Re: Angry @ OCD

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim,

I know it must be so hard to watch your almost adult child struggle and not make

the best choices, when you have provided every opportunity. My dh is a

recovering for drug addict. He has said how hard it is for his fellow NA members

to watch their own children struggle with addictions and be so helpless to " fix "

it. So many of them are going through it with their own kids and they have to at

some point let go and let them hit a bottom. But, it is hard to watch their own

kids crash and burn as young adults knowing that there is help and a better way.

They have lived it themselves. But, it seems the kids have to learn it on their

own. You can provide help and support, but you can't make them take it.

That being said, I'm so not looking forward to a time when I have to let my 9

year old baby " go " and make his own choices. Hopefully, we got him help early

and he won't struggle as much when he is older with either addiction or ocd, but

it is no guarantee. We can't control everything. That serenity prayer works

well. And I'm not a religious person in general.

I agree with finding some distance, some space and time for yourself. I think

Al-anon calls it loving boundaries or detaching with love, something like that.

I only went a few times. It is amazing how well these things cross over into

other areas of life. I think it applies in our lives, especially once they are

older. But, even now. I can't fix this in Ben. I can help if he wants it. I do

have more control, he's 9, but not really.

Take time for you, it is important so you can be there when he is ready. Take

care.

J

Re: Angry @ OCD

I feel for you and your son. Believe me verbal sparring does not help. I know,

I've done it.

I'm not battling my son, and battling the OCD monster.

What has helped is my parenting group (doesn't matter what age the kids are).

I have

been attending a group called " Mindful Parenting " We meet every 2 weeks for 2

hours. It's

loosely based on kind of a Zen/psychotherapy type approach to therapy. I am

not a

spiritual person, but the meditation really helps. It clears your mind. You

let the thoughts

come, and then you need to let them go. Even if you only have 5 minutes,

meditate. Try it

if you haven't. Meditation is not some spacey new age type thing (necessarily)

like I used

to think. Also, getting support from the other people in the group helps. Plus

group

therapy is a lot cheaper than regular one-on-one therapy.

I need to calm myself down frequently because of the constant disruptions from

this

puzzling sad disease. Also what helps--think about something that you LOVE to

do and

then make sure you treat yourself about once every 2 weeks or once a month. I

need to set

am actual firm date or I won't do it--no time, too expensive, etc. Go to the

driving range

at the golf course and hit a bucket of balls. Even if you don't golf, there

are always golf

instructors hanging around to give tips or intro lessons. Get a massage. They

even have

massage places at the mall now. Go for a walk in a beautiful place or even

spend time in

a bookstore and have a coffee. All these things can lighten the anger load.

Also, when I feel like going at it with my kid from some OCD related thing I

force myself to

wait--don't say it--I often cool down in just 15 minutes. I can't let the OCD

take over

my life like it's taken over my kid's.

>

> I'm the one that posted that has the 18 yr old in college, he will

> not go the dentist, I found out he is not going to school, I talk to

> him and he won't talk about his OCD, he just tells me nothing will

> help his OCD He refuses to take advantage of medicine and or therapy

> because he knows they will not work.

>

> I ask him why he thinks his OCD is different that all the other

> people with COD who found treatment that works.

>

> So my question is not really about my son not wanting help, it's

> about the pent up anger that I feel toward my son and his OCD, I just

> get so damn frustrated, I could snap and spit some really bad stuff

> out, I would make Carlin look like a saint. I haven't done

> it, but damn I've come close, I just get so frustrated.

>

> What do you all do as parents to help with your frustrations and

> anger???

>

> I went to a counselor and I know anger will not help and I'm

> comfortable in my decision concerning my son, I've provided him many

> many opportunities and he has reject each and every one of them.

> It's time for him to seek or make his own opportunities and make his

> own choices.

>

> I'm still angry at the entire situation

>

> Kindest regards

> Tim Wahl

>

[Guest guest]

I totally understand your anger at OCD. There's been many a time I've

told our son I wish I could rip it out of his mind and stomp it into

the ground. Fortunately, we both laugh about it.

