Katrina was going to effect those on treatment in the effected areas . I am so glad that your insurance for now is going to not be canceled . Take care > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Silvia , there may be some info on herbal stuff at Seeker's , I know I have lots posted on the bad but there is also good stuff in there . Maybe Jackie will know silvianursey wrote: Thank you....I have copied your response and forwarded it to her. You're right....this lady is amazing. One of the lucky ones that breezed through treatment. I'm ashamed to say that I know very little about herbal products. I probably know more about the ones that can be dangerous/ I am always afraid of herbs being contaminated or having fungal growth or something like that.....or even worse, interfering with the treatment meds. One of the boys on this site....I think it's (still can't keep names straight).....who has anemia and fatigue and asked about the root. I saw another post where he asked about gingseng......so I did a little research and found that high doses can cause anxiety, insomnia, etc. and it can be contaminated with small amounts of lead or have fungal growth on the roots. That's enough for me to tell him to forget it. Plus I think it may cause people to become a little " hyper " but that is not going to improve the hemoglobin. Since I know will just look for something else, I thought I'd find him something safe that may actually raise the hemoglobin....and after careful consideration, my choice would have to be.....Juzen-Taiho-To...one of the Kampo products which contains bone marrow-stimulating compounds. What do you think? Silvia > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > >I love you too > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let > >someone > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of > >JoEllen > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you > >in error, > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > >retention,dissemination, > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Silvia , there may be some info on herbal stuff at Seeker's , I know I have lots posted on the bad but there is also good stuff in there . Maybe Jackie will know silvianursey wrote: Thank you....I have copied your response and forwarded it to her. You're right....this lady is amazing. One of the lucky ones that breezed through treatment. I'm ashamed to say that I know very little about herbal products. I probably know more about the ones that can be dangerous/ I am always afraid of herbs being contaminated or having fungal growth or something like that.....or even worse, interfering with the treatment meds. One of the boys on this site....I think it's (still can't keep names straight).....who has anemia and fatigue and asked about the root. I saw another post where he asked about gingseng......so I did a little research and found that high doses can cause anxiety, insomnia, etc. and it can be contaminated with small amounts of lead or have fungal growth on the roots. That's enough for me to tell him to forget it. Plus I think it may cause people to become a little " hyper " but that is not going to improve the hemoglobin. Since I know will just look for something else, I thought I'd find him something safe that may actually raise the hemoglobin....and after careful consideration, my choice would have to be.....Juzen-Taiho-To...one of the Kampo products which contains bone marrow-stimulating compounds. What do you think? Silvia > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > >I love you too > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let > >someone > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of > >JoEllen > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you > >in error, > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > >retention,dissemination, > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Can you please cite some references regarding the hepatotoxicity of Black Cohosh? Sally Re: Re: hey One of the natural hormone replacements is black cohosh , tell her to stay away from it . It is hepatatoxic . " JoEllen Donahue Hermes L.Ac. " wrote:At 04:58 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >JoEllen....may I ask you a question? During treatment for a Black lady >(they have a very low success rate with treatment), since we needed to >use whatever would increase her chances of success, we made the >decision to give her hormone replacement since she's post- menopausal. >She is now done with her treatment (she cleared!) and would like to >stop the Premarin....but doesn't want the hot flashes....LOL... > >I said I would look into natural hormones, risk, etc. I would >appreciate your advice. Thanks. Silvia > Hi Silvia We treat patients for menopausal sx all the time using acupuncture itself or combined with herbs. THere are some very commonly used formulas that Clear heat and nourish the Kidney.In this context, the Kidney system, not just the viscera itself as in western medicine but - In Chinese Medicine " Kidney " pertains to aging, growth, reproduction. Often someone complaining of sx like night sweats, thirst, irritability, will be given a standard formula depending on the pattern of sx they present. This can vary sa menopuase can be very involved for some patients yet others breeze through it barely noticing it. So for example someone with alot of internal heat, night sweats, etc. will be given a different rx for example Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan than someone whose symptoms are different like for example insomnia, difficulty concentrating, poor memory- might be given somethign like An Shen Bu Xin Wan which means roughly Strengthen the Heart formula. If this patient made it through the Hep tx- the rest - managing her menopausal sx should be a piece of cake! I would encourage her to see a local acupuncturist/herbalist. for a local referral www.nccaom.org The above formulas are commonly used with success but she