Re: Three months on Valtrex, unclear results/Stan

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi everyone, I've been lurking on the list for a while and am

finding

> > it really interesting - thanks Stan!

> >

> > My son is 10 and has been doing biomedical stuff since he was

> > 4...GFCFSF, then SCD with enzymes for two years now. He has

enzyme

> > deficiency per a scope 2 years ago, was a good responder to

secretin.

> > His gut functioning improved a lot with several monthly secretin

> > infusions, diet and enzymes, and it has been a while since he had

> > yeast/bacteria issues. We did the Immunosciences Premier Autism

Panel

> > 16 months ago. His viral panel showed that he is a serious viral

kid,

> > also extremely low secretory IgA (so low they redid the test to

make

> > sure). We have been doing MB12 shots for 16 months, just started

> > alternating shots with the spray about a month ago, every day he

gets

> > one or the other. Last winter he was on Valtrex (500mg twice a

day)

> > for about a month or two and he did well behaviorally. This

winter he

> > has been on it three months, we just finished the third Rx. This

year

> > we did not see improvement, other than his OCD that is usually

very

> > bad in the winter was almost nonexistent(through trial and error

we

> > determined the OCD to be viral in origin, as it never responded

to

> > antibiotics). Other than the help with OCD, I would say he has

been

> > worse than usual (seems more stimmy, silly, etc.). I would think

that

> > this could be the " healing regression " I have read about here,

but it

> > has been a long time and we saw nothing other than that, no rash,

no

> > warts, only one head cold/lethargic period a couple of weeks ago

> > which is just clearing up now.

> >

> > I'm wondering what to do now. Continue with Valtrex? Try

Virastop?

> > Check for yeast?

> >

> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.

> >

> > TIA,

> >

> > Mae Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

With OCD improvement I wouldn't give up on Valtrex just yet.

First, and would absolutely get an antifungal onboard if you decide to continue

the

Valtrex. You don't have to see the external signs you are suggesting to have a

yeast

problem. Most of our kids have a yeast issue and with antifungal therapy the

odds go way

up.

To give Valtrex a fair shake, I would get an antifungal onboard. Based on that

result there

are many ways you could go from there so report back and let us know.

- Stan

> > >

> > > Hi everyone, I've been lurking on the list for a while and am

> finding

> > > it really interesting - thanks Stan!

> > >

> > > My son is 10 and has been doing biomedical stuff since he was

> > > 4...GFCFSF, then SCD with enzymes for two years now. He has

> enzyme

> > > deficiency per a scope 2 years ago, was a good responder to

> secretin.

> > > His gut functioning improved a lot with several monthly secretin

> > > infusions, diet and enzymes, and it has been a while since he had

> > > yeast/bacteria issues. We did the Immunosciences Premier Autism

> Panel

> > > 16 months ago. His viral panel showed that he is a serious viral

> kid,

> > > also extremely low secretory IgA (so low they redid the test to

> make

> > > sure). We have been doing MB12 shots for 16 months, just started

> > > alternating shots with the spray about a month ago, every day he

> gets

> > > one or the other. Last winter he was on Valtrex (500mg twice a

> day)

> > > for about a month or two and he did well behaviorally. This

> winter he

> > > has been on it three months, we just finished the third Rx. This

> year

> > > we did not see improvement, other than his OCD that is usually

> very

> > > bad in the winter was almost nonexistent(through trial and error

> we

> > > determined the OCD to be viral in origin, as it never responded

> to

> > > antibiotics). Other than the help with OCD, I would say he has

> been

> > > worse than usual (seems more stimmy, silly, etc.). I would think

> that

> > > this could be the " healing regression " I have read about here,

> but it

> > > has been a long time and we saw nothing other than that, no rash,

> no

> > > warts, only one head cold/lethargic period a couple of weeks ago

> > > which is just clearing up now.

> > >

> > > I'm wondering what to do now. Continue with Valtrex? Try

> Virastop?

> > > Check for yeast?

> > >

> > > Any thoughts would be appreciated.

