Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Posted April 13, 2006 To those of you who are contemplating NH insurance and haven't take that step yet, maybe my experience can give you some hints. Of course, it is too late to get it for those that have already been diagnosed, but this is for yourselves, if you are nearing 50 or older, or perhaps the spouse of the LO who may eventually need care. When we took out LT care insurance 7 years ago, it was just after my husband's sister had been diagnosed with AD but had not been placed in the NH. It was too late for her husband to get it; as a result, he paid $3500 a month for some time; depleted all their assets, of which there were many; ended up dying himself before she did; and then she had to go on Medicaid, with only enough money for burial and $2000 to her name. What a sad state of affairs, for at one time they had been very well off. Well, anyway, we took out the insurance before knowing all this, as she just died this past February, actually the day before my husband was placed in the NH. We took the least expensive plan at that time; $100 a day without taking inflation factor, and a 100-day deductible. I don't know how many of you know the restrictions on placing people in NH under MEDICARE (be sure you know the difference between that and MEDICAID. There has to be a three-day minimum acute-care hospital stay, at which time, unless there is a really serious problem, they will be dismissed and must enter the NH within 30 days of that hospitalization under Medicare rules. The only four things that they can go in under MC rules are physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, and intravenous medication. MC pays for 20 days, full pay, as long as they improve on whatever of the four reasons. In our case, my husband, who was dealing with this chronic UTI that I couldn't get anyone to do anything about it, did not make progress on OT and PT, which are the two things he was eligible for. SO, after 20 days, he was taken off Medicare, and yes, folks, I got the bill Saturday. $9,900 for 27 days in March and 30 days in April (they prebill). In the meantime, I went through all the paperwork for Medicaid, which is a nightmare in itself, and he was approved. At this time, they will probably back up and cover part of this, but if my calculations are correct, I will be paying at least $1000 of this bill. This will continue until he reaches the 100 days until he is eligible for NH insurance to kick in, but it is only $100 a day ($3000 a month), and the cost is $157 a day where he's at. Medicaid will pay $137 a day, leaving me with at least $600 a month, which will come from his SSecurity. In order to get on Medicaid, I had to impoverish myself, which wasn't hard, as we didn't have that much money. I cannot, without great difficulty, continue to run my household without his SS, as it was taking all of our SS and my small pension to get along before. I could not work, because it cost more to get a caretaker than I was making besides all the hassle of getting to and from a place as slow as he was. Because, with a husband and wife, they count both of our incomes and allow a certain amount per month. They will add on the cost of his secondary BCBS plan, Medicare D for drugs, and $30 per month personal expenses. Then, they will allow me the amount over $220 that I pay for taxes and insurance on the house, which in my case is $80. My daughter paid off my house, which was a mistake, because if I were making house payments or paying rent, I could add that in, but it is done now and no going back. So, my advice to those of you considering NH insurance - get a inflation factor build in, at-home care, and either a 30-day or no more than 60-day deductible, unless you have the funds to pay the interim after Medicare goes off in 20 days. Also, I took my husband off as beneficiary of all my life insurance and IRA, 401k, etc., as once they go on Medicaid, should I die before he does, that money would go to them. Also, don't do anything with your house, such as pay off the mortgage, sell it, etc., before division of assets, because I didn't know that once division of assets was done, they told me that he no longer has any interest in the house, and I can do with it whatever I want. I hope I didn't misunderstand this, but that is what they said. Remember, division of assets is for husband/wife only, not parent/child, so if you LO has a living spouse, perhaps some of this information will be helpful to them. I have learned all this since February of this year, and believe me, I wish I had known more before that, but his decline came on very suddenly, and I had to make some quick decisions. NH care will break you, even if you have pretty good assets, as you can take $4500 a month times 12 months, and see what that adds up to. I'm sure the care here is less than other states, i.e., California, NY, etc. If I've managed to confuse anyone, let me know, and I'll try to straighten it out. I'm sure MEDICAID rules are pretty consistent throughout the country, but states may have different regulations. __________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Posted April 14, 2006 June, Let me add to the confusion. I lived in MI and Mom lived in WI. SO her house was in WI. After she lived with me a certain period of time, because her home was NOT in MI, she couldn't keep it. She could only own a home in MI. Fortunately her home was in a trust and not hers so it became exempt. But if it had not been in trust, she would not have been allowed to keep it. I don't know if that is MI rules or anywhere, but it is so important to know the rules. And there are ways to protect your half if it is done soon enough and you have the right lawyer and accountant. And you are right, all this needs to be done early. I told my Aunt and Uncle to do their stuff early. They assured me they had already done that. And the latest law Bush recently signed into order, means they will " look back " 5 years instead of 3 as it has been. Which means if you give your children something in the last 3 years, the government can send your children a bill, as will as you for the other 2 years if someone needs Medicaid.. Do spend your LOs money for a very good lawyer early on so you are protected. I don't believe any wife or husband should be left with nothing because of this disease. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org Nursing Home Insurance Quote