really should get someone local to treat and prescribe specifically for her. Often patients with HepC who are taking the pharmaceutical treatment dont want to bother with herbs too. Which I can understand sometimes. These types of herbs would have to be taken consistently or its not worth taking at all. I know I am biased because I love acupuncture and do indeed think it is the coolest thing in the world - but I still strongly suggest to anyone with hep (or menopause for that matter) to consider trying acupuncture because it really can do wonders to help manage the sx. Sorry if my replies seem so general but TCM (traditional Chinese MEd) views health and illness differently. If you sent me 12 patients with HEP C, they could possibly all have a different diagnosis - with some overlap in TCM terms. So they might all be given different acupuncture points and different herbs. Hope this helps somewhat and doesnt confuse everyone Peace Josie I > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, anyway, have a > > >good time,, I love you too > > >jax > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let >someone > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > www.medicinemom.com > > ******************************************** > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of >JoEllen > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you >in error, > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, >retention,dissemination, > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 At 02:01 AM 9/26/2005, you wrote: >Thank you....I have copied your response and forwarded it to her. >You're right....this lady is amazing. One of the lucky ones that >breezed through treatment. > >I'm ashamed to say that I know very little about herbal products. I >probably know more about the ones that can be dangerous/ I am always >afraid of herbs being contaminated or having fungal growth or >something like that.....or even worse, interfering with the treatment >meds. Be sure to use herbal products from companies that have their products rated GMP ( good manufacturing process) follow more strict guidelines with regard to safety. They are carefully tested for trace elements etc >One of the boys on this site....I think it's (still can't keep >names straight).....who has anemia and fatigue and asked about the > root. I saw another post where he asked about >gingseng......so I did a little research and found that high doses >can cause anxiety, insomnia, etc. and it can be contaminated with >small amounts of lead or have fungal growth on the roots. That's >enough for me to tell him to forget it. Plus I think it may cause >people to become a little " hyper " but that is not going to improve >the hemoglobin. Since I know will just look for something >else, I thought I'd find him something safe that may actually raise >the hemoglobin....and after careful consideration, my choice would >have to be.....Juzen-Taiho-To...one of the Kampo products which >contains bone marrow-stimulating compounds. What do you think? >Silvia that is also known as Shi Chuan da Bu Yin - great yin tonic. Great formula in many cases, however it is impossible to diagnose & treat over the internet- so I would still suggest that he see a local herbalist who can determine which herbs would best help treat according to his individual pattern of disharmony. > > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER >let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property >of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to >you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 At 02:01 AM 9/26/2005, you wrote: >Thank you....I have copied your response and forwarded it to her. >You're right....this lady is amazing. One of the lucky ones that >breezed through treatment. > >I'm ashamed to say that I know very little about herbal products. I >probably know more about the ones that can be dangerous/ I am always >afraid of herbs being contaminated or having fungal growth or >something like that.....or even worse, interfering with the treatment >meds. Be sure to use herbal products from companies that have their products rated GMP ( good manufacturing process) follow more strict guidelines with regard to safety. They are carefully tested for trace elements etc >One of the boys on this site....I think it's (still can't keep >names straight).....who has anemia and fatigue and asked about the > root. I saw another post where he asked about >gingseng......so I did a little research and found that high doses >can cause anxiety, insomnia, etc. and it can be contaminated with >small amounts of lead or have fungal growth on the roots. That's >enough for me to tell him to forget it. Plus I think it may cause >people to become a little " hyper " but that is not going to improve >the hemoglobin. Since I know will just look for something >else, I thought I'd find him something safe that may actually raise >the hemoglobin....and after careful consideration, my choice would >have to be.....Juzen-Taiho-To...one of the Kampo products which >contains bone marrow-stimulating compounds. What do you think? >Silvia that is also known as Shi Chuan da Bu Yin - great yin tonic. Great formula in many cases, however it is impossible to diagnose & treat over the internet- so I would still suggest that he see a local herbalist who can determine which herbs would best help treat according to his individual pattern of disharmony. > > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER >let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property >of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to >you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 At 02:01 AM 9/26/2005, you wrote: >Thank you....I have copied your response and forwarded it to her. >You're right....this lady is amazing. One of the lucky ones that >breezed through treatment. > >I'm ashamed to say that I know very little about herbal products. I >probably know more about the ones that can be