Re: Question For The Group

[Guest guest]

Randi,

Are you asking us if we think there is a need for another book

for KOs? If so, I think the answer is a resounding YES. I

agree with your assessment of UTBM as pedantic, and think there

is a need for personal stories to be told. I haven't had time

to finish reading the excerpts you included at the end of your

e-mail. Are you offering this as an example of what you might

put in a KO book?

Anon

--- RandiBPD@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/8/01 9:46:20 PM Central Daylight Time,

> bpdsurvivor@... writes:

>

>

> > There are lots of books out there that you might find

> helpful.

> > Have you read Stop Walking on Eggshells (SWOE)? What about

> > Understanding the Borderline Mother (UTBM)?

>

> As you may know, Eggshells press offers SWOE, Hope for

> Parents, Love and

> Loathing, and a tape for those seeking custod of minor

> children to protect

> kids from abusive BPD behavior. At one point (at many points,

> actually) WK

> and I have discussed putting something together for adult

> children. Between

> the two books about kids of moms with narcissisti c BP and

> UTBM (above) so

> you feel we should still do so? I envisioned it as people's

> veiled stories

> just so people know they are not alone.

>

> I will be busy until June 15 or so, so we don't have to decide

> right away.

> But think about it, perhaps. I like UTBM but it is a bit

> pedantic. In the

> SWOE workbook, I put info into columns and simplified it a

> bit. It is in a

> table which doesn't translate well to email. But here it is. I

> see a bit of

> every type in the BP in my life.

>

>

>

> BP THOUGHTS, EMOTIONS, ACTIONS AND CENTRAL DILEMMA BY TYPE OF

> BORDERLINE

> PERSONALITY DISORDER (LAWSON, 2000)

>

> Typical Thoughts Typical Emotions Typical Actions

> and Central

> dilemma

> The

> Waif " I am a worthless victim. I do so want to be loved

> and protected,

> but I am not worthy of it. " Philosophy: The glass is not only

> half-empty,

> but is about to spill all over the floor I just washed.

> Helpless, hopeless,

> despair, Rage masked by sadness and depression, but rage

> released by

> rejection or abandonment. Their own errors or disappointments

> are distorted

> and enlarged, leading to more shame. They feel vulnerable,

> defective,

> anxious, moody, and irrationally fearful. Looks to others to

> " save them, "

> but ultimately refuse assistance because helplessness makes

> them feel safe.

> Why? If they mistrust everyone and lets no one get close, they

> stay in

> control and no one can abandon or disappoint them. May hurt

> themselves to

> express shame, but can rage if they feel rejected or

> abandoned. Don't ask for

> what they need, then appears Martyr-like because others can't

> read their

> minds and give it to them. May have crying spells and be

> unable to give

> nurturing to others.

>

>

> Thoughts Feelings Typical Actions and Central

> Dilemma

> The

> Hermit " It's a dog eat dog world out there and I'm a cat.

> Everyone out

> there is for themselves and no place is safe. Since people

> will always end up

> betraying me, I must be alert for hints or hidden meanings in

> things others

> would consider innocuous. "

> Terrified of not having control, fear of engulfment keeps

> them from

> obtaining comfort. See potential disaster everywhere. Take

> criticism as a

> global condemnation of themselves and depend upon work and

> hobbies for

> self-esteem. Their inner shame is expressed through continual

> criticism of

> others. The hard shell makes these BPs appear confidant,

> determined,

> independent, and even socially graceful. But it's a veneer.

> Like many BPs,

> hermits show one face to the world and another to everyone

> else. Close family

> members experience, " distrust, perfectionism, insecurity,

> anxiety, rage and

> paranoia. " (2000). Holds everyone to same ideal of perfection,

> punishing

> others by raging or shutting them out. Fear of losing

> themselves translates

> into possessiveness about their belongings.

>

> Thoughts Feelings Typical Actions and Central

> Dilemma

> The Queen " I want more attention. I deserve more attention.

> And, by the

> way, what have you done for me lately? "

>

> " My children should fulfill my needs, not the other way

> around. Disagreeing

> with me, going against my wishes, and having needs of their

> own show they

> don't love or respect me. " These include entitlement,

> deprivation,

> emptiness, angry, frustrated, or lonely from the deprivation

> they felt as

> children. Impatient with a low tolerance for frustration;

> pushes others'

> boundaries without regret or even recognition. Driven by

> feelings of

> emptiness and unable to self-sooth, Queens do what it takes to

> get them what

> they feel they so richly de serve--including vindictive acts

> like blackmail.