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Posted April 14, 2006 June - Thanks for opening the line of communication on this matter. It's very important. This, too, should be part of the files section. We learned the hard way with tons of problems and errors: * Chose the wrong lawyer, lost $2500, they had dumb ideas that made no sense and to top it off the POA paperwork that they did update for us is now deemed unusable by some (e.g. just yesterday had to go to the bank to try and get the tax earned on a CD that was closed last year. It wasn't in my name (like the active accounts at the same bank) b/c the POA paperwork has white out on it (unbelievable $2500 for paperwork w/ white out) they will not mail me the 1099 for this CD. Thankfully I did get the $ amount so now can do my mother's taxes... * Mom chose not to get long term health ins. years ago when her family suggested it. Bad move... Now we're paying $365 a day at the NH. All of her assets will most likely be sucked dry leaving nothing to the kids (which was her intentions, she lived a very frugal life in order to save money - for what? to pay for NH care) Hopefully our last ditch effort to change the condo to be in 1/2 the kids name worked (using a good lawyer this time) * We had been discussing for a couple of years the need to change her assets into a trust - but it never happened... * Fortunately in my mother's case we were able to use the full amount of Medicare available. She went from hospital to NH, when she no longer showed improvement in PT she was still in skilled need. Then we had the biopsy - and as it turned out (we didn't plan this obviously) it made her continue to be eligible - and she got back into PT and kept improving to continue eligibility status. Now she is 'out of pocket' at $365 a day. It hurts to write that check out once a month - that's for sure. * The state of MA has new rules from February 2006 - look back is now 5 years instead of 3... * The good news - this experience taught my sister a lesson and she and her husband signed up for long term health insurance. My sister is only 40, but her husband is closer to 50. And they have 3 kids. And Huntington's Disease runs in his side of the family - although luckily, he is now in the clear (his father and 2 brothers died of the disease)... But they are now set in case anything should happen... ; loving daughter of Maureen of Boston, MA; finally diagnosed with LBD on 2/06 after also being diagnosed with everything from AD to Vascular Dementia caused by mini strokes to Binswengers...; was victim to rapid decline from Risperidone (or combination of Risperidone with other drugs OR possibly received another " bad drug " when she was observed/tested in a hospital in 10/05); in a NH since 11/05. Update: on antidepressant Celexa, 20mg (still teary, but not as weepy) > > To those of you who are contemplating NH insurance and > haven't take that step yet, maybe my experience can > give you some hints. Of course, it is too late to get > it for those that have already been diagnosed, but > this is for yourselves, if you are nearing 50 or > older, or perhaps the spouse of the LO who may > eventually need care. > > When we took out LT care insurance 7 years ago, it was > > just after my husband's sister had been diagnosed with > AD but had not been placed in the NH. It was too late > for her husband to get it; as a result, he paid $3500 > a month for some time; depleted all their assets, of > which there were many; ended up dying himself before > she did; and then she had to go on Medicaid, with only > enough money for burial and $2000 to her name. What a > sad state of affairs, for at one time they had been > very well off. Well, anyway, we took out the > insurance before knowing all this, as she just died > this past February, actually the day before my husband > was placed in the NH. We took the least expensive > plan at that time; $100 a day without taking inflation > factor, and a 100-day deductible. I don't know how > many of you know the restrictions on placing people in > NH under MEDICARE (be sure you know the difference > between that and MEDICAID. There has to be a > three-day minimum acute-care hospital stay, at which > time, unless there is a really serious problem, they > will be dismissed and must enter the NH within 30 days > of that hospitalization under Medicare rules. The > only four things that they can go in under MC rules > are physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech > therapy, and intravenous medication. MC pays for 20 > days, full pay, as long as they improve on whatever of > the four reasons. In our case, my husband, who was > dealing with this chronic UTI that I couldn't get > anyone to do anything about it, did not make progress > on OT and PT, which are the two things he was eligible > for. SO, after 20 days, he was taken off Medicare, > and yes, folks, I got the bill Saturday. $9,900 for > 27 days in March and 30 days in April (they prebill). > In the meantime, I went through all the paperwork for > Medicaid, which is a nightmare in itself, and he was > approved. At this time, they will probably back up > and cover part of this, but if my calculations are > correct, I will be paying at least $1000 of this bill. > This will continue until he reaches the 100 days > until he is eligible for NH insurance to kick in, but > it is only $100 a day ($3000 a month), and the cost is > $157 a day where he's at. Medicaid will pay $137 a > day, leaving me with at least $600 a month, which will > come from his SSecurity. In order to get on Medicaid, > I had to impoverish myself, which wasn't hard, as we > didn't have that much money. I cannot, without great > difficulty, continue to run my household without his > SS, as it was taking all of our SS and my small > pension to get along before. I could not work, > because it cost more to get a caretaker than I was > making besides all the hassle of getting to and from a > place as slow as he was. Because, with a husband and > wife, they count both of our incomes and allow a > certain amount per month. They will add on the cost > of his secondary BCBS plan, Medicare D for drugs, and > $30 per month personal expenses. Then, they will > allow me the amount over $220 that I pay for taxes and > insurance on the house, which in my case is $80. My > daughter paid off my house, which was a mistake, > because if I were making house payments or paying > rent, I could add that in, but it is done now and no > going back. > > So, my advice to those of you considering NH insurance > - get a inflation factor build in, at-home care, and > either a 30-day or no more than 60-day deductible, > unless you have the funds to pay the interim after > Medicare goes off in 20 days. Also, I took my husband > off as beneficiary of all my life insurance and IRA, > 401k, etc., as once they go on Medicaid, should I die > before he does, that money would go to them. > > Also, don't do anything with your house, such as pay > off the mortgage, sell it, etc., before division of > assets, because I didn't know that once division of > assets was done, they told me that he no longer has > any interest in the house, and I can do with it > whatever I want. I hope I didn't misunderstand this, > but that is what they said. Remember, division of > assets is for husband/wife only, not parent/child, so > if you LO has a living spouse, perhaps some of this > information will be helpful to them. I have learned > all this since February of this year, and believe me, > I wish I had known more before that, but his decline > came on very suddenly, and I had to make some quick > decisions. NH care will break you, even if you have > pretty good assets, as you can take $4500 a month > times 12 months, and see what that adds up to. I'm > sure the care here is less than other states, i.e., > California, NY, etc. > > If I've managed to confuse anyone, let me know, and > I'll try to straighten it out. I'm sure MEDICAID > rules are pretty consistent throughout the country, > but states may have different regulations. > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Posted April 14, 2006 Hi Wow! Those are some hard lessons learned. Thanks for sharing your experiences so the rest of us can be on our toes so to speak. Dena Mother (83) End stages LBD. On Cipro for UTI. No other drugs. Was on Aricept, Namenda, Risperadal, Clonzapam, Prozac. --- wrote: > June - Thanks for opening the line of communication > on this matter. > It's very important. This, too, should be part of > the files section. > We learned the hard way with tons of problems and > errors: > > * Chose the wrong lawyer, lost $2500, they had dumb > ideas that made > no sense and to top it off the POA paperwork that > they did update for > us is now deemed unusable by some (e.g. just > yesterday had to go to > the bank to try and get the tax earned on a CD that > was closed last > year. It wasn't in my name (like the active accounts > at the same > bank) b/c the POA paperwork has white out on it > (unbelievable $2500 > for paperwork w/ white out) they will not mail me > the 1099 for this > CD. Thankfully I did get the $ amount so now can do > my mother's > taxes... > > * Mom chose not to get long term health ins. years > ago when her > family suggested it. Bad move... Now we're paying > $365 a day at the > NH. All of her assets will most likely be sucked dry > leaving nothing > to the kids (which was her intentions, she lived a > very frugal life > in order to save money - for what? to pay for NH > care) Hopefully our > last ditch effort to change the condo to be in 1/2 > the kids name > worked (using a good lawyer this time) > > * We had been discussing for a couple of years the > need to change her > assets into a trust - but it never happened... > > * Fortunately in my mother's case we were able to > use the full amount > of Medicare available. She went from hospital to NH, > when she no > longer showed improvement in PT she was still in > skilled need. Then > we had the biopsy - and as it turned out (we didn't > plan this > obviously) it made her continue to be eligible - and > she got back > into PT and kept improving to continue eligibility > status. Now she > is 'out of pocket' at $365 a day. It hurts to write > that check out > once a month - that's for sure. > > * The state of MA has new rules from February 2006 - > look back is now > 5 years instead of 3... > > * The good news - this experience taught my sister a > lesson and she > and her husband signed up for long term health > insurance. My sister > is only 40, but her husband is closer to 50. And > they have 3 kids. > And Huntington's Disease runs in his side of the > family - although > luckily, he is now in the clear (his father and 2 > brothers died of > the disease)... But they are now set in case > anything should > happen... > > ; loving daughter of Maureen of Boston, MA; > finally diagnosed > with LBD on 2/06 after