dangerous/ I am always >afraid of herbs being contaminated or having fungal growth or >something like that.....or even worse, interfering with the treatment >meds. Be sure to use herbal products from companies that have their products rated GMP ( good manufacturing process) follow more strict guidelines with regard to safety. They are carefully tested for trace elements etc >One of the boys on this site....I think it's (still can't keep >names straight).....who has anemia and fatigue and asked about the > root. I saw another post where he asked about >gingseng......so I did a little research and found that high doses >can cause anxiety, insomnia, etc. and it can be contaminated with >small amounts of lead or have fungal growth on the roots. That's >enough for me to tell him to forget it. Plus I think it may cause >people to become a little " hyper " but that is not going to improve >the hemoglobin. Since I know will just look for something >else, I thought I'd find him something safe that may actually raise >the hemoglobin....and after careful consideration, my choice would >have to be.....Juzen-Taiho-To...one of the Kampo products which >contains bone marrow-stimulating compounds. What do you think? >Silvia that is also known as Shi Chuan da Bu Yin - great yin tonic. Great formula in many cases, however it is impossible to diagnose & treat over the internet- so I would still suggest that he see a local herbalist who can determine which herbs would best help treat according to his individual pattern of disharmony. > > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER >let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property >of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to >you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Gimme a couple of hrs to go through my resources . I am in Spain right now so have a little patience . Sally Hines wrote:Can you please cite some references regarding the hepatotoxicity of Black Cohosh? Sally Re: Re: hey One of the natural hormone replacements is black cohosh , tell her to stay away from it . It is hepatatoxic . " JoEllen Donahue Hermes L.Ac. " wrote:At 04:58 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >JoEllen....may I ask you a question? During treatment for a Black lady >(they have a very low success rate with treatment), since we needed to >use whatever would increase her chances of success, we made the >decision to give her hormone replacement since she's post- menopausal. >She is now done with her treatment (she cleared!) and would like to >stop the Premarin....but doesn't want the hot flashes....LOL... > >I said I would look into natural hormones, risk, etc. I would >appreciate your advice. Thanks. Silvia > Hi Silvia We treat patients for menopausal sx all the time using acupuncture itself or combined with herbs. THere are some very commonly used formulas that Clear heat and nourish the Kidney.In this context, the Kidney system, not just the viscera itself as in western medicine but - In Chinese Medicine " Kidney " pertains to aging, growth, reproduction. Often someone complaining of sx like night sweats, thirst, irritability, will be given a standard formula depending on the pattern of sx they present. This can vary sa menopuase can be very involved for some patients yet others breeze through it barely noticing it. So for example someone with alot of internal heat, night sweats, etc. will be given a different rx for example Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan than someone whose symptoms are different like for example insomnia, difficulty concentrating, poor memory- might be given somethign like An Shen Bu Xin Wan which means roughly Strengthen the Heart formula. If this patient made it through the Hep tx- the rest - managing her menopausal sx should be a piece of cake! I would encourage her to see a local acupuncturist/herbalist. for a local referral www.nccaom.org The above formulas are commonly used with success but she really should get someone local to treat and prescribe specifically for her. Often patients with HepC who are taking the pharmaceutical treatment dont want to bother with herbs too. Which I can understand sometimes. These types of herbs would have to be taken consistently or its not worth taking at all. I know I am biased because I love acupuncture and do indeed think it is the coolest thing in the world - but I still strongly suggest to anyone with hep (or menopause for that matter) to consider trying acupuncture because it really can do wonders to help manage the sx. Sorry if my replies seem so general but TCM (traditional Chinese MEd) views health and illness differently. If you sent me 12 patients with HEP C, they could possibly all have a different diagnosis - with some overlap in TCM terms. So they might all be given different acupuncture points and different herbs. Hope this helps somewhat and doesnt confuse everyone Peace Josie I > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, anyway, have a > > >good time,, I love you too > > >jax > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let >someone > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > www.medicinemom.com > > ******************************************** > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of >JoEllen > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you >in error, > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, >retention,dissemination, > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Gimme a couple of hrs to go through my resources . I am in Spain right now so have a little patience . Sally Hines wrote:Can you please cite some references regarding the hepatotoxicity of Black Cohosh? Sally Re: Re: hey One of the natural hormone replacements is black cohosh , tell her to stay away from it . It is hepatatoxic . " JoEllen Donahue Hermes L.Ac. " wrote:At 04:58 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >JoEllen....may I ask you a question? During treatment for a Black lady >(they