> > >

> > > TIA,

> > >

> > > Mae Lynn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> With OCD improvement I wouldn't give up on Valtrex just yet.

>

> First, and would absolutely get an antifungal onboard if you decide

to continue the

> Valtrex. You don't have to see the external signs you are

suggesting to have a yeast

> problem. Most of our kids have a yeast issue and with antifungal

therapy the odds go way

> up.

>

> To give Valtrex a fair shake, I would get an antifungal onboard.

Based on that result there

> are many ways you could go from there so report back and let us

know.

>

Thanks, Stan! Just FYI and to follow up:

Our DAN wants me to get him on OLE (which I guess is anti-viral,

-fungal and -bacterial) until our phone consult next week. Then we

will decide what to do then. We will discuss the antifungal and

possibly adding another antiviral.

Interestingly, since being off the Valtrex, which is the only change,

he has gotten even WORSE: VERY gassy (which we haven't seen in months

and months) stimmy, and more OCD. Do you think that he is having yeast

die off now that the Valtrex is gone? Is that possible? Does anyone

know what exactly causes the yeast while on Valtrex? Does it feed

yeast or does the yeast just increase as the viruses clear out?

Thanks,

Mae Lynn

[Guest guest]

My son was also very gassy for 2 days after we stopped Valtrex. I

found that very interesting as he also got gassy on the herbal CBNS

drops which are anti-yeast, anti-viral, anti-parasatic and anti-

bacterial. I too think the gassyness was from yeast die-off, but

ofcourse can't say that for sure.

Sangeeta

> >

> > With OCD improvement I wouldn't give up on Valtrex just yet.

> >

> > First, and would absolutely get an antifungal onboard if you

decide

> to continue the

> > Valtrex. You don't have to see the external signs you are

> suggesting to have a yeast

> > problem. Most of our kids have a yeast issue and with antifungal

> therapy the odds go way

> > up.

> >

> > To give Valtrex a fair shake, I would get an antifungal onboard.

> Based on that result there

> > are many ways you could go from there so report back and let us

> know.

> >

>

> Thanks, Stan! Just FYI and to follow up:

>

> Our DAN wants me to get him on OLE (which I guess is anti-viral,

> -fungal and -bacterial) until our phone consult next week. Then we

> will decide what to do then. We will discuss the antifungal and

> possibly adding another antiviral.

>

> Interestingly, since being off the Valtrex, which is the only

change,

> he has gotten even WORSE: VERY gassy (which we haven't seen in

months

> and months) stimmy, and more OCD. Do you think that he is having

yeast

> die off now that the Valtrex is gone? Is that possible? Does anyone

> know what exactly causes the yeast while on Valtrex? Does it feed

> yeast or does the yeast just increase as the viruses clear out?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mae Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

>

> My son was also very gassy for 2 days after we stopped Valtrex. I

> found that very interesting as he also got gassy on the herbal CBNS

> drops which are anti-yeast, anti-viral, anti-parasatic and anti-

> bacterial. I too think the gassyness was from yeast die-off, but

> ofcourse can't say that for sure.

Thanks, Sangeeta, for sharing that. Yes, they told me at school that

he was really gassy again today, and when he got home, he had one of

those horrible, mushy, burn-your-eyes-smelly poops that I thought I'd

never see again. Needless to say, I am pretty down about it. After a

couple of years of SCD-style " trophies, " I'm awfully bummed.

Did you go back on Valtrex? I might!!!

Mae Lynn

[Guest guest]

No, we're off the Valtrex but still on Nystatin. I haven't noticed

the gassyness today, so looks like the nystatin took care of the

little yeast flareup (if it was that!).

Sangeeta

> >

> > My son was also very gassy for 2 days after we stopped Valtrex. I

> > found that very interesting as he also got gassy on the herbal

CBNS

> > drops which are anti-yeast, anti-viral, anti-parasatic and anti-

> > bacterial. I too think the gassyness was from yeast die-off, but

> > ofcourse can't say that for sure.