The only thing I can share, Tim, is my experience with a husband who

was drinking alcoholically and self medicating his OCD. Being a

recovering alcoholic of 22 years, I knew when his drinking got out of

control, and he was even hiding it (obviously not well -lol), that I

could ask him to stop, but that he needed to WANT it, in order for it

to work. I think it is same with OCD. They need to WANT it, or they

won't do the work necessary to get well.

When they are young, they listen to their parents and cooperate

better, but when they are older, and being rebellious for the sake of

being rebellious, they sometimes just flat out will not listen. Even

if it will benefit them, and is for their own good. Our son is 16,

and a good kid, but he has his moments of that.

What I found worked with my husband is, I couldn't force him, but I

could give him incentives. I laid the law down, giving him choices.

He could either go into treatment, get sober, and go on medication for

his anger and OCD, or pack his stuff and leave. The problem is, you

have to mean it (whatever alternative option you give them).

Hopefully, they will choose right, or will figure it out quickly, if

they don't. My husband, fortunately, chose his family.

Tough love is tough all around, hurting all involved.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you.

BJ

>

> I'm the one that posted that has the 18 yr old in college, he will

> not go the dentist, I found out he is not going to school, I talk to

> him and he won't talk about his OCD, he just tells me nothing will

> help his OCD He refuses to take advantage of medicine and or therapy

> because he knows they will not work.

>

> I ask him why he thinks his OCD is different that all the other

> people with COD who found treatment that works.

>

> So my question is not really about my son not wanting help, it's

> about the pent up anger that I feel toward my son and his OCD, I just

> get so damn frustrated, I could snap and spit some really bad stuff

> out, I would make Carlin look like a saint. I haven't done

> it, but damn I've come close, I just get so frustrated.

>

> What do you all do as parents to help with your frustrations and

> anger???

>

> I went to a counselor and I know anger will not help and I'm

> comfortable in my decision concerning my son, I've provided him many

> many opportunities and he has reject each and every one of them.

> It's time for him to seek or make his own opportunities and make his

> own choices.

>

> I'm still angry at the entire situation

>

> Kindest regards

> Tim Wahl

>

[Guest guest]

I feel for you and your son. Believe me verbal sparring does not help. I know,

I've done it.

I'm not battling my son, and battling the OCD monster.

What has helped is my parenting group (doesn't matter what age the kids are). I

have

been attending a group called " Mindful Parenting " We meet every 2 weeks for 2

hours. It's

loosely based on kind of a Zen/psychotherapy type approach to therapy. I am not

a

spiritual person, but the meditation really helps. It clears your mind. You

let the thoughts

come, and then you need to let them go. Even if you only have 5 minutes,

meditate. Try it

if you haven't. Meditation is not some spacey new age type thing (necessarily)

like I used

to think. Also, getting support from the other people in the group helps. Plus

group

therapy is a lot cheaper than regular one-on-one therapy.

I need to calm myself down frequently because of the constant disruptions from

this

puzzling sad disease. Also what helps--think about something that you LOVE to

do and

then make sure you treat yourself about once every 2 weeks or once a month. I

need to set

am actual firm date or I won't do it--no time, too expensive, etc. Go to the

driving range

at the golf course and hit a bucket of balls. Even if you don't golf, there are

always golf

instructors hanging around to give tips or intro lessons. Get a massage. They

even have

massage places at the mall now. Go for a walk in a beautiful place or even

spend time in

a bookstore and have a coffee. All these things can lighten the anger load.

Also, when I feel like going at it with my kid from some OCD related thing I

force myself to

wait--don't say it--I often cool down in just 15 minutes. I can't let the OCD

take over

my life like it's taken over my kid's.

>

> I'm the one that posted that has the 18 yr old in college, he will

> not go the dentist, I found out he is not going to school, I talk to

> him and he won't talk about his OCD, he just tells me nothing will

> help his OCD He refuses to take advantage of medicine and or therapy

> because he knows they will not work.

>

> I ask him why he thinks his OCD is different that all the other

> people with COD who found treatment that works.