have a very low success rate with treatment), since we needed to >use whatever would increase her chances of success, we made the >decision to give her hormone replacement since she's post- menopausal. >She is now done with her treatment (she cleared!) and would like to >stop the Premarin....but doesn't want the hot flashes....LOL... > >I said I would look into natural hormones, risk, etc. I would >appreciate your advice. Thanks. Silvia > Hi Silvia We treat patients for menopausal sx all the time using acupuncture itself or combined with herbs. THere are some very commonly used formulas that Clear heat and nourish the Kidney.In this context, the Kidney system, not just the viscera itself as in western medicine but - In Chinese Medicine " Kidney " pertains to aging, growth, reproduction. Often someone complaining of sx like night sweats, thirst, irritability, will be given a standard formula depending on the pattern of sx they present. This can vary sa menopuase can be very involved for some patients yet others breeze through it barely noticing it. So for example someone with alot of internal heat, night sweats, etc. will be given a different rx for example Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan than someone whose symptoms are different like for example insomnia, difficulty concentrating, poor memory- might be given somethign like An Shen Bu Xin Wan which means roughly Strengthen the Heart formula. If this patient made it through the Hep tx- the rest - managing her menopausal sx should be a piece of cake! I would encourage her to see a local acupuncturist/herbalist. for a local referral www.nccaom.org The above formulas are commonly used with success but she really should get someone local to treat and prescribe specifically for her. Often patients with HepC who are taking the pharmaceutical treatment dont want to bother with herbs too. Which I can understand sometimes. These types of herbs would have to be taken consistently or its not worth taking at all. I know I am biased because I love acupuncture and do indeed think it is the coolest thing in the world - but I still strongly suggest to anyone with hep (or menopause for that matter) to consider trying acupuncture because it really can do wonders to help manage the sx. Sorry if my replies seem so general but TCM (traditional Chinese MEd) views health and illness differently. If you sent me 12 patients with HEP C, they could possibly all have a different diagnosis - with some overlap in TCM terms. So they might all be given different acupuncture points and different herbs. Hope this helps somewhat and doesnt confuse everyone Peace Josie I > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, anyway, have a > > >good time,, I love you too > > >jax > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let >someone > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > www.medicinemom.com > > ******************************************** > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of >JoEllen > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you >in error, > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, >retention,dissemination, > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Gimme a couple of hrs to go through my resources . I am in Spain right now so have a little patience . Sally Hines wrote:Can you please cite some references regarding the hepatotoxicity of Black Cohosh? Sally Re: Re: hey One of the natural hormone replacements is black cohosh , tell her to stay away from it . It is hepatatoxic . " JoEllen Donahue Hermes L.Ac. " wrote:At 04:58 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >JoEllen....may I ask you a question? During treatment for a Black lady >(they have a very low success rate with treatment), since we needed to >use whatever would increase her chances of success, we made the >decision to give her hormone replacement since she's post- menopausal. >She is now done with her treatment (she cleared!) and would like to >stop the Premarin....but doesn't want the hot flashes....LOL... > >I said I would look into natural hormones, risk, etc. I would >appreciate your advice. Thanks. Silvia > Hi Silvia We treat patients for menopausal sx all the time using acupuncture itself or combined with herbs. THere are some very commonly used formulas that Clear heat and nourish the Kidney.In this context, the Kidney system, not just the viscera itself as in western medicine but - In Chinese Medicine " Kidney " pertains to aging, growth, reproduction. Often someone complaining of sx like night sweats, thirst, irritability, will be given a standard formula depending on the pattern of sx they present. This can vary sa menopuase can be very involved for some patients yet others breeze through it barely noticing it. So for example someone with alot of internal heat, night sweats, etc. will be given a different rx for example Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan than someone whose symptoms are different like for example insomnia, difficulty concentrating, poor memory- might be given somethign like An Shen Bu Xin Wan which means roughly Strengthen the Heart formula. If this patient made it through the Hep tx- the rest - managing her menopausal sx should be a piece of cake! I would encourage her to see a local acupuncturist/herbalist. for a local referral www.nccaom.org The above formulas are commonly used with success but she really should get someone local to treat and prescribe specifically for her. Often patients with HepC who are taking the pharmaceutical treatment dont want to bother with herbs too. Which I can understand sometimes. These types of herbs would have to be taken consistently or its not worth taking at all. I know I am biased because I love acupuncture and do indeed think it is the coolest thing in the world - but I still strongly suggest to anyone with hep (or menopause for that matter) to consider trying acupuncture because it really can do wonders to help manage the sx. Sorry if my