>

> Thanks, Sangeeta, for sharing that. Yes, they told me at school

that

> he was really gassy again today, and when he got home, he had one

of

> those horrible, mushy, burn-your-eyes-smelly poops that I thought

I'd

> never see again. Needless to say, I am pretty down about it. After

a

> couple of years of SCD-style " trophies, " I'm awfully bummed.

>

> Did you go back on Valtrex? I might!!!

>

> Mae Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

RE: Gassyness. Interestingly, lots of people, my son included, are

seeing that when starting LDN. Apparently LDN does bring up yeast issues

in some. I wonder if it is the same type of

immune/anti-viral/anti-bacterial/yeast = gas type thing that we are

seeing here.

On the other hand, my son's gassyness was quite bad for the first week

or so on LDN, and has now gone down a lot, which makes me think that it

was not just yeast-related, as we have not started any anti-fungals yet

(hard to get hold of here) and I believe his yeast issue is just as bad

as it was last week, if not worse. ... actually, my bet now would be

that LDN caused some sort of gut- viral or bacterial (or both) die-off,

which was followed by gassiness in the beginning only, sort of

adjustment period.

Natasa

p.s. could you please share some info on CBNS drops?

> > >

> > > My son was also very gassy for 2 days after we stopped Valtrex. I

> > > found that very interesting as he also got gassy on the herbal

> CBNS

> > > drops which are anti-yeast, anti-viral, anti-parasatic and anti-

> > > bacterial. I too think the gassyness was from yeast die-off, but

> > > ofcourse can't say that for sure.

> >

> > Thanks, Sangeeta, for sharing that. Yes, they told me at school

> that

> > he was really gassy again today, and when he got home, he had one

> of

> > those horrible, mushy, burn-your-eyes-smelly poops that I thought

> I'd

> > never see again. Needless to say, I am pretty down about it. After

> a

> > couple of years of SCD-style " trophies, " I'm awfully bummed.

> >

> > Did you go back on Valtrex? I might!!!

> >

> > Mae Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

CBNS stands for Cumanda, Burbur, Noni and Samento.

Here is the website to order it:

http://nutramedix.net/index.shtml

The detailed information on each of the products (Just click on the

bottles) is available at the following link:

http://www.bionatus.com/nutramedix/

Sangeeta

> > > >

> > > > My son was also very gassy for 2 days after we stopped

Valtrex. I

> > > > found that very interesting as he also got gassy on the herbal

> > CBNS

> > > > drops which are anti-yeast, anti-viral, anti-parasatic and

anti-

> > > > bacterial. I too think the gassyness was from yeast die-off,

but

> > > > ofcourse can't say that for sure.

> > >

> > > Thanks, Sangeeta, for sharing that. Yes, they told me at school

> > that

> > > he was really gassy again today, and when he got home, he had

one

> > of

> > > those horrible, mushy, burn-your-eyes-smelly poops that I

thought

> > I'd

> > > never see again. Needless to say, I am pretty down about it.

After

> > a

> > > couple of years of SCD-style " trophies, " I'm awfully bummed.

> > >

> > > Did you go back on Valtrex? I might!!!

> > >

> > > Mae Lynn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I wonder if it is the same type of

> immune/anti-viral/anti-bacterial/yeast = gas type thing that we are

> seeing here.

> Natasa

It's all very counterintuitive (at least in my mind). Wouldn't you

think that you would see the gassiness, smelly BMs, etc. the first

few days ON Valtrex, and not the few days to a week after it is

stopped? Can anyone help me get my mind around this? It is confusing

because there is literally nothing else different in his diet or

supplements, just the end of three months on Valtrex. It is sadly

reminiscent of his gut situation way back when - before SCD, before

enzymes. As I said, he has really been great gut wise - no bacteria,

no yeast, for at least a year. SIGH.

Another thought I had was that if we assume the viruses declined,

leaving room for the yeast and probably bacteria to thrive on the

Valtrex, why now are they dying? What is killing them? OR, are they

thriving even more? Henry is not on an anti-fungal (other than the

garlic he has been taking daily for some time) until I speak to the

DAN next week.