>

> So my question is not really about my son not wanting help, it's

> about the pent up anger that I feel toward my son and his OCD, I just

> get so damn frustrated, I could snap and spit some really bad stuff

> out, I would make Carlin look like a saint. I haven't done

> it, but damn I've come close, I just get so frustrated.

>

> What do you all do as parents to help with your frustrations and

> anger???

>

> I went to a counselor and I know anger will not help and I'm

> comfortable in my decision concerning my son, I've provided him many

> many opportunities and he has reject each and every one of them.

> It's time for him to seek or make his own opportunities and make his

> own choices.

>

> I'm still angry at the entire situation

>

> Kindest regards

> Tim Wahl

>

[Guest guest]

Hang in there and know that you are not alone.

Having two boys with Shwachman-Diamond Syndrome (SDS) and running a

non-profit helping SDS families, I hear a lot of this same thing. Parents

become angry with the SDS monster..or OCD monster or other monsters we

battle. What you are feeling is normal. We do not want to see our

children struggle and suffer. We do our best as they grow up to help them

overcome their weaknesses and build upon their strengths. Once they are

old enough, they have to decide what they want to do. Sometimes that

doesn't agree with what we want.

Children with chronic illnesses have to take a lot of medication and do

other things that they do not like to do. Every child questions and asks,

" What if? " For my children, taking pancreatic enzymes with everything they

eat is something they do not like doing..they had to go off of them for some

testing and that is when they realized that they keep them from experiencing

severe abdominal pain.

I say all this to say that everyone wants to be healthy-like their peers..

And when you aren't, you may try to be like them by saying, " I don't need

meds " or whatever the case may be. As a parent, it is frustrating,

mind-numbing and crazy-making to watch our children throw caution to the

wind and do things that are not in their best interest. sigh.

Unfortunately, even without OCD...teenagers test the waters, young adults

want to " find themselves " -I did it and I suspect most of you did it, too.

Adding a chronic condition into the mix only accentuates that the rebellion

is there-it makes us notice the search for identity and normalcy even more.

Peace be with you,

Pattie

Family website: www.shwachman.50megs.com

Mom to age 12, Shwachman-Diamond Syndrome; ph age 11,

Shwachman-Diamond Syndrome, OCD, neurogenic bladder; age 14 and

healthy

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim.

What can you do? That is a hard question. Anger cancels out all other emotions

so at the moment I wouldn't do anything. Sometimes you just have to be angry.

Anger, like all bad feeling emotions are hell to work through. Right now you

just have to ride this wave.

We can't unfortunately change anyone or their beliefs but we can change the way

that we feel and react.

For me yoga is the key. I would say that any type of exercise would be

beneficial to help work out frustrations. Breathing also is an important key.

I have learned a very easy and quick way to calm myself. This breathing

technique is from Dr. Weil.

Take a deep inhale through your nose for <4> seconds...hold this breath in for

<8> seconds...slowly exhale this breath through pursed lips. If you can't hold

the breaths for this long hold them for as long as YOU can. Do this <4> times

in a row.

Love and Light,

Angry @ OCD

I'm the one that posted that has the 18 yr old in college, he will

not go the dentist, I found out he is not going to school, I talk to

him and he won't talk about his OCD, he just tells me nothing will

help his OCD He refuses to take advantage of medicine and or therapy

because he knows they will not work.

I ask him why he thinks his OCD is different that all the other

people with COD who found treatment that works.

So my question is not really about my son not wanting help, it's

about the pent up anger that I feel toward my son and his OCD, I just

get so damn frustrated, I could snap and spit some really bad stuff

out, I would make Carlin look like a saint. I haven't done

it, but damn I've come close, I just get so frustrated.

What do you all do as parents to help with your frustrations and

anger???

I went to a counselor and I know anger will not help and I'm

comfortable in my decision concerning my son, I've provided him many

many opportunities and he has reject each and every one of them.

It's time for him to seek or make his own opportunities and make his

own choices.

I'm still angry at the entire situation

Kindest regards

Tim Wahl

[Guest guest]

You are in a tough situation, Tim, and I feel for you.