replies seem so general but TCM (traditional Chinese MEd) views health and illness differently. If you sent me 12 patients with HEP C, they could possibly all have a different diagnosis - with some overlap in TCM terms. So they might all be given different acupuncture points and different herbs. Hope this helps somewhat and doesnt confuse everyone Peace Josie I > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, anyway, have a > > >good time,, I love you too > > >jax > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let >someone > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > www.medicinemom.com > > ******************************************** > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of >JoEllen > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you >in error, > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, >retention,dissemination, > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Thanks Liz. Silvia > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > >I love you too > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let > >someone > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of > >JoEllen > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you > >in error, > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > >retention,dissemination, > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Thanks Liz. Silvia > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > >I love you too > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let > >someone > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of > >JoEllen > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you > >in error, > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > >retention,dissemination, > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Thanks Liz. Silvia > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, > > > >anyway, have a good time,, > > > >I love you too > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let > >someone > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of > >JoEllen > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you > >in error, > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > >retention,dissemination, > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Here are just a few of the sites that have information on the damage black cohosh can cuase on the liver . Just click on any and type in the search box on the site to get to the information you are looking for . Except for the last link which should take you directly there . www.webmd.com www.medscape.com http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/blackcohosh.html Sally Hines wrote: Can you please cite some references regarding the hepatotoxicity of Black Cohosh? Sally Re: Re: hey One of the natural hormone replacements is black cohosh , tell her to stay away from it . It is hepatatoxic . " JoEllen Donahue Hermes L.Ac. " wrote:At 04:58 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >JoEllen....may I ask you a question? During treatment for a Black lady >(they have a very low success rate with treatment), since we needed to >use whatever would increase her chances of success, we made the >decision to give her hormone replacement since she's post- menopausal. >She is now done with her treatment (she cleared!) and would like to >stop the Premarin....but doesn't want the hot flashes....LOL... > >I said I would look into natural hormones, risk, etc. I would >appreciate your advice. Thanks. Silvia > Hi Silvia We treat patients for menopausal sx all the time using acupuncture itself or combined with herbs. THere are some very commonly used formulas that Clear heat and nourish the Kidney.In this context, the Kidney system, not just the viscera itself as in western medicine but - In Chinese Medicine " Kidney " pertains to aging, growth, reproduction. Often someone complaining of sx like night sweats, thirst, irritability, will be given a standard formula depending on the pattern of sx they present. This can vary sa menopuase can be very involved for some patients yet others breeze through it barely noticing it. So for example someone with alot of internal heat, night sweats, etc. will be given a different rx for example Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan than someone whose symptoms are different like for example insomnia, difficulty concentrating, poor memory- might be given somethign like An Shen Bu Xin Wan which means roughly Strengthen the Heart formula. If this patient made it through the Hep tx- the rest - managing her menopausal sx should be a piece of cake! I would encourage her to see a local acupuncturist/herbalist. for a local referral www.nccaom.org The above formulas are commonly used with success but she really should get someone local to treat and prescribe specifically for her. Often patients with HepC who are taking the pharmaceutical treatment dont want to bother with herbs too. Which I can understand sometimes. These types of herbs would have to be taken consistently or its not worth taking at all. I know I am biased because I love acupuncture and do indeed think it is the coolest thing in the world - but I still strongly suggest to anyone with hep (or menopause for that matter) to consider trying acupuncture because it really can do wonders to help manage the sx. Sorry if my replies seem so general but TCM (traditional Chinese MEd) views health and illness differently. If you sent me 12 patients with HEP C, they could possibly all have a different diagnosis - with some overlap in TCM terms. So they might all be given different acupuncture points and different herbs. Hope this helps somewhat and doesnt confuse everyone Peace Josie I > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, anyway, have a > > >good time,, I love you too > > >jax > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let >someone > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > www.medicinemom.com > > ******************************************** > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of >JoEllen > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you >in error, > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, >retention,dissemination, > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Here are just a few of the sites that have information on the damage black cohosh can cuase on the liver . Just click on any and type in the search box on the site to get to the information you are looking for . Except for the last link which should take you directly there . www.webmd.com www.medscape.com http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/blackcohosh.html Sally Hines wrote: Can you please cite some references regarding the hepatotoxicity of Black Cohosh? Sally Re: Re: hey One of the natural hormone replacements is black cohosh , tell her to stay away from it . It is hepatatoxic . " JoEllen Donahue Hermes L.Ac. " wrote:At 04:58 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >JoEllen....may I ask you a question? During treatment for a Black lady >(they have a very low success rate with treatment), since we needed to >use whatever would increase her chances of success, we made the >decision to give her hormone replacement since she's post- menopausal. >She is now done with her treatment (she cleared!) and would like to >stop the Premarin....but doesn't want the hot flashes....LOL... > >I said I would look into natural hormones, risk, etc. I would >appreciate your advice. Thanks. Silvia > Hi Silvia We treat patients for menopausal sx all the time using acupuncture itself or combined with herbs. THere are some very commonly used formulas that Clear heat and nourish the Kidney.In this context, the Kidney system, not just the viscera itself as in western medicine but - In Chinese Medicine " Kidney " pertains to aging, growth, reproduction. Often someone complaining of sx like night sweats, thirst, irritability, will be given a standard formula depending on the pattern of sx they present. This can vary sa menopuase can be very involved for some patients yet others breeze through it barely noticing it. So for example someone with alot of internal heat, night sweats, etc. will be given a different rx for example Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan than someone whose symptoms are different like for example insomnia, difficulty concentrating, poor memory- might be given somethign like An Shen Bu Xin Wan which means roughly Strengthen the Heart formula. If this patient made it through the Hep tx- the rest - managing her menopausal sx should be a piece of cake! I would encourage her to see a local acupuncturist/herbalist. for a local referral www.nccaom.org The above formulas are commonly used with success but she really should get someone local to treat and prescribe specifically for her. Often patients with HepC who are taking the pharmaceutical treatment dont want to bother with herbs too. Which I can understand sometimes. These types of herbs would have to be taken consistently or its not worth taking at all. I know I am biased because I love acupuncture and do indeed think it is the coolest thing in the world - but I still strongly suggest to anyone with hep (or menopause for that matter) to consider trying acupuncture because it really can do wonders to help manage the sx. Sorry if my replies seem so general but TCM (traditional Chinese MEd) views health and illness differently. If you sent me 12 patients with HEP C, they could possibly all have a different diagnosis - with some overlap in TCM terms. So they might all be given different acupuncture points and different herbs. Hope this helps somewhat and doesnt confuse everyone Peace Josie I > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, > > >this has upset me more than anything has in the past, > > >I have struggled so hard to get good grades, I have to > > >re read things a million times and sometimes I still > > >cant remember what I read,, so I dont know,, maybe he > > >is right, I will never make a good doc, Who knows,, anyway, have a > > >good time,, I love you too > > >jax > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER let >someone > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > > >josie > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > www.medicinemom.com > > ******************************************** > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of >JoEllen > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended > > only for the named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to you >in error, > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, >retention,dissemination, > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is > > strictly forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Thanks Janet, All of my doctors are aware of all of my medications, vitamins, herbals, and supplements. I print out a fresh accounting every time I see one of my doctors. They get a fresh list with every doctor, every pharmacy, every pill, capsule, etc. Every adverse reaction I've been able to chase down and document, whether in the literature or not. I was one of the first to experience and report the bleeding problems <not gastric> with the ibuprofen product. My doctor at the time discounted it, but my pharmacist took note and reported it. Soon that side became reported as a " rare " incident, now its reported as " uncommon " , which is a bit more frequent than rare. I believed I saw a blanket indictment of the Black Cohosh on this list. Perhaps I misunderstood. If so, I apologize. I certainly would not prescribe a supplement for anyone. I can only say what my experience is, and research information, which I did. I also won't say that no one should ever use ginseng, even though ginseng and siberian ginseng both make me very ill, and they have both been listed both positive and negative in studies. Freezine one out in the Pacific North West in the summer is not an option. Airconditioning is very rare here. When the temperature outside gets warm, the inside gets warmer. I just sweat. Like I said, the summer is pretty much over here, now. I will see. Thank you for the smile. Sally Re: hey Dear Sally, Every thing we eat,drink,take(medications and herbal medications) is metabolized through the liver. So while you have had success with black cohosh does not mean everyone would have the same results.