I don't know if I expect an answer...just thinking " out loud " and

hoping someone has some insight.

Mae Lynn

[Guest guest]

OLE seems to only work on viruses. The coming off of Valtrex might have stopped

the

detox and then may have some viral kill off and a flair of yeast.... something

along those

lines. Again, either way I really believe you should get back on.

Valtrex does not seem to feed the yeast, but antiviral therapy seems to kick up

yeast...

even OLE and other natural methods.

I think you're focused on Valtrex as doing bad things, which is backwards from

how I see

these symtoms. These symptoms sound like the result of stopping in the middle

of the

magic that Valtex often does.

- Stan

> >

> > With OCD improvement I wouldn't give up on Valtrex just yet.

> >

> > First, and would absolutely get an antifungal onboard if you decide

> to continue the

> > Valtrex. You don't have to see the external signs you are

> suggesting to have a yeast

> > problem. Most of our kids have a yeast issue and with antifungal

> therapy the odds go way

> > up.

> >

> > To give Valtrex a fair shake, I would get an antifungal onboard.

> Based on that result there

> > are many ways you could go from there so report back and let us

> know.

> >

>

> Thanks, Stan! Just FYI and to follow up:

>

> Our DAN wants me to get him on OLE (which I guess is anti-viral,

> -fungal and -bacterial) until our phone consult next week. Then we

> will decide what to do then. We will discuss the antifungal and

> possibly adding another antiviral.

>

> Interestingly, since being off the Valtrex, which is the only change,

> he has gotten even WORSE: VERY gassy (which we haven't seen in months

> and months) stimmy, and more OCD. Do you think that he is having yeast

> die off now that the Valtrex is gone? Is that possible? Does anyone

> know what exactly causes the yeast while on Valtrex? Does it feed

> yeast or does the yeast just increase as the viruses clear out?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mae Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I would think that gas is fungal related as well.

- Stan

> > >

> > > With OCD improvement I wouldn't give up on Valtrex just yet.

> > >

> > > First, and would absolutely get an antifungal onboard if you

> decide

> > to continue the

> > > Valtrex. You don't have to see the external signs you are

> > suggesting to have a yeast

> > > problem. Most of our kids have a yeast issue and with antifungal

> > therapy the odds go way

> > > up.

> > >

> > > To give Valtrex a fair shake, I would get an antifungal onboard.

> > Based on that result there

> > > are many ways you could go from there so report back and let us

> > know.

> > >

> >

> > Thanks, Stan! Just FYI and to follow up:

> >

> > Our DAN wants me to get him on OLE (which I guess is anti-viral,

> > -fungal and -bacterial) until our phone consult next week. Then we

> > will decide what to do then. We will discuss the antifungal and

> > possibly adding another antiviral.

> >

> > Interestingly, since being off the Valtrex, which is the only

> change,

> > he has gotten even WORSE: VERY gassy (which we haven't seen in

> months

> > and months) stimmy, and more OCD. Do you think that he is having

> yeast

> > die off now that the Valtrex is gone? Is that possible? Does anyone

> > know what exactly causes the yeast while on Valtrex? Does it feed

> > yeast or does the yeast just increase as the viruses clear out?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Mae Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Right before my son started improving he had several days of really nasty

diarrhea right

before his gains began. It's common and temporary, especially if you have an

antifungal

onboard.

- Stan

> >

> > My son was also very gassy for 2 days after we stopped Valtrex. I

> > found that very interesting as he also got gassy on the herbal CBNS

> > drops which are anti-yeast, anti-viral, anti-parasatic and anti-

> > bacterial. I too think the gassyness was from yeast die-off, but

> > ofcourse can't say that for sure.

>

> Thanks, Sangeeta, for sharing that. Yes, they told me at school that

> he was really gassy again today, and when he got home, he had one of

> those horrible, mushy, burn-your-eyes-smelly poops that I thought I'd

> never see again. Needless to say, I am pretty down about it. After a

> couple of years of SCD-style " trophies, " I'm awfully bummed.

>

> Did you go back on Valtrex? I might!!!