also being diagnosed with > everything from AD > to Vascular Dementia caused by mini strokes to > Binswengers...; was > victim to rapid decline from Risperidone (or > combination of > Risperidone with other drugs OR possibly received > another " bad drug " > when she was observed/tested in a hospital in > 10/05); in a NH since > 11/05. Update: on antidepressant Celexa, 20mg (still > teary, but not > as weepy) > > > > > > To those of you who are contemplating NH insurance > and > > haven't take that step yet, maybe my experience > can > > give you some hints. Of course, it is too late to > get > > it for those that have already been diagnosed, but > > this is for yourselves, if you are nearing 50 or > > older, or perhaps the spouse of the LO who may > > eventually need care. > > > > When we took out LT care insurance 7 years ago, it > was > > > > just after my husband's sister had been diagnosed > with > > AD but had not been placed in the NH. It was too > late > > for her husband to get it; as a result, he paid > $3500 > > a month for some time; depleted all their assets, > of > > which there were many; ended up dying himself > before > > she did; and then she had to go on Medicaid, with > only > > enough money for burial and $2000 to her name. > What a > > sad state of affairs, for at one time they had > been > > very well off. Well, anyway, we took out the > > insurance before knowing all this, as she just > died > > this past February, actually the day before my > husband > > was placed in the NH. We took the least expensive > > plan at that time; $100 a day without taking > inflation > > factor, and a 100-day deductible. I don't know > how > > many of you know the restrictions on placing > people in > > NH under MEDICARE (be sure you know the difference > > between that and MEDICAID. There has to be a > > three-day minimum acute-care hospital stay, at > which > > time, unless there is a really serious problem, > they > > will be dismissed and must enter the NH within 30 > days > > of that hospitalization under Medicare rules. The > > only four things that they can go in under MC > rules > > are physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech > > therapy, and intravenous medication. MC pays for > 20 > > days, full pay, as long as they improve on > whatever of > > the four reasons. In our case, my husband, who > was > > dealing with this chronic UTI that I couldn't get > > anyone to do anything about it, did not make > progress > > on OT and PT, which are the two things he was > eligible > > for. SO, after 20 days, he was taken off > Medicare, > > and yes, folks, I got the bill Saturday. $9,900 > for > > 27 days in March and 30 days in April (they > prebill). > > In the meantime, I went through all the paperwork > for > > Medicaid, which is a nightmare in itself, and he > was > > approved. At this time, they will probably back > up > > and cover part of this, but if my calculations are > > correct, I will be paying at least $1000 of this > bill. > > This will continue until he reaches the 100 days > > until he is eligible for NH insurance to kick in, > but > > it is only $100 a day ($3000 a month), and the > cost is > > $157 a day where he's at. Medicaid will pay $137 > a > > day, leaving me with at least $600 a month, which > will > > come from his SSecurity. In order to get on > Medicaid, > > I had to impoverish myself, which wasn't hard, as > we > > didn't have that much money. I cannot, without > great > > difficulty, continue to run my household without > his > > SS, as it was taking all of our SS and my small > > pension to get along before. I could not work, > > because it cost more to get a caretaker than I was > > making besides all the hassle of getting to and > from a > > place as slow as he was. Because, with a husband > and > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Posted April 14, 2006 It's all as clear as mud to me, except for one thing. We need to talk to our lawyer, since two of our children have been placed on our house, as co-owners, in order to avoid probate. After we died then they would share to proceeds with their siblings. We did this a number of years ago. The five year range is safe for us. But, we are still co-owners too. If one of us dies will that have an effect on the house? I don't know. Where would all that fit into a NH stay? Ugh! Imogene In a message dated 4/14/2006 7:09:59 AM Central Daylight Time, twomido@... writes: June, Let me add to the confusion. I lived in MI and Mom lived in WI. SO her house was in WI. After she lived with me a certain period of time, because her home was NOT in MI, she couldn't keep it. She could only own a home in MI. Fortunately her home was in a trust and not hers so it became exempt. But if it had not been in trust, she would not have been allowed to keep it. I don't know if that is MI rules or anywhere, but it is so important to know the rules. And there are ways to protect your half if it is done soon enough and you have the right lawyer and accountant. And you are right, all this needs to be done early. I told my Aunt and Uncle to do their stuff early. They assured me they had already done that. And the latest law Bush recently signed into order, means they will " look back " 5 years instead of 3 as it has been. Which means if you give your children something in the last 3 years, the government can send your children a bill, as will as you for the other 2 years if someone needs Medicaid.. Do spend your LOs money for a very good lawyer early on so you are protected. I don't believe any wife or husband should be left with nothing because of this disease. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the Quote