*smile I think the statement here would be that of use all herbal, and prescription medications with caution. Make sure that your doctor is aware of all the medications that you are currently taking, that includes herbal medications. I for one stopped taking hormones along time ago. Rather deal with the symptoms of menopause on my own. And I am careful to make sure that I include calicum in my diet, get exercise to prevent bone loss. But that is me. Now I will tell you, I will freeze you out if you come to my house because of the hot flashes. LOL Between menopause, and the side effect of effexor Xr being excessive sweating. I keep my house on the cool side. The family complains. I tell them to get a blanket!! LOL Love Janet > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Sally the problem with black cohosh has been well documented , I sent ya some links I hope you had the time to look at them , including the fact sheet from the nih (national institute of health) . Trust me from first hand experience the stuff can hurt your liver ..... silvianursey wrote: This is from the NIH....51 cases have been reported....some very serious. This paper discusses a few of them....Silvia http://nccam.nih.gov/news/pastmeetings/blackcohosh_mtngsumm.pdf#casere port > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Sally the problem with black cohosh has been well documented , I sent ya some links I hope you had the time to look at them , including the fact sheet from the nih (national institute of health) . Trust me from first hand experience the stuff can hurt your liver ..... silvianursey wrote: This is from the NIH....51 cases have been reported....some very serious. This paper discusses a few of them....Silvia http://nccam.nih.gov/news/pastmeetings/blackcohosh_mtngsumm.pdf#casere port > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2005 Sally the problem with black cohosh has been well documented , I sent ya some links I hope you had the time to look at them , including the fact sheet from the nih (national institute of health) . Trust me from first hand experience the stuff can hurt your liver ..... silvianursey wrote: This is from the NIH....51 cases have been reported....some very serious. This paper discusses a few of them....Silvia http://nccam.nih.gov/news/pastmeetings/blackcohosh_mtngsumm.pdf#casere port > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 27, 2005 I respectfully disagree with the validity of the association the report cited states that the links are anecdotal, and though bearing further research, are not considered concrete. The report, in fact, is an explanation of the establishment of a clearing house to gather reported events of liver toxicity associated with drugs/herbal products. And further is describing a proposed trial of Black Cohosh to see if there really is any link. I will withdraw even though I am concerned over your position of hepatotoxicity in the face of insufficient and inaccurate data. Based on that same sort of data, anecdotal, I can assure you that beta-carotene is hepatotoxic. That is a very broad and sweeping statement to apply to all people, even to all HCV sufferers. Many have no problems. But it makes me extremely sick, and its clearly my liver that is inflamed. Ultrasound produces acute inflamation in my liver, rendering me sick in bed for several weeks. But this is not a statement that should be made across the board. Similarly, the Black Cohosh data is anecdotal. I will await the further studies, and make no claims regarding toxicity of the substance. Sally Re: hey This is from the NIH....51 cases have been reported....some very serious. This paper discusses a few of them....Silvia http://nccam.nih.gov/news/pastmeetings/blackcohosh_mtngsumm.pdf#casere port > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 27, 2005 I respectfully disagree with the validity of the association the report cited states that the links are anecdotal, and though bearing further research, are not considered concrete. The report, in fact, is an explanation of the establishment of a clearing house to gather reported events of liver toxicity associated with drugs/herbal products. And further is describing a proposed trial of Black Cohosh to see if there really is any link. I will withdraw even though I am concerned over your position of hepatotoxicity in the face of insufficient and inaccurate data. Based on that same sort of data, anecdotal, I can assure you that beta-carotene is hepatotoxic. That is a very broad and sweeping statement to apply to all people, even to all HCV sufferers. Many have no problems. But it makes me extremely sick, and its clearly my liver that is inflamed. Ultrasound produces acute inflamation in my liver, rendering me sick in bed for several weeks. But this is not a statement that should be made across the board. Similarly, the Black Cohosh data is anecdotal. I will await the further studies, and make no claims regarding toxicity of the substance. Sally Re: hey This is from the NIH....51 cases have been reported....some very serious. This paper discusses a few of them....Silvia http://nccam.nih.gov/news/pastmeetings/blackcohosh_mtngsumm.pdf#casere port > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 27, 2005 I respectfully disagree with the validity of the association the report cited states that the links are anecdotal, and though bearing further research, are not considered concrete. The report, in fact, is an explanation of the establishment of a clearing house to gather reported events of liver toxicity associated with drugs/herbal products. And further is describing