>

> Mae Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

These are good questions. There are bowel changes that happen from the outset

of

Valtrex, but it seems there is a process that has to take place a step at a

time. It's possible

you need to shed a certain amount of virus prior to metals detox or vice versa.

Remember, metals detox dumps to the stool and so may some of the sulfur groups

that

they attach to when they are removed (sulfur feeds yeast). I just thought about

this just

now, so I have to let it sink in and talk it through but... I'm sure there is a

reason. We just

need to figure it out. This is just one possibility.

- Stan

> >

> > I wonder if it is the same type of

> > immune/anti-viral/anti-bacterial/yeast = gas type thing that we are

> > seeing here.

> > Natasa

>

> It's all very counterintuitive (at least in my mind). Wouldn't you

> think that you would see the gassiness, smelly BMs, etc. the first

> few days ON Valtrex, and not the few days to a week after it is

> stopped? Can anyone help me get my mind around this? It is confusing

> because there is literally nothing else different in his diet or

> supplements, just the end of three months on Valtrex. It is sadly

> reminiscent of his gut situation way back when - before SCD, before

> enzymes. As I said, he has really been great gut wise - no bacteria,

> no yeast, for at least a year. SIGH.

>

> Another thought I had was that if we assume the viruses declined,

> leaving room for the yeast and probably bacteria to thrive on the

> Valtrex, why now are they dying? What is killing them? OR, are they

> thriving even more? Henry is not on an anti-fungal (other than the

> garlic he has been taking daily for some time) until I speak to the

> DAN next week.

>

> I don't know if I expect an answer...just thinking " out loud " and

> hoping someone has some insight.

>

> Mae Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Stan,

Thanks for your response, I am going to mull it all over, especially

what you said about metals detox. Please post any new thoughts you

get! We'll figure it out.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Valtrex had hurt

instead of helped. I KNOW that it was doing something good, if only

by helping so much with the OCD. I was just shocked to see that awful

stool I thought was gone forever (BTW, his gas is gone, BMs better).

My DAN asked me if it was time for a regression on SCD. I heard Judy

Gorman discuss that at DAN but I didn't feel comfortable with it, it

bothers me when people " explain things " by saying, " Oh, yes, it's the

old (fill in the month number) regression. " My son has been on SCD

for about 2 1/2 years. The 2 1/2 year regression? I don't think that

makes as much sense as something to do with Valtrex, given the timing.

Anyway, my hope is to get back on Valtrex along with a yeast med

(like Nizorel) and keep up with the OLE (started with 250mg

yesterday). Do you think we would need a anibacterial too? Is that

too many meds?

Mae Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Mae,

This sounded like a Valtrex / yeast related issue. I don't think SCD had

anything to do

with it.

I would get on an antifungal (nothing wrong with nizoral IMO) and probiotics

(for bacteria)

at least. Don't take them at the same time. If you think you need something

strong,

many people take Flagyl or other meds for an antibacterial, but I would start

with the

probiotics first and see what happens. We never did anything more than

probiotics.

Stan.

>

> Stan,

>

> Thanks for your response, I am going to mull it all over, especially

> what you said about metals detox. Please post any new thoughts you

> get! We'll figure it out.

>

> I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Valtrex had hurt

> instead of helped. I KNOW that it was doing something good, if only

> by helping so much with the OCD. I was just shocked to see that awful

> stool I thought was gone forever (BTW, his gas is gone, BMs better).

>

> My DAN asked me if it was time for a regression on SCD. I heard Judy

> Gorman discuss that at DAN but I didn't feel comfortable with it, it

> bothers me when people " explain things " by saying, " Oh, yes, it's the

> old (fill in the month number) regression. " My son has been on SCD

> for about 2 1/2 years. The 2 1/2 year regression? I don't think that

> makes as much sense as something to do with Valtrex, given the timing.

>

> Anyway, my hope is to get back on Valtrex along with a yeast med

> (like Nizorel) and keep up with the OLE (started with 250mg

> yesterday). Do you think we would need a anibacterial too? Is that

> too many meds?

>

> Mae Lynn

>