Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I was thinking about: 1. getting her a hepa filter (temp. measure) 2. trying to locate social services agencies in TX to address her roofing and plumbing needs, 3. doing the remediation 4. and getting the materials for put back. This is the ideal situation. However, we may need to find other measures that are more realistic and less costly. Does anyone have any ideas? I had a client once who was so pissed off at remediation contractors because of their screwing up her home during a remediation that she refused to leave the home during a second remediation effort--by another contractor even. I designed a plan to isolate her in a part of the home not undergoing remediation, but with access to the bathroom. The bathroom did not require much remediation, but did require cleaning. It was done in less than a shopping trip to the mall. You could do the same by positively pressurizing the occupied area while remediation areas are negatively pressurized. To cover your tail, you should monitor the areas for at least pressure and get a disclaimer signed by the woman. I would also make sure the remediation guys are well-instructed on the situation and instruct the occupant on not entering remediation areas. ****************************************************** If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. On the other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you. ****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBA Indoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc. PO Box 7 Bethel, OH 45106-0007 VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@... ******************************************************* Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I've decided not to continue with IAQ. Not only am I a cheapskate, I find that the opinions of most of the IAQ members concerning mold are flat out wrong and completely counterproductive to someone living at anywhere near my level of sensitivity. And I've found a vast number of such people! I think that the risks of maintaining occupancy during remediation are unacceptible in anything but the most minor mold circumstance. The solution I would propose is working with RV manufacturers to design a special MCS friendly trailer which can be easily decontaminated and providing this as a " safe zone " while you work. Depending on the property, the trailer might be parked locally and yet quickly moved if the situation demands. It's always good to have a " Plan B " . the StachySterian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 That would be a great solution, however, the only bathroom has active mold growth and is in the worst part of the home. We could possibly temporarily relocate her if a full remediation was going to be performed. Since insurance isn't covering it and she lacks the funds, we need some "creative" solutions to a bad situation. If we could get the plumbing and roofing services donated, we could probably get the remediation done, but the water intrusion issues is what is stalling remediation efforts. Without funding for that aspect, a remediation would be pointless. Thanks, Larkin, Executive Director Mold Relief, Inc. www.moldrelief.org Support Kerry for President: the only candidate addressing indoor air quality: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/index.html?source_code=00013543 -----Original Message-----From: Matt Klein Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:56 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: low cost solutions I was thinking about: 1. getting her a hepa filter (temp. measure) 2. trying to locate social services agencies in TX to address her roofing and plumbing needs, 3. doing the remediation 4. and getting the materials for put back. This is the ideal situation. However, we may need to find other measures that are more realistic and less costly. Does anyone have any ideas? I had a client once who was so pissed off at remediation contractors because of their screwing up her home during a remediation that she refused to leave the home during a second remediation effort--by another contractor even. I designed a plan to isolate her in a part of the home not undergoing remediation, but with access to the bathroom. The bathroom did not require much remediation, but did require cleaning. It was done in less than a shopping trip to the mall. You could do the same by positively pressurizing the occupied area while remediation areas are negatively pressurized. To cover your tail, you should monitor the areas for at least pressure and get a disclaimer signed by the woman. I would also make sure the remediation guys are well-instructed on the situation and instruct the occupant on not entering remediation areas. ******************************************************If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. Onthe other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you.****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBAIndoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.PO Box 7Bethel, OH 45106-0007VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@...*******************************************************Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 My personal opinion based on my own experience from years of dealing with this; If the mold is Stachy, the risks of attempting isolation and containment while keeping the inhabitants in situ so far outweigh the benefits that it isn't worth doing. But if you do, it would be a very good thing to have an evacuation plan in place. I realize that people are driven to the very brink of desperation and survival and may have exhausted their funds by expensive but unproductive doctor visits. Still. A person who is suffering already can so easily have severe exacerbation of illness by the slightest breach of containment that " if it were me, I'd get them out. " Teachers at North Tahoe High school wound up on disability from a colony " about the size of a grapefruit " . - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 , How about running this as a project by a local civic group and see if they want to undertake the construction part with you doing the remediation? Jeff Bishop 3113 Oxmoor Ind. Blvd. Dothan, AL 36303 fax www.CleanCareSeminars.com -----Original Message-----From: Larkin Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 3:08 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions That would be a great solution, however, the only bathroom has active mold growth and is in the worst part of the home. We could possibly temporarily relocate her if a full remediation was going to be performed. Since insurance isn't covering it and she lacks the funds, we need some "creative" solutions to a bad situation. If we could get the plumbing and roofing services donated, we could probably get the remediation done, but the water intrusion issues is what is stalling remediation efforts. Without funding for that aspect, a remediation would be pointless. Thanks, Larkin, Executive Director Mold Relief, Inc. www.moldrelief.org Support Kerry for President: the only candidate addressing indoor air quality: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/index.html?source_code=00013543 -----Original Message-----From: Matt Klein Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:56 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: low cost solutions I was thinking about: 1. getting her a hepa filter (temp. measure) 2. trying to locate social services agencies in TX to address her roofing and plumbing needs, 3. doing the remediation 4. and getting the materials for put back. This is the ideal situation. However, we may need to find other measures that are more realistic and less costly. Does anyone have any ideas? I had a client once who was so pissed off at remediation contractors because of their screwing up her home during a remediation that she refused to leave the home during a second remediation effort--by another contractor even. I designed a plan to isolate her in a part of the home not undergoing remediation, but with access to the bathroom. The bathroom did not require much remediation, but did require cleaning. It was done in less than a shopping trip to the mall. You could do the same by positively pressurizing the occupied area while remediation areas are negatively pressurized. To cover your tail, you should monitor the areas for at least pressure and get a disclaimer signed by the woman. I would also make sure the remediation guys are well-instructed on the situation and instruct the occupant on not entering remediation areas. ******************************************************If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. Onthe other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you.****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBAIndoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.PO Box 7Bethel, OH 45106-0007VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@...*******************************************************Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 , I agree with Jeff Bishop for the most part that a church or school group may take on the project as a fundraising program. This said, when I worked with the federal government and the state of Minnesota after the Red River floods several years ago, we agreed cooperatively (EPA, federal health, state and county health officials, epidemiologists, environmental scientists and experts in microbial remediation), that apparently there was an increase of exposures (injuries and illness) associated with persons who were not worker trained and protected, who were involved with the demolition of contaminated (bacteria and chemical); and mold contaminated properties. Many of these persons were from local churches and schools and even college students who wanted to pitch in and help but who were not trained and provided appropriate PPE. As an environmental assessment body who met every Monday morning, we agreed, having untrained and unprotected who were actively involved with building cleanup and decontamination was a big problem, and more assistance and direction from the government was necessary. Their answer was to freely handout N-95 respirators and supply truckloads of bleach to all of the shopping centers for the public to take. Oh well. If there are limited funds for your project I suggest someone at least provide every person involved with a right to know (written guidelines to EPA's (A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture and Your Home) http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/images/moldguide.pdf; and the University of Minnesota (Managing Water Infiltration into Buildings) http://www.dehs.umn.edu/iaq/flood.html including UNM (Hidden Fungi Found in Buildings) http://www.dehs.umn.edu/iaq/fungus/hidden.html Go to the links section for EPA and UNM web sites and you find additional web site locations having valuable information that may be able to guide you. Moffett -----Original Message-----From: LJBishop Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 1:45 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions , How about running this as a project by a local civic group and see if they want to undertake the construction part with you doing the remediation? Jeff Bishop 3113 Oxmoor Ind. Blvd. Dothan, AL 36303 fax www.CleanCareSeminars.com -----Original Message-----From: Larkin Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 3:08 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions That would be a great solution, however, the only bathroom has active mold growth and is in the worst part of the home. We could possibly temporarily relocate her if a full remediation was going to be performed. Since insurance isn't covering it and she lacks the funds, we need some "creative" solutions to a bad situation. If we could get the plumbing and roofing services donated, we could probably get the remediation done, but the water intrusion issues is what is stalling remediation efforts. Without funding for that aspect, a remediation would be pointless. Thanks, Larkin, Executive Director Mold Relief, Inc. www.moldrelief.org Support Kerry for President: the only candidate addressing indoor air quality: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/index.html?source_code=00013543 -----Original Message-----From: Matt Klein Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:56 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: low cost solutions I was thinking about: 1. getting her a hepa filter (temp. measure) 