a proposed trial of Black Cohosh to see if there really is any link. I will withdraw even though I am concerned over your position of hepatotoxicity in the face of insufficient and inaccurate data. Based on that same sort of data, anecdotal, I can assure you that beta-carotene is hepatotoxic. That is a very broad and sweeping statement to apply to all people, even to all HCV sufferers. Many have no problems. But it makes me extremely sick, and its clearly my liver that is inflamed. Ultrasound produces acute inflamation in my liver, rendering me sick in bed for several weeks. But this is not a statement that should be made across the board. Similarly, the Black Cohosh data is anecdotal. I will await the further studies, and make no claims regarding toxicity of the substance. Sally Re: hey This is from the NIH....51 cases have been reported....some very serious. This paper discusses a few of them....Silvia http://nccam.nih.gov/news/pastmeetings/blackcohosh_mtngsumm.pdf#casere port > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this has > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have struggled so > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million times > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > >I love you too > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > let > > >someone > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > of > > >JoEllen > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only for the > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > you > > >in error, > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this message > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 27, 2005 And you just never know Sally....it may work for thousands and then there could be that one case that has problems.....I guess it would be like any medication. Some of the women were also taking other herbal products...so it would be very difficult to tell which one caused the reaction or it was the combination. I don't know much about herbs Sally.....if someone mentions one I usually have to look it up. It is just not something they teach in Nursing school. Silvia > > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this > has > > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have > struggled so > > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million > times > > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > > >I love you too > > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > > let > > > >someone > > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > > of > > > >JoEllen > > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only > for the > > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > > you > > > >in error, > > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this > message > > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 27, 2005 And you just never know Sally....it may work for thousands and then there could be that one case that has problems.....I guess it would be like any medication. Some of the women were also taking other herbal products...so it would be very difficult to tell which one caused the reaction or it was the combination. I don't know much about herbs Sally.....if someone mentions one I usually have to look it up. It is just not something they teach in Nursing school. Silvia > > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this > has > > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have > struggled so > > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million > times > > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > > >I love you too > > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > > let > > > >someone > > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > > of > > > >JoEllen > > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only > for the > > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > > you > > > >in error, > > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this > message > > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 27, 2005 And you just never know Sally....it may work for thousands and then there could be that one case that has problems.....I guess it would be like any medication. Some of the women were also taking other herbal products...so it would be very difficult to tell which one caused the reaction or it was the combination. I don't know much about herbs Sally.....if someone mentions one I usually have to look it up. It is just not something they teach in Nursing school. Silvia > > > > > >Well I think I am going to have to re-think school,, this > has > > > > > >upset me more than anything has in the past, I have > struggled so > > > > > >hard to get good grades, I have to re read things a million > times > > > > > >and sometimes I still cant remember what I read,, so I dont > > > > > >know,, maybe he is right, I will never make a good doc, Who > > > > > >knows,, anyway, have a good time,, > > > > > >I love you too > > > > > >jax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jax- dont give up.It's very easy to be overwhelmed but NEVER > > let > > > >someone > > > > > >else influence what you think you are able to accomplish. > josie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > > > > > JoEllen Donahue Hermes, L.Ac. > > > > > Acupuncture & Herbal Medicine > > > > > www.medicinemom.com > > > > > ******************************************** > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property > > of > > > >JoEllen > > > > > Donahue Hermes, L.Ac., are confidential, and intended only > for the > > > > > named recipient(s) above. If it has been sent to > > you > > > >in error, > > > > > please notify the sender at and delete this > message > > > > > immediately from your computer. Any other use, > > > >retention,dissemination, > > > > > forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > > > > > forbidden. Thank you for your consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