Something you said made me think. . .Our son used video games a lot to

distract from his thoughts, when things were really bad. He was able

to tune his OCD out when he was playing them, and that was helpful to

him. I don't know if that is the case for your son. . Maybe he just

likes video games, but thought I would mention it. It could be a way

that he copes.

BJ

> >

> > The problem we have when getting a post like this is that we don't

> know the whole situation to be able to best guide you.  Did you and

> your son ever have a close relationship?  Are there issues that may

> make him uncomfortable opening up to you?  You have mentioned that

> you are divorced.  Were you the custodial parent?  I have thought

> about your son often ever since your first one because I have

> tremendous empathy for him and am actually worrying about him, a

> young man hurting so badly and so alone.  An 18 year old nowadays is

> still a kid.  An 18 year old with severe OCD is a very vulnerable,

> depressed, kid who is struggling so hard to hang on that he is not

> capable of taking care of himself properly.  I was such a kid.  As

> I have written to you before, I would be very happy to call your son

> to try to help him to see that getting help is not as scary as he

> thinks it would be.  I do understand how absolutely terrified he is

> of getting help and how absolutely sure he is that it wouldn't help.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim

Whew! You're carrying a lot on your back and have been for a longtime. I wish

that I had a dad like you. Just a silly question here. Do you think that your

son has depression. I'm not an expert but it seems to me that he has many of

the symptoms.

My personal story is; I grew up with a mom that had depression, and was

bi-polar at the high end of the spectrum. She also had many personality

disorders. She also was a practicing alcoholic. Everyone around her suffered.

She never could make her way through this life. For some reason which I'll

never know, she wouldn't seek help. She self medicated herself with alcohol.

Even though we as children were dragged through her nightmare with her, we still

loved her. It hurt to love her. That never stopped us from trying to get her

help. As small children my brother and I would call a local rehab and beg them

to help her. The answer was that she had to be the one to ask.

There is a fine line between being an independent adult and being a danger to

society. There were many times that my mom put other people in danger. One

time she was drunk and drove into someone's house. There also was the time that

she was put in protective custody because she was at a local bar/restaurant and

started chasing a lady around with a steak knife. I could go on and on but I'm

sure that you get the picture.

During all this my grandmother and myself would always make things easy for her

so that maybe it would make the difference. Everything we did never worked. We

never stopped trying. We became co-dependant which I didn't realize at the time

but during this mess I was able through intensive therapy able to stop this

cycle for myself.

I know that you have been suffering but think long and hard about your next

move. Two choices, keep holding on to your son and his problems or let him

completely on his own. Both are very painful.

I know that these two choices stink. The answer really depends on what you are

willing to go through. I pray that you all find some middle ground.

God Bless

P.S. If anyone is wondering what ever happened to my mom. My mom passed away

five years ago at the age of 59. She finally has peace.

Re: Angry @ OCD

I do appreciate your story and I understand living with OCD is hard,

I've seen it, I live it too, I'm coming to realize after joining the

OCD support group that I probably OCD as well, I know my mom has it.

What I'm telling you is I can't help this kid because he doesn't want

ANY help, he thinks nothing will help. I'm not going to bring that

into my house, I'm not going to support him living in a cave hiding

from his problems. I've given him more oppurunites than most kids

have in life, I'm tired and I'm worn out, I can't help someone that

doesn't want help, there just is nothing more I can do. You don't

understand I get nothing from him but the statement, Nothing can help

me dad and I don't want to talk about it.

He was raised by his mother, I got him on weekends, his mother will

not allow him back in her house, she kicked him out several weeks

before his 18th birthday this summer and he's on his own as far as

she is concerned, thats what her parents did and thats what she

thinks is right thing to do, he wasn't happy there anyway because

they wanted him to do stuff to help around the house and this kid

doesn't want to do anything but play video games, video games are his

life.

When he went to school I wasn't going to let him have internet, then

I found he needed a class that was only available online, so I backed

down and let him have it, I'm afraid that was probably a mistake as

he just OCD's on the games and plays for hours and hours.