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Posted April 14, 2006 Excellent advise. Thank you Donna R. I am going to print out your letter. Imo0gene In a message dated 4/14/2006 10:59:09 PM Central Daylight Time, twomido@... writes: Imogene, Mom had it all set up I got everyting if she died. The problem was she didn't die. And that is a major problem. The next problem was If I died before Mom! Then my kids got nothing. it went to Mom who had given half her stuff to the step children because of the second marriage. So see an attorney for your particular situation, even if it is just to do a consultation and ask if you have done it correctly. It really makes it a mess with this dementia stuff. And because you put only 2 kids on the house, and they are to divide with their siblings, do you know this will be done. I have heard lots of times things change after parents die. And if it isn't in writing, the 2 that own the house can say, they helped you (and maybe they will) or anything up to " they wanted us to have it. " And unless it is in writing, legally no one can argue about it. After having such a mess with my Mom, I am going to be very clear about if I die or if I don't or what ever. And the new catch phrase everyone is using in their will or whatever is: " and whoever fights this, gets nothing, " Amazing things happen that you wouldn't believe after Parents die. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org -----Original Message----- From: Iward27663@... Sent: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:55:13 -0700 To: LBDcaregivers Subject: Re: Nursing Home Insurance [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Welcome to LBDcaregivers. Quote
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Posted April 14, 2006 Imogene, Mom had it all set up I got everyting if she died. The problem was she didn't die. And that is a major problem. The next problem was If I died before Mom! Then my kids got nothing. it went to Mom who had given half her stuff to the step children because of the second marriage. So see an attorney for your particular situation, even if it is just to do a consultation and ask if you have done it correctly. It really makes it a mess with this dementia stuff. And because you put only 2 kids on the house, and they are to divide with their siblings, do you know this will be done. I have heard lots of times things change after parents die. And if it isn't in writing, the 2 that own the house can say, they helped you (and maybe they will) or anything up to " they wanted us to have it. " And unless it is in writing, legally no one can argue about it. After having such a mess with my Mom, I am going to be very clear about if I die or if I don't or what ever. And the new catch phrase everyone is using in their will or whatever is: " and whoever fights this, gets nothing, " Amazing things happen that you wouldn't believe after Parents die. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org Re: Nursing Home Insurance Quote
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Posted April 15, 2006 I wanted to respond to that outcome of not splitting assests as agreed. As you may remember, my Grandma (not LBD) died in January. While she did not have a lot, what she did have has my only brother's name on. Her will said that we were to split everything between the three of us siblings. Her only child, our Dad, died in Jan, 1996. Well to shorten the story, my brother is also executor of the will. When my sister questioned him about Grandma's will and how much was in in, he got very angry, called us greedy, and many other nasty things. He at one point told my sister that there was $20,000.00 in a bank account. Funny thing is when Grandma stayed with me last fall I saw her information, her bank account had $30,000.00 and she had GIC's of $13,000.00! Both the bank account and GIC's list my brother as joint holder. Grandma did this to avoid probate and time. NOw her most cherished boy is showing his true colours. We do not have a legal leg to stand on, he can keep it all, or choose to give us a little. It is my understandig that this $20,000.00 will pay for funeral, head stone, and outstanding bills first. Another sad note in my crazy family life. I thank God for my sister. Another thing that iritated me was that Grandma could have afforded assisted living, but refused to do that. At least it would have been better than a NH. , borough, ON cg to MIL > > Imogene, > > Mom had it all set up I got everyting if she died. The problem was she didn't die. And that is a major problem. > > The next problem was If I died before Mom! Then my kids got nothing. it went to Mom who had given half her stuff to the step children because of the second marriage. > > So see an attorney for your particular situation, even if it is just to do a consultation and ask if you have done it correctly. It really makes it a mess with this dementia stuff. > > And because you put only 2 kids on the house, and they are to divide with their siblings, do you know this will be done. I have heard lots of times things change after parents die. And if it isn't in writing, the 2 that own the house can say, they helped you (and maybe they will) or anything up to " they wanted us to have it. " And unless it is in writing, legally no one can argue about it. > > After having such a mess with my Mom, I am going to be very clear about if I die or if I don't or what ever. And the new catch phrase everyone is using in their will or whatever is: " and whoever fights this, gets nothing, " Amazing things happen that you wouldn't believe after Parents die. > > Donna R > > Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: > > http://www.lewybodydementia.org > > > Re: Nursing Home Insurance > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Posted April 15, 2006 , I am sorry your brother is doing what he is doing. But it makes the exact