> Initially they may impress others with their social graces.

> But when

> " friends " can no longer deliver, the Queen cuts them off

> without a thought.

> Queens are capable of real manipulation (Vs. more primitive BP

> defenses) to

> get what they desire.

>

>

> The Witch Typical

> Thoughts Typical Emotions Typical Actions and Central

> Dilemma

>

> Unconsciously, Witches hate themselves because they grew

> up in an

> environment that " required complete submission to a hostile or

> sadistic

> caregiver. " (2000). They continue the cycle by acting cruelly

> to others,

> especially those too weak, young, or powerless to help

> themselves. Feel no

> remorse for nightmarish acts, showing more interest in their

> own well-being

> than concern over the way they've hurt others. Jealousy,

> criticism, betrayal,

> abandonment, feeling left out, and being ignored trigger the

> Witch. Most

> BP parents do not physically abuse their children. Those who

> do probably fall

> into this category. However, usually the abuse occurs when no

> other competent

> adults are present. Thus, family members can live in fear

> while all seems

> well to the outside world. Witches want power and control over

> others so that

> others do not abandon them. When someone or something triggers

> the Witches'

> abandonment fear, these BPs can become brutal and full of

> rage, even

> punishing or killing family member who stand in their way

> (2000). These types

> of BPs are most resistant to treatment: they will not allow

> others to help

> and the source of their self-loathing is very deep.

>

>

>

>

> Randi Kreger

> List owner, Welcome To Oz Lists

> Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells

> Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents

> www.BPDCentral.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Randi,

Are you asking us if we think there is a need for another book

for KOs? If so, I think the answer is a resounding YES. I

agree with your assessment of UTBM as pedantic, and think there

is a need for personal stories to be told. I haven't had time

to finish reading the excerpts you included at the end of your

e-mail. Are you offering this as an example of what you might

put in a KO book?

Anon

--- RandiBPD@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/8/01 9:46:20 PM Central Daylight Time,

> bpdsurvivor@... writes:

>

>

> > There are lots of books out there that you might find

> helpful.

> > Have you read Stop Walking on Eggshells (SWOE)? What about

> > Understanding the Borderline Mother (UTBM)?

>

> As you may know, Eggshells press offers SWOE, Hope for

> Parents, Love and

> Loathing, and a tape for those seeking custod of minor

> children to protect

> kids from abusive BPD behavior. At one point (at many points,

> actually) WK

> and I have discussed putting something together for adult

> children. Between

> the two books about kids of moms with narcissisti c BP and

> UTBM (above) so

> you feel we should still do so? I envisioned it as people's

> veiled stories

> just so people know they are not alone.

>

> I will be busy until June 15 or so, so we don't have to decide

> right away.

> But think about it, perhaps. I like UTBM but it is a bit

> pedantic. In the

> SWOE workbook, I put info into columns and simplified it a

> bit. It is in a

> table which doesn't translate well to email. But here it is. I

> see a bit of

> every type in the BP in my life.

>

>

>

> BP THOUGHTS, EMOTIONS, ACTIONS AND CENTRAL DILEMMA BY TYPE OF

> BORDERLINE

> PERSONALITY DISORDER (LAWSON, 2000)

>

> Typical Thoughts Typical Emotions Typical Actions

> and Central

> dilemma

> The

> Waif " I am a worthless victim. I do so want to be loved

> and protected,

> but I am not worthy of it. " Philosophy: The glass is not only

> half-empty,

> but is about to spill all over the floor I just washed.

> Helpless, hopeless,

> despair, Rage masked by sadness and depression, but rage

> released by

> rejection or abandonment. Their own errors or disappointments

> are distorted

> and enlarged, leading to more shame. They feel vulnerable,

> defective,

> anxious, moody, and irrationally fearful. Looks to others to

> " save them, "

> but ultimately refuse assistance because helplessness makes

> them feel safe.

> Why? If they mistrust everyone and lets no one get close, they

> stay in

> control and no one can abandon or disappoint them. May hurt

> themselves to

> express shame, but can rage if they feel rejected or

> abandoned. Don't ask for

> what they need, then appears Martyr-like because others can't

> read their

> minds and give it to them. May have crying spells and be

> unable to give

> nurturing to others.

>

>

> Thoughts Feelings Typical Actions and Central

> Dilemma

> The

> Hermit " It's a dog eat dog world out there and I'm a cat.