I'll email you privately his phone #, at this point it sure can't

hurt.

You may not agree with me and I'm sorry about, I'm doing the best I

can and I don't think hiding him in a cave at home is the answer.

I've given him many oppurunites, he fails to take advantage of them,

Car, Dentist, Doctors, Medicine, School, functions and events with

family and on and on.

I understand he is a Kid, but at 18 you can no longer control them,

they are adults, I can no longer make this kid do anything, he

doesn't want to do anything but hide from the world, he won't go out

in public, he has hair in the front totally covering his face, I

think from what I can gather it's to hide from the world or to hide

his pimples from the public, I don't know because he won't talk to me

or anyone about his OCD, again because NOTHING WILL HELP HIM so he

thinks and says over and over and over

I can't help him out at school because he won't sign a form, so they

won't talk to me, his Psyc teacher is a licensed counselor, I was

going to ask if she could help him with a few sessions, but she will

not talk to me without the proper form because of the privacy act.

Everything I do it tossed back in my face and not used, after awhile

you get tired of helping, I'm sorry if you feel I'm wrong, while I

respect your position and experience I hope you will also respect

mine.

Peace and thanks

Tim Wahl

>

> The problem we have when getting a post like this is that we don't

know the whole situation to be able to best guide you. Â Did you and

your son ever have a close relationship? Â Are there issues that may

make him uncomfortable opening up to you? Â You have mentioned that

you are divorced. Â Were you the custodial parent? Â I have thought

about your son often ever since your first one because I have

tremendous empathy for him and am actually worrying about him, a

young man hurting so badly and so alone. Â An 18 year old nowadays is

still a kid. Â An 18 year old with severe OCD is a very vulnerable,

depressed, kid who is struggling so hard to hang on that he is not

capable of taking care of himself properly. Â I was such a kid. Â As

I have written to you before, I would be very happy to call your son

to try to help him to see that getting help is not as scary as he

thinks it would be. Â I do understand how absolutely terrified he is

of getting help and how absolutely sure he is that it wouldn't help.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tim,

I " m so sorry you're going thru such a difficult time with your son. It's agony

enough watching a younger child go thru this, but I can't imagine watching a

person you love actively choose not to get help. It sure sounds like the video

games are his " coping " mechanism. My DD, 14, sits at our computer almost every

night, writing stories. She's always liked to do this, but never so much as

now; I would estimate she's written at least 10 or more short fantasy stories in

less than 2 weeks! I wonder, sometimes, if her medication (Zoloft) has opened

her literary floodgates!

I am just curious, by the way, what does your son do to survive financially?

Are you supporting him or is he holding down a job? Does he live in an

apartment or the dorms? Just wondering what his circumstances are...

One thing I thought of is maybe to call him up and just take him out to dinner

or do something fun with him and not talk about OCD at all. No talk of doctors,

therapies, medicines, no pressure, just the two of you hanging out, letting him

know you accept and love him just as he is, and when he is ready to get back on

track, you'll be there for him. Even my 14-year old HATES it when I try to

" help " her; I've really had to tell myself to back off sometimes and just let

things be.

I'll say a prayer that things get better and that maybe Jordana can help him

out, too.

Debbie

_____________________________________________________________

Help is here! Click now for simple and easy Financial Advice.

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[Guest guest]

>

> I'm the one that posted that has the 18 yr old in college, he will

> not go the dentist, I found out he is not going to school, I talk to

> him and he won't talk about his OCD, he just tells me nothing will

> help his OCD He refuses to take advantage of medicine and or therapy

> because he knows they will not work.

>

> I ask him why he thinks his OCD is different that all the other

> people with COD who found treatment that works.

>

> So my question is not really about my son not wanting help, it's

> about the pent up anger that I feel toward my son and his OCD, I just

> get so damn frustrated, I could snap and spit some really bad stuff

> out, I would make Carlin look like a saint. I haven't done

> it, but damn I've come close, I just get so frustrated.

>

> What do you all do as parents to help with your frustrations and

> anger???