point I was talking about. We think we know people and we don't until someone dies! And then it causes all sorts of family conflicts. I should think with the will and asking for an " accounting " with a lawyer would force your brother to split as Grandma wanted. It always takes a lawyer. And her final expenses do come out prior to any split. Many states are now passing a " recovery law " which I didn't learn about until Sandie got her $80,000 bill after her Dad died. MI is trying to pass that law now as are other states who don't have it. It says that if our LO uses Medicaid, after their death, the state can try and recover from their estate, any Medicaid that was used. The other thing I wanted to say is that we have been talking about spouses and legal issues. For those who are not a spouse, all the rules are different. It is hard enough to be caregiver without the emotional problems that go with legal issues after their death. That is why a good lawyer is worth it. I did spend lots of money on lawyers who didn't do much. So get one who knows what they are doing. After caring for mom for 3 years, a lawyer who did know, asked if I had been taking out of her account, the cost of a nh for those 3 years! I didn't know I could. So once the money was gone, I ended up spending my money to keep her going. These problems we don't need along with all the difficulties of caregiving. I hope I am not stressing people out more, but rather informing them so protect themselves ahead of time. Lots of good wishes to all over the Easter Holiday. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org Re: Nursing Home Insurance Quote
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Posted April 15, 2006 Not stressing me at all. You are just reinforcing what I need to do, Donna R. We do have a good lawyer, but we need to sit down with him very soon. I want to be sure with all the laws changing, etc. that we are on the right track. Thanks for the reinforcement to act soon, and no regrets later. Imogene Caregiver for my True Texas Gentleman husband of 35 years. He has AD and possibly LBD, is Taking Aricept and Risperdal. Age 72 in May. In a message dated 4/15/2006 7:45:50 AM Central Daylight Time, twomido@... writes: , I am sorry your brother is doing what he is doing. But it makes the exact point I was talking about. We think we know people and we don't until someone dies! And then it causes all sorts of family conflicts. I should think with the will and asking for an " accounting " with a lawyer would force your brother to split as Grandma wanted. It always takes a lawyer. And her final expenses do come out prior to any split. Many states are now passing a " recovery law " which I didn't learn about until Sandie got her $80,000 bill after her Dad died. MI is trying to pass that law now as are other states who don't have it. It says that if our LO uses Medicaid, after their death, the state can try and recover from their estate, any Medicaid that was used. The other thing I wanted to say is that we have been talking about spouses and legal issues. For those who are not a spouse, all the rules are different. It is hard enough to be caregiver without the emotional problems that go with legal issues after their death. That is why a good lawyer is worth it. I did spend lots of money on lawyers who didn't do much. So get one who knows what they are doing. After caring for mom for 3 years, a lawyer who did know, asked if I had been taking out of her account, the cost of a nh for those 3 years! I didn't know I could. So once the money was gone, I ended up spending my money to keep her going. These problems we don't need along with all the difficulties of caregiving. I hope I am not stressing people out more, but rather informing them so protect themselves ahead of time. Lots of good wishes to all over the Easter Holiday. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org -----Original Message----- From: sandra_dil Sent: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:47:22 -0700 To: LBDcaregivers Subject: Re: Nursing Home Insurance [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Welcome to LBDcaregivers. Quote
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Posted April 15, 2006 Hi Donna, I told this story to also point out that this can happen. My sister and I knew he would do this though, Grandma was blinded. Funny thing is she always called us to do things for her and we were the ones always running 2 1/2 to 3 hour drives to help her. I know that expenses come out first, I related that part to show that he was explaining what was there, or really what he was admitting to, and that not much would be left he he was done what needed to be done. In Ontario, Canada, since his name was on things, they do not enter the estate and therefore no legal recourse, this comes from a lawyer. We are going to another lawyer soon to see if we can go from a different angle, but it is my understanding that legally he can do it as only what she owned on her own makes (a few pieces of furniture which he is not even discussing with us, and her jewelry box is at his house, though only inexpensive things they hold sentimental value for my sister and I)it into the estate and that is what a will deals with. My only reason to tell this story is to let people know it can happen within families and to pick wisely when putting names on things to avoid probate. This too shall pass, I am saddened though by this chasm. , borough, ON cg to MIL, aged 69 exelon, seroquel, tylenol, citalopram, fosamax, senekot > > , > > I am sorry your brother is doing what he is doing. But it makes the exact point I was talking about. We think we know people and we don't until someone dies! And then it causes all sorts of family conflicts. > > > I should think with the will