2. trying to locate social services agencies in TX to address her roofing and plumbing needs, 3. doing the remediation 4. and getting the materials for put back. This is the ideal situation. However, we may need to find other measures that are more realistic and less costly. Does anyone have any ideas? I had a client once who was so pissed off at remediation contractors because of their screwing up her home during a remediation that she refused to leave the home during a second remediation effort--by another contractor even. I designed a plan to isolate her in a part of the home not undergoing remediation, but with access to the bathroom. The bathroom did not require much remediation, but did require cleaning. It was done in less than a shopping trip to the mall. You could do the same by positively pressurizing the occupied area while remediation areas are negatively pressurized. To cover your tail, you should monitor the areas for at least pressure and get a disclaimer signed by the woman. I would also make sure the remediation guys are well-instructed on the situation and instruct the occupant on not entering remediation areas. ******************************************************If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. Onthe other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you.****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBAIndoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.PO Box 7Bethel, OH 45106-0007VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@...*******************************************************Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 's right; I should have said, ". . . with you doing the supervision and remediation." That said, I don't know how communities and individuals would get by without the help of church and civic organization that descend on the scene of natural disasters and assist with the restoration effort. I can only hope that these volunteer workers are getting proper training before jumping in. Our company has published a letter on the basic steps involved in "self-restoration" of flooded structures by occupants and volunteers. It's been used in communities throughout the U.S. that have been subject to natural flooding. As a bonus, we typically get called by home and business owners for the final cleaning and disinfecting of salvable surfaces before drying and reconstruction takes place. And yes, we charge for that when it's requested. Jeff Bishop 3113 Oxmoor Ind. Blvd. Dothan, AL 36303 fax www.CleanCareSeminars.com -----Original Message-----From: Moffett Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 3:06 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions , I agree with Jeff Bishop for the most part that a church or school group may take on the project as a fundraising program. This said, when I worked with the federal government and the state of Minnesota after the Red River floods several years ago, we agreed cooperatively (EPA, federal health, state and county health officials, epidemiologists, environmental scientists and experts in microbial remediation), that apparently there was an increase of exposures (injuries and illness) associated with persons who were not worker trained and protected, who were involved with the demolition of contaminated (bacteria and chemical); and mold contaminated properties. Many of these persons were from local churches and schools and even college students who wanted to pitch in and help but who were not trained and provided appropriate PPE. As an environmental assessment body who met every Monday morning, we agreed, having untrained and unprotected who were actively involved with building cleanup and decontamination was a big problem, and more assistance and direction from the government was necessary. Their answer was to freely handout N-95 respirators and supply truckloads of bleach to all of the shopping centers for the public to take. Oh well. If there are limited funds for your project I suggest someone at least provide every person involved with a right to know (written guidelines to EPA's (A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture and Your Home) http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/images/moldguide.pdf; and the University of Minnesota (Managing Water Infiltration into Buildings) http://www.dehs.umn.edu/iaq/flood.html including UNM (Hidden Fungi Found in Buildings) http://www.dehs.umn.edu/iaq/fungus/hidden.html Go to the links section for EPA and UNM web sites and you find additional web site locations having valuable information that may be able to guide you. Moffett -----Original Message-----From: LJBishop Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 1:45 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions , How about running this as a project by a local civic group and see if they want to undertake the construction part with you doing the remediation? Jeff Bishop 3113 Oxmoor Ind. Blvd. Dothan, AL 36303 fax www.CleanCareSeminars.com -----Original Message-----From: Larkin Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 3:08 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions That would be a great solution, however, the only bathroom has active mold growth and is in the worst part of the home. We could possibly temporarily relocate her if a full remediation was going to be performed. Since insurance isn't covering it and she lacks the funds, we need some "creative" solutions to a bad situation. If we could get the plumbing and roofing services donated, we could probably get the remediation done, but the water intrusion issues is what is stalling remediation efforts. Without funding for that aspect, a remediation would be pointless. Thanks, Larkin, Executive Director Mold Relief, Inc. www.moldrelief.org Support Kerry for President: the only candidate addressing indoor air quality: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/index.html?source_code=00013543 -----Original Message-----From: Matt Klein Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:56 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: low cost solutions I was thinking about: 1. getting her a hepa filter (temp. measure) 2. trying to locate social services agencies in TX to address her roofing and plumbing needs, 3. doing the remediation 