>

> I went to a counselor and I know anger will not help and I'm

> comfortable in my decision concerning my son, I've provided him many

> many opportunities and he has reject each and every one of them.

> It's time for him to seek or make his own opportunities and make his

> own choices.

>

> I'm still angry at the entire situation

>

> Kindest regards

> Tim Wahl

>

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say a quick thank you for all for your help and

suggestions, I own a really good horse and if it wasn't for him I would

most certianly go crazy, they call me canter king, really it's cheap

therapy LOL

Tim Wahl

[Guest guest]

I'm glad to hear that you have an outlet for keeping your sanity. Giddy up!

Re: Angry @ OCD

I just wanted to say a quick thank you for all for your help and

suggestions, I own a really good horse and if it wasn't for him I would

most certianly go crazy, they call me canter king, really it's cheap

therapy LOL

Tim Wahl

[Guest guest]

Animals are great, priceless therapy. I'm glad you have your horse,

Tim.

BJ

>

> I just wanted to say a quick thank you for all for your help and

> suggestions, I own a really good horse and if it wasn't for him I would

> most certianly go crazy, they call me canter king, really it's cheap

> therapy LOL

>

> Tim Wahl

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Tim,

    Although I can't completely relate to all you have been

through with your son, I can relate a little.  I have an 18 yr old

son with OCD.  (((Hugs))) to you.  It's not easy raising teens,

then add OCD, and then add refusing help; I can understand the

frustration.  Our son has not refused help, so I don't really have a

lot of advice as far as how to get your son to accept help.  I do

think they have to want the help though.  I do know that what you are

dealing with is not easy and it sounds like you are doing the best you

can.  Like they say, they don't come with manuals.  Shoot, I'd be

happy to just have the section in the back of the manual,

Troubleshooting Problems. LOL   I can appreciate Jordana's story.

 I think it helps all of us to hear what it is like for our teens who

are struggling with OCD.  18 yr olds are still kids; still pretty

immature.  But at the same time, they do have to take some

responsibility for themselves and deal with the consequences of their

decisions.  OCD can make that more difficult for them, but I think

they need real consequences for their OCD behaviors or they don't have

an incentive to fight it.  It sounds to me like you really care about

your son and that you are trying to let him deal with real consequences

for his OCD.  One thing different between your son and Jordana's

situation as an 18 yr old is that your son is male.  I think in a lot

of cases it is harder for males to accept help than females.  A lot

of guys can see that as a weakness.  I mentioned our son has not

refused help, but he did at one point stop taking his medicine.  When

asked why, he said he felt like he was depending on the medicine too

much; felt he shouldn't depend on the medicine.  He also mentioned he

didn't think the medicine was helping anyway.  Thankfully his

therapist convinced him to get back on the medication.  I wonder if

that is some of what might be going on with your son.  You mentioned

he keeps saying nothing will help him.  I wonder if he might be

saying that because he feels like he shouldn't need help; that he should

be able to handle it all on his own.    As far as dealing with the

anger and frustration, I think many here have mentioned taking time for

yourself.  That is important to do.  Sounds like you have been

doing that by spending time riding your horse.  Hang in there.

Take care   Connie

> >

> > The problem we have when getting a post like this is that we don't

> know the whole situation to be able to best guide you.  Did you

and

> your son ever have a close relationship?  Are there issues that

may

> make him uncomfortable opening up to you?  You have mentioned that

> you are divorced.  Were you the custodial parent?  I have

thought

> about your son often ever since your first one because I have

> tremendous empathy for him and am actually worrying about him, a

> young man hurting so badly and so alone.  An 18 year old nowadays

is

> still a kid.  An 18 year old with severe OCD is a very vulnerable,

> depressed, kid who is struggling so hard to hang on that he is not

> capable of taking care of himself properly.  I was such a kid.

 As

> I have written to you before, I would be very happy to call your son

> to try to help him to see that getting help is not as scary as he

> thinks it would be.  I do understand how absolutely terrified he

is

> of getting help and how absolutely sure he is that it wouldn't help.

> >

> >

>