and asking for an " accounting " with a lawyer would force your brother to split as Grandma wanted. It always takes a lawyer. And her final expenses do come out prior to any split. > > Many states are now passing a " recovery law " which I didn't learn about until Sandie got her $80,000 bill after her Dad died. MI is trying to pass that law now as are other states who don't have it. It says that if our LO uses Medicaid, after their death, the state can try and recover from their estate, any Medicaid that was used. > > The other thing I wanted to say is that we have been talking about spouses and legal issues. For those who are not a spouse, all the rules are different. > > It is hard enough to be caregiver without the emotional problems that go with legal issues after their death. That is why a good lawyer is worth it. I did spend lots of money on lawyers who didn't do much. So get one who knows what they are doing. > > After caring for mom for 3 years, a lawyer who did know, asked if I had been taking out of her account, the cost of a nh for those 3 years! I didn't know I could. So once the money was gone, I ended up spending my money to keep her going. > > These problems we don't need along with all the difficulties of caregiving. I hope I am not stressing people out more, but rather informing them so protect themselves ahead of time. > > Lots of good wishes to all over the Easter Holiday. > > Donna R > > Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: > > http://www.lewybodydementia.org > > > Re: Nursing Home Insurance > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Posted April 15, 2006 Amen , Good words of caution. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org Re: Nursing Home Insurance Quote
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Posted April 15, 2006 It isn't only that it happens when the parents die; in my family's case, it was a maiden aunt who had a rather substantial estate with 13 nieces and nephews. One of the nieces decided she didn't like what was in the will, so found a technicality and fought it. In the end, in went to several courts, and when it was all settled, the lawyers and court costs, etc., had taken so much, none of us got much of anything. But, you are right, when someone dies and there is money involved, it can really change people. --- sandra_dil wrote: > I wanted to respond to that outcome of not splitting > assests as > agreed. As you may remember, my Grandma (not LBD) > died in January. > While she did not have a lot, what she did have has > my only brother's > name on. Her will said that we were to split > everything between the > three of us siblings. Her only child, our Dad, died > in Jan, 1996. > Well to shorten the story, my brother is also > executor of the will. > When my sister questioned him about Grandma's will > and how much was > in in, he got very angry, called us greedy, and many > other nasty > things. He at one point told my sister that there > was $20,000.00 in > a bank account. Funny thing is when Grandma stayed > with me last fall > I saw her information, her bank account had > $30,000.00 and she had > GIC's of $13,000.00! Both the bank account and > GIC's list my brother > as joint holder. Grandma did this to avoid probate > and time. NOw > her most cherished boy is showing his true colours. > We do not have a > legal leg to stand on, he can keep it all, or choose > to give us a > little. It is my understandig that this $20,000.00 > will pay for > funeral, head stone, and outstanding bills first. > Another sad note > in my crazy family life. I thank God for my sister. > Another thing > that iritated me was that Grandma could have > afforded assisted > living, but refused to do that. At least it would > have been better > than a NH. > > , borough, ON > cg to MIL > > > > > > > Imogene, > > > > Mom had it all set up I got everyting if she died. > The problem was > she didn't die. And that is a major problem. > > > > The next problem was If I died before Mom! Then > my kids got > nothing. it went to Mom who had given half her > stuff to the step > children because of the second marriage. > > > > So see an attorney for your particular situation, > even if it is > just to do a consultation and ask if you have done > it correctly. It > really makes it a mess with this dementia stuff. > > > > And because you put only 2 kids on the house, and > they are to > divide with their siblings, do you know this will be > done. I have > heard lots of times things change after parents die. > And if it isn't > in writing, the 2 that own the house can say, they > helped you (and > maybe they will) or anything up to " they wanted us > to have it. " And > unless it is in writing, legally no one can argue > about it. > > > > After having such a mess with my Mom, I am going > to be very clear > about if I die or if I don't or what ever. And the > new catch phrase > everyone is using in their will or whatever is: " > and whoever fights > this, gets nothing, " Amazing things happen that you > wouldn't believe > after Parents die. > > > > Donna R > > > > Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can > also read the > Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: > > > > http://www.lewybodydementia.org > > > > > > Re: Nursing Home > Insurance > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Posted April 17, 2006 Was this a " Will " or a " Living Trust " ? In a Living Trust it is very legal and popular here in California to add this sentence in the LT, " And if anyone questions or contests this Trust then that/those person/persons will be immediately disinherited " or some comics put " ...will get one US dollar. " * * * * * * * It isn't only that it happens when the parents die; in my family's case, it was a maiden aunt who had a rather substantial estate with 13 nieces and nephews. One of the nieces decided she didn't like what was in the will, so found a technicality and fought it. In the end, in went to several courts, and when it was all settled, the lawyers and court costs, etc., had taken so much, none of us got much of anything. But, you are right, when someone dies and there is money involved, it can really change people. Quote