4. and getting the materials for put back. This is the ideal situation. However, we may need to find other measures that are more realistic and less costly. Does anyone have any ideas? I had a client once who was so pissed off at remediation contractors because of their screwing up her home during a remediation that she refused to leave the home during a second remediation effort--by another contractor even. I designed a plan to isolate her in a part of the home not undergoing remediation, but with access to the bathroom. The bathroom did not require much remediation, but did require cleaning. It was done in less than a shopping trip to the mall. You could do the same by positively pressurizing the occupied area while remediation areas are negatively pressurized. To cover your tail, you should monitor the areas for at least pressure and get a disclaimer signed by the woman. I would also make sure the remediation guys are well-instructed on the situation and instruct the occupant on not entering remediation areas. ******************************************************If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. Onthe other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you.****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBAIndoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.PO Box 7Bethel, OH 45106-0007VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@...*******************************************************Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 That is an excellent idea! And one we have thought about. Does anyone know any groups down in TX that even do projects to help elderly or low income families renovate homes? Larkin, Executive Director Mold Relief, Inc. www.moldrelief.org Support Kerry for President: the only candidate addressing indoor air quality: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/index.html?source_code=00013543 -----Original Message-----From: LJBishop Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 3:45 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions , How about running this as a project by a local civic group and see if they want to undertake the construction part with you doing the remediation? Jeff Bishop 3113 Oxmoor Ind. Blvd. Dothan, AL 36303 fax www.CleanCareSeminars.com -----Original Message-----From: Larkin Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 3:08 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: low cost solutions That would be a great solution, however, the only bathroom has active mold growth and is in the worst part of the home. We could possibly temporarily relocate her if a full remediation was going to be performed. Since insurance isn't covering it and she lacks the funds, we need some "creative" solutions to a bad situation. If we could get the plumbing and roofing services donated, we could probably get the remediation done, but the water intrusion issues is what is stalling remediation efforts. Without funding for that aspect, a remediation would be pointless. Thanks, Larkin, Executive Director Mold Relief, Inc. www.moldrelief.org Support Kerry for President: the only candidate addressing indoor air quality: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/index.html?source_code=00013543 -----Original Message-----From: Matt Klein Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:56 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: low cost solutions I was thinking about: 1. getting her a hepa filter (temp. measure) 2. trying to locate social services agencies in TX to address her roofing and plumbing needs, 3. doing the remediation 4. and getting the materials for put back. This is the ideal situation. However, we may need to find other measures that are more realistic and less costly. Does anyone have any ideas? I had a client once who was so pissed off at remediation contractors because of their screwing up her home during a remediation that she refused to leave the home during a second remediation effort--by another contractor even. I designed a plan to isolate her in a part of the home not undergoing remediation, but with access to the bathroom. The bathroom did not require much remediation, but did require cleaning. It was done in less than a shopping trip to the mall. You could do the same by positively pressurizing the occupied area while remediation areas are negatively pressurized. To cover your tail, you should monitor the areas for at least pressure and get a disclaimer signed by the woman. I would also make sure the remediation guys are well-instructed on the situation and instruct the occupant on not entering remediation areas. ******************************************************If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. Onthe other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you.****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBAIndoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.PO Box 7Bethel, OH 45106-0007VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@...*******************************************************Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 That is an excellent idea! And one we have thought about. Does anyone know any groups down in TX that even do projects to help elderly or low income families renovate homes? Isn't this sort of thing what Mold Across American purports to do--helping those who need it for remedying a mold problem? I have seen calls for volunteers to help a certain person either in an e-mail or on their website (I can't remember). Their website is http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/. Maybe those guys have some ideas. ************************************************************ K. Klein, PE ME, MBA Indoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc. PO Box 7 Bethel, OH 45106-0007 VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@... ************************************************************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 , I am very intrigued by your post. The info is tantalizing and deserves discussion and perhaps some illumination. If I may, I have a few questions: Has this 'disability' actually been established and documented? How much 'breach' actually occurred? How did only Stachy cause the problem? Rarely does it's