> Everyone out

> there is for themselves and no place is safe. Since people

> will always end up

> betraying me, I must be alert for hints or hidden meanings in

> things others

> would consider innocuous. "

> Terrified of not having control, fear of engulfment keeps

> them from

> obtaining comfort. See potential disaster everywhere. Take

> criticism as a

> global condemnation of themselves and depend upon work and

> hobbies for

> self-esteem. Their inner shame is expressed through continual

> criticism of

> others. The hard shell makes these BPs appear confidant,

> determined,

> independent, and even socially graceful. But it's a veneer.

> Like many BPs,

> hermits show one face to the world and another to everyone

> else. Close family

> members experience, " distrust, perfectionism, insecurity,

> anxiety, rage and

> paranoia. " (2000). Holds everyone to same ideal of perfection,

> punishing

> others by raging or shutting them out. Fear of losing

> themselves translates

> into possessiveness about their belongings.

>

> Thoughts Feelings Typical Actions and Central

> Dilemma

> The Queen " I want more attention. I deserve more attention.

> And, by the

> way, what have you done for me lately? "

>

> " My children should fulfill my needs, not the other way

> around. Disagreeing

> with me, going against my wishes, and having needs of their

> own show they

> don't love or respect me. " These include entitlement,

> deprivation,

> emptiness, angry, frustrated, or lonely from the deprivation

> they felt as

> children. Impatient with a low tolerance for frustration;

> pushes others'

> boundaries without regret or even recognition. Driven by

> feelings of

> emptiness and unable to self-sooth, Queens do what it takes to

> get them what

> they feel they so richly de serve--including vindictive acts

> like blackmail.

> Initially they may impress others with their social graces.

> But when

> " friends " can no longer deliver, the Queen cuts them off

> without a thought.

> Queens are capable of real manipulation (Vs. more primitive BP

> defenses) to

> get what they desire.

>

>

> The Witch Typical

> Thoughts Typical Emotions Typical Actions and Central

> Dilemma

>

> Unconsciously, Witches hate themselves because they grew

> up in an

> environment that " required complete submission to a hostile or

> sadistic

> caregiver. " (2000). They continue the cycle by acting cruelly

> to others,

> especially those too weak, young, or powerless to help

> themselves. Feel no

> remorse for nightmarish acts, showing more interest in their

> own well-being

> than concern over the way they've hurt others. Jealousy,

> criticism, betrayal,

> abandonment, feeling left out, and being ignored trigger the

> Witch. Most

> BP parents do not physically abuse their children. Those who

> do probably fall

> into this category. However, usually the abuse occurs when no

> other competent

> adults are present. Thus, family members can live in fear

> while all seems

> well to the outside world. Witches want power and control over

> others so that

> others do not abandon them. When someone or something triggers

> the Witches'

> abandonment fear, these BPs can become brutal and full of

> rage, even

> punishing or killing family member who stand in their way

> (2000). These types

> of BPs are most resistant to treatment: they will not allow

> others to help

> and the source of their self-loathing is very deep.

>

>

>

>

> Randi Kreger

> List owner, Welcome To Oz Lists

> Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells

> Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents

> www.BPDCentral.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Randy, thanks for the synopsis of the different types of nadas - i don't have

the book so that is really helpful.

BTW, here is a great Mother's Day Card for a nada....

Front cover of card

Thinking of you on Mother's Day......

inside message

...and so are you!

I was discussing my nada with a friend of mine and she came up with that - a

whole new cottage industry - greeting cards for borderlines!!!

LOL

Lissa

[Guest guest]

Randy, thanks for the synopsis of the different types of nadas - i don't have

the book so that is really helpful.

BTW, here is a great Mother's Day Card for a nada....

Front cover of card

Thinking of you on Mother's Day......

inside message

...and so are you!

I was discussing my nada with a friend of mine and she came up with that - a

whole new cottage industry - greeting cards for borderlines!!!

LOL

Lissa

[Guest guest]

Amber

Thanks so much for the reply, I was wondering if anyone out there heard me.

I don't seem to hear very many people mention this problem so I thought maybe

it was just my daughter. I keep waiting for her to grow out of it and some

days it doesn't bother her as much. Fortunately she doesn't complain about her

younger cousins but that may be because she just chooses not to be in the same

area of the house as they are.

Again thanks for the response and good luck with your daughter.

Raeline