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Posted April 17, 2006 We have had all the paper work in order years ago. The problem is, it was years ago, and is now outdated. We have learned about feeding tubes, and also look at our passing differently, since we are older. We don't want any heroic measures. But, I do insist on having morphine even if they think I don't know, or feel, a thing. You are so right, we do need to " get on it, " as one of my husband's employees used to say. Yep, get on it! (grin) Imogene In a message dated 4/17/2006 7:59:00 PM Central Daylight Time, LadySmilingAtU2@... writes: imogene, i too am going to tell you to do it quick as we had a lawyer come in 4 months after daddy was diagnosed it took teh lawyer 6 weeks to complete everything and by the time he got it completed dad was no longer able to express his wishes adn the lawyer said had he not already talked to dad thoroughly about his wishes he wouldnt have been able to complete the paperwork. so please complete it quickly we got in just under the gun thankfully, but even then daddy didnt express his wishes to lawyer accurately, but the lawyer did as did said i had to correct the errors upon his death, sigh please you and everyone else who does not have a will/POA/ medical directives done do so immediately before you have to go thru courts to do it. hugs sharon m From: Iward27663@... Date: 2006/04/15 Sat PM 02:22:43 EDT To: LBDcaregivers Subject: Re: Re: Nursing Home Insurance Not stressing me at all. You are just reinforcing what I need to do, Donna R. We do have a good lawyer, but we need to sit down with him very soon. I want to be sure with all the laws changing, etc. that we are on the right track. Thanks for the reinforcement to act soon, and no regrets later. Imogene Caregiver for my True Texas Gentleman husband of 35 years. He has AD and possibly LBD, is Taking Aricept and Risperdal. Age 72 in May. In a message dated 4/15/2006 7:45:50 AM Central Daylight Time, twomido@... writes: , I am sorry your brother is doing what he is doing. But it makes the exact point I was talking about. We think we know people and we don't until someone dies! And then it causes all sorts of family conflicts. I should think with the will and asking for an " accounting " with a lawyer would force your brother to split as Grandma wanted. It always takes a lawyer. And her final expenses do come out prior to any split. Many states are now passing a " recovery law " which I didn't learn about until Sandie got her $80,000 bill after her Dad died. MI is trying to pass that law now as are other states who don't have it. It says that if our LO uses Medicaid, after their death, the state can try and recover from their estate, any Medicaid that was used. The other thing I wanted to say is that we have been talking about spouses and legal issues. For those who are not a spouse, all the rules are different. It is hard enough to be caregiver without the emotional problems that go with legal issues after their death. That is why a good lawyer is worth it. I did spend lots of money on lawyers who didn't do much. So get one who knows what they are doing. After caring for mom for 3 years, a lawyer who did know, asked if I had been taking out of her account, the cost of a nh for those 3 years! I didn't know I could. So once the money was gone, I ended up spending my money to keep her going. These problems we don't need along with all the difficulties of caregiving. I hope I am not stressing people out more, but rather informing them so protect themselves ahead of time. Lots of good wishes to all over the Easter Holiday. Donna R Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the LBD Newsletter. Just click on: http://www.lewybodydementia.org -----Original Message----- From: sandra_dil Sent: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:47:22 -0700 To: LBDcaregivers Subject: Re: Nursing Home Insurance [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Welcome to LBDcaregivers. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Welcome to LBDcaregivers. Yahoo! Groups Links a smile a day, keeps the meanies away!!!! Welcome to LBDcaregivers. Quote
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Posted April 17, 2006 It was a will prepared by an attorney, who didn't make one little thing quite clear in the will, and it was grounds enough for the years-long lawsuits. --- juperant@... wrote: > Was this a " Will " or a " Living Trust " ? In a Living > Trust it is very legal > and popular here in California to add this sentence > in the LT, " And if anyone > questions or contests this Trust then that/those > person/persons will be > immediately disinherited " or some comics put > " ...will get one US dollar. " > > * * * * * * * > It isn't only that it happens when the parents die; > in > my family's case, it was a maiden aunt who had a > rather substantial estate with 13 nieces and > nephews. > One of the nieces decided she didn't like what was > in > the will, so found a technicality and fought it. In > the end, in went to several courts, and when it was > all settled, the lawyers and court costs, etc., had > taken so much, none of us got much of anything. > But, > you are right, when someone dies and there is money > involved, it can really change people. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote
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