actual airborne concentrations remotely approach that of other more easily aerosolized genus. And, if only such a small colony, why was it so difficult to control the clean up? It seems a simple HEPA vacuuming over the area before undertaking any other removal attempt would have removed the vast majority of the loose particles. Then a little control like a layer of plastic and duct tape, simply washing it, or other physical removal. Finally, how long could this small exposure have been? Again, such a small area of contamination - it seems difficult to expose a group of occupants for a period long enough or a concentration great enough to cause permanent health problems (i.e., " on disability " ). Do you or can you explain? Thank you. Armour Armour Applied Science, LLC Cleveland OH > My personal opinion based on my own experience from years of dealing > with this; > If the mold is Stachy, the risks of attempting isolation and > containment while keeping the inhabitants in situ so far outweigh the > benefits that it isn't worth doing. > But if you do, it would be a very good thing to have an evacuation > plan in place. > I realize that people are driven to the very brink of desperation and > survival and may have exhausted their funds by expensive but > unproductive doctor visits. Still. A person who is suffering > already can so easily have severe exacerbation of illness by the > slightest breach of containment that " if it were me, I'd get them > out. " > Teachers at North Tahoe High school wound up on disability from a > colony " about the size of a grapefruit " . > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > I would propose is working with RV manufacturers to > design a special MCS friendly trailer which can be easily > decontaminated and providing this as a " safe zone " while you work. > > the StachySterian , very interesting, you should have marketed these in TX during 2002-2003...woulda made a killin'! But, it's actually an idea whose time's arrived. Gonna patent it? , the StachyCynic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 The teachers are certainly on disability, but proving " Stachy did it " is not currently feasible and waits for the science to catch up. The teachers who were adjacent to the colony are satisfied that it is the driving force in their illness because the two who inhabited the area closest to the colony are the sickest ones, their illness progressed simultaneously, and they can see no other apparent cause for their plight. Other teachers in that school consider them to be opportunists living the " life of luxury " on their lavish disability remuneration. Since this scenario happened to me, I know exactly how it feels and sympathize completely. Especially about being disbelieved. This type of illness has now become so prevalent that there is no longer any requirement for validation from a physician that such " mold illness " is possible - the sufferers know it well despite the contradictions of doctors. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 & , Sorry guys. I hate to rain on your invention-and-dot.com-style parade, but this is an old idea that has been practiced for 30 years or so by highly impacted individuals (not just mold!) They discovered that they didn't have to wait for definitive science to improve their health and well-being. The more adventuresome acted on their own and " discovered " what we now call some of the better practices today. Examples include formaldehyde-free building materials, clean & dry interiors, solvent- free adhesives, fragrance-free detergents and other cleaners. They also know the best RV for your idea is the Airstream. Gut it and make it safe for themeselves and move to an area of the country they are less reactive. With the exposures - whatever they are - stopped, they then wait while their body takes care of itself and heals. With regained health and strength, they are able to move back into the modern environment most consider as " natural. " Extreme? Absolutely! But necessary for some people. Are they " crazy? " Only if they continue the old behaviors but keep expecting new results. Sometimes the sign of sanity is extreme measures for extreme situations. And often they are ahead of the rest of us. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ------------ > > I would propose is working with RV manufacturers to > design > a special MCS friendly trailer which can be easily > decontaminated > and providing this as a " safe zone " while you work. > > the > StachySterian > > > , very interesting, you should have marketed these in TX during > 2002-2003...woulda made a killin'! But, it's actually an idea whose > time's arrived. Gonna patent it? > > , the StachyCynic. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Carl, you should know from my stories on Sickbuildings that I was one of those MCSers in the desert. And I was forced to " Discover " it for myself because virtually every one of the hundreds of doctors I fought with told me that everything I complained about was impossible. I " discovered " this without their help and in total defiance and contradiction of everyone around me. Including many of the most prominent physicians in the world. I was forced to find this out for myself as have so many others and only made contact after I insisted upon starting a course of action and was already recovering. And I found out that some of the people who rebuild Airstreams have terrible problems with mold growth on wood proximal to the aluminum sheathing. Most people can't afford an Airstream anyway. Especially a MCS modified one. I've seen enough evidence of people having increased reactivity to areas that were aggressively remediated to know that you definitely will have problems with people complaining of aggravated reactivity after even small jobs. Experience and stories from others in my situation tells me for certain that many motels are not safe for sensitized individuals. While the initial cost of designing purpose build recreational vehicles as rentable escape modules seems prohibitive and extremist now, I believe that time and circumstances will force others to this conclusion. It is good to have a " plan B " . One thing I was forced to find out for myself and is a concept I've been forced to defend ever since - is that I could resolve my MCS without any effort at avoiding the chemicals that used to knock me flat. Extreme mycotoxin avoidance alone resolved my MCS. I am aware that no one will believe this and I've always been amazed how quickly people complaining of the same symptoms and clues that led me to this conclusion will reject any comparison of our situation. fortunately for me, this is now " Their problem and not mine " . Most people have seen fit to reject the concepts I've presented though some who remember my predictions of the impending mold epidemic are starting to ask me " How did you know? " Simple. Been there - Done it. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Just wanted to give a brief update to the elderly woman in TX: a group in TX has arranged for her to stay in their "home" while repairs are being made and she has agreed. We have someone to help with the plumbing costs, still working on the roofing issues. Once we get the water intrusion problems fixed, remediation can begin. I'll keep everyone posted! Thanks for all the advise and support! -----Original Message-----From: erik_johnson_96140 Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 4:51 PMTo: iequality Subject: Re: low cost solutionsCarl, you should know from my stories on Sickbuildings that I was one of those MCSers in the desert.And I was forced to "Discover" it for myself because virtually every one of the hundreds of doctors I fought with told me that everything I complained about was impossible.I "discovered" this without their help and in total defiance and contradiction of everyone around me. Including many of the most prominent physicians in the world. I was forced to find this out for myself as have so many others and only made contact after I insisted upon starting a course of action and was already recovering.And I found out that some of the people who rebuild Airstreams have terrible problems with mold growth on wood proximal to the aluminum sheathing.Most people can't afford an Airstream anyway. Especially a MCS modified one.I've seen enough evidence of people having increased reactivity to areas that were aggressively remediated to know that you definitely will have problems with people complaining of aggravated reactivity after even small jobs.Experience and stories from others in my situation tells me for certain that many motels are not safe for sensitized individuals.While the initial cost of designing purpose build recreational vehicles as rentable escape modules seems prohibitive and extremist now, I believe that time and circumstances will force others to this conclusion.It is good to have a "plan B".One thing I was forced to find out for myself and is a concept I've been forced to defend ever since - is that I could resolve my MCS without any effort at avoiding the chemicals that used to knock me flat.Extreme mycotoxin avoidance alone resolved my MCS.I am aware that no one will believe this and I've always been amazed how quickly people complaining of the same symptoms and clues that led me to this conclusion will reject any comparison of our situation.fortunately for me, this is now "Their problem and not mine".Most people have seen fit to reject the concepts I've presented though some who remember my predictions of the impending mold epidemic are starting to ask me "How did you know?"Simple. Been there - Done it.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 At 10:57 PM 4/19/2004, you wrote: The teachers are certainly on disability, but proving " Stachy did it " is not currently feasible and waits for the science to catch up. The teachers who were adjacent to the colony are satisfied that it is the driving force in their illness because the two who inhabited the area closest to the colony are the sickest ones, their illness progressed simultaneously, and they can see no other apparent cause for their plight. And I still remain unconvinced. To prove illness due to an exposure, the illness has to manifest in some measurable change in some physiological parameter that is directly linked to some property or chemical. Disability is a permanent change in that parameter. Proximity to mold is only an indirect relationship to possible dose, but is not an absolute substitution of dose. So many factors could affect dose that assessing them all would be almost impossible, especially after the fact. Without being able to assess dose or to measure the change in a physiological parameter caused by a dosage of some undetermined chemical, I see no way that science will catch up. In the end, I am left wondering whether the disability is the result of a poor lawyer or legal settlement rather than actual permanent disability due to mold exposure. This type of illness has now become so prevalent that there is no longer any requirement for validation from a physician that such " mold illness " is possible - the sufferers know it well despite the contradictions of doctors. In what country is this statement true? I know of no court that would not require that damage due to mold exposure not be proven. That is one of the basic elements of a negligence lawsuit. I base that statement on my experience as an expert legal consultant. Whether the sufferers believe their illness is due to mold exposure or not still must be proven in court. To date, the research is very vague on a direct relationship between mold respiratory dosage and illness other than allergy and asthma. Even with these illnesses, the dosage needed to elicit symptoms is so debatable that none have been established that are universally acceptable. Given the variability in symptoms versus types of mold antigen and concentrations, the science is far from universally acceptable criteria. ****************************************************** If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim it. On the other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but myself. Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you. ****************************************************** K. Klein, PE ME, MBA Indoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc. PO Box 7 Bethel, OH 45106-0007 VOICE: FAX: E-mail: mkklein68@... ******************************************************* Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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